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The Lucas General Discussion

FightAdamantEevee

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To get a nice glide from the Magnet Pull, you need good momentum in the opposite direction that your PK Fire shoots toward. So let's say you're jumping/falling and holding to the left, you want to shoot your PK Fire to the right so it adds to the momentum that you already had, thus giving the Magnet greater horizontal airspeed.

In practice mode try just jumping off Battlefield's platform and use PK Fire without holding a direction beforehand for momentum, and notice that the Magnet's distance is very limited. Then try it while holding a direction for momentum and shooting a PK Fire in the opposite direction and notice the difference in Magnet Pull distance.

If that confused you at all just let me know and I'll try to reword it. d:

EDIT: One more thing: if you Bstick or Cbounce a PK Fire (hold one direction in the air on the control stick while Bsticking a PK Fire in the other direction), it will also give you maximum momentum for Magnet Pulling.
 

Jimmy?

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That's what I've been doing, but I guess I just don't do it quick enough to get all the momentum? iono, I"m trying it now and I seem to be getting a bit more distance than normal, so I guess something's working differently.

I don't b-stick, though, that's just really awkward for me. D: Tried it for a while since I heard it made a lot of Lucas ATs much easier, but I didn't like it...
 

Jamwa

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What i do is run in one direction, jump, then as i double jump i pk fire in the opposite direction to get a nice momentum. c-bounce/b-stick isnt necessary i dont think

hey FAE, you know that awesome trick where you pk fire someone on the ledge, magnet pull, zap jump then reverse magnet pull? does that require b-sticking?
 

FightAdamantEevee

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That's what I've been doing, but I guess I just don't do it quick enough to get all the momentum? iono, I"m trying it now and I seem to be getting a bit more distance than normal, so I guess something's working differently.

I don't b-stick, though, that's just really awkward for me. D: Tried it for a while since I heard it made a lot of Lucas ATs much easier, but I didn't like it...
Well to get the momentum for a good glide, you have to hold on the control stick in the opposite direction of where you PK Fire gets shot, and to time it right you have to wait roughly a second after Lucas yells "Fire!".

What i do is run in one direction, jump, then as i double jump i pk fire in the opposite direction to get a nice momentum. c-bounce/b-stick isnt necessary i dont think

hey FAE, you know that awesome trick where you pk fire someone on the ledge, magnet pull, zap jump then reverse magnet pull? does that require b-sticking?
Well you need to either Bstick or Cbounce to do it. You need to create the reverse momentum somehow when you run off the ledge and PK Fire. This is accomplished by utilizing Bstick or Cbounce mechanics. Then you have to reverse the Magnet. I never use Bstick/Cbounce for Magnets in the Magnet Pull anyway, I just use the control stick to change the directions of the Magnet Pull. You don't need to Bstick or Cbounce to Zap Jump afterwards, but using Bstick or Cbounce will give you more momentum in your Zap Jump from your current position under the stage so you can gain more distance in your Magnet Pull to allow you to make it back to the stage or ledge.
 

Lukingordex

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I wonder if is possible to do all this stuff with the Wii Remote...
 

FightAdamantEevee

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Well Magnet Pulling is definately performable on the Wiimote, Cbouncing and Bsticking aren't. You need a 4-directional control for movement and a 4-directional control for smashes/aerials to Cbounce, and you need a Cstick to Bstick.
 

Strawhat64

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So listen lil kids. Don't get grab by falco or is a free grab release up smash.
And lost to a snake...
Hmmm...last time I take a nap.
 

Luco

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Anyway, played more wifi today with a friend. One on one is a lot easier to get used to, but recovering with PKT2 is, like, absurdly difficult on wifi. :C

I think I'll try going to the AiB ladder sometime soon. Even if I can't get too used to wifi, I can at least get practice trying to read and stuff. I really only know one person's habits since I only play one person regularly, so anything helps, I suppose.
Haha, yeah I envy you, i'm a bit too nervous to get in a heated debate about anything such as match-ups, I don't think I know enough about them really haha!

But keep going, there's been a nice little uprising of lucases since when I first came on so it's nice. A lot of aussies too, which makes me smile. I'm looking forward to meeting those people at Sydney Smash sometime. I'm nowhere near great, but i'll do my best!

Btw guys did you end up seeing those tourny videos? I'd really love to see what you think. :)
 

Jimmy?

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Nah, bro, Australia can't have valid opinions.

/rant about smashracism.

Some of these people, man.... they're just so concerned with the size of their smashpeens, as though being from a powerful region makes you any good just because of proximity. :/

I have not seen those tourney videos. I should start watching some of the videos on these boards, I should be a better Lucas main and actually spend time here. .-.

I'm still kind of sad that I didn't get any replays done before I left school, I have no capture device of my own, so I'll have to wait until August when I go back up state to do anything.... I mean, I guess I could try going to tournaments (there's an active enough scene in San Diego, so it's not like I'll have to do serious traveling), but I'm sort of apprehensive about going to a tournament by myself... it's not really my idea of fun to jump into a den of strangers. :<
 

Luco

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It's alright, you get used to that after the first time. granted, I went to my first tourny with my older brother (he also mains Lucas), but still. That first tournament has fogged up in my mind to this dreamy haziness of amazingness.... It was pretty awesome. :)
 

Jamwa

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Hmmmm Luco against Pit you dont really want to lose the lead, because if you have % lead you can just absorb and wait for him to approach you, this takes away Pits defensive advantage if you know what I mean, because once hes in mid range you can PkFire and absorb without being punished.
Also instead of fsmashing so much use dair or pivot grab more! Also try mixing up your Jabs, so do something like Jab>Jab>Ftilt or Jab>Jab>Dtilt>nair/fsmash.
and you gotta stop DI'ing into his arrows lol.
Dont recover too close to the stage either, he can reflect ur body/PKT or use Up-B to push your body away and stuff up ur recovery.
In terms of approaching, you dont really want to, just Pk fire and absorb until he comes, or do some safe dairs/ nair behind him so he cant shield grab.
if he jumps, his fair beats urs so just pk fire.
Also never air dodge when landing back on the stage, just air dodge towards the ledge and cancel it with a tether grab!
this is what ive gathered from versing Jei (a really good and technical Pit, who knows like all the AT's -_-) so im not sure if im right but hey i make these mistakes too so this is more what i think i would do (if i was playing 100%) so its probably not the best :D
this is with lucas btw, i dont really know the match-up with ness
 

FightAdamantEevee

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I haven't seen the matches yet but if you need jab mixups here are some:
Jab 1 --> Walk back --> PK Fire
Jab 1 --> Jab 2 --> SH Back + PK Fire
Jab 1 --> Jab 2 --> Jab 3
Jab 1 --> Ftilt
Jab 1 --> Jab 2 --> Ftilt
Jab 1 --> Jab 2 --> Nair
Jab 1 --> Jab 2 --> Dtilt (One dtilt or two depending on their distance away from you. The tip of Lucas's foot is most likely to trip so it'll give you a better chance of following up with an Fsmash/Nair/Dair/Ftilt/etc. As long as they don't shield the dtilt of course)
Or if they're already kinda far from you or SDI'd Jab 1: Jab 1 --> Dtilt --> (if trips) Fsmash/Nair/Dair/Ftilt/etc.
Jab 1 --> Shieldgrab
Jab 1 --> Jab 2 --> Shieldgrab
Jab 1 --> Jab 2 --> Jab 3
Jab 1 --> Jab 2 --> Walk back and short hop with the backwards momentum --> B-Reversed PSI Magnet to hit the opponent or their shield
On Smashville: Jab 1 --> Jab 2 --> Jump and Platform drop (not sure what it's called, Shield + Down instead of platform cancelling) --> Fastfall Uair
Jab 1 --> Jab 2 --> Walk away

These are just a few mixups you can incorporate into your gameplay. Obviously these aren't going to work 100% of the time but remember: most people are inclined to hold shield or SDI away after you hit them with Jab 2, making your walking back followups generally safe (as in you usually won't take damage, your followups don't always hit them though.) After Jab 1 people are more inclined to attack or get their SDI ready for Jab 2, plus they're closer to you after just Jab 1 so you have to make sure your spacing and timing is perfect or you'll get punished.



Unless the character you're fighting is named Marth, his UpB interrupts just about any delayed Jab input. So it'd safest to just use the full Jab combo and hope he doesn't SDI quick enough to use his UpB.



So yeah, just work on doing different stuff. Be creative and innovative. Lucas isn't that bad of a character when you know all of his options and mixups, plus it makes it harder for the opponent to read you and adapt to what you're doing. Same with mixing up your recovery and ledge game. Lucas has a plethora of options on the ledge that not many Lucas mains even know about apparently. Lucas just has a LOT of options in different places, and it takes a while to learn and get used to them all. It just takes time and practice.
 

FightAdamantEevee

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Learn how to control bananas and learn the ways Lucas can utilize them just as much as the Diddy user has learned how to utilize bananas for Diddy. Think of the match as a performance and bananas as a prop that you have to use in the performance. You can't let the prop own you, you have to own the prop. You'll be slowed down a lot if you're not in the know as far as banana control. If you don't feel comfortable using bananas, you could always through them offstage and get rid of them every opportunity you get. However, this will put you at a huge disadvantage because the Diddy can utilize his bananas far greater than you can.

If he throws them at you, you can catch them. You don't have to let them bounce off your shield or let them hit you. SH Nair, Fair, Z-Catch, airdodge, and A (grounded) are Lucas's best options for catching a banana when both players are grounded. You can also pick up bananas on the ground with SH Nair, Fair, Airdodge, falling Z-Catch, and rising Z-Catch. Because Lucas doesn't have a glide toss (he does but it's so small and unnoticeable so it's better to say he doesn't), learn how to Jump-Cancelled Item Throw or practice it if you already know it. Input either left or right on the control stick (optional, gives you a slide), Jump and then quickly press A. It's easiest to just slide your thumb from Y to A if you use a GCC and your Y is Jump.

Spend the match feeling out how the Diddy dances around the stage with the bananas. Diddy players have the freedom of major fluidity and stage control, so learn in what ways the Diddy abuses them. It'll be easier to fight a Diddy once you can figure out how and when he uses his bananas. You should try to play slow until you feel comfortable fighting the Diddy while still thinking on your toes. Don't try to stay in a single spot too long or pick up bad habits because Diddy can detect them really quickly with bananas to punish you. You have to feel as confident and comfortable as the Diddy does in this matchup; you can't give him the stage and tell him that he can do whatever he wants with it.

As far as the actual fighting, don't try to punish his dash attack after shielding it. Maybe Jab it if you manage to powershield the dash attack. He usually does it to pick up a banana so you'll be really vulnerable to punishes if you try to punish dash attack. Not to mention his Dash Attack is multihit and is pretty hard to punish just by itself.

Don't try to fish for the kill. Diddy will punish you. Take your time; let the kill come to you. Diddy doesn't exactly have the best kill power, so you'll be sticking around for a decent amount of time per stock as long as your DI is on point. With that being said, there's no reason for you to try to force kills when he has a hard time killing as well. Just be patient and wait for it. Repedeatly going for the kill will only result in you taking a bunch of damage as well as having a bad habit that Diddy will just dance around. If you hit a Diddy with a SH Banana throw and DI towards him, an Fsmash followup is guaranteed. If Diddy is forced to recover somewhere that's level to the stage, send out a PKT. It'll usually hit him and put him in a really bad spot. If he's offstage somewhere that's higher than the stage, don't bother sending out a PKT. It won't hit him and you'll just get punished. Just try to punish him when he comes down (if it's somewhere near to you). Don't try to chase an evasive Diddy around, more times than not you'll wind up putting yourself into a bad situation that the Diddy wanted (kinda like vs Wario).

Here are a few ways to use bananas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2_K-RBt7qI#t=6m30s

Here's a Lucas player with very good banana control: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfsH-JRkTh8
 

Luco

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Hmmmm Luco against Pit you dont really want to lose the lead, because if you have % lead you can just absorb and wait for him to approach you, this takes away Pits defensive advantage if you know what I mean, because once hes in mid range you can PkFire and absorb without being punished.
Also instead of fsmashing so much use dair or pivot grab more! Also try mixing up your Jabs, so do something like Jab>Jab>Ftilt or Jab>Jab>Dtilt>nair/fsmash.
and you gotta stop DI'ing into his arrows lol.
Dont recover too close to the stage either, he can reflect ur body/PKT or use Up-B to push your body away and stuff up ur recovery.
In terms of approaching, you dont really want to, just Pk fire and absorb until he comes, or do some safe dairs/ nair behind him so he cant shield grab.
if he jumps, his fair beats urs so just pk fire.
Also never air dodge when landing back on the stage, just air dodge towards the ledge and cancel it with a tether grab!
this is what ive gathered from versing Jei (a really good and technical Pit, who knows like all the AT's -_-) so im not sure if im right but hey i make these mistakes too so this is more what i think i would do (if i was playing 100%) so its probably not the best :D
this is with lucas btw, i dont really know the match-up with ness
Yes I was interested in the recovery. If you absolutely have to recover down low, your best bet is to PKT2 upwards. This way, if he reflects you it's not such a big deal. As for the arrows, I see what you mean. He gets so mindgamey and I keep forgetting to roll or spotdodge out of that magnet.
 

Jamwa

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Dont forget about Diddy Kong, That if you Pk Fire and he throws a banana, the Pk fire will send the banana in the air but will not burst and still hit diddy kong, so its very good to use if hes throwing banana's at you from the ground

also hyutter is crazy

noooo he missed the dtilt D:
 

Karnu

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My solution to fighting diddy kong is to swap to Lucario :p

lol jks, my Lucas can hold his own.

that's some great advice FAE, I'll take that in even though you were not talking to me :p
 

jd00824

Smash Rookie
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May 6, 2012
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any of you guys ever have problems with shorter characters? (i.e. pikachu, toon link, ect.) I mean, they're hard enough matchups already......but it seems like I don't really connect a lot with my dair, and sometimes my retreating pk fire goes right over them

I've been practicing a lot, but Pikachu just sucks to play for me....any tips?
 

Luco

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^ you don't always have to do a retreating pkf... Try running away and pivot your pkf back at him so you're still grounded.. mix this up with pivot grabs when he reads you and tries to shield.
YES! I do that sometimes and I was hoping I wasn't the only one. Yay for pivot PKFs! :D
 

Mad Duck

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Ugh,I can't pull off the D Tilt lock more than two D Tilts,I want to walk and I end running or doing a dash attack...

(edit: I messed up,but I think you get the idea,my english is bad,sorry)
 

FightAdamantEevee

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Try practicing the motions without hitting anyone, like go in practice mode and just try to do it across the stage without messing up. The way I find it easiest to do is I hold my control stick down and press A for the Dtilt, reset the control stick to neutral position while still keeping my thumb on it then gently move it to the direction I'm going, then back down for another Dtilt. So my thumb does a triangular motion with the Control Stick. You don't have to worry about doing it super fast either, Lucas's Dtilt lock allows you to go at a leisurely but reasonable pace so it'd be best if you start there.
 

Govikings07

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Yeah i find it easier to not rush it. His dtilt is pretty fast and gives you enough time to do it again. Just dont feel like you have to rush the next d tilts and you will be fine. :)

:phone:
 

Jimmy?

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Wifi makes me soooo ****ing salty. Probably unhealthy. Oh well, I won most of the matches I played, but I kept getting hit by things that shouldn't have hit. Not being able to powershield is terrible. For reals, brah. That's like the only reason I ever lost the 1v1s I played today...

/johns.
 

Luco

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Wifi makes me soooo ****ing salty. Probably unhealthy. Oh well, I won most of the matches I played, but I kept getting hit by things that shouldn't have hit. Not being able to powershield is terrible. For reals, brah. That's like the only reason I ever lost the 1v1s I played today...

/johns.
I used to be very good a wi-fi before I took an arrow to the knee back when I played it heaps but now I don't. Used to be so much fun trying to communicate with the other players and on a really good day you could have them trying out stuff they've never tried out before. I've trained some people on how to DI properly on Shadow Moses Island in sudden death on wi-fi and I used to see this awesome Lucario who only ever seemed to play seriously when me or my brother were on. We could always tell each other because of our playstyles but I went on a little while ago, saw him and showed him all the cool stuff I had learnt by that stage (I think a little after my first or second tourny at the time) like zap-jumps, magnet and revere magnet pull, going under the stage etc etc, to which he showed me what he had learnt. He was also really good because whenever we came up against CPU's we'd team up together and he'd heal me whenever I needed it. He'd let me take the win, doing all the fighting and he'd be content with second. Such an awesome person, wish I could have met that lucario in real life or maybe play on wifi again...

Koozy: Nice to see you again man. :)


NOW to get to what I originally came to say...

I've got tickets to the EB expo this october! Assuming the times match up well it should be epic and i'll tell you guys if I find something exciting or new. ^^
 

Strawhat64

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Try practicing the motions without hitting anyone, like go in practice mode and just try to do it across the stage without messing up. The way I find it easiest to do is I hold my control stick down and press A for the Dtilt, reset the control stick to neutral position while still keeping my thumb on it then gently move it to the direction I'm going, then back down for another Dtilt. So my thumb does a triangular motion with the Control Stick. You don't have to worry about doing it super fast either, Lucas's Dtilt lock allows you to go at a leisurely but reasonable pace so it'd be best if you start there.
yea, do what he said. I did this for a good 30 minute...
took me 3 hours to master D-tilt lock...
but i do get it wrong sometimes though.
 

Luco

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It's at Sydney showground this year mate. :(

Depending on the success it has here, it could be in Sydney every time. I'd fly or drive up one time for it if I were you, Jam. :D
 

Jamwa

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It's at Sydney showground this year mate. :(

Depending on the success it has here, it could be in Sydney every time. I'd fly or drive up one time for it if I were you, Jam. :D
im 17 lol, not flying anywhere on my own for a while :(:c:(:(:c
 
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