The Lucas Boards' MU Thread - Discussing: Sonic

[rPSIvysaur]

yeah, anyone want to give ratios?

 

[Chuee]

55-45 D3
His Bair > our approaches
His ftilt outranges us.
He can CG us

We can camp him
We can force him to use up-B offstage using PKT. Free Usmash ^^

 

[~Nasty~]

yeah i'd say 55-45 his advantage. Nair works really well on him but just watch getting shield grabbed after you nair. the best way to avoid this is to land behind him after your Nair and turn around w/ an Ftilt.

 

[Rachmaninav89]

I would agree, i would try your best to use pk fire with a bit of a wave bounce because if DDD is close, he can perfect shield it and go in for a chain grab. It's a lot of spacing and making sure when to go in for pressure. His uptilt is a killer, be very careful with that, and his tilts have a ton of range so make sure to space, and his tilts can null pk fire. 55- 45 DDD.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I'm going 40-60 IMO, he can stop our projectile game easily with tilts and waddle doos, he can possibly b-air gimp us. He stops our close range pressure w/ a single grab. He also stops our d-air attempts with u-tilt. Over all it's pretty hard. The only thing we have in this MU is PKT(/possibly U-smash) and N-air

 

[Chuee]

I'm going 40-60 IMO, he can stop our projectile game easily with tilts and waddle doos, he can possibly b-air gimp us. He stops our close range pressure w/ a single grab. He also stops our d-air attempts with u-tilt. Over all it's pretty hard. The only thing we have in this MU is PKT(/possibly U-smash) and N-air

D3 can't gimp us. If mk can't theres no way he can.
Waddle Doos don't stop our projectile game.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

You did watch M2K vs. Tyr right?

 

[ksizl4life]

king ddd vs lucas

55-45 DDD favor?

KILL YOURSELVES

ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME

WHY IS THERE A MATCHUP DISCUSSION FOR A CHARACTER THATS NOT VIABLE?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Obvious Troll is obvious... anyways, ignore it

 

[Yink]

Just because the "character" is not "viable" in your eyes, doesn't mean the player using him is unable to defeat a higher tier.

Please sit in the back of the class and don't troll boards. It was quite unnecessary.

 

[heytallman]

king ddd vs lucas

55-45 DDD favor?

KILL YOURSELVES

ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME

WHY IS THERE A MATCHUP DISCUSSION FOR A CHARACTER THATS NOT VIABLE?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdiz0k0Rudw

Anything I'm about to say may have been said already, but I haven't gone through this thread to see anything else:

Jungle Japes would be a good CP against DDD if he doesn't strike it. Also Norfair, if it's legal.

If a DDD is Waddle Dee camping, sit back and fsmash it back at him if he throws a gordo. Also, try to keep waddle doos towards you, and recover if you can. It'll be tough to actually recover from this, but if you can, go for it.

Nair nair nair, but always try to land behind them if they shield it. Also don't forget autocancelled nair > uptilt, and since he's a fatty, you can combo him a bit at low percents.

Slightly in his favor, but definitely winnable. Closer to even than anything.

 

[Chuee]

king ddd vs lucas

55-45 DDD favor?

KILL YOURSELVES

ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME

WHY IS THERE A MATCHUP DISCUSSION FOR A CHARACTER THATS NOT VIABLE?

Why are you acting like you know our character way better than we do? Ksizle troll less plox.

 

[Uffe]

Don't worry about him, guys. I reported him.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Why are you acting like you know our character way better than we do? Ksizle troll less plox.

This is the reason why trolls work, you start replying to them... just stop replying to them and keep up with the MU instead. If Ksizle decides to help the MU with actual information so be it.

 

[Tokaio]

I would want for him to use Side - B. You might get lucky and he might throw a Waddle Doo, and you can:
1. You can heal yourself
2. The Dedede might just charge straight on thinking that you'll heal, so you can punish his recklessness

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

We lose.

Bair wins,
and
his grab > every approach.
We can't camp him.

DDDs just don't know the MU.

It's REALLY bad.

 

[Chuee]

We lose.

Bair wins,
and
his grab > every approach.
We can't camp him.

DDDs just don't know the MU.

It's REALLY bad.

Why can't we camp him? Waddle Doos are useless.
At most he can get about 30% from the CG at the very edge of FD.
Ima go get the D3s

 

[rPSIvysaur]

He can just throw new ones out to replace the old ones. Waddle Dorks stop our PK Fire. I think if PF would agree with me on 40-60 that would sound like the MU...

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

As requested,

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231077&page=9

Link boards are discussing Lucas.

 

[Jupz]

Bair shuts down all Lucas aerial approaches, but Lucas can shieldgrab his Bair. Inhale>Lucas pretty much. Dtilt stops him on the ground as does grab. If Lucas gets inside his range however he can cause havoc with cross-up'ed Nairs, grabs and Dairs. 60:40 D3, maybe 65:35.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

It's definitely in the range Jupz stated.

Inhale doesn't beat FH dairs, though. I've also been able to get off a dsmash just before being inhaled, but that was from prediction, so meh.

cBeef knowwsss. Once he starts playing gay, (Bair and Pivot grab only) I get *****. It's so stupid.

 

[orange/xd]

I'd say 60:40

 

[Uffe]

I'd say 55:45, D3, but I know how difficult D3 can be. So I'd go with 60:40. Lucas doesn't necessarily to get close to D3, but his Waddle Dee/Doo spam can be somewhat difficult to deal with.

 

[~Nasty~]

Bair shuts down all Lucas aerial approaches, but Lucas can shieldgrab his Bair. Inhale>Lucas pretty much. Dtilt stops him on the ground as does grab. If Lucas gets inside his range however he can cause havoc with cross-up'ed Nairs, grabs and Dairs. 60:40 D3, maybe 65:35.

i'd have to say i'm sold on the 60-40... but def not 65-35... i used to think this was lucas' best match up out of the higher tier characters until i played lain's D3. i have yet to play Atomsk though. I'll see if i can play him at Viridian City on the 24th of this month (if he shows up).

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Ok guys, it's time for punishment!

F-smash -
D-smash -
U-smash -
F-tilt -
D-tilt -
U-tilt -
Dash Attack -
Jab -
Aerials -

 

[Galeon]

Iunno about the frame data but from what I've experienced, there's a few common things DDD's do that are punishable if you're ready for it.

If he ftilts as a range check, you can run block and get a free fsmash.

If he throws a waddle dee, you can run block it and still have enough time to dash grab him. And I'm talking like halfway across final D. The throw is pretty laggy.

If he inhales, fsmash and dsmash and even grab beat it cleanly. Usmash gets left behind. You get pulled towards him as you're doing these and you win.

If you block a fastfalled dair, don't instantly shieldgrab. For one, you have much better damage options like a smash or dair. But primarily cause he'll bounce over your grab. His up tilt can also go over your grab.

Know the gay part? The ways to own a DDD for those spacing moves: waddle and dtilt, is something you would rarely want to do. Run blocking at a DDD is not a fair game of risk-reward. CG to the edge to gr dtilt or just grab release is alot of damage and its not like he has a huge problem killing.

Its not a counterpick matchup but I don't think its even either. I'd agree with 60-40 in DDD's favor. Once he knows the matchup, you just have to guess right more than he does.

 

[Chuee]

F-smash - Lots you can use to punish this, it's laggy
D-smash - Same as Fsmash
U-smash - Same
F-tilt - Not much you can do if it's spaced correctly
D-tilt - Shieldgrab, possibly Ftilt if your in range
U-tilt - If you airdodge the hitbox above D3, jab
Dash Attack - Shieldgrab, or a lot of other options. This move is waaaay laggy.
Jab - Ftilt, maybe shieldgrab
Bair - Not gonna punish it if auto canceled but if it's FFed shieldgrab
Fair - Uair
Uair - Just Airdodge
Dair - Same as Uair except shield
Nair - This move sucks and won't be used often.

Comments in blue.

Oh, and take D3 to Norfair if they don't ban it.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Iunno about the frame data but from what I've experienced, there's a few common things DDD's do that are punishable if you're ready for it.

If he ftilts as a range check, you can run block and get a free fsmash.

If he throws a waddle dee, you can run block it and still have enough time to dash grab him. And I'm talking like halfway across final D. The throw is pretty laggy.

If he inhales, fsmash and dsmash and even grab beat it cleanly. Usmash gets left behind. You get pulled towards him as you're doing these and you win.

If you block a fastfalled dair, don't instantly shieldgrab. For one, you have much better damage options like a smash or dair. But primarily cause he'll bounce over your grab. His up tilt can also go over your grab.

Know the gay part? The ways to own a DDD for those spacing moves: waddle and dtilt, is something you would rarely want to do. Run blocking at a DDD is not a fair game of risk-reward. CG to the edge to gr dtilt or just grab release is alot of damage and its not like he has a huge problem killing.

Its not a counterpick matchup but I don't think its even either. I'd agree with 60-40 in DDD's favor. Once he knows the matchup, you just have to guess right more than he does.

Ok so I get that it's truly a game of risk-reward, but what is to stop DDD from grabbing you everytime you run at him? What's the best anti-grab approach, (I assume they can be beat out by f-tilt)

 

[Jupz]

Dedede won't use Ftilt unless its at full range, then only faster characters can punish.

What you should be looking at is ways to get past his wall of Bairs and Dairs. Dairs can be punished by Usmash if they are predicted. Also look at ways to beat his inhale. Dsmash is actually a good move to punish Dedede's landing.

 

[Chuee]

Also look at ways to beat his inhale.

PK fiiiiiiire!

 

[Jupz]

Yeah, but hes not going to use Inhale if we're that far away. Most of the time you won't be expecting it.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Would FH PK Fire help to stop wall of B-air?

 

[Chuee]

Would FH PK Fire help to stop wall of B-air?

prob not since he'll only use it to punish approaches.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

That and Bair > Pk fire

 

[ZMan]

bair eats fire. the best way to beat bair is to empty short hop and try to utilt him

then mane of d3 v lucas is bait his attacks and do whatev it takes to get in a jab, ftilt, or dthrow > utilt strings.

pressuring d3s shield is a bad idea. otherwise we get grabbed or utilted :/ thats really the most annoying thing in this mu.

 

[~Nasty~]

anyone know what % dthrow > Utilt works till? if we know that, we can mix our game up a little better by going for Uairs, FH Nairs, or pivot grabs.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I'll try to find out... I'm doing friendlies w/ my friends right now, I'll see if they'll help me with that

 

[KassandraNova]

I have sooo much trouble with D3's. <_<

I hate them. :x

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I checked about the d-throw to u-tilt with my friend, I made sure that they DI'd correctly and we got up to 24% fresh in training before it stopped working

EDIT: Waiittt... you guys mean our d-throw to u-tilt right?

 

[Uffe]

His up tilt is outrageous. I don't like how it kills early.