~Nasty~
Smash Lord
i have some things to say about this MU as well bc i play .Com... so i will most likely add to this discussion tomorrow.
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The Lucas Boards' MU Thread - Discussing: Sonic
- Thread starter #HBC | J
- Start date
If lucas Dsmashed the ledge Oli would probably wait for it to finish and use a getup attack.
Oli's Up-B grabs the edge as long as he's close enough and no one else is on the ledge.
YES NAME CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HailCrest
Smash Journeyman
lol. who're you gonna prank?
No, as in Dsmash the ledge before loli UpB's. Will it destroy his pikmin? Will it hit him as he's climbing up to the ledge like Lucas' snake?
What if someone IS on the ledge and isn't invincible? Will it hit him, then grab the ledge or hit and miss the ledge completely?
Probably not.
If Olimar up-B's when they dont have invinc. it hits them but Olimar doesn't grab the ledge.
~Nasty~
Smash Lord
ok here are some quick thoughts of mine on this MU:
- i find nair to work really well in this MU.. especially Nair > Jab combo
- Most ppl know we go from Nair > Jab combo so after the first or second jab you should grab if they are sheilding bc they will most likely grab you if you don't connect with any of those hits.
- Our Dair loses to his Uair if he has a yellow pikmin (i am almost 100% sure of this)
- His UpB is super fast so be careful when quick grabbing the ledge or you'll get stage spiked
- If you are on the ledge while olimar is trying to recover they will either:
A) look for a purple pikmin to hit you with before they use their upB or
B) wait till your invincibility frames are gone and they will use their UpB causing them to die but it may also stage spike you. (So be aware of your %age and decide if it's worth taking the hit OR have extremely good timing getting up from the ledge)
- Yellow pikmin make your Nair laaggggg so this could be a good opportunity to attempt to trick them by using Nair so they drop their shield sooner
- Yellow pikmin also laaaggg our Dsmash when one is stuck to you so you may be able to trick them by using it here as well.
- If you are at high %age and olimar spams pikmin at you, don't worry about it. You are about to die anyway so my attitude is just let it go, let him run out of pikmin and then take advantage of the situation.
- NEVER chase an olimar who is running away, you WILL get pivot grabbed
- PKF can only do so much to stop pikmin spam, you will have to approach sooner rather than later.
This MU isn't as bad as i used to think it was. No worse than 60-40.
- i find nair to work really well in this MU.. especially Nair > Jab combo
- Most ppl know we go from Nair > Jab combo so after the first or second jab you should grab if they are sheilding bc they will most likely grab you if you don't connect with any of those hits.
- Our Dair loses to his Uair if he has a yellow pikmin (i am almost 100% sure of this)
- His UpB is super fast so be careful when quick grabbing the ledge or you'll get stage spiked
- If you are on the ledge while olimar is trying to recover they will either:
A) look for a purple pikmin to hit you with before they use their upB or
B) wait till your invincibility frames are gone and they will use their UpB causing them to die but it may also stage spike you. (So be aware of your %age and decide if it's worth taking the hit OR have extremely good timing getting up from the ledge)
- Yellow pikmin make your Nair laaggggg so this could be a good opportunity to attempt to trick them by using Nair so they drop their shield sooner
- Yellow pikmin also laaaggg our Dsmash when one is stuck to you so you may be able to trick them by using it here as well.
- If you are at high %age and olimar spams pikmin at you, don't worry about it. You are about to die anyway so my attitude is just let it go, let him run out of pikmin and then take advantage of the situation.
- NEVER chase an olimar who is running away, you WILL get pivot grabbed
- PKF can only do so much to stop pikmin spam, you will have to approach sooner rather than later.
This MU isn't as bad as i used to think it was. No worse than 60-40.
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
P~S and I think it's even.
HailCrest
Smash Journeyman
More about pikmin:
Reds are more likely to be plucked from carpets (e.g. luigi's mansion)
Whites and Blues are more likely to be plucked from water-based surfaces (ice, clouds, shallow water on delfino)
Yellows and Purples come up more on metallic surfaces (corneria, cars on big blue, etc etc)
Reds are more likely to be plucked from carpets (e.g. luigi's mansion)
Whites and Blues are more likely to be plucked from water-based surfaces (ice, clouds, shallow water on delfino)
Yellows and Purples come up more on metallic surfaces (corneria, cars on big blue, etc etc)
Noraa
Smash Lord
umm hail.....thats a no
Zori
Smash Champion
o-o..........lol
lil cj
Smash Lord
Yea...the pikmin colors are completely random lol
heytallman
CTALL
wtf DMG gtfo lol
Esca
Smash Champion
Some Pikmin have a higher % chance of coming out on different terrain. They may not come out 100%, however, you have double the chance of pulling blues whilst in water/on clouds, etc...
HailCrest
Smash Journeyman
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=212786
Well I wasn't exactly 100% in my post above but the pikmin percentages DO depend on terrain.
lrn2researchtheopponent
Well I wasn't exactly 100% in my post above but the pikmin percentages DO depend on terrain.
lrn2researchtheopponent
Tallman seriously, I've talked to Zac and Billy about it. We think that G&W follows the assumed rules/algorithms (Like you can't pull a hammer two times in a row, you can't pull a 1 on the first hammer, etc) with the additional "side rule" that the number you pull is based somehow on when you pull the hammer time wise. I don't know if it is based on the 60 frames, or if it's on a 1-9 frame scale that repeats over and over, or even if it's a combination of your single digit second number followed by the Milisecond, etc. But we think that the specific time you pluck the hammer affects what number you get.
heytallman
CTALL
Texas now owns this thread. lol
edit: DMG I said that because you kinda came out of nowhere, unless you've been posting in this thread and I just didn't notice. It just caught me by surprise. And then esca came in.
edit: DMG I said that because you kinda came out of nowhere, unless you've been posting in this thread and I just didn't notice. It just caught me by surprise. And then esca came in.
HailCrest
Smash Journeyman
DMG, probably the game uses the timer (be it in frames or milliseconds) as a seed in deciding which number to pull or which pikmin to pull in addition to the previous rules (but I swear I've seen loli pull out two of the same color in a row).
heytallman
CTALL
lol well I never check the Lucas boards. Although I probably should D:
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
DMG I'LL TEACH YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW.
nair shields
Dair just to dair
hit people with stupid attacks
???
profit
nair shields
Dair just to dair
hit people with stupid attacks
???
profit
PhoenixAlpha
Smash Journeyman
Yink
The Robo-PSIentist
Esca
Smash Champion
That's what I do. DMG, the only real thing to do is camp. No other strategy Lucas has works.
~Nasty~
Smash Lord
@Dmg.. instead of Dair camping like mk, you should pkf spam like a mk would Dair camp/nado spam. haha
prOAPC
Smash Lord
back on topic...
-you know was better (or as least as good) than jab? Dtilt. It stops most of Olimar's ground attacks, specially his shield grab (which is slow) and smash attacks. Use jab cancel to dtilt often
-his uair is really good, it doesn't matter which pikmin he's using, it still has good priority, if his using a yellow pikmin, you'll get hit
-when his on the ledge, his getup attack has an amazing range for such a small character, it can be tricky
-his pikmin toss is not much of a deal, a simple jab would stop them the problem is when they're tossing purple pikmins. I'm not sure, but i think attacking a pikmin will refresh your attacks
-nair is better than dair in this matchup
-i don't agree with you guys when you said to don't PKT when he's off stage, just PKT as soon as you hit him and stay in a save place (like under a platform). He can't punish you that good, the worst you can get is a purple pikmin in your face
-He doen't like to get grabbed. Everytime you land a grab, is a free way to put him in the air. When do grab? If you shield his dsmash, it is a free grab. Don't try to grab his other smash attacks, wait for the dsmash (double smash, like usmash (miss)+dsmash is pretty common)
-While his in the air, you have a BIG advantage. A well-timed Uair beats his Dair or you can just wait for him to land and jab or pivot grab (use it with the proper mindgame)
-it's hard to punish his grounded upB or sh upB, he recovers very fast, just stay away and PK fire
-you know was better (or as least as good) than jab? Dtilt. It stops most of Olimar's ground attacks, specially his shield grab (which is slow) and smash attacks. Use jab cancel to dtilt often
-his uair is really good, it doesn't matter which pikmin he's using, it still has good priority, if his using a yellow pikmin, you'll get hit
-when his on the ledge, his getup attack has an amazing range for such a small character, it can be tricky
-his pikmin toss is not much of a deal, a simple jab would stop them the problem is when they're tossing purple pikmins. I'm not sure, but i think attacking a pikmin will refresh your attacks
-nair is better than dair in this matchup
-i don't agree with you guys when you said to don't PKT when he's off stage, just PKT as soon as you hit him and stay in a save place (like under a platform). He can't punish you that good, the worst you can get is a purple pikmin in your face
-He doen't like to get grabbed. Everytime you land a grab, is a free way to put him in the air. When do grab? If you shield his dsmash, it is a free grab. Don't try to grab his other smash attacks, wait for the dsmash (double smash, like usmash (miss)+dsmash is pretty common)
-While his in the air, you have a BIG advantage. A well-timed Uair beats his Dair or you can just wait for him to land and jab or pivot grab (use it with the proper mindgame)
-it's hard to punish his grounded upB or sh upB, he recovers very fast, just stay away and PK fire
~Nasty~
Smash Lord
also a common quick combo i've seen a lot is an olimar's Nair into Utilt
PhoenixAlpha
Smash Journeyman
Kinda like we can do? I love nair > utilt and I think it'd be good here since it places him above us.
DMG: You will always appease me, don't worry. :-D
lil cj
Smash Lord
That would be great!
One of the best Wario players playing Lucas!
Welcome to the fam DMG
Can you post a picture in the Lucas community picture thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=228805
~Nasty~
Smash Lord
yeah like we can do. instead of approaching us from the front with Nair, they'd be coming from on top of us with Nair > Utilt.. i spoke with my friend who mains olimar, he said he could also go from Nair > Usmash or Dsmash.
anyone know of a good way to get around this? my suggestion would be just shield the entire chain of attacks and punish from there. Does his Nair beat out Utilt??
rPSIvysaur
[ɑɹsaɪ]
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2009
- Messages
- 16,415
Hey, can we take the DMG discussion to the Lucas General Discussion please?
PhoenixAlpha
Smash Journeyman
Can we smash DI out of the Nair? if so I'd say that.
Otherwise I would assume our Utilt beats nair, due to its disjoint. Might be a foul assumption though... lol.
I use the same mentality for MK's who glide attack to dsmash. I just shield until I think it will stop and punish with my mightiest punish option (jab).
prOAPC
Smash Lord
olimar's non pikmin based attacks have good priority, just bad range
that makes 3 of us =]
a lot of this is true, but be careful some of the better olis don't getup attack often from the ledge. we can also SH fair out of ur dtilt, so it's punishable if you spam it. if you are going to do it, follow up quickly or run away after.
we can nair into pretty much anything we want, it's sooooooooooooooo good :D
Yes, you can SDI out of nair, and most likely nair us back before we can do anything, or just completely out. BE CAREFUL IF YOU SDI OUT OF UTILT. we can dsmash you afterwards because you fall out near us, or follow up with a grab. if you sdi out of our utilt, grab us quick or do something before we pseudo-combo you
lil cj
Smash Lord
I didnt know that....cool!
Lucas can too