why don't you do the same
"lol lucas' jab has one of the worst range in the game"
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The Lucas Boards' MU Thread - Discussing: Sonic
- Thread starter #HBC | J
- Start date
"lol lucas' jab has one of the worst range in the game"
6Mizu
Smash Champion
guys calm down...
No need to fight...
No need to fight...
stingers
Smash Obsessed
...it does...
i mean it has pretty cool range behind it lol but uh
i mean it has pretty cool range behind it lol but uh
because in this game range is everything and if it has bad range it will never hit.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
x.x
sure bro.
sure bro.
6Mizu
Smash Champion
you know what I'm interfering.....
Lots of times range can really come in handy....what stingers was trying to say is it has bad range....but its hard to hit with....at least from what hes experienced.
so no range is no everything but lots of time range come in hand.
sort of like if jiggs had had more range on her jab it would be more useful.
Lots of times range can really come in handy....what stingers was trying to say is it has bad range....but its hard to hit with....at least from what hes experienced.
so no range is no everything but lots of time range come in hand.
sort of like if jiggs had had more range on her jab it would be more useful.
6Mizu
Smash Champion
Yes....but...
he has aerial mobility....and quickness (in his aerials) on his side.
so he has something to make up for his crap range.
......but I see what both of you mean.
he has aerial mobility....and quickness (in his aerials) on his side.
so he has something to make up for his crap range.
......but I see what both of you mean.
rPSIvysaur
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I swear to goodness, if we you guys don't stop the squabbling and get back to the MU i'm going to report your posts as spam...
Galeon
Smash Ace
sorry about the wait, i'll try to get the frames down tonight.
rPSIvysaur
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Yeah, I made sure to get all the frame stuff organized for you Galeon for the ROB boards, because theirs was so hard to read
Galeon
Smash Ace
Assuming all these are blocked and not ps'ed, biggest punish is listed. If you powershield, you can adjust accordingly by changing
1) Jabs/tilts > Dairs
2) Dairs > Fsmash/Dsmash
3) Fsmash > Dsmash
4) Dsmash > Usmash
5) Usmash > you're a greedy *****, yknow that?
Jabs: You can punish his jabs with your jabs/tilts.
Ftilt: Dair (might be tough since this is usually used to space and dair needs to be done close), might have to settle for shieldgrab)
Dtilt: Jabs, utilt with perfect timing assuming he tries to block after dtilt. If he's spamming dtilt, you can squeak in an ftilt but jabs/ftilt are recommended.
Utilt: Frame perfect fsmash punish (assuming the second hitbox misses Lucas), dair is suggested punishment.
D-smash: Frame perfect fsmash punish, dair is suggested.
F-smash: Fsmash
U-smash: It cant hit you in your shield unless you're on a platform above him. If you do block it on a platform and don't get pushed off (or sidestep the hit), you have enough time to drop through and hit him with any aerial.
Dash Attack: Fsmash
Aerials:
N-air: Jab/utilt
D-air: Lol really? Run usmash that *****. If he does it too low so the hitbox doesnt come out and he just lands, you can fsmash. Problem is that you cant react to shieldstun for timing since there isnt any shieldstun (no hitbox) so its best to go for the dair or ftilt depending on spacing.
F-air: Jab/utilt
B-air: Jab/utilt
U-air: Fsmash
Specials:
---Down B: N/A
---Neutal B: PSI Magnet
---Up B: N/A
---Side B: No data
Other:
Under 100% Ledge Attack: Dsmash
Over 100% Ledge Attack: Fsmash
Get-up Attack: Fsmash
1) Jabs/tilts > Dairs
2) Dairs > Fsmash/Dsmash
3) Fsmash > Dsmash
4) Dsmash > Usmash
5) Usmash > you're a greedy *****, yknow that?
Jabs: You can punish his jabs with your jabs/tilts.
Ftilt: Dair (might be tough since this is usually used to space and dair needs to be done close), might have to settle for shieldgrab)
Dtilt: Jabs, utilt with perfect timing assuming he tries to block after dtilt. If he's spamming dtilt, you can squeak in an ftilt but jabs/ftilt are recommended.
Utilt: Frame perfect fsmash punish (assuming the second hitbox misses Lucas), dair is suggested punishment.
D-smash: Frame perfect fsmash punish, dair is suggested.
F-smash: Fsmash
U-smash: It cant hit you in your shield unless you're on a platform above him. If you do block it on a platform and don't get pushed off (or sidestep the hit), you have enough time to drop through and hit him with any aerial.
Dash Attack: Fsmash
Aerials:
N-air: Jab/utilt
D-air: Lol really? Run usmash that *****. If he does it too low so the hitbox doesnt come out and he just lands, you can fsmash. Problem is that you cant react to shieldstun for timing since there isnt any shieldstun (no hitbox) so its best to go for the dair or ftilt depending on spacing.
F-air: Jab/utilt
B-air: Jab/utilt
U-air: Fsmash
Specials:
---Down B: N/A
---Neutal B: PSI Magnet
---Up B: N/A
---Side B: No data
Other:
Under 100% Ledge Attack: Dsmash
Over 100% Ledge Attack: Fsmash
Get-up Attack: Fsmash
rPSIvysaur
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I'd like to say that ROB's Side-B is super laggy and has a bad hitbox. This can probably be punished with f-smash
ZMan
Smash Master
but why would a rob use sideb in the first place? its slow and really doesn't do much other "lol rob used his side"
GwJ
Smash Hero
You'd be surprised. Most times someone throws it out, it goes unpunished because you see it so rarely, they're like "wtf" rather than "lol", but they're actually probably like "wtf lol".
ZMan
Smash Master
maybe people think "lol wtf" when they see HURRICANE ROB in action
i would say ftilt or jab to punsih that ****. maybe some fsmash. i dunno.
i would say ftilt or jab to punsih that ****. maybe some fsmash. i dunno.
GwJ
Smash Hero
I'm sure you could pull of an Usmash somehow, you can pull anything off practically.
Galeon
Smash Ace
I just had a thought (nothing to do with Rob). Wouldn't usmash out of shield not need to count the shield drop animation since we can cancel shield directly into usmash? If so, that'd mean that the stuff that gets punished by oos dsmash gets punished by oos usmash as well (give or take 1 or 2 frames)
This is assuming you have tap jump on. Do any of us play with tap jump on? o_o I know I cant because I cant stay on the ledge with up-b if I keep it on.
edit: and i read tactical today and found out i can b-stick with a c-stick =/ (not the hard way of forward, back, forward) but pressing b and the c-stick like at the same time. so i do the motion like i'm b-sticking but press the b button along with it. might be making my controls even weirder to finally get a c-stick back.
This is assuming you have tap jump on. Do any of us play with tap jump on? o_o I know I cant because I cant stay on the ledge with up-b if I keep it on.
edit: and i read tactical today and found out i can b-stick with a c-stick =/ (not the hard way of forward, back, forward) but pressing b and the c-stick like at the same time. so i do the motion like i'm b-sticking but press the b button along with it. might be making my controls even weirder to finally get a c-stick back.
HailCrest
Smash Journeyman
I would think that it's reversed... Assuming you're running towards the right, after you jump, you need to shoot a PK fire to the left and fling the C-stick right. It's almost the same, except you smash the c-stick in the opposite direction and your left hand has to do some work as well.
Then again, I don't know about GC controller but I'm assuming it's pretty close to a classic controllere here; so bear with me if I'm wrong but wouldn't arranging your thumb and index finger to become a "claw" to press B and flick the cstick at the same time be a little awkward?
~Nasty~
Smash Lord
Using a GC controller... my setup is L for jump, Y for grab and tap jump off and i C-stick... since Y is grab, wouldn't it be possible to set Z to special and then you don't have to claw it for any AT's? I'm gonna have to try it and see how it works.
rPSIvysaur
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I play with tap jump on because I use b-stick to do my PKT and PK Fire. :/
But this isn't a controller discussion, but you can use the jump buffer to u-smash anyway around, that's how I do running U-smashes w/ Lucas (even though it's just a jump-canceled dash). Just flick your finger from X to A and hold up.
But that's also nice to know that U-smash OoS punishes the same as D-smash OoS.
But I have a question, since moves push people back in thier sheilds, are all of the range dealt with?
I'd also like to see the thread that Galeon talked about...
[/move this conversation to Lucas General]
@Galeon: Do you think you could figure out some punisment for characters we've already done, but wasn't able to get the data like that?
Anyway, stages!
But this isn't a controller discussion, but you can use the jump buffer to u-smash anyway around, that's how I do running U-smashes w/ Lucas (even though it's just a jump-canceled dash). Just flick your finger from X to A and hold up.
But that's also nice to know that U-smash OoS punishes the same as D-smash OoS.
But I have a question, since moves push people back in thier sheilds, are all of the range dealt with?
I'd also like to see the thread that Galeon talked about...
[/move this conversation to Lucas General]
@Galeon: Do you think you could figure out some punisment for characters we've already done, but wasn't able to get the data like that?
Anyway, stages!
Tokaio
Smash Journeyman
Stage Strike: Final Destination, Yoshi's Island/Lylat
FD = camping
Counterpick: Brinstar, Norfair
lava makes the top bounce forever lol.
Ban: Frigate
FD = camping
Counterpick: Brinstar, Norfair
lava makes the top bounce forever lol.
Ban: Frigate
ZMan
Smash Master
as a rule of thumb, brawl players customize controls (usually with tap jump off) while melee players use the standard gc layout. i fall into the latter catagory.
~Nasty~
Smash Lord
How is BF for ROB? He Utilt and Usmash can hit us when we are on the two lower platforms but our Dsmash hits him as well.. so i guess it's a fair trade off either way.
I'd ban Frigate. and CP anywhere you're most comfortable tbh.
I'd ban Frigate. and CP anywhere you're most comfortable tbh.
rPSIvysaur
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Don't CP Japes though
Galeon
Smash Ace
I figured Rob'd like Delfino more than Frigate.
rPSIvysaur
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Well 6Mizu is boring so he only picks neutrals... 
Yeah, I'd assume that he would like Delfino and Frigate
Yeah, I'd assume that he would like Delfino and Frigate
~Nasty~
Smash Lord
I believe Rob would like delfino... and i also believe we stand a better chance on Delfino than we do on FrigateWell 6Mizu is boring so he only picks neutrals...
Yeah, I'd assume that he would like Delfino and Frigate
rPSIvysaur
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I'll just put to pick to ban them both because it depends on the ROB
HailCrest
Smash Journeyman
Also ROB has another way to shut down PKF camping because his side-b reflects... it's sort of like falco's in that it can attack, it reflects, and is very laggy.
What ROB needs to do: Camp.
What Lucas needs to do: Stay close to ROB comboing him.
How will ROB win: Rackin up damage while camping and knowing how to take Lucas off stage when he approaches so as to try kills.
How will Lucas win: Juggling and combos.
ROB will camp as he may get ****ed if he stays close to Lucas, who can combo with Nairs. Also, Lucas juggling game is amazing, Uairs work well against ROB.
For approaches, Lucas will try his multi hits moves; Nair and Dair, as ROB can deal with Lucas' Side B.
Off stage ROB does a nifty work. He has good edge guards options. When he's recoverying, Lucas can reflect the Gyro with Fsmash if ROB uses it(which happens very often).
For kills, my adice for ROB players is to take Lucas off stage when he approaches and edgeguard well. You know, ROB is weak when talking about KOs. He's a big target, and Lucas can get some Dsmashes. :]
Stages:
Neutral - Smashville(Lucas); FD/YS(ROB)
CP - Brinstar(Lucas); Frigate/Siege(ROB).
My ratio = Lucas 55-45 ROB. Lucas does a very good job when close to ROB, whose only option is to camp.
What Lucas needs to do: Stay close to ROB comboing him.
How will ROB win: Rackin up damage while camping and knowing how to take Lucas off stage when he approaches so as to try kills.
How will Lucas win: Juggling and combos.
ROB will camp as he may get ****ed if he stays close to Lucas, who can combo with Nairs. Also, Lucas juggling game is amazing, Uairs work well against ROB.
For approaches, Lucas will try his multi hits moves; Nair and Dair, as ROB can deal with Lucas' Side B.
Off stage ROB does a nifty work. He has good edge guards options. When he's recoverying, Lucas can reflect the Gyro with Fsmash if ROB uses it(which happens very often).
For kills, my adice for ROB players is to take Lucas off stage when he approaches and edgeguard well. You know, ROB is weak when talking about KOs. He's a big target, and Lucas can get some Dsmashes. :]
Stages:
Neutral - Smashville(Lucas); FD/YS(ROB)
CP - Brinstar(Lucas); Frigate/Siege(ROB).
My ratio = Lucas 55-45 ROB. Lucas does a very good job when close to ROB, whose only option is to camp.
rPSIvysaur
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The only problem is Lucas may be able to combo well, but if ROB SDI's right and spaces properly, Lucas has a really hard time killing him. Stingers can vouch for me on that.
That could be said for every character.
rPSIvysaur
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Meh... mabye it could be that most people I play have no idea what the Lucas MU or his range is, except the ROB's I play. Maybe it was because I was being seriously outplayed by Stingers (He is the 5th best ROB...) we were about even on getting the damage, but he clearly beat me by getting the kills. But just because it can be said for nearly every character doesn't make it not determine the MU.
*also what I meant is he can even space against f-tilt by just jabbing and what not and our f-smash by f-tilting and other stuff...
*also what I meant is he can even space against f-tilt by just jabbing and what not and our f-smash by f-tilting and other stuff...
stingers
Smash Obsessed
lol yeah i lived to like 240
since your only good options are ftilt and fsmash its really easy to avoid because its obvious you want them
but im sure galeon or other top lucases have a lot more tricks to get kills in
since your only good options are ftilt and fsmash its really easy to avoid because its obvious you want them
but im sure galeon or other top lucases have a lot more tricks to get kills in
Lucas' killing ability is like G&W. Both have really powerful smashes but have slow startup.
I really don't think not being able to kill him until later is that important in the MU to affect it by 5. Once the opponent is in like 130%+ lucas has so many kill options.
rPSIvysaur
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I'm going to work on the summary tomorrow, so any last words?
ZMan
Smash Master
make rob eat his own ****