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The Louisiana Thread: Flarefox Forever - We are alive.

Nikz0r

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They say 60:40, but sometimes it's a little different than that. Lol. Sometimes it's an understatement, sometimes it's an overstatement. Example, D3 has 40:60 against Olimar but playing against Eric's Olimar wasn't terrible. I mean, he still won and I see the advantage but it wasn't a big one. But against IC, it definitely doesn't feel like a 40:60 in IC's favor. So that somewhat negates my last statement as well. Lol. XD

But what kind of cords do you need, Vaughn? Does it require GBA cables of some sort?? If so I can get one or two if they're not too expensive. >.> Lol.

I feel sad I didn't get to hang with ya this weekend, guys. T_T
 

FakeGeorge

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
460
Location
Louisiana
Four Swords? Can I get in on that?

Good job, Lee.

Also, as of now, I'm not going to ban Metaknight unless MLG picks up Brawl and bans him. I think with enough time and effort people will learn to beat Metaknight. I may be wrong, but nothing I've read/ seen has convinced me to ban him. We'll see what future tournaments and tactics show us.

Oh yeah, Gameware this Friday!!
 

Mocha19

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
202
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
It requires GBA connectors to your GBA's. As of now we have 2 GBA's and 2 connectors, so we'll need a few more of both to have an entire party. They're not in print anymore I don't think, but now that time has passed by since my last laptop was stolen, I'll go check ebay and see.
 

Nikz0r

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It requires GBA connectors to your GBA's. As of now we have 2 GBA's and 2 connectors, so we'll need a few more of both to have an entire party. They're not in print anymore I don't think, but now that time has passed by since my last laptop was stolen, I'll go check ebay and see.
Ooooooh, you're talking about the Four Swords for GBA then... I thought we were talking about one for Gamecube... Lol. Maybe we should look into that one instead? XD

Edit: Aaaaaaaaaand then I read you need GBA and connectors for multiplayer on the GCN one... 'doh!

Double Edit: Tabuu for top tier. D= Teleportation explosion can kill a METAL Wolf at 30% on intense mode. XD
 

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Baton Rouge
Texas Smash is so much better than us. We need to step it up. I might start hosting weeklies. Monthlies won't get us caught up. They have so much more diverse character usage. I fought so many characters that I had never even played against before against a good player, that I had no clue what to do. For me, it was increasingly lame, since I use a mainstay of the tournament scene [Snake.] Everyone knows how to fight Snake, and so to not know how to fight X character meant I was going to get pretty much owned. Since the pools were only two matches, by the time I had everything sorted out to beat them, it was too late.

The venue was loud as ****.
In other news, the Venue was waaaaaaaaaay too loud. I had a constant headache anytime I stayed inside for more than ten minutes. Piping announcements to every speaker was FOR THE FAIL. Then whoever had the great idea of piping the Meta Knight vs Meta Knight dittos [also known as the finals] through the entire building needs to be shot. I would have played more friendlies, but I spent most of the time either walking aimlessly outside, or sleeping in Pierre's car.
Tomorrow, I'll decide if I'm having Mk banned or not. Lee suffered at the tournament already due to us have no good MKs for him to play against, so I don't know if it's fair to him, but at the same time, we suffered at the tournament because we weren't used to playing the other random characters they had there. Lee ***** us too hard.
 

-Ran

Smash Master
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Feb 16, 2008
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Baton Rouge
I take it back, I talked with Sachi about it. Even from her view, MK should be banned.

So...


META KNIGHT IS BANNED AT THE NEW ORLEANS MONTHLIES
 

HolyChef

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
500
Location
Pensacola, FL; Jersey City, NJ
wow. is this tourney the first in the country to ban mk? straight history in the making son.

this is gonna be so epic. first tourney in the country with mk ban + cinnamon.

edit. italys gay for being first in the world to use the ban
 

Lee Martin

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
927
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
wtf. i think you should have talked it over with more people. (no offense sachi.) i know you dont like mk but dammmmm. i dont care if he's banned or not, it just seems like you could have gotten more opinions. or just made a simple louisiana poll.

*edit* the only thing that Would bother me about your deciding to ban mk is that hes the only character ive really been working on in the past few months. so ill have to do some serious training with my lucario.

ALSO TAYLOR and all melee players. im thinking of hosting a melee fest/tourney this weekend at the house(me pierre and chads) id like to get some more melee tournaments again so hopefully some people may get back into the scene. me and pierre have been playing melee a LOT bc its just too good. No i dont think melee is better than brawl or brawl is better than melee. I actually really like both. Just depends if im tired/lazy. or hyped up i guess. but if you would be interested in more melee or would like to stop by the house, let me know.
 

-Ran

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wtf. i think you should have talked it over with more people. (no offense sachi.) i know you dont like mk but dammmmm. i dont care if he's banned or not, it just seems like you could have gotten more opinions. or just made a simple louisiana poll.
I talked with: Chad Lee, Pierre, Ricky B, Cyphus, Sudai, and you. I also talked with a ton of random people at the tournament that we were at, and I've been in the various threads regarding the Meta knight discussions. I'm probably even forgetting half the people I've talked to. @.@

MK is still going to be allowed at the Baton Rouge tournaments, unless that changes in the future. If people don't want to come to the tournament, that's fine. Like I said in another thread:

The ban needs to start somewhere. If individuals feel that it needs to happen, stop waiting for a back room to make the choice. Convince the players in your circle about it, and then decide from there. Stop complaining about not having Back Room access, and impact the community. Most debates reach a saturation point where action is the only solution. Meta Knight debate has reached that point.
This ban isn't done without thought.

edit:
Lee, you're good with enough characters. This isn't done to mess you over. You know that I <3 you.
 

Lee Martin

Smash Ace
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Dec 22, 2005
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927
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Baton Rouge, LA
okay. even though im the only mk player in la. but he's banned. i wouldnt care if we had more mk's but im the only one. dj doesnt even play him anymore. but its fine. i have a different main in mind.
 

sHy)(gUy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
558
Location
Metairie LA
the problem with banning metaknight is now snake will become too dominate.... its not really fair too lee or anyone else thats been playing metaknight..... metaknight isnt broken, therefore not ban worthy....

I think it should be left up to the backroom....
 

Sudai

Stuff here
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Feb 14, 2006
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7,026
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Baton Rouge, Louisiana
sudai is still logged in here so im not gonig to change it~

and before i get flamed:

i dont play brawl. i dont compete. i dont care if MK gets banned. i have an opinion on him being banned but i havent come to a final conclusion. i see both sides of the argument well. even though i have an opinion on if he should or should not be banned, i still dont care if it happens.

now:

being up in the air on the topic, i think he shouldnt be banned because theres no definite reason to be banned yet. i could change my mind tomorrow but thats how i feel now. i still dont care tho.

no offense to pierre, ricky b, or sachi, but without a detailed view of smash, particularly brawl, i dont think their opinion is relevant at all. as lee said a long time ago, a great grasp on melee will give u a good grasp on brawl even if u dont play it. i consider myself a top player in both games i just dont have fun with brawl so dont play it, though i have done my fair share of experimenting with it. i talked to sudai this weekend and he said he doesnt know if mk should be banned either. i just think its unfair to the smashers that want to keep him. i understand you talked to alot of people, but people who won't be at this tourney (i.e. texas), especially dont matter, and if you're not taking EVERYONE's opinion into account, then the opinions of the lesser players that you're friends with shouldnt count either. i agree with lee in that a vote should be taken. i think the day of the tournament you should let everyone entering put down their vote when they sign up and go with that. i really dont see any other way of doing it. i would say we could do a SBR kind of discussion but that would just be alot of text where all us boys just say what we want to say and dont get anywhere, then you decide because it's your tournament. i mean, i wont be at this tourney, im just trying to watch out for this smash community i helped create.

dont bother responding to this. take it to heart, or with a grain of salt; your choice. i dont read the big discussions on things anymore, i only check the boards for funny stuff and to see what my friends have to say that isnt a giant block of text (like this). i just got a little concerned when i saw the big red letters and your first supporting argument was u and your gf agreed (NO offense. i think ur a really cool guy).

sigh... idk why im actually concerned about this.

-TAYLOR
 

Le_THieN

Smash Lord
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Shine Blockaz Central
I decided to check out this thread after Mr. Ran cordially invited a bunch of us Texans to an upcoming tournament you guys are hosting at the end of the month. I'm considering making the trip if I can engender enough interest from some of my other crew-mates to attend with me, but I'm making no promises right now.

As far as your experimental ban on Meta Knight goes... *shrug* It had to start somewhere. I'm not necessarily for or against striking MK from tournament play at the moment since I recently experienced a pivotal nirvana of sorts with the match-up (actually, it occurred yesterday at HOBO 11), but I can't say for sure how much water my personal experience holds exactly. To be completely honest though, there won't be very much love lost if the banning of Meta Knight eventually becomes a nationwide phenomenon in the coming months.

The only thing that makes me wary about the implementation of this ban is that, according to Lee, the player demographics in Louisiana don't seem to really match some of the other more reputable Brawl-playing states in the country. An experimental power move with far-reaching and long-lasting ramifications like banning the best character in a fighting game would make a great deal more sense at an event like HOBO 11 in Houston, TX, where the tournament was literally overrun by MK mains ranging in skill. The last two HOBOs has seen MK mains/users dominate at least half of both tournaments' Top 10 finishes. Banning MK in Louisiana, by contrast, sounds like you would only be putting Lee (The Good One) at a disadvantage. The issue that LA doesn't necessarily support that kind of dominant Meta Knight demography may appear overly simple, but it will probably become enough of a glaringly fundamental problem that it ends up invalidating the entire effort.

Of course, you'll have to correct any information that I might have wrong.

On a slightly related tangent: I already mentioned this in my shoutouts in the tournament results thread, but highly enjoyed the one friendly match we managed to get in, Lee. That single match was one of the rare occasions that I actually enjoyed playing a authentically talented MK main, and I was really impressed at how quickly you managed to acclimate yourself to a match-up you admitted to not having any experience with. I would like to cordially invite you and any other Louisiana Smashers to the upcoming OH SNAP! tournament I'm hosting in November. Most of all the important people you played last night from Texas will be on hand (as you'll be able to see for yourself with the roll call list I have up on the first post), and I want to attract as much high-level talent from out-of-state as possible. Lemme know what you think.

Pee Es: Do any of you guys know Yawara/Sars Pirate?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
i met yawara a long time ago when he found me to play melee xD... then he moved away.

will you have melee at this, oh snap?

and lee, this weekend doesnt work for me to attend a melee fest. with everyone in BR friday night (which i am off friday), ill be hanging, but work will stop me from going anywhere saturday.
 

Sudai

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*shakes his head at MK being banned*

Our piddly tournaments are -not- the place to test banning MK. We have ONE good MK. This won't show anything. -0-

I'm on the fence about banning him overall, but there's seriously no point in banning him in LA at the momment. Eyes aren't on Louisiana. Even if they were, our top 10 aren't filled with MK just because we have one good one so even then, it still wouldn't make a difference. All I can see this doing is drawning negative attention to us. Too late to take it back too now. Half of smash boards knows already.

Good game, Ran.
 

Nikz0r

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I really hope this wasn't also just a "Let's be the first to do it!" type thing so much as a logical thing to do... Sudai/Lee/Taylor/Vaughn make good points, with Lee our only viable MK, it just hurts him. That and it really doesn't seem like it's time to do that yet, if it's even in the cards for the future. I can't really add much more but to say I think we should think about and discuss things further...
 

PK Thunder

Smash Rookie
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May 17, 2008
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10
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Shreveport, LA
MK has no bad matchups. Even counterpicks like DK and Lucario are still unfavorable. Most people are going to stop bothering with their chosen mains and just *word for a woman who likes to sleep around* Meta to win tourney if this keeps happening nationwide. This just sucks for people like Lee who have great Metas but get overshadowed by the stigma against the character, a character which is admittedly OP.
 

Cyphus

BRoomer
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Aug 11, 2002
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Austin, TX
lee plays brawl alot. he's good with 1/3rd the character and hes good enough to win without MK.
He has Snake, Falco, Zamus, Ike, Sonic that he can go even with me- and i'm sure at least with everyone else.
Fighting MK makes me hate the game more and more, and i'm not hte only one like this.
I dont even think he has to be "broken" to be banned, he just has to be hated enough. Its rule my majority. We dont make rules to be fair (in which case we'd just say Capt.Falcon only only FD)..we make the rules to keep the community happy, because competitive smash is built from the bottom up...and amateurs are just as important as pros, because they make the pot and they make tournaments even possible.
 

jiovanni007

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META KNIGHT IS BANNED AT THE NEW ORLEANS MONTHLIES
Wow...I go to sleep for 12 hours and this nugget of epicism gets dropped? Wish I was up last night to rant about it with everyone else, but I'm not surprised. No need for everyone to get upset, but this ban was necessary. If it proves to be incorrect (i.e. another character dominating in MK fashion) then the ban would get lifted. Like I said before, its not like other games haven't done such things before. SCIV is a recent one, also the Tekken series can never seem to make a game without a character that needs to be banned and they seem to be pretty balanced IMO.

Also, I may sound like a hypocrite at first for saying this, but you need to read my entire rant before you can come to conclusions. The Smash Bros series was never meant to be a competitive series. Sakurai has stated many times that he only wants to see people have fun in his games. Like life however, a video game is what you make it. SSB64 had a standardized ruleset and thus people began to make it a competitive matter. SSBM didn't stop the thirst for competitive smash, it only increased the community's appetite with its large amount of controversial ATs. Next comes Brawl. It was supposed to be Sakurai's answer to competition. It was supposed to be the ultimate party game. Instead, we that thirst for competition are still able to standardize the ruleset to our liking. Competitive is still thriving throughout the nation.

The point that I'm making here is that intentions of the creator don't matter. The game developers have the responsibility to satisfy all gamers. Many of you think that Sakurai may have ignored the competitive segment of the smash community when he released Brawl. He didn't. If he did ignore us, there would be no item switch, there would be no random stage switch, there would be no option for 2 player fights, and there would be much less diversity in this game. Sakurai speaks contrary to what he does. He says he doesn't like competition but in every single smash game, he includes the tools to standardize matches. Until the day comes when we are forced to play with items on random stages, I won't give up on competitive smash at all.

Some things are just harder to accomplish than others. Street Fighter fans had it VERY easy. Capcom realized with SFII that they had a game on its hands that was very big in the competitive community and made efforts to satisfy them and at the same time satisfy people who preferred to sit at home and throw hadokens all day. Regardless of whether or not the motion to ban MK is liked, it was obviously necessary. With this massive uproar in the community, maybe Skaurai will eventually stop satisfying the competitive smashers in subtle ways and finally give us something that we want. This move is necessary for us to grow as a community. Meta Knight too good. He discourages new players.

Also, slippery slope logic doesn't work in this scenario. In case you haven't heard, Snake has counters. MK has none. Anyone saying MK has disadvantages is probably looking at Ivaneva's outdated match-up chart which still has Kirby as being at a disadvantage against Falco. Not sure where exactly I heard this, but the only time MK is at a disadvantage is when fighting Diddy on FD (and possibly smashville). The thing is that in fact there are probably about 37 other characters that are at a disadvantage when fighting Diddy on FD so this logic doesn't work that well. A character with no counters and still disputed neutrals (55-45 is still considered neutral though slightly in his favor) is just unfair. When fighting MK, you can't just be marginally better than your opponent to win, you have to be considerably better. A character that is going to make the better player lose unless they pick them is obviously breaking the game.

/rant

Also my anatomy professor is evil and eats souls for breakfast.
 

Mocha19

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
202
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
This game has relied way too much on counter-picking. For a long time I have seriously believed that without people's faith in winning from using top tiers and counter-picking, most players would indeed just suck without them. Last time I checked, this game was not about counter-picking, but the skill of the players. I've made the exact same arguments about banning Marth in Melee because of his almost lack of counters, but I realized that people were actually getting better and he was essentially an actual counter to Zelda. People made fun of me for it. Well.. Now I'm gonna say EXACTLY what everyone said to me during that time.

"He's just a character!! Learn how to fight him!!"

GARY: Your argument concerning Street Fighter is completely fallacious. How do you know we had it easy? Have you ever PLAYED 3rd Strike? Yun, Chun-Li, and Ken are dominant. There is very little debate over this. Don't talk about something you have no idea about.
 

jiovanni007

Smash Ace
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792
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One big room, full of bad *****es
This game has relied way too much on counter-picking. For a long time I have seriously believed that without people's faith in winning from using top tiers and counter-picking, most players would indeed just suck without them. Last time I checked, this game was not about counter-picking, but the skill of the players. I've made the exact same arguments about banning Marth in Melee because of his almost lack of counters, but I realized that people were actually getting better and he was essentially an actual counter to Zelda. People made fun of me for it. Well.. Now I'm gonna say EXACTLY what everyone said to me during that time.

"He's just a character!! Learn how to fight him!!"

GARY: Your argument concerning Street Fighter is completely fallacious. How do you know we had it easy? Have you ever PLAYED 3rd Strike? Yun, Chun-Li, and Ken are dominant. There is very little debate over this. Don't talk about something you have no idea about.
Counter-picking? Pfft...if that was the case I would pick Pikachu every time I saw David and never pick Kirby knowing that he plays Snake but we both know I always somehow end up as Kirby. In case you're not as active in the Kirby boards as much as me, Snake was considered to be a 30:70 match at first and is now only very recently (as in 2 days ago) being petitioned to be moved to a 60:40.

As for the SF thing, true 3rd strike may more unbalanced than previous installments (and tournaments actually tend to go Yun, Chun, Yun, Yun, Ken, Chun, Yun, Chun, Chun) but Capcom clearly realized that it wanted to make the perfect fighter, so it may have looked as if it ignored the fans by not re-releasing 3rd Strike, but instead they actually brewed up possibly on of the greatest ideas in fighting game history in SFIV. An already meticulously balanced game (though not perfect as nothing is) with DLC and balancing patches? Sounds like SF fans do have it pretty easy. Actually I was confused by that comment because my name isn't Gary but you scrutinized my SF comment >.> It's Jared btw since we haven't become acquainted.

True you may need to learn how to fight a character, but what if that doesn't work? The first time I fought David's Snake, he very comfortably 2-stocked me. When we met Kirby v Snake at the last Gware, it went to the last stock with him ~130% and me not dieing until ~140%. But as far as MK goes, when does the madness stop? He's byfar the most represented character in tournaments and still puts up numbers. Obviously it isn't as easy as you're making it out to be to just "learn how to fight them" when it comes to MK. I almost feel disgust when I fight him. Such as before the last tournament when friendlies were going on, this one guy saw me massacre this other guy with Kirby. He hops in and immediately picks MK. Me seeing some common mistakes being made, decide I need to punish him. I take him power and proceed to Kirby-nado him to ~150% and ground hammer him...without him touching me. I do the exact same thing for his next 2 lives.

This guy obviously wasn't that good at the game and admitted to not being that good. My main john is the mentality that people have when coming into the game. I'm willing to bet that the person I did that to has no idea about MK except for the fact that he's from the Kirby series. I play Kirby because I frikkin love him. Sure he may have ended up high tier in this game, but from the first time I picked up that wiimote and nunchuck at gamestop, I knew who I spend most of my time playing as. The point I'm making here is that new people aren't even trying to diversify themselves. When someone tries to get into the game, they do a little research. They find out MK is the best and work with him. The thing is that guy I fought then had very little experience in Smash at all. The main example here is how Inui who doesn't play MK, trained with him for 2 weeks and took first in a tourney in NJ over some big names. From what I hear, the whole purpose for him to do that was just to show that MK is broken.

EDIT:
As much as I hate complaining, I have to let this out, MK is broken. There is no learning to be done. I'm literally disgusted with the way that Brawl is turning out and refuse to ever use MK again. All I have to do is point at the fact that MK absolutely dominates tournament standings and there is nothing that you can say to refute this. He obviously overcentralizes the metagame and must be stopped. Everything else I said may be refuted, but trying to nullify his massive tournament results is an exercise in futility.
 

Mocha19

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
202
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Baton Rouge, LA
Oh yeah.. And johning.. That's also what this game has evolved into. Sorry I just remembered it.

And your arguments for banning Metaknight are because he has no bad match-ups. Essential counters in other words.

And that Street Fighter comment was from BravoNavo, Gary. Not me.
 

BravoNavo

Smash Rookie
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Mar 19, 2008
Messages
2
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BR, LA
This is Gary.

Street Fighters have always been patched in the arcades. That still doesn't make them fully balanced.

Roll canceling was a glaring issue in Capcom vs. SNK 2. Many people argued that it should have been patched. But it was left in.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 has 56 available characters and very few are playable at high level. Does that stop it from being an exciting and competitive game?

I could bring up many, many more examples. But my point is that Capcom fans have the same problems as all other gamers. The Smash community wants to rebalnce the game to their own specification instead of playing and continually learning the game. For which there is still much learning to do.

Side Note: And 3rd Strike won't come out on XBLA for a long time. There just aren't enough fans for it. Most people don't even know there was a 3.
 

jiovanni007

Smash Ace
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792
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One big room, full of bad *****es
Oh yeah.. And johning.. That's also what this game has evolved into. Sorry I just remembered it.
lawl mature...

I don't really consider the MK argument to be johning at all considering the facts behind it and the serious future that will become depending on what happens.

Johning would me complaining that one time when Nick showed me the work (2-stock) with D3 though my character had the advantage and I had been playing with that particular character since launch. Instead I gave him props for that and still give him props on his D3.

I don't consider talking about a character who literally has no weaknesses to be johning. Its just not fair that picking a certain character puts someone at the advantage in every scenario. MK has no counters. He is miles above Snake since Snake actually has some pretty tough matches. The point I'm making isn't that you should be able to counterpick a character, its moreso that you shouldn't be able to pick a character and automatically be at the advantage in every single match-up except for Diddy on FD. MK player bans FD, MK now has no counters.

And that Street Fighter comment was from BravoNavo, Gary. Not me.
oh, Gary: = him speaking

Also, Lee is being quoted in the MK ban thread >.> LA startin drama

This is Gary.

Street Fighters have always been patched in the arcades. That still doesn't make them fully balanced.

Roll canceling was a glaring issue in Capcom vs. SNK 2. Many people argued that it should have been patched. But it was left in.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 has 56 available characters and very few are playable at high level. Does that stop it from being an exciting and competitive game?

I could bring up many, many more examples. But my point is that Capcom fans have the same problems as all other gamers.

Side Note: And 3rd Strike won't come out on XBLA for a long time. There just aren't enough fans for it. Most people don't even know there was a 3.
Don't play CvSNK so I can't speak on it. As far as MvC2 goes, I do play and in fact it is possible to do amazing things without the standard characters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u83LQ5G5kpE

Main example, Clops is mainly used to set up infinites, tiger jumps, etc. Also the most used characters in MvC2 are Mags, Storm, Sent, Cable, Strider+Doom, Spiral+Sent (though not as common anymore), Blackheart, and Iron Man. That's 8 out of 56 as opposed to the dominance of 1 of 36
 

Mocha19

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
202
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
Its just not fair that picking a certain character puts someone at the advantage in every scenario. MK has no counters. He is miles above Snake since Snake actually has some pretty tough matches. The point I'm making isn't that you should be able to counterpick a character, its moreso that you shouldn't be able to pick a character and automatically be at the advantage in every single match-up except for Diddy on FD. MK player bans FD, MK now has no counters.
Like I said.. Counter-picking..

Metaknights have rated fights that are neutral or around neutral for him. One of those IS Snake. That should be enough.

Edit: Also PKThunder's quote:

"MK has no bad matchups. Even counterpicks like DK and Lucario are still unfavorable. Most people are going to stop bothering with their chosen mains and just *word for a woman who likes to sleep around* Meta to win tourney if this keeps happening nationwide. This just sucks for people like Lee who have great Metas but get overshadowed by the stigma against the character, a character which is admittedly OP."

All of your arguments are the same.
 

jiovanni007

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Like I said.. Counter-picking..

Metaknights have rated fights that are neutral or around neutral for him. One of those IS Snake. That should be enough.
You misunderstood, I wasn't saying that you should be able to counterpick MK, I'm saying that people who play as MK have no weaknesses. No matter what, if you fight MK you will be at a disadvantage unless you are MK. This will eventually lead to people who actually want to win to pick MK more often since he gives the greatest chance of winning. This will eventually lead to the entire metagame being based around the top players playing as MK. Whenever something overcentralizes the metagame, it must be forcibly removed to keep the metagame itself from dieing.

The Snake match-up is 55-45 which can be ruled either neutral or slight advantage.
 

BravoNavo

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Don't play CvSNK so I can't speak on it. As far as MvC2 goes, I do play and in fact it is possible to do amazing things without the standard characters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u83LQ5G5kpE

Main example, Clops is mainly used to set up infinites, tiger jumps, etc. Also the most used characters in MvC2 are Mags, Storm, Sent, Cable, Strider+Doom, Spiral+Sent (though not as common anymore), Blackheart, and Iron Man. That's 8 out of 56 as opposed to the dominance of 1 of 36
Yes, it is possible to do many of those techniques. These have been learned over the nearly 9 years since it's been released.

How many MvC2 characters have been banned?

I could have pulled up a video showing the amazing things DK has done in Brawl. But that doesn't rid these boards of the Metaknight debate. Likewise, your video doesn't disprove the fact that some characters in MvC2 are broken.
 

Mocha19

Smash Journeyman
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You misunderstood, I wasn't saying that you should be able to counterpick MK, I'm saying that people who play as MK have no weaknesses. No matter what, if you fight MK you will be at a disadvantage unless you are MK. This will eventually lead to people who actually want to win to pick MK more often since he gives the greatest chance of winning. This will eventually lead to the entire metagame being based around the top players playing as MK. Whenever something overcentralizes the metagame, it must be forcibly removed to keep the metagame itself from dieing.
You're complaining that Metaknight has no weaknesses, meaning you want him to have at least some sort of a counter.
 

jiovanni007

Smash Ace
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Yes, it is possible to do many of those techniques. These have been learned over the nearly 9 years since it's been released.

How many MvC2 characters have been banned?

I could have pulled up a video showing the amazing things DK has done in Brawl. But that doesn't rid these boards of the Metaknight debate. Likewise, your video doesn't disprove the fact that some characters in MvC2 are broken.
Those are the key words, as in multiple characters. Even so, its still very difficult to compare Brawl to MvC2. All of those character have disadvantages. One on one, no MvC2 has the dominance that MK has. That plus some of them have safe ways to bring in another character (not all since some DHCs aren't that great). Sentinel for example has his damage ration set to 75%, has the fastest fly speed, combos in the air like something crazy, and has normal attacks that cause chip damage. His drawbacks are that Mags can infinite the sh#t outta him and if he's not careful while flying, Cable tiger jumps him to death for the gg. MK is easily the closest thing to a perfect character in a video game that hasn't been banned.

You're complaining that Metaknight has no weaknesses, meaning you want him to have at least some sort of a counter.
No, I want the metagame of Brawl to be diverse. MK doesn't allow that to happen because it is revolving and evolving around him more and more since he has the greatest chance of winning due to not having any counters. It's a cause-effect type thing. As I said before I have no problem with fighting from losing ground as I play Kirby and have no problem fighting Snake players. I do have a problem with MK since he discourages positive growth in the smash community. MK literally causes people to quit playing smash.
 

BravoNavo

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Those are the key words, as in multiple characters. Even so, its still very difficult to compare Brawl to MvC2. All of those character have disadvantages. One on one, no MvC2 has the dominance that MK has. That plus some of them have safe ways to bring in another character (not all since some DHCs aren't that great). Sentinel for example has his damage ration set to 75%, has the fastest fly speed, combos in the air like something crazy, and has normal attacks that cause chip damage. His drawbacks are that Mags can infinite the sh#t outta him and if he's not careful while flying, Cable tiger jumps him to death for the gg. MK is easily the closest thing to a perfect character in a video game that hasn't been banned.
The following characters are all near perfect in their respective games:

Ken in Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
Akuma in Street Fighter Alpha 3
Toki in Hokuto no Ken
Old Sagat in Super Street Fighter II Turbo

The argument at hand is banning characters in a game that's only 7 months old. There were bits of info about 3rd Strike that weren't discovered until 2004. They made some characters much more playable.

My question is:

Why do you want to ban a character from such a relatively young game despite the fact that we're still learning about the game?
 

Mocha19

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MK doesn't allow that to happen because it is revolving and evolving around him more and more since he has the greatest chance of winning due to not having any counters.

MK literally causes people to quit playing smash.
See.. You did it again.. As long as this argument comes into play, I will treat it as a john. Just because a counter has not been discovered yet does not make him invincible and it means even less that he should be banned.

And while Metaknight might be making people quit smash, banning him will probably end up doing the same. A lot of people like smash FOR Metaknight. People like me quit because of the community, not particularly Metaknight.
 
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