The Lucas Boards' MU Thread - Discussing: Sonic

[Rachmaninav89]

yea pkfire beats his inhale! It's awesome when you see it hit, but he back air is nuts and and his tilts kill your pkfire. its good if you perfect shield his ftilt, but then he can dtilt after it almost immediately then grab.
F-smash - anything essentially, just be careful haha
D-smash - easy to punish, ftilt works well. Just be careful and roll into it. Bad idea.
U-smash - same ****.
F-tilt - hate it, be careful make sure you space well, after a f-tilt there can come the wonderful d tilt to go with it. If you can get in between the hammer and ddd while hes doing it you can use a ftilt to counter as long as DDD doesn't grab or anything haha.
D-tilt - Annoying. Perfect shield and grab that **** just like psience said.
U-tilt -BE ****ING CAREFUL. roll in your dead at 100. your dair is dangerous to try too since it has a lot of priority. jab, pk fire, tilts.
Dash Attack - its very laggy so if you time it you can punish w f smash before he lands it. otherwise roll out of the way, cuz it can kill early,
Jab - shield and tilt, or nair works decently.
Aerials - what psience said. haha

This match up is insane, my friend knows lucas too well now, and loves to grab so chain grabbing is always a *****. and be careful getting back on the stage if on the ledge, DDD has a lot of options to punish you . im more on 60-40 with it than my previous 55-45 as i thought about it more haha.

 

[ZMan]

as a general rule of thumb, you should never ever be rolling into you opponent. lots of bad things can happen to you when you do that.

 

[Uffe]

as a general rule of thumb, you should never ever be rolling into you opponent. lots of bad things can happen to you when you do that.

I tell that to people and ironically enough I end up doing it myself.

 

[heytallman]

With base stats like these, how can we win?

HP 160
Def 140
SpDef 140
SpAtk 50
Atk 110
Speed 30*

*Taken from the winner for the Question of the Week a few weeks ago on All is Brawl. wtf broken tier.

 

[Rachmaninav89]

Yea something I finally got over recently, helps alot haha.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

as a general rule of thumb, you should never ever be rolling into you opponent. lots of bad things can happen to you when you do that.

Lol, my one scrub kirby friend pretty much only does that and Johns about my D-smash complaining that he wishes he had one that good. His way of fighting rolling and grabbing... phail

D-tilt - Annoying. Perfect shield and grab that **** just like psience said.

Aerials - what psience said. haha

But I never said anything...

 

[Chuee]

Lol, my one scrub kirby friend pretty much only does that and Johns about my D-smash complaining that he wishes he had one that good. His way of fighting rolling and grabbing... phail



But I never said anything...

I hate kirbys that Dair to Fsmash all the time. So ****ing annoying.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Sheild the D-air and jab?...

Anyway, back to topic. Approaches.

What do you guys think we should try to approach with / how would we mix it up against him. Also what would he approach w/?

 

[Rachmaninav89]

yea i take that back. chu245 said stuff on that. sorry haha.

 

[~Nasty~]

Sheild the D-air and jab?...

Anyway, back to topic. Approaches.

What do you guys think we should try to approach with / how would we mix it up against him. Also what would he approach w/?

thanks for the dthrow >Utilt percents.

as for approaches, we shouldn't be trying to approach too too much. if he approaches us, there's always the option of wavebouncing a PKF. if he starts to read u and runs at u and perfect shields, or if he just runs at u and shields w/out you even shooting a pkf just grab him.

 

[Chuee]

Next character. We're pretty much done with D3.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

DDD Stage Discussion

 

[Jupz]

Ban - Delfino (not sure how good Lucas is at RC)
Choose - Brinstar? Norfair?

 

[Tokaio]

I would say
Strike FD and ??
CP Norfair, JJ
Ban Castle Siege


EDIT: I'm not so sure on Brinstar. The terrain can mess up his chaingrab, but he can kill easily on this stage. Castle Siege because of the 2nd phase. In delfino, at least you can avoid the walk off phases, because there's usually higher/lower ground.

 

[heytallman]

I would strike FD and Battlefield. Although Stadium 1 (where legal) could provide problems because of the wall that comes up sometimes, but people generally don't play there much. I'd probably try and hope for Smashville for the first stage.

As for CP's, Norfair works great (if it's legal), and I would probably take DDD players to brinstar more often than anything. Japes is also a REALLY good CP against DDD (provided you know the stage).

Ban Castle siege, pictochat, FD, or whatever else.

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

I disagree with banning Castle Siege unless you think it's too hard to run from D3 for 30 seconds on that second transformation.

I agree with JJ and Norfair as CP options. Haven't tried Brinstar against DDD before.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

It's also a bad Lucas stage...

That transformation is the only good Lucas part because he can PKT camp... so I'll just leave it under nothing...

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

It's also a bad Lucas stage...

That transformation is the only good Lucas part because he can PKT camp... so I'll just leave it under nothing...

How is CS a bad Lucas stage?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Notes about Castle Siege - Watch out for the edges on the 1st phase. They mess with Lucas' recovery. On the 2nd phase, the walk-offs are deadly for Lucas. They can automatically lead to a death because of his laggy ground break, and chaingrabbers. The pillars block Lucas so it prevents him from camping, but you can D-Smash them for some mindgames, as they extend the duration of the hitbox. Try platform camping while occasionally PK firing. On the 3rd phase, the tilting becomes an issue with recovery and autocancelling. Overall, a bad stage for Lucas.

That's why...

 

[heytallman]

I have never had problems with the ledges on the first part, nor on the third. The second part is a problem for chars like DDD, but you can camp up top for a while.

It's not a GREAT Lucas stage, but it's not bad either.

edit: PA I totally thought of you when I recommended Japes lol <3 <3 <3 <3

Let's hug it out at HOBO 20 or whenever we next see each other.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

So to confirm:

Strike: Final Destination, PS1 or Battlefield (depending on region)
Ban: Any long stage, walk off or stage w/ walls
Counterpick: Norfair, Jungle Japes, Brinstar

edit: PA I totally thought of you when I recommended Japes lol <3 <3 <3 <3

Let's hug it out at HOBO 20 or whenever we next see each other.

O.o?

 

[~Nasty~]

So to confirm:

Strike: Final Destination, PS1 or Battlefield (depending on region)
Ban: Any long stage, walk off or stage w/ walls
Counterpick: Norfair, Jungle Japes, Brinstar

imma have to disagree about BF unless someone can convince me otherwise. YI messes up our recover much more and i just don't like that stage. (the last part of that sentence is irrelevant) lol

BF is a bad stage for D3, is it not?... DDD hates platforms bc Bair camping is a bit more difficult. His recovery can also be messed up if he doesn't cancel his upB to grab the ledge. Say for instance you are on a platform and he uses his upB and doesn't cancel it for whatever reason. He lands on the platform but you already fell through it and you Usmash him in his landing lag.

If this stage keeps D3 on the ground, all we have to worry about is CG's and tilts. If we are on a platform and he is below us we can get surprise Dsmashes on him. Risky, but rewarding.

And what do u guys think about Halberd as a CP? Maybe it's not the best bc we do have better options, but if he bans Brinstar bc he knows the MU, then take him here. (provided Norfair and JJ are banned already like they are in my region). There are no walls, there are no walk offs, it's not that large except for the part that's stopped, and there is a center platform to keep him from Bair camping us.

This is just my opinion and it's subject to change upon debate. Or you can just ignore everything i said, lol.. doesn't matter to me.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Man it must suck to have Japes banned where you are... alright so just PS1 for strike or PS1 and Yoshi's?

 

[ZMan]

d3 likes halberd. low ceiling = early utilt kills.

really any super outlandish cp you can think of will wokr against d3

the striking prosess against d3 goes you strike yoshi, he strikes bf, you strike fd/ps1, he strikes smashville. so you're either gonna fight on fd or ps1. id rather take him to fd so we don't get infinited.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

d3 likes halberd. low ceiling = early utilt kills.

really any super outlandish cp you can think of will wokr against d3 That doesn't have walls

I fixed it for you

 

[~Nasty~]

Man it must suck to have Japes banned where you are... alright so just PS1 for strike or PS1 and Yoshi's?

yes, yes it does suck. lol. And i'd say strike both IMO. YI sucks. haha

 

[Tyr_03]

Dedede's favor. 60:40 atleast. Probably worse.

How to win: Get inside his range and combo the **** out of him. Our game relies on momentum. Get a good read to kill him at like 200% or something ******** like that.

I'd take him to Brinstar or Rainbow Cruise. But just because I like those stages. Maybe Japes if I was feeling risky. That stage always feels like a crapshoot to me.

I'd probably ban Castle Siege. I can deal with Delfino or Pictochat if I have to. I hate Castle Siege.

 

[Jupz]

Delfino will be our first counterpick followed by Halberd. Take us to brinstar.

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

That's why...

Thanks. I have little to no Castle Siege Experience. =P

edit: PA I totally thought of you when I recommended Japes lol <3 <3 <3 <3

Let's hug it out at HOBO 20 or whenever we next see each other.

Done, and done. I remember when people used to ban Brinstar against me. Now they ban Japes EVERY time. Guess I get to use Brinstar again.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Kirby discussion starts now!

 

[heytallman]

Gnes told me once, a long time ago, when he mained Kirby, that he didn't like the Kirby/Lucas matchup.

However I think Kirby wins, slightly. I have no facts to back this up.

 

[Chuee]

Even.
Will give reasons later.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I nearly always face Lucas, for some reason a lot of people around me loves using him, lol. Anyways it's an upchill battle to me, with Lucas's set up's to his F-Smash and sometimes his unexpected D-Smash. Sadly Lucas can be gimped hard with Kirby, and might die by his D-Air or B-Air if not careful when coming back, sometimes Stone when he uses his PK Thunder, (or if you face someone that knows how to use Stone really well, a rarity). Watch out for Kirby's strings, most of his strings start up's is when he throws you, sometimes it starts with U-Tilt, or U-Air, as you know, strings can lead to some awful after damage for example 0%-40%+ if your not careful. Most of Kirby's killing blows would be F-Smash, B-Air, D-Air, (when conditions are right), Down-B, (when conditions are right), and Air Hammer. ☆

☆ Stage picks, I won't get too in depth with stages yet, but I'll say that Lucas will do better in Battlefield, Luigi's Mansion Norfair, Halberd vs Kirby. Try not to take Kirby to Yoshi's Island, Frigate Orpheon, Lylat Cruise, or Jungle Japes. ☆

☆ Match up wise, I'll say either even or slightly Kirby's favor due to gimping. ☆

 

[Jester Kirby]

Lucas is very interesting to fight imo. If the Kirby is slow, you're canbclled aerials should work nicely. However, Kirby is going to shut you down with his B-air trump card if he's good at spaceing, so I'd suggest abuseing your ground game. Kirby is a close range fighter, so PK Fire will be your main edge here. Unlike Ness, you don;t have a super killer throw so the Kirby won't hesitate to stay in your face. Luca's F-smash comes out fast though and can KO Kirby very early in the matchup, and if you manage to hit the upsmash...ouch...be carefull with it though b/c charging it below him is asking to get stoned. On stage it's a fairley even fight, just stick to your guns and try not ot get grabed early on...Lucas is one of the more comboable characters.

Offstage, try to recover high and try to avoid useing your PK thunder. If you;re knocked high up from DIing Kirby'sF-smash then you can use your PK fire to Down-B trick. If you;re forced to PK thunder recover put some distance and try to mix up where you. If Kirby gets you where he wants you to be offstage then you're pretty much done.

I'd say 55:45 Kirby

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I like to magnet stall to make sure he doesn't get momentum in the MU. Kirby's F-smash pushes him forward so it should be easy to punish if he whiffs, but it also has a ton of range. Obviously Kirby is an aerial fighter and we're a ground fighter so we're going to want to keep it on the ground. Obviously we're going to not get grabbed (I swear that's the biggest part of Lucas' meta-game) Lucas players are already adapted to not getting grabbed. I'm definitely going to look at some frame stuff soon.

 

[Tokaio]

Yea, don't get grabbed if you're in really low percents. Kirby has D-throw -->Utilt, and F-throw --> U-air which can sometimes lead to a U-tilt --> Bair. Lucas does fine against Kirby when he's on stage. Basically, the only good approach Kirby has is Bair. Kirby doesn't have many vertical kill moves. Off stage is where it's at a disadvantage. Because of his multiple jumps, he can gimp him pretty easily. I wouldn't take him to a place where he can shark (i.e. Halberd, Delfino)

55:45 imo

 

[Chuee]

No one is going to gimp us by knocking us back. Lucas PKT2 goes incredibly far. Kirby can't go out far enough to where our PKT2 won't get us back.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Yeah, only meta-knight can do that ...

It reminds me of when my friend used Pit against me and ended up having to kill himself in order for me to die... it was hilarious. So yeah, we're not Ness.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

How does our ground games compare and how can we punish his approaches...

 

[Chuee]

I think our ftilt outranges his grab.