The Little Witch of Diamond City - Ashley - The Witch retreats. For now.

[perfectchaos83]

Just putting this out there for the Ashley faithful, User KMDP has their own poll going on for Smash Ultimate that has a segment for assist trophy promotions. You know what to do~

Anyway, in regards to the twitter account, We should have some sort of production value to it. With like, a custom avatar and Banner. We shouldn't have to rely on stock images to get our point across, at least, not in the long run. I know Ashley for Smashley is used a lot, but I'm not sure if it's a phrase to rely on, but I guess it's something to iron out later.

 

[Euler23]

Yes, it's true that Nintendo has had a history of iffy marketing. But let's also remember that their marketing stunts back in the day are the reason we're even talking about video games in the 2010's, haha. And, more importantly, as far as WarioWare Gold's marketing has gone, it has seemingly matched the caliber of the game itself, I would say.

Their marketing on Gold actually was pretty good, close to and post-release at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfA50uMFaGA

This is more of a "tomato, tomato" case. Sure, 2D sidescrolling Mario took a break, but it was suspiciously around the time that 3D Mario was born, almost as if one was the natural progression of the other. You may see it as one successful series coming to a halt while another begins, but I see it as the series evolving in order to utilize the technology that was once unavailable.

And sure, if a sequel were to be made, there may not be as many characters or stages, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I personally would love to see the series reborn, trimming the fat on the roster, bringing in newcomers in their place, and presenting new ideas that there simply wasn't time to birth during games like Ultimate.

Technology improved, but 3D also made the gameplay very different - such that there are still many people that prefer 2D platformers and therefore two different markets came about once 2D platformers made their big comeback in the mid-2000s.

https://kotaku.com/5577352/the-revenge-of-2d

You might not mind a smaller roster, but I know a lot of people would be calling for Sakurai's head (literally in some cases, unfortunately) if their main character got cut.

That's why the jump from "Step 1: No Smashley" to "Step 2: Wario dies forever" is illogical, in my eyes.

Well, it's not a straight-line deterministic progression and there was another step (WarioWare Gold sells poorly) that you're missing. It was a worst-case scenario, not a best-case or even average-case one.

A couple of things here:

1) A second Smash Ballot is purely hypothetical. As a matter of fact, while I can't find it right now, I could've sworn that I read an article where Sakurai said he learned a lot from the Ballot, but doesn't intend to do another one any time soon. Even without a Ballot, there are plenty of avenues to show your support, though.

2) If a second Ballot were to happen, it would be remiss of Sakurai to say "rule number one: NO ASSIST TROPHIES!", considering so many of them are popular characters that Sakurai simply considered too low-priority for the time being (Krystal, Knuckles, Bomberman, Shovel Knight, Zero, Ashley, Waluigi, and Midna, just to name a few off the top of my head). If Sakurai loves money, and the consumers voted for an Assist Trophy, he would put them in, no questions asked.

Sakurai is an artist at the end of the day, not a businessman, and he has a lot of control over what gets in the game. Putting Goku in might be profitable, and 4Kids Entertainment says they would be on board, but it's doubtful he would ever do such a thing. Though I think he would be a lot less likely to say "nope, an Assist Trophy is an Assist Trophy and that's final" than to say Smash is only for video game characters. That being said, Assist Trophies might have a disadvantage on the ballot if they're perceived as non-viable.

I'm also skeptical of another ballot taking place, and I agree that online support will be very important for who gets in as DLC. As I said I think Ashley has a good shot if there is DLC and the "no Assist Trophies" rule isn't a thing (both of which are quite likely in my view). Nobody is a shoo-in though, and we'll have to work hard to grow the fanbase!

I was initially going to do an in-depth analysis of this one sentence, but to save time, I will just say this: I was referring to characters that could be considered "Nintendo All-Stars". You know the ones: the characters from successful franchises that show up all the time, and everyone likes them ... more or less. Some of these characters could certainly be considered slightly out of left field "popularity" choices, but I wouldn't call Isaac a "Nintendo All-Star". Also, Geno and Shadow aren't Nintendo characters.

Ashley is a likable character, especially in Japan (and, as we've learned recently, she even has a dedicated fanbase in the West, as well). As such, she is also marketable. And, while her series can be considered niche, it is a series with obvious staying power, considering it has appeared on every console since the GBA. Ashley has even gone on to ascend her home series, which rarely happens for minor characters. I think it's safe to say that she's among the Nintendo All-Stars.

Okay, I see what you mean now. And you got me on Shadow and Geno. Right, so we narrow it down to popular recurring first-party characters that aren't already in the game from relevant franchises with viable futures. In that case, Ashley is upper echelon (which is part of the reason why I thought she would be a good fit for Smash in the first place). But "Nintendo All-Stars" are not the only characters that get into Smash. We also get one-time Fire Emblem characters, new Pokemon, and third-party fighters among others.

In general, I agree with you, but as it relates to this particular game, I dunno. Literally every character so far is a popular pick. And it's not like we have a lot of them left. If he has a "left field" card up his sleeve, it probably should've been played sometime sooner, haha. When you start off with Inkling and Ridley, and work your way up to Simon Belmont and King K. Rool, expectations are only going to get higher. If he pulls some dorky character like Bubbles from Clu Clu Land (I love Bubbles, but you get the point) out of thin air at this point, I will admit, it will be kind of disappointing. The man is obviously consulting the Ballot like a sacred text. Just think about how he has described at least three characters as "popular choices" (Ridley, Chrom, and Dark Samus). Fan-favoritism is obviously playing a role.

No, he usually saves the novelty character for the end. Mr. Game & Watch is hidden in Melee until you unlock all of the other characters, and Duck Hunt wasn't announced until after Super Smash Bros. for 3DS had been released. But Bubbles is a good one!

 

[The Eternal Penguin]

Yo Smash Boards people, here is the invite to the Ashley discord for anyone who is interested.

https://discord.gg/73nCDG4

 

[Gameguy1996]

This is kinda off topic but then you will love the anime Ojamajo Doremi if you haven't watched it yet, it has that exact premise/characters.

I will put it on my to watch at some point list. I have a huge backlog of shows to watch so adding one more to the list never hurts.

The Big 3 has always been K. Rool, Ridley, and Mewtwo. This was started pre-Smash 4 and towards its launch seeing as Mewtwo was nowhere in sight until the 50 Fact Extravaganza.

The new Big 3 may include Geno if being 3rd party doesn't hurt hs chances in the fans eyes. I'd honestly say from looking at what people wanted. Ashley, Isaac, and Bandanna Dee seemed biggest.. but after the K. Rool reveal and the Ashley R.I.P..who knows..

I am curious to see who you all think the next Big 3 are?

Right now I would saw it's Geno, Dixie Kong and Bandana Waddle Dee. Geno being the big fan favorite like K Rool and Ridley, Dixie due to a good number of the K Rool fans supporting her now and some think she is the last all-star missing and I believe Bandana Waddle Dee was high on the Ballot at least in Japan.

 

[Dogtooth]

Just putting this out there for the Ashley faithful, User KMDP has their own poll going on for Smash Ultimate that has a segment for assist trophy promotions. You know what to do~

Anyway, in regards to the twitter account, We should have some sort of production value to it. With like, a custom avatar and Banner. We shouldn't have to rely on stock images to get our point across, at least, not in the long run. I know Ashley for Smashley is used a lot, but I'm not sure if it's a phrase to rely on, but I guess it's something to iron out later.

Did my part and voted Ashley : )

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I never was a strong advocate for Ashley as a Smash fighter, but it would've been nice to see her get in. She is still one of my favorite Wario characters. And while her support seemed rather minor back in Smash 4, I was surprised to see it become much more vocal for the latest game. It's nice to see the character has a much greater following around here than I had once realized.

It's late for me to say to it, but I'm sorry she didn't make the cut. Wishing you all the best of luck for any future endeavors, however far away they might be; may the young witch find her way onto a Smash roster someday.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Technology improved, but 3D also made the gameplay very different - such that there are still many people that prefer 2D platformers and therefore two different markets came about once 2D platformers made their big comeback in the mid-2000s.

https://kotaku.com/5577352/the-revenge-of-2d

You might not mind a smaller roster, but I know a lot of people would be calling for Sakurai's head (literally in some cases, unfortunately) if their main character got cut.

I agree that 2D and 3D Mario are certainly different experiences, but it's still Mario. If Smash ends and simply ports Ultimate to everything Skyrim-style, then that could potentially be as controversial as Smash 6 serving as a sort of reboot with a smaller/drastically different roster, as there is no substitute/ successor.

And, this isn't really a "debate" point, so much as just conversation, but it isn't necessarily that I want a smaller roster. Rather, I see quite a few of the veterans as "fat" that could be trimmed to make way for even more newcomers. I know that literally every character has its fans, which is why Sakurai is bringing everyone back this go-around, but I think it would be interesting to see a sequel that reverses the development of Ultimate; rather than focus primarily on veterans and then focus on a few newcomers later, Smash 6 could bring in an integral base of veterans, along with a sizable number of newcomers, and then focus on other veterans as DLC, if need be.

Sakurai is an artist at the end of the day, not a businessman, and he has a lot of control over what gets in the game. Putting Goku in might be profitable, and 4Kids Entertainment says they would be on board, but it's doubtful he would ever do such a thing. Though I think he would be a lot less likely to say "nope, an Assist Trophy is an Assist Trophy and that's final" than to say Smash is only for video game characters. That being said, Assist Trophies might have a disadvantage on the ballot if they're perceived as non-viable.

I agree. And, sure, you could apply what I said to "Goku in Smash" to point out the argument's flaws, but, as you said, comparing a first-party character who is already in the game (just as a summon instead of a playable character) to a non-video game character on whom Sakurai has made his stance known might be a bit wonky, haha. A playable Assist Trophy wouldn't jeopardize the point of Smash Bros. as much as a playable anime character.

I'm also skeptical of another ballot taking place, and I agree that online support will be very important for who gets in as DLC. As I said I think Ashley has a good shot if there is DLC and the "no Assist Trophies" rule isn't a thing (both of which are quite likely in my view). Nobody is a shoo-in though, and we'll have to work hard to grow the fanbase!

Amen, haha. Until Sakurai announces "Good news! DLC is coming! BUT ASSIST TROPHY CHARACTERS WILL NEVER HAPPEN! GET REAL, KID!", we have nothing to lose. And even if he does announce that, we have the hypothetical Smash sequel in a decade or so to work towards.

Okay, I see what you mean now. And you got me on Shadow and Geno. Right, so we narrow it down to popular recurring first-party characters that aren't already in the game from relevant franchises with viable futures. In that case, Ashley is upper echelon (which is part of the reason why I thought she would be a good fit for Smash in the first place). But "Nintendo All-Stars" are not the only characters that get into Smash. We also get one-time Fire Emblem characters, new Pokemon, and third-party fighters among others.

I was actually going to talk about that in my novella responding to you, haha. I think that Fire Emblem characters are potential "Nintendo All-Stars", as well. Since the series has that Final Fantasy-esque "one-off" structure to it, it's hard to apply the same expectations as you would for, say, Mario. But we know that recurring characters like Marth, Ike, Tiki, and Anna are up there, considering they keep showing up. And Pokemon ... is Pokemon, haha. The series might run parallel of just about every other Nintendo property, but I'd be hard-pressed to not deem a character that Game Freak/The Pokemon Company/Nintendo wants to push a "Nintendo All-Star".

That leaves us with retro characters and third-parties, the former of which are just Sakurai wild cards, and the latter I try not to think about, haha.

But yeah, that's why I'm optimistic about Ashley's future in Smash. At this rate, just about any of Ashley's competition is probably going to be in the game, so next go-around (or maybe even for DLC), she could be Smash 6's next Inkling, so long as WarioWare stays afloat (which I'm optimistic about), or assuming Ashley gets a spin-off (which I'm slightly less optimistic about, but I guess it could happen).

No, he usually saves the novelty character for the end. Mr. Game & Watch is hidden in Melee until you unlock all of the other characters, and Duck Hunt wasn't announced until after Super Smash Bros. for 3DS had been released. But Bubbles is a good one!

This is true. But, considering the "fan-favorite" nature of literally every newcomer thus far, it would be disappointing to finish off with "And last, but not least *drum roll* ... BUBBLES FROM CLU CLU LAND!" Under any other circumstances, I would get excited for Bubbles (or a retro rep of any sort), but I sort of just want to hurry up and usher in all the fan-favorites that people have been waiting for since Melee/Brawl so that we can start a new era of Smash speculation, one where Ashley's likelihood isn't outshined by people still worrying about Isaac a decade plus after the death of his series.

 

[Samcrumpit]

Just putting this out there for the Ashley faithful, User KMDP has their own poll going on for Smash Ultimate that has a segment for assist trophy promotions. You know what to do~

Anyway, in regards to the twitter account, We should have some sort of production value to it. With like, a custom avatar and Banner. We shouldn't have to rely on stock images to get our point across, at least, not in the long run. I know Ashley for Smashley is used a lot, but I'm not sure if it's a phrase to rely on, but I guess it's something to iron out later.

And done. I also gave support to our sisters Kat and Ana. I just wish there was a way to add another 'other' character for Mona.

 

[Dogtooth]

Seems like the people of reddit are warming up to Ashley. Many people on a particular thread are thinking she is a lock for DLC or smash 6. It warms my heart : )
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/..._are_the_active_first_party_series_with_only/
Keep on spreading the positivity and remember to occasionally bring up Ashley when the situation asks for it, but don’t bombard people with Ashley posts. Let’s keep it coming : )

 

[Cabbagehead]

Seems like the people of reddit are warming up to Ashley. Many people on a particular thread are thinking she is a lock for DLC or smash 6. It warms my heart : )
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/..._are_the_active_first_party_series_with_only/
Keep on spreading the positivity and remember to occasionally bring up Ashley when the situation asks for it, but don’t bombard people with Ashley posts. Let’s keep it coming : )

It seems like everyone over there - whether due to actual character interest or just an outsider's understanding of WarioWare - is coming to grips with Ashley's status as a breakout character waiting to happen. A lot of them are inquiring about her in spite of her disconfirmation, and a lot of others are bringing up other Wario characters purely because Ashley was disconfirmed, so it seems to me that she isn't really falling out of grace because of the whole AT thing.

There was one person who mentioned that he thought Ashley was overhyped, and while I am inclined to somewhat agree, hype for a character can sometimes be the push that Sakurai needs. If this train continues in this direction, I'm sure we'll see Ashley in Smash Bros. at some point. I'm sure of it. Whether or not it's DLC is my biggest concern, but even if she isn't DLC for Ultimate, then she's gotta be a lock for Smash 6, assuming she continues to be a frequently-utilized character.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I am curious to see who you all think the next Big 3 are?

Bandana Dee, Ashley, and Geno. (Though I think Shantae is a runner-up right now, seeing as the SK assist shows that indies are possible, and that caused speculation to go up.)
-Bandana Dee, because he is probably most wanted in Japan right now, and I doubt that'll change until he is included. Also he is fairly popular everywhere else, and doesn't show up anywhere yet (especially Dedede's FS), which caused a bit of speculation.
-Ashley, because she is probably the fastest character to rise in popularity ever. (Maybe K. Rool tops this, but IDK who else would.)
-Geno, because he had some of the longest running support outside of K. Rool, Ridley, and Mewtwo.

 

[Opossum]

Bandana Dee, Ashley, and Geno. (Though I think Shantae is a runner-up right now, seeing as the SK assist shows that indies are possible, and that caused speculation to go up.)
-Bandana Dee, because he is probably most wanted in Japan right now, and I doubt that'll change until he is included. Also he is fairly popular everywhere else, and doesn't show up anywhere yet (especially Dedede's FS), which caused a bit of speculation.
-Ashley, because she is probably the fastest character to rise in popularity ever. (Maybe K. Rool tops this, but IDK who else would.)
-Geno, because he had some of the longest running support outside of K. Rool, Ridley, and Mewtwo.

Considering the support for Shovel Knight was tangibly larger than support for Shantae, there's no way I can see Shantae being playable if Shovel Knight could only be an Assist, to be honest.

 

[Teeb147]

Considering the support for Shovel Knight was tangibly larger than support for Shantae, there's no way I can see Shantae being playable if Shovel Knight could only be an Assist, to be honest.

Shovel Knight was mostly just popular over here. Shantae's known in japan quite well, even if we don't know how popular she is there.
Her chances go up because the company has better relations with Nintendo too.

I would say Ashley has a chance for dlc or smash 6, but not for the base roster. Unless it was all a trick!

 

[StormC]

Here's the thing: there isn't an automatic "okay, the next biggest characters are in, now all hype trickles down to the next candidates."

There are a lot of people who are satisfied with Smash's roster now that K. Rool and Ridley are in, or feel that it's complete, in a sense. They aren't going to all move down to Dixie, or Bandana Dee, or Ashley, or Isabelle, or what have you. That being said, I foresee the torch for future Smash hype/campaigning being picked up mostly by the younger generation. A lot of us who campaigned for these characters that are now finally in are getting pretty old. I know I assumed I wouldn't be able to play as K. Rool in Smash until my 30s after Smash 4 DLC closed out. Ridley fans probably felt similarly. Smash speculation can be exhausting and emotional, and many of us are probably out for good now.

That just means the next generation will take on the fight for future Smash games. And we won't really have a good idea of who the next "big three" are until the dust settles with this game, especially with characters like Bandana Dee still in the running. (Personally, I would mostly just focus on the "big two" with K. Rool and Ridley, since Mewtwo didn't get requests until he was removed from Brawl, obviously, and he actually did make it in Smash 4...)

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Considering the support for Shovel Knight was tangibly larger than support for Shantae, there's no way I can see Shantae being playable if Shovel Knight could only be an Assist, to be honest.

Yeah, but this is Masahiro Sakurai we're talking about. Shantae probably has more moveset potential in his eyes, as well as seniority and is definitely more popular in Japan, which he caters to more often than other places when it comes to smash (the only real exceptions to this rule being Ridley, Diddy Kong, and Little Mac, who required A LOT of push outside of Japan to make a difference). He makes a lot of decisions people probably don't think of as good (Smash 4 Wii U is a great example of this), but considering almost anyone would accept Shantae, I doubt being the favorite helped SK at all, especially when it wasn't by much. (Sorry if this was a bit of a rant.)

 

[Opossum]

Shovel Knight was mostly just popular over here. Shantae's known in japan quite well, even if we don't know how popular she is there.
Her chances go up because the company has better relations with Nintendo too.

I would say Ashley has a chance for dlc or smash 6, but not for the base roster. Unless it was all a trick!

What proof is there that Wayforward has a better relationship with Nintendo than Yacht Club though? Between Nintendo publishing Shovel Knight in Japan, it having its own amiibo series, and Shovel Knight being an Assist, I'd say their relationship with Yacht Club is incredibly strong.

Here's the thing: there isn't an automatic "okay, the next biggest characters are in, now all hype trickles down to the next candidates."

There are a lot of people who are satisfied with Smash's roster now that K. Rool and Ridley are in, or feel that it's complete, in a sense. They aren't going to all move down to Dixie, or Bandana Dee, or Ashley, or Isabelle, or what have you. That being said, I foresee the torch for future Smash hype/campaigning being picked up mostly by the younger generation. A lot of us who campaigned for these characters that are now finally in are getting pretty old. I know I assumed I wouldn't be able to play as K. Rool in Smash until my 30s after Smash 4 DLC closed out. Ridley fans probably felt similarly. Smash speculation can be exhausting and emotional, and many of us are probably out for good now.

That just means the next generation will take on the fight for future Smash games. And we won't really have a good idea of who the next "big three" are until the dust settles with this game, especially with characters like Bandana Dee still in the running. (Personally, I would mostly just focus on the "big two" with K. Rool and Ridley, since Mewtwo didn't get requests until he was removed from Brawl, obviously, and he actually did make it in Smash 4...)

Honestly I totally feel this as well now that Chrom's in, haha. Closure, and all (though I do feel like Isabelle is kind of necessary at this point but that's neither here nor there).

 

[Teeb147]

What proof is there that Wayforward has a better relationship with Nintendo than Yacht Club though? Between Nintendo publishing Shovel Knight in Japan, it having its own amiibo series, and Shovel Knight being an Assist, I'd say their relationship with Yacht Club is incredibly strong.

Honestly I totally feel this as well now that Chrom's in, haha. Closure, and all (though I do feel like Isabelle is kind of necessary at this point but that's neither here nor there).

Well, first, Shantae has a much long history both as a game franchise and with nintendo. Second, more popularity in Japan than Shovel Knight.
Third, apparently WayForward detailed at one point their relationship with Nintendo in emails for backers, and it looked pretty good. I haven't found it with a quick search, but if I do I could share if it you're interested.
And lastly, like Delta said, it depends how they feel about the fighter potential and more.

I think that probably had something to do with Ashley too, because really she was wanted and still ended up an AT.
So much is speculation though. REally we don't know exactly what's going on through for their decisions.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Also, something I probably should've mentioned:
Shantae has a lot more she could pull from her games in a moveset than Shovel Knight, who has a couple things he could do outside of what the AT covers.

 

[Teeb147]

Also, something I probably should've mentioned:
Shantae has a lot more she could pull from her games in a moveset than Shovel Knight, who has a couple things he could do outside of what the AT covers.

That's already what I thought you meant.
Shovel Knight does have a moveset in Rivals of Aether, recently added, and it's obvious that with creativity you can make a moveset for him, and it's really coold, but it sure doesn't look like moves you'd see in smash bros.

Any character can have moves be invented for, the question is just how much time they want to spend on it when Shantae already has way more moves to draw from.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Eh... Shantae and Shovel Knight have always been shoulder-to-shoulder in terms of popularity. Shovel Knight was never far and away more popular than her, or vice versa. It's enviable that Shovel Knight was published by Nintendo but as for the amiibo, Yacht Club self-funded that themselves, it wasn't commissioned by Nintendo.

Personally, I'm just crossing my fingers for a Shantae assist because I would like to see her in the game at all.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The thing about Shovel Knight is that he's a relative new kid on the block that reached Japan pretty recently (plus the extra DLC campaigns took literal years to release), so it's too early to see if he can be allowed to enter the Smash pantheon.

Nobody is a shoo-in though, and we'll have to work hard to grow the fanbase!

Not just this fanbase, everyone else's. Now that Simon, Ridley and K. Rool have been immortalized forever, all will desperately do everything in their power to get Sakurai to notice their most wanted fighters.

The biggest asset in Ashley's favor may have to be supporting the other Wario Ware characters. They are just as much an intergral part of the series like she is.

 

[FooltheFlames]

I guess now's as good a time as any to Rally the forces, at least preliminarily

https://twitter.com/SSBUNews/status/1030202551696875521

Get those Ashley votes going and spread the word to the other Ashley fans.

The lack of Ashley fan art in that thread disturbs me.. -_-
I should make a twitter account to even the odds~

Absolutely. Our support is already showing in that reddit poll we linked earlier. The results came in, and our girl got 10th!

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/..._survey_results_based_on_over?sort=confidence

• 10~ Ashley (WarioWare) [76 votes, 3.3%]
• 9~ Rayman (Rayman) [84 votes, 3.6%]
• 8~ Sora (Kingdom Hearts) [96 votes, 4.1%]
• 7~ Rex/Pyra (Xenoblade) [107 votes, 4.6%]
• 6~ Bandanna Dee (Kirby) [165 votes, 7.1%]
• 5~ Geno (Super Mario RPG) [170 votes, 7.3%]
• 4~ Isaac (Golden Sun) [181 votes, 7.8%]
• 3~ Banjo Kazooie (Banjo Kazooie) [192 votes, 8.2%]
• 2~ Waluigi (Super Mario) [199 votes, 8.5%]
• 1~ Skull Kid (Legend of Zelda) [214 votes, 9.2%]

YAY~

We need to keep this train of wholesome Ashley art going. I offer these as tribute:

Spoiler: Ashley making new friends through Smash

Sauce(s): Pic 1 Pic 2 Pic 3

Oh that is awesome! How have I never seen the Ashley Tharja worshiping pic before!? I guess Tharja is like her senpai! (.^ ^.)

This is kinda off topic but then you will love the anime Ojamajo Doremi if you haven't watched it yet, it has that exact premise/characters.

Hehe you already know I love that anime

Oh, and about that Ashley twitter support account, I think it should be named Ashley for Smashley. That's a tag that goes back a year from now, it's only been slowly building up steam in these last few months though; so I say let's keep the momentum going!

Just putting this out there for the Ashley faithful, User KMDP has their own poll going on for Smash Ultimate that has a segment for assist trophy promotions. You know what to do~

Anyway, in regards to the twitter account, We should have some sort of production value to it. With like, a custom avatar and Banner. We shouldn't have to rely on stock images to get our point across, at least, not in the long run. I know Ashley for Smashley is used a lot, but I'm not sure if it's a phrase to rely on, but I guess it's something to iron out later.

I did my part!

I will put it on my to watch at some point list. I have a huge backlog of shows to watch so adding one more to the list never hurts.


Right now I would saw it's Geno, Dixie Kong and Bandana Waddle Dee. Geno being the big fan favorite like K Rool and Ridley, Dixie due to a good number of the K Rool fans supporting her now and some think she is the last all-star missing and I believe Bandana Waddle Dee was high on the Ballot at least in Japan.

You should definitely watch some Doremi~ it's uber cute and the character arcs are fantastic; it may be a little too long for everyone to finish the entire thing.. But you could just stop after season 1 or 2 though.

Seems like the people of reddit are warming up to Ashley. Many people on a particular thread are thinking she is a lock for DLC or smash 6. It warms my heart : )
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/..._are_the_active_first_party_series_with_only/
Keep on spreading the positivity and remember to occasionally bring up Ashley when the situation asks for it, but don’t bombard people with Ashley posts. Let’s keep it coming : )

That's great news! (^-^) the tides are turning for us! (*_*)

 

[Samcrumpit]

Here's the thing: there isn't an automatic "okay, the next biggest characters are in, now all hype trickles down to the next candidates."

There are a lot of people who are satisfied with Smash's roster now that K. Rool and Ridley are in, or feel that it's complete, in a sense. They aren't going to all move down to Dixie, or Bandana Dee, or Ashley, or Isabelle, or what have you. That being said, I foresee the torch for future Smash hype/campaigning being picked up mostly by the younger generation. A lot of us who campaigned for these characters that are now finally in are getting pretty old. I know I assumed I wouldn't be able to play as K. Rool in Smash until my 30s after Smash 4 DLC closed out. Ridley fans probably felt similarly. Smash speculation can be exhausting and emotional, and many of us are probably out for good now.

That just means the next generation will take on the fight for future Smash games. And we won't really have a good idea of who the next "big three" are until the dust settles with this game, especially with characters like Bandana Dee still in the running. (Personally, I would mostly just focus on the "big two" with K. Rool and Ridley, since Mewtwo didn't get requests until he was removed from Brawl, obviously, and he actually did make it in Smash 4...)

Maybe. Though I think a few older gens will stick around for the next cycle if Isaac or Geno don't make it in.

But if your general statement is true, then this is potentially great for Ashley since Warioware is a staple to Nintendo consoles. She could raise even more supporters from the next generation depending on how well Warioware Switch does.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Maybe. Though I think a few older gens will stick around for the next cycle if Isaac or Geno don't make it in.

But if your general statement is true, then this is potentially great for Ashley since Warioware is a staple to Nintendo consoles. She could raise even more supporters from the next generation depending on how well Warioware Switch does.

With how the first-party Switch library thus far seems to focus on quality over quantity, I have high hopes that Nintendo will market a hypothetical WarioWare Switch pretty hard. If it's the only game to expect the month of its launch (as has been the case with games like Arms, Splatoon 2, and Kirby Star Allies), then they'll want it to sell well, which means hard marketing, which means good news for us.

Beyond that, I'm curious about the little marketing stunt Ashley's been on the past few years. Was that limited to the 3DS, or will it jump over to the Switch now? And what of the rumblings of a spin-off? Will it be a digital release of Pumpkin Panic, something new, or nothing at all?

These questions being answered - as well as a WarioWare title hitting the mainstream - would galvanize the growing Ashley support. And being a newer character, she's a bit more likely to appeal to a new generation of Smash speculators who might not even be aware of a WarioWare without her. The only thing standing in her way is the pervasiveness of bigger/older Nintendo characters with longer-lasting fanbases, which is why I'm hoping the rest of the newcomers in Ultimate's base roster are the heavy-hitters like Isaac, Geno, Skull Kid (I consider any Zelda character a heavy-hitter, but he is obviously the most topical/likely), and a new Pokemon, as well as fan-favorites with Echo potential like Isabelle and Shadow. That way, the largest sum of competitors get in while Ashley's confirmed to be out, and then we can (hopefully) see her get in uncontested for DLC/Smash 6.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

which is why I'm hoping the rest of the newcomers in Ultimate's base roster are the heavy-hitters like Isaac, Geno, Skull Kid (I consider any Zelda character a heavy-hitter, but he is obviously the most topical/likely), and a new Pokemon, as well as fan-favorites with Echo potential like Isabelle and Shadow. That way, the largest sum of competitors get in while Ashley's confirmed to be out, and then we can (hopefully) see her get in uncontested for DLC/Smash 6.

Speaking of a new pokemon, I made a Sceptile thread in case anyone happens to care about him anymore. But yeah, getting the heavy-hitters out of the way helps Ashley a lot for dlc, because right now her only real competition is stuff like Geno and Skull Kid. I dunno 'bout Isaac. Nintendo seems to have put him out of commission for good (His AT didn't even get into Smash 4, and even the kremlings, albiet only Kritter + a K. Rool trophy, made their return after years of being dead.) You can say what you want about him, but he just seems to have died, never to be seen again after brawl. Didn't even get a mii fighter costume for smash 4, which doesn't help the case.

 

[WiredRM]

Yeah, I'm viewing WarioWare Gold as far more comparable to Fire Emblem: Shadows of Valentia in terms of sales and marketing than anything else. A smaller, lower budget game made to squeeze out the last bit of profit from the 3DS than some big budget "if it doesn't do well than this franchise is dead forever" sort of deal. From word of mouth I heard that most stores don't have a ton of copies in stock, which makes sense to me as Nintendo's recognition of it's niche status. A modest investment for a modest gain. I think that WarioWare is still in the green for the foreseeable future.

And yeah, a second Smash ballet is gonna be a huge mess to be sure, but we have to keep trying if we want any hope of pulling through.

Speaking from personal experience, the Best Buy I went to buy the game at didn't have any on the shelves and couldn't even find where they may have had it in the back. I had to order it online. It made me feel like the game wasn't getting any/enough attention paid to it.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Speaking of a new pokemon, I made a Sceptile thread in case anyone happens to care about him anymore. But yeah, getting the heavy-hitters out of the way helps Ashley a lot for dlc, because right now her only real competition is stuff like Geno and Skull Kid. I dunno 'bout Isaac. Nintendo seems to have put him out of commission for good (His AT didn't even get into Smash 4, and even the kremlings, albiet only Kritter + a K. Rool trophy, made their return after years of being dead.) You can say what you want about him, but he just seems to have died, never to be seen again after brawl. Didn't even get a mii fighter costume for smash 4, which doesn't help the case.

I don't know if I'd even call Geno competition really. If he honestly does not make base roster, then I'm positive he's never showing up and the issue lies solely with (understandably) Square Enix. They have no use for the character and would not at all be surprised if they wouldn't want him to be a playable character because he's not a marketable property for them. The only way I see Geno getting in is if Square gets another Rep before him.

Isaac is a mixed bag. Camelot doesn't seem to care about him and Sakurai didn't have the common decency to bring back his assist trophy. Needless to say, I'm not too hot on either of these characters. Both of their popularities are completely baffling to me.

 

[Teeb147]

Speaking of a new pokemon, I made a Sceptile thread in case anyone happens to care about him anymore. But yeah, getting the heavy-hitters out of the way helps Ashley a lot for dlc, because right now her only real competition is stuff like Geno and Skull Kid. I dunno 'bout Isaac. Nintendo seems to have put him out of commission for good (His AT didn't even get into Smash 4, and even the kremlings, albiet only Kritter + a K. Rool trophy, made their return after years of being dead.) You can say what you want about him, but he just seems to have died, never to be seen again after brawl. Didn't even get a mii fighter costume for smash 4, which doesn't help the case.

You reminded me I made a thread the other day for Meloetta. Forgot to bring it up with the registry place or whatever.
Isaac has had steady support, and probably did good in the ballot. So I wouldn't be surprised if something came up for him. dunno why he disappeared in 4, but then again the ballot wasn't taken into account for it.
I don't get where skull kid came from, he wasn't that talked about before. Well, w/e.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I don't get where skull kid came from, he wasn't that talked about before. Well, w/e.

Skullkid was "leaked" and he garnered massive (imo) bandwagon support

 

[Cabbagehead]

Speaking of a new pokemon, I made a Sceptile thread in case anyone happens to care about him anymore. But yeah, getting the heavy-hitters out of the way helps Ashley a lot for dlc, because right now her only real competition is stuff like Geno and Skull Kid. I dunno 'bout Isaac. Nintendo seems to have put him out of commission for good (His AT didn't even get into Smash 4, and even the kremlings, albiet only Kritter + a K. Rool trophy, made their return after years of being dead.) You can say what you want about him, but he just seems to have died, never to be seen again after brawl. Didn't even get a mii fighter costume for smash 4, which doesn't help the case.

Both Isaac and Geno are, without a doubt, characters in graves. I don't think that matters too much for Geno, as he is a weird one-off character that was already "irrelevant" when he came onto the Smash speculation scene. So long as third-parties exist in Smash, I have a hunch that Geno's fans will hold on to hope. Of course, now is as good a time as any for him to get in, considering the "here's everything you've been asking for for the last decade plus" motif going on with Ultimate, as well as Square being on board the Smash Train prior to the base game's release for the first time ever.

Isaac, on the other hand, is now or never. During the gap between pre-Brawl and Smash 4, Golden Sun was releasing games. Granted, not many, but enough to be called a series. And, with the birth of the Ballot, I'm sure that the once-hopeful Isaac fans (who, much like us with Ashley in Ultimate, took Isaac's absence as an Assist Trophy as a sign of coming victory) used the Ballot as an opportunity to push one last time. With all the new info that points to the Ballot being more influential on Ultimate than Smash 4, it seems that Ultimate is truly the make-or-break moment for Isaac. In spite of this, I'm sure Isaac's fans will continue to push, should their character not make it into the game, as they should.

That being said, if one or both of these characters miss the bus yet again, I could see them becoming the new "seniority" picks, which will likely overshadow newer characters like Ashley as older members of the Smash community potentially wax nostalgic over what Sakurai refuses to give them. On the flipside, if Sakurai implements both characters, their fans can either move down their list of priorities, or retire altogether. I wouldn't fault them for any of these decisions, but it would be really dandy if they came here and joined us, haha.

As for Skull Kid, I know that his popularity seems to be more of a bandwagon effect, but I think that he may be a diamond in the rough. Like Ashley, he was an Assist Trophy last time around, so his presence on the Ballot probably wasn't too pronounced (and overshadowed by characters like King K. Rool, regardless). However, he is certainly a character who would appeal to the N64-era of fans (read: the Ocarina of Time fans), which is a pretty big demographic of people, and one to whom the classic/more mature newcomers and themes in Ultimate no doubt are meant to appeal to. As far as one-off Zelda characters go, Skull Kid is arguably the most iconic.

While none of these characters are necessarily in direct competition with Ashley, their continued presence in the Smash speculation scene surely wouldn't help the fact that Ashley is still fighting the uphill battle of being the most recognizable character (that isn't named Wario) from a niche series. People are more likely to get on board for an old speculation darling like Isaac or Geno, or a fan-favorite character from a large franchise like Skull Kid, than for an almost-there-but-not-quite-ready-to-breakout character from a smaller franchise like Ashley.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Both Isaac and Geno are, without a doubt, characters in graves. I don't think that matters too much for Geno, as he is a weird one-off character that was already "irrelevant" when he came onto the Smash speculation scene. So long as third-parties exist in Smash, I have a hunch that Geno's fans will hold on to hope. Of course, now is as good a time as any for him to get in, considering the "here's everything you've been asking for for the last decade plus" motif going on with Ultimate, as well as Square being on board the Smash Train prior to the base game's release for the first time ever.

Isaac, on the other hand, is now or never. During the gap between pre-Brawl and Smash 4, Golden Sun was releasing games. Granted, not many, but enough to be called a series. And, with the birth of the Ballot, I'm sure that the once-hopeful Isaac fans (who, much like us with Ashley in Ultimate, took Isaac's absence as an Assist Trophy as a sign of coming victory) used the Ballot as an opportunity to push one last time. With all the new info that points to the Ballot being more influential on Ultimate than Smash 4, it seems that Ultimate is truly the make-or-break moment for Isaac. In spite of this, I'm sure Isaac's fans will continue to push, should their character not make it into the game, as they should.

That being said, if one or both of these characters miss the bus yet again, I could see them becoming the new "seniority" picks, which will likely overshadow newer characters like Ashley as older members of the Smash community potentially wax nostalgic over what Sakurai refuses to give them. On the flipside, if Sakurai implements both characters, their fans can either move down their list of priorities, or retire altogether. I wouldn't fault them for any of these decisions, but it would be really dandy if they came here and joined us, haha.

As for Skull Kid, I know that his popularity seems to be more of a bandwagon effect, but I think that he may be a diamond in the rough. Like Ashley, he was an Assist Trophy last time around, so his presence on the Ballot probably wasn't too pronounced (and overshadowed by characters like King K. Rool, regardless). However, he is certainly a character who would appeal to the N64-era of fans (read: the Ocarina of Time fans), which is a pretty big demographic of people, and one to whom the classic/more mature newcomers and themes in Ultimate no doubt are meant to appeal to. As far as one-off Zelda characters go, Skull Kid is arguably the most iconic.

While none of these characters are necessarily in direct competition with Ashley, their continued presence in the Smash speculation scene surely wouldn't help the fact that Ashley is still fighting the uphill battle of being the most recognizable character (that isn't named Wario) from a niche series. People are more likely to get on board for an old speculation darling like Isaac or Geno, or a fan-favorite character from a large franchise like Skull Kid, than for an almost-there-but-not-quite-ready-to-breakout character from a smaller franchise like Ashley.

I personally think that this is a now-or-never situation for both Isaac and Geno. However, if they have a retro throwback and Square is reasonable, I see Geno getting in. If these two aren't in the base roster, I'd say nintendo has shut the lid for good, and others will realize that and move on to other characters to support. I really don't see Skull kid either, like you said, he's more of a bandwagon thing, and I don't see Sakurai picking bandwagon characters this time around seeing as all we have so far are characters who were realistically popular. So the last characters I can actually see getting to the playable roster during launch are Bandana Dee, Shantae, a Pokemon and Dixie Kong (If she's not an echo).

 

[Gameguy1996]

Speaking of a new pokemon, I made a Sceptile thread in case anyone happens to care about him anymore. But yeah, getting the heavy-hitters out of the way helps Ashley a lot for dlc, because right now her only real competition is stuff like Geno and Skull Kid. I dunno 'bout Isaac. Nintendo seems to have put him out of commission for good (His AT didn't even get into Smash 4, and even the kremlings, albiet only Kritter + a K. Rool trophy, made their return after years of being dead.) You can say what you want about him, but he just seems to have died, never to be seen again after brawl. Didn't even get a mii fighter costume for smash 4, which doesn't help the case.

I think this is Geno's last chance and If he misses out again I will take it as a sign that Square Enix does not want him to be in. As for Isaac I feel like he could be the retro pick next game due to Golden Sun being over 20 years by then and if Krystal and King K. Rool can return I believe he can as while if Camelot seems done with his series.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

As someone that's been supporting Geno for the last 12 years, this is make-or-break for Geno.

He's never had better cards than he has now. If he can't make it in with all the cards he has played for him on the table right now, he never will. And although I'm sure others will continue pushing for him if he doesn't make the cut, it's base roster or bust for me. Whether I get him or not, I'm retiring from the Smash speculation game.

So while anecdotal, take it for what you will. I would consider it a slap in the face that Sakurai reminded us of Geno with the Mii costume (when he could have let the character die if it was hopeless) but I would expect the Geno support to fade away if we get knocked down again. Or at least get a lot more quiet.

That said... I do think he'll get in. =P

 

[Teeb147]

Well, the big thing for this smash is bringing back alll the past ones. We'll still get a good amount of newcomers, but not all wanted. If the next smash is more about newcomers than veterans, geno and others might have more of a chance there. Anything's possible. Doesnt need to be counted out. But I know some people have waited a long time, and that can make or break.
Keep your hopes up, and if you need to take a break from that, you can do that, and come back when you feel it again.

 

[Klimax]

I don't know if I'd even call Geno competition really. If he honestly does not make base roster, then I'm positive he's never showing up and the issue lies solely with (understandably) Square Enix. They have no use for the character and would not at all be surprised if they wouldn't want him to be a playable character because he's not a marketable property for them. The only way I see Geno getting in is if Square gets another Rep before him.

Yep, that's why Sakurai brought Cloud in Smash 4

Anyway, i'm sure we'll get Isaac, Geno and Bandana Dee. Maybe Banjo & Kazooie. Then, Ashley will be a lock for Smash 6 alongside Waluigi

 

[perfectchaos83]

Yep, that's why Sakurai brought Cloud in Smash 4

Anyway, i'm sure we'll get Isaac, Geno and Bandana Dee. Maybe Banjo & Kazooie. Then, Ashley will be a lock for Smash 6 alongside Waluigi

I meant a rep after Cloud. Effectively making Geno the third SE rep.

 

[Euler23]

I agree that 2D and 3D Mario are certainly different experiences, but it's still Mario. If Smash ends and simply ports Ultimate to everything Skyrim-style, then that could potentially be as controversial as Smash 6 serving as a sort of reboot with a smaller/drastically different roster, as there is no substitute/ successor.

And, this isn't really a "debate" point, so much as just conversation, but it isn't necessarily that I want a smaller roster. Rather, I see quite a few of the veterans as "fat" that could be trimmed to make way for even more newcomers. I know that literally every character has its fans, which is why Sakurai is bringing everyone back this go-around, but I think it would be interesting to see a sequel that reverses the development of Ultimate; rather than focus primarily on veterans and then focus on a few newcomers later, Smash 6 could bring in an integral base of veterans, along with a sizable number of newcomers, and then focus on other veterans as DLC, if need be.

It might be controversial, but people keep buying Skyrim. And by their nature, fighting games tend to be iterative. I can't really think of anything a Smash 6 would have that couldn't be added to Smash Ultimate as DLC (ie more characters/stages) unless they radically change the formula. That is, they would need to make the first 20 seconds of this video obsolete:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L93H7YC-83o

I agree. And, sure, you could apply what I said to "Goku in Smash" to point out the argument's flaws, but, as you said, comparing a first-party character who is already in the game (just as a summon instead of a playable character) to a non-video game character on whom Sakurai has made his stance known might be a bit wonky, haha. A playable Assist Trophy wouldn't jeopardize the point of Smash Bros. as much as a playable anime character.

I'm only saying "it would make money" isn't Sakurai's only consideration when looking at potential DLC characters.

I was actually going to talk about that in my novella responding to you, haha. I think that Fire Emblem characters are potential "Nintendo All-Stars", as well. Since the series has that Final Fantasy-esque "one-off" structure to it, it's hard to apply the same expectations as you would for, say, Mario. But we know that recurring characters like Marth, Ike, Tiki, and Anna are up there, considering they keep showing up. And Pokemon ... is Pokemon, haha. The series might run parallel of just about every other Nintendo property, but I'd be hard-pressed to not deem a character that Game Freak/The Pokemon Company/Nintendo wants to push a "Nintendo All-Star".

That leaves us with retro characters and third-parties, the former of which are just Sakurai wild cards, and the latter I try not to think about, haha.

But yeah, that's why I'm optimistic about Ashley's future in Smash. At this rate, just about any of Ashley's competition is probably going to be in the game, so next go-around (or maybe even for DLC), she could be Smash 6's next Inkling, so long as WarioWare stays afloat (which I'm optimistic about), or assuming Ashley gets a spin-off (which I'm slightly less optimistic about, but I guess it could happen).

Right, but if you include Fire Emblem fighters and new Pokemon as Nintendo All-Stars the field gets a lot more crowded.

This is true. But, considering the "fan-favorite" nature of literally every newcomer thus far, it would be disappointing to finish off with "And last, but not least *drum roll* ... BUBBLES FROM CLU CLU LAND!" Under any other circumstances, I would get excited for Bubbles (or a retro rep of any sort), but I sort of just want to hurry up and usher in all the fan-favorites that people have been waiting for since Melee/Brawl so that we can start a new era of Smash speculation, one where Ashley's likelihood isn't outshined by people still worrying about Isaac a decade plus after the death of his series.

What if Bubbles was the second-last character revealed then ? Or if they did a "Mewtwo is on the way!"-type announcement for a free post-release DLC fighter.

 

[Vingag]

Just putting this out there for the Ashley faithful, User KMDP has their own poll going on for Smash Ultimate that has a segment for assist trophy promotions. You know what to do~

Anyway, in regards to the twitter account, We should have some sort of production value to it. With like, a custom avatar and Banner. We shouldn't have to rely on stock images to get our point across, at least, not in the long run. I know Ashley for Smashley is used a lot, but I'm not sure if it's a phrase to rely on, but I guess it's something to iron out later.

Done and voted. Also, for anyone interested, I voiced my concern that Porky was not among the recommended newcomers. I will now resume my Ashley support.

 

[Samcrumpit]

With how the first-party Switch library thus far seems to focus on quality over quantity, I have high hopes that Nintendo will market a hypothetical WarioWare Switch pretty hard. If it's the only game to expect the month of its launch (as has been the case with games like Arms, Splatoon 2, and Kirby Star Allies), then they'll want it to sell well, which means hard marketing, which means good news for us.

Beyond that, I'm curious about the little marketing stunt Ashley's been on the past few years. Was that limited to the 3DS, or will it jump over to the Switch now? And what of the rumblings of a spin-off? Will it be a digital release of Pumpkin Panic, something new, or nothing at all?

These questions being answered - as well as a WarioWare title hitting the mainstream - would galvanize the growing Ashley support. And being a newer character, she's a bit more likely to appeal to a new generation of Smash speculators who might not even be aware of a WarioWare without her. The only thing standing in her way is the pervasiveness of bigger/older Nintendo characters with longer-lasting fanbases, which is why I'm hoping the rest of the newcomers in Ultimate's base roster are the heavy-hitters like Isaac, Geno, Skull Kid (I consider any Zelda character a heavy-hitter, but he is obviously the most topical/likely), and a new Pokemon, as well as fan-favorites with Echo potential like Isabelle and Shadow. That way, the largest sum of competitors get in while Ashley's confirmed to be out, and then we can (hopefully) see her get in uncontested for DLC/Smash 6.

I don't see Ashley as a mascot or something like the Badge Arcade making a comeback. The Switch seems to be going for a very minimalist aesthetic that could appeal to everyone. Cosmetics like Badges and themes and a store for this with a lot of character packed into it sounds like more work for Nintendo that would end up putting off potential customers.

As someone that's been supporting Geno for the last 12 years, this is make-or-break for Geno.

He's never had better cards than he has now. If he can't make it in with all the cards he has played for him on the table right now, he never will. And although I'm sure others will continue pushing for him if he doesn't make the cut, it's base roster or bust for me. Whether I get him or not, I'm retiring from the Smash speculation game.

So while anecdotal, take it for what you will. I would consider it a slap in the face that Sakurai reminded us of Geno with the Mii costume (when he could have let the character die if it was hopeless) but I would expect the Geno support to fade away if we get knocked down again. Or at least get a lot more quiet.

That said... I do think he'll get in. =P

I can understand this sentiment, but the general public might not. During an Ashley thread on Reddit, someone said they considered her new red eyes a slap on the face to Ashley fans, because they went out of their way to change her and not make her a character. It got downvoted to hell and the person was accused of being whiny and what not.

I don't think it's that logical, "If you acknowledged her, why not make her playable?". It takes a lot more work to make a character playable. And I'd prefer Ashley getting an update and maybe a new voice than staying the sanebfrom Sm4sh.

 

[AngrySun88]

Been busy for the past couple weeks while I'm still trying to get over the disappointment over Ashley not being playable. I mean, why did Nintendo go through all that effort to promote her, only to deregulate her to assist trophy status?

I guess we can hope for DLC. Hopefully Sakurai is at least aware of her popularity and moveset potential now if he wasn't before.