well sakurai said home run was the last new mode so its more optimistic than you think
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The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash
- Thread starter Cosmic77
- Start date
He can always change his mind. No one expected Small Battlefield, so I don't think a new mode is off the table (who am I kidding, it's a character; they wouldn't have said smash news otherwise, unless it's clickbait).
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I’m willing to believe it was click bait and we just get a spirit event
A variation of the trailer that revealed them in the first place perhaps?
How likely is it that they announce a 3rd pass tomorrow? I've seen people throw the idea, but I think it's up in the air. Don't expect it, but wouldn't be surprised if it happened.
And while I'm at it, will there be some sort of pokemon news, outside a potential smash character?
And while I'm at it, will there be some sort of pokemon news, outside a potential smash character?
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Delzethin
Character Concept Creator
Unlikely, especially with the sense of finality Sakurai's been giving this one...but not impossible. I'd give it a...20-25% chance? Wouldn't bet on it.
Probably not. Pokémon likes announcing their games on their own terms, and we know there'll be a string of announcements in some form near the anniversary.
Cosmic77
Smash Hero
The fact the Ultimate was the only title mentioned by name makes me think they might have something more notable to announce. That being said, a third pass feels so unlikely to me. I know sales have reportedly been good, but that's a long time to make DLC for this game.
As for Pokémon, who knows. Maybe something small, but I expect TPC to do their own thing sometime soon. Might want to save those announcements for themselves.
I wouldn't say it's impossible since by the end of pass 2 it'll only be 3 years of support after launch (other games have had more time than that). But I also think it's too soon to announce such a thing.
I do think other things could be added like new modes or other improvements.
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Delzethin
Character Concept Creator
Ten minutes to go.
Fingers crossed, everyone. May the light come to the Darkest Day of this past year.
Fingers crossed, everyone. May the light come to the Darkest Day of this past year.
Pokemon Sword & Shield is now the last major switch game yet to be represented in smash with a character, from what I can tell (Super Mario Odyssey, Breath of the Wild, Fire Emblem Three Houses, Xenoblade 2, ARMS, and tecnically Animal Crossing New Horizons & Splatoon 2).
At this point our only chance is either fighter 11 or a 3rd pass. Fighter 10 aligns so well for an e3 reveal, and with dlc they've exclusively shown off 3rd party characters at these places. While I do think we're done with 1st parties at this point, Sakurai does whatever he wants, so for all we know the next 2 are also 1st parties.
Now I'm really curious to see how they handle the rest of pass 2, since we're basically left with 2 characters to be shown and released within 9 whole months for the deadline which either means they're really spreading both out for 2021 or one of the characters will be VERY complex & time consuming, so they'll need the extra time. Or they chose to end earlier than expected (which would suprise me given what happened last year, very impressive to be on schedule with spare time).
At this point our only chance is either fighter 11 or a 3rd pass. Fighter 10 aligns so well for an e3 reveal, and with dlc they've exclusively shown off 3rd party characters at these places. While I do think we're done with 1st parties at this point, Sakurai does whatever he wants, so for all we know the next 2 are also 1st parties.
Now I'm really curious to see how they handle the rest of pass 2, since we're basically left with 2 characters to be shown and released within 9 whole months for the deadline which either means they're really spreading both out for 2021 or one of the characters will be VERY complex & time consuming, so they'll need the extra time. Or they chose to end earlier than expected (which would suprise me given what happened last year, very impressive to be on schedule with spare time).
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Cosmic77
Smash Hero
I won't deny that this was the ideal time to reveal a SwSh character, so I do think it’s time to prepare ourselves for disappointment just in case.
That being said, Pyra did help us in some ways. For one, the whole "missed the boat" argument that people will certainly try to use against us is pretty worthless now. XC2 had Spirits, Mii Costumes, and several tracks to represent it, yet they still wanted to give it a character. Are people really going to try and claim SwSh can't get a character now because Nintendo lost intrest or because it's not promotable anymore? Two, we got XC2 content as DLC in the form of Rex's costume, so the whole "DLC content deconfirms" claim isn't a hard rule anymore, even though I'm sure people are already ready to explain why XC2 is an exception.
I also think it's worth remembering that this is the final stretch. They're not saving the best for last I'd assume, and Pyra lines up with that. We're penciling in E3 to have a third-party, but it's possible Sephiroth was the last third-party. Not sure how likely that is, but still, maybe we shouldn't be so quick to label things. If they don't have another third-party to show off, then they'd probably want to reveal one of their most exciting first-parties. That could be a SwSh Pokémon or perhaps a BotW2 character. In their eyes, both are pretty notable. Either way, the characters aren't decided by special events. The characters are decided, and then Nintendo decides when and where they'd best fit.
That being said, Pyra did help us in some ways. For one, the whole "missed the boat" argument that people will certainly try to use against us is pretty worthless now. XC2 had Spirits, Mii Costumes, and several tracks to represent it, yet they still wanted to give it a character. Are people really going to try and claim SwSh can't get a character now because Nintendo lost intrest or because it's not promotable anymore? Two, we got XC2 content as DLC in the form of Rex's costume, so the whole "DLC content deconfirms" claim isn't a hard rule anymore, even though I'm sure people are already ready to explain why XC2 is an exception.
I also think it's worth remembering that this is the final stretch. They're not saving the best for last I'd assume, and Pyra lines up with that. We're penciling in E3 to have a third-party, but it's possible Sephiroth was the last third-party. Not sure how likely that is, but still, maybe we shouldn't be so quick to label things. If they don't have another third-party to show off, then they'd probably want to reveal one of their most exciting first-parties. That could be a SwSh Pokémon or perhaps a BotW2 character. In their eyes, both are pretty notable. Either way, the characters aren't decided by special events. The characters are decided, and then Nintendo decides when and where they'd best fit.
I honestly think we should get a BotW character since I believe Link doesn't represent those games the best. I'd personally go with Revali: he's my favorite character in BotW & I feel he has the most to work with out of all the champions. If they can favor one of the starters in pokemon, then they can favor one of the champions over the others. I still hope we do get a pokemon though.
And a small thing: it was a good call not to start with the smash trailer slash. The trailer would've felt dragged out.
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Pyra/Mythra is a nice addition. Sw/Sh is definitely one of the big Switch games which has lots of content to pull from, so we'll just have to hope for the best.
In other news, Piers & Obstagoon in Pokemon Masters. They hint at a new sync pair in the end, wonder if they're fron Galar with the background being Dynamax stadium:
In other news, Piers & Obstagoon in Pokemon Masters. They hint at a new sync pair in the end, wonder if they're fron Galar with the background being Dynamax stadium:
zacian
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Pokelego999
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Yo he's British! They're just gonna make them all British/Scottish lmao.
My bets are on Leon for the sync pair, probably with Dragapult as they hate repeats.
britain and scotland are (currently) the same thing. britain is a series of islands made up of three countries
Pokelego999
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I know, but accents are different.
Accents tend to vary within a country. Despite that everyone seems to think that only the Glasgow accent exists in Scotland
Delzethin
Character Concept Creator
Well then. Where does this leave us now?
I won't deny it, there're a few ways in which Zacian and Zamazenta's chances took a hit here:
However...we also gained ground in a few ways:
Basically, I wouldn't be surprised if they've only started deciding who to take as Fighter #11 right about now. Far beyond any point where the SwSh Spirit Event could've had any effect.
For now, how about we brainstorm? How could a moveset for Zacian and/or Zamazenta be built that'd still feel completely fresh and interesting even with there being a different stance-changing swordfighter duo in the game now?
I won't deny it, there're a few ways in which Zacian and Zamazenta's chances took a hit here:
- Getting a two-in-one character now lowers the odds that one of the remaining fighters will be another. This limits our potential arguments for uniqueness and might restrict our build options to just one of the pair fighting as the vanguard while the other only jumps in to assist with certain moves.
- Mythra seems to be fast both in movement and frame data, another trait that intrudes on Zacian in particular and makes it tougher for her to stand out.
- And obviously, now we're down to just two spots left, and both lean toward character choices other than us. Fighter #10 looks primed for an E3 (or counterpart) reveal and is probably one more guest fighter. Fighter #11 is probably another deliberately recent first party in the vein of Byleth.
However...we also gained ground in a few ways:
- Another first party newcomer reaffirms that Nintendo characters are still 100% on the table at any time.
- With Ultimate doubling back to grab newcomers from both ARMS and Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Sword & Shield stick out now as the biggest recent Nintendo titles to not have significant content in the game.
- Min Min, Sephiroth, and now Pyra & Mythra show us Sakurai et al are much more willing to choose less conventional newcomers than in the first Pass or the base game.
- We now have another case of a Spirit later becoming playable.
- And, the surprise announcement that the Breath of the Wild sequel still isn't in a presentable state, along will all the titles being pushed back to 2022, severely limits the options for a new, very recent first party character to fit as Fighter #11. The odds of us getting a new Pokémon there have gone up significantly, simply because there are so few other options. And since we've reason to believe Corrin and Byleth were locked in far later than anyone else in their respective batches of DLC, the same thing would happen here.
Basically, I wouldn't be surprised if they've only started deciding who to take as Fighter #11 right about now. Far beyond any point where the SwSh Spirit Event could've had any effect.
For now, how about we brainstorm? How could a moveset for Zacian and/or Zamazenta be built that'd still feel completely fresh and interesting even with there being a different stance-changing swordfighter duo in the game now?
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The easy way out they might take is that they outright just pick Zacian and leave Zamazenta in the dust for taunts, Final smash & victory screens. Starters have gotten favoritism over the others, so for them to do the same with legendaries wouldn't suprise me.
About fighter 11, it's also possible for it to be another 3rd party, meaning Pyra/Mythra might be our last 1st party characters. But for the record I believe Sephiroth was the peak of big name 3rd party characters, so I think a minor 3rd party could happen. Still, we have no clue what games are releasing for the second half of 2021, so we might still be in the dark for who the 1st party from a recent release might be, if they even go that route again. Heck, our pokemon rep could possibly be outside of Sword & Shield if Sakurai feels like representing another side of Pokemon not yet in the game (not holding out for it, but it's possible).
Lastly, can I say this now officially feels like smash 5 rather than smash anniversary edition? Specifically since we're getting characters we would've expected at launch for a switch Smash Bros. game that wasn't released early into the switch's life & didn't focus too much on old content. I'm still pleased with what we have since having few newcomers for base game meant focusing on the big requests people have had for years.
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Cosmic77
Smash Hero
It's pretty much a fight between SwSh and BotW2 in my eyes. At this point, I can't picture any other first-party (assuming they continue the trend of giving relevancy priority). Both have a lot of pros and cons.
SwSh:
SwSh:
- Good timing
- Plenty of characters to work with
- Very little representation in Smash
- Not as new
- Spirit Event
- Franchise already given a newcomer (Incineroar)
- Poor timing
- May or may not have characters to work with
- No representation, but first game has a lot
- Very new
- No Spirit Event
- Franchise has not received a character in Ultimate
at this rate i think we're gonna end up with another gen 1 pokemon
WeirdChillFever
Smash Hero
To be fair, if you look at the animations for Pyra and Myrthra’s normals, a good few of them are familiar to those that play swordfighters in Smash already, with the familiar swings and stabs seen throughout the Marth-spectrum of fighters.
This shows that to Sakurai, the sword moveset has far from reached the point where its worn out and if retreaded, not everything needs to be fresh and unique. Putting a twist on the moveset (The swap mechanic) is deemed enough to pass the Aegis off as a fully realized moveset.
Furthermore, the Aegis is a stance-fighter, having the same set shared but with different attributes. (Not unlike a certain fighter in Age of Calamity). The Legendary Knights never could do this, considering Zamazenta doesn’t use a sword, so a tag-team mechanic on them would always have to be different because of it.
In fact, having the Aegis out of the way now means that we can fully theorize about the stance-mechanic, without having to wonder how a possible Xenoblade 2 fighter might go around it. Between Rex and the different blades, there was a lot of ways it could be implemented, and now we know about which one they chose.
The conspiracy theorist in me might even believe that if they found an angle for the Aegis moveset that they liked, but couldn’t fit on this specific character, they might try again on another duo character. There’s bound to be ideas that didn’t make the cut.
I think a way to go is to make Zacian/Zamazenta more distinct among swordfighters at least is to capitalize off of their large frames and make them heavyweights. Being agile is different from being quick, This means that Zacian could have some start-up on his moves like Cloud, low acceleration in his mobility and large frame to make up for his sword range, decent power, moves with little endlag (Meta Knight’s Forward Smash-y), high weight and high top speed.
If you trap them, Zacian is going to feel clunky because of the start-up on his moves and mobility and his large frame, but good luck getting him in disadvantage state in the first place, because if he has time to accelerate, he’s going places with oppressive range and end lag on his sword strikes, high speed, possibly great recovery and high weight.
In a nutshell, he’d be a faster and possibly stronger Cloud all around (now including functional recovery), at the expense of being a bit closer to Ridley in sheer size.
And yes, this Direct also alleviates some worries about Nintendo going in guns blazing with new DK, new Kirby and other first party series ripe for the promotion, but it seems like most of the cards are played and they‘re not looking all that awful. Splatoon 3 and BoTW possibly being 2022 also casts some doubt on the viability of characters from those games, which now depends on the willingness of the team to get ahead of the release of a game or to let an earlier incarnation of a character do double-duty as mascot for the new game, such as Octolings or one of the Champions.
And of course, there;s the question whether the last DLC slot will truly be in the same vein as Corrin. We don’t know how far out the next Smash is, whereas Smash 4 and Ultimate was continuous development. It might be that these are different scenarios and that we do indeed end on a fighter chosen for other reasons than timing.
On the other hand, we also don’t know whether the next pack is chosen based on some arbitrary factor like E3-y-ness. It’s possible E3 is a double reveal of both the “underwhelming first party” at the start and ending on the final Smash Bros Ultimate DLC character to be some “hype-bringer”. Overall, I’d say that it’s unlikely to end this pass on a streak of three first party fighters, but there is no inherent reason to say either 10 or 11 will go one way or another in the first party-third party dichotomy. Both have reasons to be either first party or third party.
zacian
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So Japan is doing another poll on who everyone's favourite Pokémon is, this time derived solely through Twitter by people using the hashtags including the Japanese name. For example, I obviously would pick #セレビィにきめた for Celebi.
— Joe Merrick (@JoeMerrick) February 19, 2021
Use the Serebii Pokédex for the names
Starlight Liger
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After the announcement of Pyra and Mythra, Zacian and Zamazenta being two characters in one seem all the more likely.
I think they'll be in Smash Bros but I don't think they're going to be announced during Pokemon week, seems way too early for that.
I think they'll be in Smash Bros but I don't think they're going to be announced during Pokemon week, seems way too early for that.
Cosmic77
Smash Hero
Of all the things to be worried about, I don't think Zacian being someone who fights with yet another sword is something to lose sleep over. I remember there being a little bit of concern after Sephiroth since he fights with a sword, and yet look who our next character was.
There's only so many ways you can swing a sword. You can look at pretty much any newcomer added in Ultimate who fights with a sword and see some attacks that resemble an existing veteran's. I think Zacian has an advantage since it's feral and fights with its sword in its mouth, but I'm sure at least a few attacks will feel samey. That's okay though, because specials and gimmicks are what make these sword characters stand out more than anything. Zacian alone has PLENTY of material to work with, and I'm sure Sakurai could even incorporate Zamazenta into a move or two if he wanted to (counter, dash attack, etc.).
There's only so many ways you can swing a sword. You can look at pretty much any newcomer added in Ultimate who fights with a sword and see some attacks that resemble an existing veteran's. I think Zacian has an advantage since it's feral and fights with its sword in its mouth, but I'm sure at least a few attacks will feel samey. That's okay though, because specials and gimmicks are what make these sword characters stand out more than anything. Zacian alone has PLENTY of material to work with, and I'm sure Sakurai could even incorporate Zamazenta into a move or two if he wanted to (counter, dash attack, etc.).
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Monday coming I think
Speaking about the people who continue to complain, they really look at the fact that the characters look visually samey rather than the intricacy of their movesets. Fire Emblem is really to blame given half of the characters do play very similarly (Marth, his echo, his semi clone & the semi clone's echo) & the series is so much more than just sword users. Cause looking at the characters who rely a lot on a sword for at least half of their moveset, it's roughly a 4th of the entire roster who can be considered swordsmen. Zacian has the advantage of not being human & being a big feral wolf (I can just imagine the memes & mods putting other wolf characters who use swords: Sif the Great Gray Wolf, Repede, Amaterasu & maybe even Wolf Link).
On another note, I kinda hope the last 2 characters are revealed at e3 since I'd rather not wait till September/October to find out who the last fighter is. They oughta have both characters in a presentable manner by the time e3 comes around. Though I wouldn't mind if fighter 11 is only revealed in a cg tralier.
I think Pokemon is big enough to get a character reveal at e3, even if many sigh at "yet another pokemon".
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Pokelego999
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20th
im with you on that one. sometimes i just want to anticipation to be over
At least with this pass it seems the 1st party reps are getting illustrations for their smash inclusions, which could mean a Pokemon/Zelda rep could also come with an illustration.
I know it's a minor thing, but I really miss these from smash 4. What would be an illustration for Zacian/Zamazeta?
『ゼノブレイド2』のキャラクターデザインを手がけた齋藤将嗣さんから、ホムラ / ヒカリ参戦記念のイラストをいただきましたも！
— ゼノブレイド総合 (@XenobladeJP) February 17, 2021
3月の配信を前に、早くも一触即発のフンイキ…。みなさんは落ち着いて、もうちょっと待っててほしいも！#スマブラSP #ゼノブレイド2 pic.twitter.com/oFiq8f8Hxd
I know it's a minor thing, but I really miss these from smash 4. What would be an illustration for Zacian/Zamazeta?
Cosmic77
Smash Hero
Probably a generic poster, but it'd be nice if it featured Zacian and/or Zamazenta readying a Behemoth Blade/Behemoth Bash with several other Smash characters looking up in the sky at Dharkon.
i used to draw fan ones so i could probably draw one for them
Starlight Liger
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Ken Sugimori drawing Zacian and Zamazenta against all the other Pokemon in Smash Bros Ultimate.
well he did for greninja i dont see why not again
Cosmic77
Smash Hero
If you needed a good laugh today.