The Lucas Boards' MU Thread - Discussing: Sonic

[Uffe]

You can grab bananas with forward air, right? You should be able to grab them with your nair as well. Its been mentioned already, but if you see them on the ground, you can just air dodge right onto them, picking them up, if timed correctly, which isn't that hard to time. Diddy Kong isn't much of a problem when you learn how to deal with his bananas. Just avoid rolling left or right unless Diddy Kong is right in your face or behind you. Otherwise just stand up to avoid continuous tripping.

Diddy Kong alone isn't that difficult to deal with. If he doesn't have his bananas out, you can rush him which forces him to fight back, not giving him much of a chance to bring out his bananas, though I wouldn't suggest it. Just continue to space yourself well enough, toss the bananas at him, glide toss them if you can, throw them up, jump up and throw them down, etc. Just be creative. Either way, Diddy Kong will find a way to bring out his bananas.

Other than that, watch out for his Up B cancel. He'll just charge it, wait for you to attack and then his rocket will explode on you, which isn't good. His Peanut Popgun isn't too much of a problem. Unless he's trying to gimp you, which even with that shouldn't be easy since he can't aim it. 60:40, that's too steep in my opinion. Sorry.

 

[Tyr_03]

Dude, I don't even know how to fight Diddy. Literally my only strategy in this matchup is throw bananas off the stage. All I know is that he beats Lucas just like everyone else lol.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I would think to throw the Banana's up so he can't pull anymore out.

He doesn't have much priority on his moves, which is good. I'd say that as long as he doesn't have control of his banana's we can outspace him.

(no one called Tyr's post)

 

[Tyr_03]

Oh yeah, Overswarm tells me to stand near the edge of the stage when you're at high percentage so that he can't use his kill moves on you out of bananas. Because you slide off. But yeah, I lose to Diddy.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Lol take his banana and camp it and him. It's easy as crap to grab them with Lucas. His Fair > all our Aerials though, but it's unsafe and punishable, so you can bait it.

Though it's wifi, I play alot of Diddy's. I have alot of MU experience. Just grab them ****es and camp.

The easiest way to learn how to fight diddy is to pick him up yourself.

ALSO, He shouldn't be killing you until 170ish% without his kill moves. I survived till 230 something earlier, because He had no banana setups.

Oddly, PK fire explodes on bananas lol.

It's a slight disadvantage for Lucas =/

WHERE'S LUCAS' SKILLS >_>

 

[ZMan]

i play dekar all the time and he ***** me ~95% of the time. this mu is just annoying becuase diddy is gay with bananas.

ill write something when im not feeling sick as ****.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

... perhaps we should have called what Zman would say O.o...

Get well soon Zman

Oddly, PK fire explodes on bananas lol.

PK Banana?

 

[Boofy!]

Bananas are the projectile with the highest priority IIRC (and his peanuts have the lowest lol). But I do know they will stop your pkt in it's tracks, leaving you helpless. Situational, but possible.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

The worst thing you could do is try and use diddy's bananas against him. If you try that against good diddys you are in for a surprise because they know how to handle those things. Your best bet is to either just toss the nanas off the stage, or pick up one and place it at the opposite side that diddy is on and keep him away and try to **** his **** while he tries to get to his other banana (this option is not suitable for children).

This matchup REALLY sucks, I hate it so much (got knocked out of losers by a diddy in a tourney yesterday -.-). I've yet to totally figure out this matchup so I get my stuff wrecked pretty often by them. I'd say your best bet is on platforms and in the air, but whatever you do don't stand in one spot, you have to move around so much in this matchup (make diddy work hard for those kills). Throwing out random (not really random) air psi magnets for air stalling can make sure that diddy can't get his momentum started easily.

I'll try and give some more advice later on but I'm tired and actually have no clue why I'm still awake.

 

[orange/xd]

His bananas are so ****ing annoying. Toss them off the edge, and stay close to him I guess....

60-40

 

[Chuee]

Once you get control of the bananas it's not that hard. You can grab a banana and start camping with it. You can also combo into a grab with them. Once you grab him you can throw him offstage. He cant side B because he'll go straight into the PKT. Controlling his bananas is key in this matchup. If you don't know how to deal with them you'll get ****ed.

55-45 Slight diddy advantage.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

well, while we wait for Zman to get better we might as well start on the stage discussion for Diddy

BTW Zman, it'd be great if you just post what you know or PM so I can get it in the thread... hope you get better

 

[Hobs]

The worst thing you could do is try and use diddy's bananas against him.

I'm pretty sure that is a lie. It's only torture if you have no idea how to control them. As someone else said, you have to learn all about how to use naners. If you play your cards right, you might even start scaring diddy out of pulling naners.

I'm not sure how well Lucas camps, but if you do camp, you can get a naner and hold it.

 

[GreyClover]

I don't have much matchup exprience with Diddy so most of my infomation is based on a hypothsis.

The matchup can be very fustrating unless you know how to deal with his bananas. Do your best to play smart with your projectiles, pk fire and pk thunder. Learn both of them very good so you could bait Diddy kong to glide tossing straight into a pk fire. You can also pick up Diddy Kong's banana and mindgame him into a trip so you can get easy follow ups. Try and grab him out of his aerials to rack up damage but be careful because if you don't get the timing down, Diddy's air moves can combo at low/mid percents. Learn to DI Diddy Kong's Fsmash.

Offstage Diddy has many options with gimping. His aerials I think can stop pk thunder as long with bananas too, peanut gun also does a decent job at gimping, and his Dair can spike you really fast. Lucas can also gimp Diddy Kong, aerials do good but try to hit him when he's doing his side-B and if you do it right he won't be able to use his Up-B. If Diddy is recoving below you can walk-off Dair or Bair him and hope it spikes or just straight up edgeguard him.

Battlefield is obviously a decent counterpick with the limited space and platforms for bananas or glide tosses.

 

[Tokaio]

You definitely should stage strike FD first. It's a given with Diddy. Lylat is bad for them, so guess that they'll strike that, so I would go Yoshi's. They'll probably strike Battlefield, and Lylat
There are so many counterpicks for Diddy. Just choose one that disrupts his banana game. Brinstar is the best one imo. Norfair, and RC come in mind too. Also, BF if you don't like any thing that disrupts your game.
Ban: FD EDIT: and Pictochat. He can banana lock you and it's flat

 

[Boofy!]

^Do NOT let diddy go to SV or FD.. those are your 2 strikes. 90% of the time first match will wind up on BF.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Norfair is actually good for diddy. It's just a common misconception that it is not.

RC isn't too bad either. Diddy on RC > Lucas on RC.

Brinstar would be ideal. and PS2 if it's allowed

 

[rPSIvysaur]

So the stage would go:

Strike: Final Destination, Smasville
Ban: Final Destination
Counterpick: Brinstar, Pokemon Stadium 2

Your thoughts?

 

[ZMan]

picto is good for diddy. same with delfino.

ps1 might be a good choice with stage changing. beware of banana locks in the fire and stone transformation.

 

[orange/xd]

definately cp brinstar

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Zman, do you think you can write some about the MU yet? We could really use it.

 

[ZMan]

eh, just keep moving this match, don't get predictable with trip getups, keep bananas away from him (you're not using bananas against diddy). i think the matchup is even, keep pressure on him and keep momentum in your favor. you can win if you that.

i like dair against diddy. i like using z to pick up bananas. i like dairing -> dtilt lock -> fsmashing diddy.

ill be a tournament next weekend where dekar will be at (and i can guarantee you ill be fighting dekar in tournament) so ill post more things/vids hopefully.

oh and if he tries to kill off of dsmash, di down and use tether to grab the ledge. diddy will try to kill off of dair spike at low %, and fsmash, fair, and bair and higher % (and by highter % i mean 200% lol) watch out and stay alert.

and frame data http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239185

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

I'm pretty sure that is a lie. It's only torture if you have no idea how to control them. As someone else said, you have to learn all about how to use naners. If you play your cards right, you might even start scaring diddy out of pulling naners.

no it's not a lie. using bananas against a GOOD diddy is an extremely dangerous thing to do. Diddy has too many safe options for taking back control of the bananas. It doesn't really matter how much you know about how to control the bananas, it is not a safe option against diddy.

You need to place the bananas on the opposite side of the stage from where diddy is and keep him away, without his bananas diddy is extremely gimped. If you still don't believe me on this one, that is your problem.

 

[Rachmaninav89]

Yea forget about out playing a diddy kong with his bananas. There's no real point to it, especially since his character is made to handle them where as lucas doesn't need to rely on them. Keep away from him, if he grabs that banana it can be a free 20% combo if done right, or worse haha.

 

[prOAPC]

Lucas is bad using bananas, his dash attack is not good, his glide toss and jump canceled throw are bad, he sux at tech chasing after you hit with a banana...
best way to use them, grab one and camp or throw them up or place them strategically to control the stage

 

[Rinku リンク]

If you see diddy trying to get out bananas use PKF to keep him from picking them up. Just make sure you time and space it so that way it doesen't clash or you end up tripping over them.

 

[orange/xd]

DO NOT try to use Diddy's bananas against him. Even if you know how to control the bananas,

 

[rPSIvysaur]

If you see diddy trying to get out bananas use PKF to keep him from picking them up. Just make sure you time and space it so that way it doesen't clash or you end up tripping over them.

Get out of here... You're not ready yet... (inside joke)

oh and if he tries to kill off of dsmash, di down and use tether to grab the ledge.

Cool, I didn't know he could whiplash... I'm going to have to test this out on diddy's d-smash and other moves
--------
I'm also thinking about reviewing just the ratio for Snake after Diddy really quickly, because I'm really starting to think it might be worse

 

[Rinku リンク]

Wow really ? lol.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Lucario discussion begins

 

[rPSIvysaur]

bump... (to let people know their's something new)

 

[Tokaio]

Hmm...I don't see alot of Lucarios at tourneys. The main thing is he can't kill much. Our PSI magnet nullifies his aura sphere basically, since you usually use it from far away and it's slow. He gets stronger the more damage he has. That's all i know

 

[Chuee]

Pros
We can absorb his Aura Spheres
We can gimp him

Cons
He outranges us
He beats our air game

 

[ZMan]

lucario can go eat an std-infested doggy-****. i will skip all lucario matches, he is the worst addition in smash, the most boring character, and he replaced mew2. whenever i see him being played my love of smash and gaming in general is killed.

**** lucario and ill say nothing more on the matter.

 

[Rinku リンク]

He can't really spam against you but be aware that he can mix it up and you might get a full aura sphere in your face when you least expect it so always be on your guard. Try to avoid fighting in the air with him as well or else your asking for trouble. As for combat on the ground you'll want to roll dodge a bit more than spot dodge (But watch out for his D-smash) since all of his moves have long hitboxes. He's pretty light so keep your kill moves fresh so that way he doesen't have a chance to use his aura buff. You can always try to edgehog him since his up - B doesen't do anything. Though most Lucario players will overshoot there recovery to avoid this so take advantage of this.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Dang, I didn't get to call Z-man's post...

We're too light to be chaingrabbed also, because we're awesome.
I mostly agree with Z-man though

 

[phi1ny3]

I haven't played a lucas in a really long time, the last one I played was Aevin, and that was like 7 months ago lol.
I don't like numbers, but I'd put it at 55:45 lucario's favor, maaaybe 60:40, for superior outranging tools, and decent longevity (which is always good for lucario), provided he didn't get "lulsmashed/dair ickified". (I'm not sure if the last option works on lucario, although I've seen it work on other chars to a better extent).
iirc, lucas doesn't have the most sufficient of fast ledgehop -> kill options (like marth/MK) to reset the situation if lucario goes for the stage on recovery, so it's overall pretty safe, also considering that if lucario is doing all the right things, ES won't need to be used, because of his good second jump.

lucario can go eat an std-infested doggy-****. i will skip all lucario matches, he is the worst addition in smash, the most boring character, and he replaced mew2. whenever i see him being played my love of smash and gaming in general is killed.

**** lucario and ill say nothing more on the matter.

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3292069
NO U.

 

[Rachmaninav89]

My friend seconds Lucario, and I am beginning to hate the match up more and more. Yes we can absorb his aura and what not, but he gets stronger as his damage increases, and he combos like a *****. He outranges us in alot of attacks and his dair is singlehandedly the most annoying attack in the world. A lucario that knows the Lucas matchup will use his blue balls as mind games and you'll hope you can absorb it, but in the end will invole you getting grabbed and comboed. Also Lucario has a very scary range on his forward smash and he can pretty much spam it continuously until it hits, or you manage to get over him. He contains alot of priority and I would pk fire alot and, his uptilt can be a killer so be careful when you attempt the dair lock. Overall I would say 55-45 Lucario's favor. As long as you know when to approach you'll be ok.

 

[lil cj]

Personally Lucario is my Lucas' worst matchup
Since his airgame is superior their ours
Its going to be hard to approach
I guess camping could be the solution to beating Lucario?

 

[ZMan]

phi1ny3- http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3293034

NO U