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The many flavors of Princess, Daisy and Peach Differences.

~ Valkyrie ~

~ Mightier than a 2020 ~
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Calling it right now, Daisy's going to have the Carrot from Super Mario Land as her Down-B...

If there's anything that Daisy can still claim, then why not the carrot?

Dark Pit has the Electroshock, so why not? If Sakurai's team have been going with the effort to make Daisy's animations stand out from Peach, then why not just HD model a carrot, and replace the turnips? It would represent her debut game, and it would be an item that NONE of the other Mario characters use in their movesets! Win-win in my opinion! ~ Afro
The Bunny Carrot's from Super Mario Land 2 (Wario's debut no less) but aside from that, I do wonder what'd be the different attributes.
 

Luminario

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Your guess is as good as mine
So few things to note I saw in the direct.
Daisy pulls out turnips :( carrots were a missed opportunity but what can ya do.
Toad turns around if hit on the back during the counter. I was afraid it was locked into one direction like Melee.
Everything is so flowy. A welcome change from the rigidity of Smash 4 hair and dress physics for Peach.
 

Luminario

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Your guess is as good as mine

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Erimir

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Who could have guessed the way to shut people up about their misplaced clone hatred was to just, give clones a name.
I don't think giving clones a name made the difference. I think the differences are:
  1. Most importantly, the roster is so massive that most of the important characters for series are already covered. This isn't Melee where due to the quick dev time, it turns out almost half of the new characters are clones and there were so many characters like Wario, Diddy, Dedede and Sonic that were left out. All of the series with >10m in sales have multiple fighters covering either the clear 3+ most important characters (Mario, Zelda, DK, Metroid, Star Fox), or in series with large/rotating casts, multiple popular characters (Pokemon, FE), with only a few exceptions:
    • Animal Crossing and Splatoon were only recently added, and who knows we might yet see Isabelle (Vergeben says we will) or Octolings... And tbf Splatoon doesn't have a lot of non-Inkling character potential anyway... and Octolings use the same moves in Splatoon in the first place.
    • series with no plausible second rep (Game & Watch, Wii Fit, Duck Hunt)
    • I'd include Mii as not having a plausible second rep, but also note that they have three movesets anyway
    • DK was an exception until K Rool was revealed
  2. The Echoes revealed so far make a lot of sense as clones. Falcondorf gave clones a bad name, because Ganondorf never made sense as a Falcon clone. While Daisy, Lucina and Dark Samus, etc. have potential to be more unique, they really do share a lot with their source characters.
  3. People still prefer unique characters, so I think FE and especially Zelda fans wish they wouldn't just get their fourth Marth or third Link (not just Link moveset clones, but literally different versions of Link...)
It's mostly a matter of understanding that there's not a lot of room to add more characters unless they're Echoes and not a lot of important series that are lacking major characters while being large enough that they are felt to really need additional reps.
 

SSBBDaisy

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I'm not a hundred percent certain on this one but it looks like peaches fair has a different animation than Daisy's fair
 

staindgrey

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Turnips and Daisies.

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Hi guys!

I found something interesting relating to how clone characters are balanced in Smash 4 and supposedly this game.



Basically, clone characters start now from copying the stats of the base fighter and adjusting from there. This reduces balancing time because they don’t have to start from scratch. They keep basic stuff like walk/run speed and jump height and general knockback power the same so that they don’t get too unbalanced.

I guess since it didn’t work for Dr Mario this time, they are starting from scratch.

As for Daisy’s differences, she’s a crown height shorter, her side B has greatly reduced startup in the air and her forward air’s range seems nerfed.

Personally, I think they went in and adjusted float’s properties, and now they are balancing Daisy’s moves based on that change.
 
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Turnips and Daisies.

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Well, the thing with Doc is that his Smash 4 version is how he was intended to be in Melee (as in, slower, but stronger). Also, they cheated a bit by using passive equipment.
Yeah, but he was kinda...bad in comparison to Mario. I guess they aren’t cheating anymore and giving him proper stat changes this time.
 

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Yeah, but he was kinda...bad in comparison to Mario. I guess they aren’t cheating anymore and giving him proper stat changes this time.
There's no denying that.The most unique of the clones, yet at the same time, the worst due to being different...

Given he's not an Echo Fighter, both thanks to seniority and his new animations (Super Sheet), as well as his unique attacks (Down Air, Megavitamins, Dr. Tornado), along with the different properties his other moves have, we can only hope.
 
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Turnips and Daisies.

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There's no denying that.The most unique of the clones, yet at the same time, the worst due to being different...

Given he's not an Echo Fighter, both thanks to seniority and his new animations (Super Sheet), as well as his unique attacks (Down Air, Megavitamins, Dr. Tornado), along with the different properties his other moves have, we can only hope.
He’s actually not an echo fighter because of his speed and basic attributes being so drastically different from Mario. You can’t really balance him like Mario anymore.

Meanwhile for someone like Daisy, she’s largely the same as Peach in these basic attributes, and she will be adjusted relative to Peach.
 
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Ark of Silence101

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I just found out that Daisy having faster start up on her side b is an actual difference, when Sakurai mentions that 8 player battles come back in the E3 reveal, there is footage shown of Peach using her side b in Palutena's Temple and it's appears to be the same as Smash 4, whereas Daisy's definitely faster.
 

Turnips and Daisies.

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I just found out that Daisy having faster start up on her side b is an actual difference, when Sakurai mentions that 8 player battles come back in the E3 reveal, there is footage shown of Peach using her side b in Palutena's Temple and it's appears to be the same as Smash 4, whereas Daisy's definitely faster.
Probs. That was Peach’s grounded side B. Her aerial side B is actually a lot slower than that.

My theory is that they did that tweak and the forward air tweak because they are messing with Daisy’s float properties. Sakurai saying they make ability adjustments where needed also strengthens this because that’s probably the best way to differentiate the two princesses and stay true to their personalites and character traits in Super Mario.

The accurate height difference also makes me think they are paying close attention to Daisy in Super Mario.
 
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Turnips and Daisies.

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Apparently Daisy plucks turnips faster than Peach does. Does she pluck turnips faster than Smash 4 Peach too?

Could be a SMB2 reference where characters have different turnip pluck speeds.
 
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Darklink401

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If she did have a faster turnip pull and side B, it seems like she'd be the first Echo to have different frame data no? Tho Dark Pit did have different damage on his ftilt and side B, so it could be... that they are open to changing frame data...

Her changes seem more subtle if anything.
 

Guybrush20X6

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I wonder if they'll cover the differences in a segment in the direct.
 

GunBlaze

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SO

with Ken's announcement, it is confirmed echoes can have altered attributes. Ken is specifically noted (and demonstrated) to walk faster than Ryu.

Take that as you will.
 

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In the treehouse they talked about how Daisy falls faster than Peach and is faster in general.

Dang she might be straight up better
 

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Why do I feel like watching the treehouse video, Daisy moves slower LOL

They have to give Peach some sort of tradeoff, as it seems silly to make one straight-up better than the other.
 

ffdgh

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In the treehouse they talked about how Daisy falls faster than Peach and is faster in general.

Dang she might be straight up better
Peach had pretty decent speed in 4 already and that looks to be the same in Ultimate(imo). Wouldn't be mad at Daisy is faster if it means Peach gets added range on her attacks like forward aerial seemingly has now lol.
 
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Slip33

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Honestly Daisy being faster than Peach doesn't surprise me, because Sega made the Mario & Sonic at the Olympics, and Daisy was a speed character in some. Daisy being overall better than Peach is no surprise as well. Because in the Mario games where they differ in stats Peach is more often inferior between the two. Daisy overall gets more useful/better stats.
 
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Carrill

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Daisy definitely looks like a faster faller than Peach. That has its pros and cons though. Being floaty allows Peach to escape a lot of combos. And Daisy might have a faster run speed than Peach too but I'm certain it comes with some trade-offs.
 
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I have asked some Spanish players, who are the only players who has access to the demo version at an event, about Daisy/Peach differences but they haven't found much so far. So far one player told me "they feel like true clones"... If Daisy is faster it's probably not by much.
 

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I have asked some Spanish players, who are the only players who has access to the demo version at an event, about Daisy/Peach differences but they haven't found much so far. So far one player told me "they feel like true clones"... If Daisy is faster it's probably not by much.
Uuuuuuuuuuuuugggggggghhhhh.

I'm really trying to get a handle on Peach in Smash 4 for preparation. I'm just extremely bad at this whole float thing.

Why couldn't Daisy be a clone of, like, Captain Falcon or something.
 

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Looks like the improved training mode is gonna be our friend.

One month (and half a World of Light playthrough) to go...
 

maxistrife

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Up Air still hits twice, same as Peach. This can be seen in her trailer on the Smash Bros website.

So far, I'm a little unimpressed with how Daisy is turning out. I love Daisy, and all, and I'm going to main her, but they're really driving home the fact that an Echo Character is almost verbatim the base character by giving the term "clone" a canon name. I'm hoping Sakurai will take away that Echo status and flesh her out like she deserves to be, but with only 6 months left till launch... Maybe next game, considering she doesn't get cut?

One thing I've noticed, also: Daisy barely appears anywhere. She's been, so far, in her own reveal trailer, the perfect shielding demonstration, the Great Plateau Tower reveal snippet, and her trailer on the Smash Website (a combined total of maybe 40 seconds of footage, some parts even the same combo on different stages: Side Special to ___ to Up Smash to Up B).
Even other, less popular characters like Pac-Man, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer, etc., show up more than that, be it in other characters' trailers (getting combo'd, Final Smash'd, etc., just to show off some moves on various opponents), stage reveals (just hangin' around, no matter if they necessarily "fit" the stage), so on. You'd expect her to be AT LEAST in Luigi's little trailer, for obvious reasons, but... Nothing. Pit is in Dark Pit's trailer, Marth is in Lucina's, but with Peach in Daisy's trailer... She's just not there, no move comparison, no "Hey, look at her Echo standing by her!" but Peach is in one of Daisy's images, showing off a white dress. Any other Mario character trailers, like Peach? Nope, nowhere to be seen. Inklings and even Ridley (the character they kept the most secret, so it'd make sense why he's barely seen) seem to show up wherever you look. They were in the E3 version, for example, but the 3rd new character? Crickets. Wait till December.

However conspiracy theorist-y it sounds, I really hope there's a reason behind that. Peach has been shown plenty all across the board, but Daisy (a new character, for crying out loud!) is just gone, aside from her regular 2 trailers and 2 very hard-to-see, almost insignificant demonstrations (one is just rolling, and in the other, the Great Plateau demonstration, she actually leaves once the camera cuts to another dramatic shot of the tower. Everyone else remains, but she's not there anymore, implying the shot with her was added in post once she was included as an Echo).
I'm assuming it's just an oversight, because it's kinda stupid to even think they'd do much more with her, but maybe that hints that she's still heavily in development. Perhaps even being added as an Echo Fighter was a last-minute addition. Overall, her entire inclusion just seems rushed. Her taunts and entrance animation are the only differences that we've seen, as if Sakurai thought her up the day before E3, put a Daisy trophy model over Peach, and mocapped 3 animations for the next day. I can only dream, but y'know. She's much more than a Peach clone, in my eyes. If Sakurai bamboozled us by just skinning Daisy over Peach, and Daisy is actually a new, fully fleshed-out character, I'll probably have an aneurysm right then and there. There'll be nothing left of my brain.
Also, considering Daisy has existed almost as long as Peach, I am surprised it took them this long to put her in smash, when we have like 4 freaking FE characters who play almost identically themselves. Clones have been a thing after all since melee...

Also also, out of all the clones on the roster, this pair, Paisy, seems to be the MOST clone-ish. Their moves, from what I can tell, are SUPER similar, and while other clones do that too, every other clone set has one of them being faster or changes the animations (more significantly than turning hearts to flowers). To be absolutely fair though, I have not paid too much attention to Daisy (or seen much of her) to know. Maybe her moves are tweaked in speed or power compared to Peach.
 

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Also, considering Daisy has existed almost as long as Peach, I am surprised it took them this long to put her in smash, when we have like 4 freaking FE characters who play almost identically themselves. Clones have been a thing after all since melee...

Also also, out of all the clones on the roster, this pair, Paisy, seems to be the MOST clone-ish. Their moves, from what I can tell, are SUPER similar, and while other clones do that too, every other clone set has one of them being faster or changes the animations (more significantly than turning hearts to flowers). To be absolutely fair though, I have not paid too much attention to Daisy (or seen much of her) to know. Maybe her moves are tweaked in speed or power compared to Peach.
I think that may go to Richter who has less unique animations from his parent (more litteral in his case) even if Daisy's are mostly aesthetic.

'sides can Peach do this?

Didn't think so.
 

maxistrife

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I think that may go to Richter who has less unique animations from his parent (more litteral in his case) even if Daisy's are mostly aesthetic.

'sides can Peach do this?

Didn't think so.
I LOVE that XD As far as Richter though, he is faster than Simon, whereas Simon is heavier/stronger. I would have liked to see a similar difference in these 2, but as I prefer speed over power, I would have been sad if Daisy was faster, as I am more a Peach fan =P
 

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Well the game broke it's street date and people have started uploading music.

Just a matter of time until they look into the moveset data and we get to see what the differences are.

Though at this point I'm thinking the difference is a +20% sass modifier.
 

SSBBDaisy

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Daisy's fair doesn't have the magic, so it's range is lessened.
Idk why im so triggered by this reply but Daisy's fair is magical peach just has a bigger crown. I love both Daisy and Peach and both are magical af lol.
 
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Kierdar

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Idk why im so triggered by this reply but Daisy's fair is magical peach just has a bigger crown. I love both Daisy and Peach and both are magical af lol.
Thanks, I knew Daisy had magic so I thought it was strange her hitbox was smaller.
 

Teeb147

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I'm not sure there is a difference in range, daisy's seems pretty good. But I'm sure it balances out somehow :)
(like say she's a tad faster. something im still not sure about)

I wonder if there's a list of new data now that people have had the game.
 

Teeb147

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Reading the paisy dichord they have done a lot of testing and can't find any differences.

Essentially the difference is that peach is a little taller
That can't be totally right.. Sakurai gave the reason that Isabelle was taller than villager as a reason she couldnt be an echo.

I would still think there's differences, and that they havent been found. But thanks for the take from the discord. Well, I wonder what's the deal :O
 
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