The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

[fogbadge]

That being said, given Nintendo is picking the characters again that does give us hope that they'll look at Pokemon Sword & Shield for a potential character.

well if we were to believe nintendo chose byleth then i see no reason why they wouldnt also go for some of their other big games like sword and shield and animal crossing new horizons

 

[Cosmic77]

All finished! Here's the completed illustration of Zacian's moveset that I've been working on with TKOWL . Really appreciate him making this for me.

Hope you enjoy it!

 

[Delzethin]

Well, this is interesting timing.

Because I just finished something myself.

 

[RandomAce]

Two move sets in a single day? What are the odds of that.

 

[LukeRNG]

All finished! Here's the completed illustration of Zacian's moveset that I've been working on with TKOWL . Really appreciate him making this for me.

Hope you enjoy it!

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The last taunt is kind of cute. The moveset looks awesome.

Well, this is interesting timing.

Because I just finished something myself.

I really dig those stats. Really sounds like my type of character.

 

[fogbadge]

now we just need someone to do zamazenta

 

[LukeRNG]

Does anyone have any opinions on Temtem?

 

[Cosmic77]

Does anyone have any opinions on Temtem?

I assume you mean the game and not the odds of a character getting in Smash.

I think it's an interesting take on Pokemon. The online and emphasis on multiplayer is cool, and that's something I'd like to see implemented more in Pokemon. Designs are a bit of a hit or miss – some are really creative while others feel more than a little generic. Gameplay and plot is VERY similar to Pokemon. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I would love to see more orginal ideas added in the future. Stuff that would really separate itself, like Yokai Watch.

Temtem needs a lot of polishing, but I do think it has potential.

 

[fogbadge]

Does anyone have any opinions on Temtem?

whats that?

 

[Pokelego999]

whats that?

whats that?

An indie game that plays very, and I mean very, similar to Pokemon. It has all the same things, and I'm pretty sure it's based off it.

 

[fogbadge]

An indie game that plays very, and I mean very, similar to Pokemon. It has all the same things, and I'm pretty sure it's based off it.

i see

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Another quadrupedal character would definitely be a diverse inclusion so I wouldn’t complain about the idea. And Pokemon is a crowd-pleaser.

 

[LukeRNG]

Another quadrupedal character would definitely be a diverse inclusion so I wouldn’t complain about the idea. And Pokemon is a crowd-pleaser.

I'm actually curious to see the reception of a gen 8 pokemon compared to Byleth's reveal. Especially given how controversial gen 8 was.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm actually curious to see the reception of a gen 8 pokemon compared to Byleth's reveal. Especially given how controversial gen 8 was.

Outside Smashboards, I think it'll be a lot better. You're still gonna hear some complaints because a Pokemon is a Pokemon regardless of how unique they are (and it doesn't help that they'd be from Gen 8). Still, I don't expect it to be nearly as bad as Byleth. I think most people will be okay, and those who are initially disappointed should warm up to it quickly.

On this site? Not sure. Byleth had a lot of criticism even here, but there was also a decent number of people defending his inclusion. I'm honestly not sure how many people here would defend a Gen 8 rep, as most people are either completely uninterested or are praying that we don't get one at all.

 

[Perkilator]

I'm honestly not sure how many people here would defend a Gen 8 rep, as most people are either completely uninterested or are praying that we don't get one at all.

I'd defend a Gen 8 rep for as long as I lived, even if it's not Sirfetch'd. I want him over any other Gen 8 rep and be a bit disappointed if he didn't get in, but would be happy for a Gen 8 rep nonetheless.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Outside Smashboards, I think it'll be a lot better. You're still gonna hear some complaints because a Pokemon is a Pokemon regardless of how unique they are (and it doesn't help that they'd be from Gen 8). Still, I don't expect it to be nearly as bad as Byleth. I think most people will be okay, and those who are initially disappointed should warm up to it quickly.

On this site? Not sure. Byleth had a lot of criticism even here, but there was also a decent number of people defending his inclusion. I'm honestly not sure how many people here would defend a Gen 8 rep, as most people are either completely uninterested or are praying that we don't get one at all.

At the very least I would expect the like-to-dislike ratio to be better.

 

[IsmaR]

There are people who still aren't over Incineroar "getting in" over whatever character they wanted. Smash/Nintendo fans gonna be Smash/Nintendo fans.

That said, those of us that enjoy characters for characters (plus things like more music, a stage, spirits, etc.) will continue doing such. If nothing else, having new music to play on Pokemon Stadium for every single tournament will be a warm welcome from 90% of the people that actually play the game.

 

[Guynamednelson]

There are people who still aren't over Incineroar "getting in" over whatever character they wanted

And I never will be until we get a Pokemon newcomer that is definitely its antithesis.

 

[Cosmic77]

At the very least, I expect there to be a lot of enthusiasm toward the stage and the music. There are a lot of places that would make a gorgeous stage, such as Slumbering Wield and the Wild Area. I could see a Gym Leader theme and Marnie's theme remix getting people excited too.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm actually curious to see the reception of a gen 8 pokemon compared to Byleth's reveal. Especially given how controversial gen 8 was.

well despite the controversy the gen 8 pokemon them selves were pretty well received, as far as i can tell, but theres bound to be a fair amount of negativity but not so much as byleth as pokemon and mario having to many characters seem to be the minority opinion in their case

 

[LukeRNG]

And I never will be until we get a Pokemon newcomer that is definitely its antithesis.

What pokemon would ideally to you be it's antithesis? I assume the starters, Toxtricity & Urshifu aren't.

 

[Guynamednelson]

What pokemon would ideally to you be it's antithesis? I assume the starters, Toxtricity & Urshifu aren't.

I've brought this up before in the Lycanroc thread

Something that's neither humanoid nor slow, and was chosen because of popularity/promotion that definitely exists, rather than "it's new and conveniently fits this human moveset I had lying around". That first point is why I'd rather have, say, Scorbunny than Cinderace, because with it already having soccer theming from the start all I can see Cinderace having that Scorbunny doesn't is worse frame data

Granted, I'm not holding my breath for Scorbunny due to that spirit event, since I think base game spirits have a better chance of being promoted.

 

[LukeRNG]

I've brought this up before in the Lycanroc thread

Granted, I'm not holding my breath for Scorbunny due to that spirit event, since I think base game spirits have a better chance of being promoted.

It'll be interesting to see Sakurai's reasoning & thought process behind whoever he picks, such as why did he pick it over the other pokemon.

Honestly I wish we knew what his reasons were for past pokemon additions like Pokemon Trainer, Lucario & Greninja (this one i don't really remember very well).

 

[fogbadge]

It'll be interesting to see Sakurai's reasoning & thought process behind whoever he picks, such as why did he pick it over the other pokemon.

Honestly I wish we knew what his reasons were for past pokemon additions like Pokemon Trainer, Lucario & Greninja (this one i don't really remember very well).

well he only ever said for greninja and it was he thought he looked like hed fit in a fighting game, lucario is probably reasonable to assume it cause he popular since his debut and PT i would guess he wanted something reflective of how pokemon battle can work or how bond between trainer and pokemon is a bit part of the series

 

[Cosmic77]

Lately, Sakurai seems to look for Pokemon who he thinks would "fit right in" so to speak. In other words, the Pokemon who would clearly work due to having a design that revolves around some type of fighting. It's not very hard to imagine a ninja in Smash, nor a wrestler, nor a martial artist.

He also looks for Pokemon who are reliably getting promoted by Game Freak, which might be why he's taken a liking to starters recently. The anime is also a strong indicator of which Pokemon could be chosen, as Ivysaur is the only Pokemon thus far that hasn't done anything notable in the anime despite getting in Smash (but even then, Pokemon Trainer is based off the same character as Ash).

 

[Guynamednelson]

work due to having a design that revolves around some type of fighting

...while putting in a potted plant. This is part of the reason why I'm the inverse of all those people getting over Incineroar and ****ting on PP instead, because at least its moveset had to be made for it as opposed to one that could go on any wrestler.

 

[fogbadge]

Lately, Sakurai seems to look for Pokemon who he thinks would "fit right in" so to speak. In other words, the Pokemon who would clearly work due to having a design that revolves around some type of fighting. It's not very hard to imagine a ninja in Smash, nor a wrestler, nor a martial artist.

He also looks for Pokemon who are reliably getting promoted by Game Freak, which might be why he's taken a liking to starters recently. The anime is also a strong indicator of which Pokemon could be chosen, as Ivysaur is the only Pokemon thus far that hasn't done anything notable in the anime despite getting in Smash (but even then, Pokemon Trainer is based off the same character as Ash).

which is a shame cause if was willing to go for PP youd hope wed willing to give the more unusual pokemon a try. as for the anime thing its not surprising though to be fair greninja's main anime thing came after smash, though if the anime thing does continue it looking good for scobunny and his evo's cause i dont think grookey and sobble have even appeared yet

 

[Guynamednelson]

greninja's main anime thing came after smash

Incineroar's inclusion on Ash's team feels rushed in to justify Sakurai choosing poorly.

 

[fogbadge]

Incineroar's inclusion on Ash's team feels rushed in to justify Sakurai choosing poorly.

i wouldnt know i cant bring myself to watch the episode where he evolves as i cant stand episodes that focus on kukui

 

[Cosmic77]

They usually have a general idea what the basic layout of the anime will be. I'm sure they were able to tell Sakurai that Ash would have a Froakie and a Litten. Whether or not they'd have known by then if either would evolve is up in the air, but I feel like both Greninja and Incineroar were planned from the very beginning (the latter because Rowlet sure as heck wasn't evolving so long as it stayed as the comic relief starter).

...while putting in a potted plant. This is part of the reason why I'm the inverse of all those people getting over Incineroar and ****ting on PP instead, because at least its moveset had to be made for it as opposed to one that could go on any wrestler.

Personally, I'm fine with both. I'm willing to cut Sakurai some slack over PP because I genuinely believe it has more moveset potential than Waluigi and even Geno. It has dozens upon dozens of different forms from over the years.

Incineroar wasn't my first choice, but I had always said it would be the most likely starter. I was somewhat prepared for it, even if I still think Incineroar was a bit bland. Then again, there aren't many notable Nintendo characters who are wrestlers.

 

[Guynamednelson]

even if I still think Incineroar was a bit bland

It'd be easier to think that if you didn't love it just for being a Pokemon added during its gen.

 

[Cosmic77]

It'd be easier to think that if you didn't love it just for being a Pokemon added during its gen.

Not sure why you keep drawing that conclusion when you were (and still are) supporting Pokemon from Gen 7 and 8.

Yes, I do think it's a good idea to focus on the latest Gen, but that's mainly because Pokemon Gens come and go. If we keep looking back to older Gens for characters, we're gonna create a gap that'll get bigger and bigger with each Smash game. Heck, if we don't get a Gen 8 rep in this game, then we're probably not getting another Pokemon in Smash until Gen 10. That's six years completely unrepresented. Choose an older Pokemon as the newcomer for the next Smash, and we might be looking at 13-15 years unrepped.

Regardless, Incineroar's age has very little to do with me being okay with his inclusion. I genuinely like his design, and while I do think he was bland compared to what we could've got, he was still a decent Pokemon to rep Gen 7.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Not sure why you keep drawing that conclusion when you were (and still are) supporting Pokemon from Gen 7 and 8.

In gen 7's case, it's because Mimikyu and Lycanroc can have better merit than "we have to add a new Pokemon because it's new". For 8, it's more like I'd tolerate certain Pokemon from it.

Besides, there's more to a Pokemon than its gen. If your complaint about something like a Poke Ball getting promoted as DLC is "we might never get a gen 8 Pokemon" then you need to look beyond quotas and consider other merits for another Pokemon getting in.

 

[fogbadge]

They usually have a general idea what the basic layout of the anime will be. I'm sure they were able to tell Sakurai that Ash would have a Froakie and a Litten. Whether or not they'd have known by then if either would evolve is up in the air, but I feel like both Greninja and Incineroar were planned from the very beginning (the latter because Rowlet sure as heck wasn't evolving so long as it stayed as the comic relief starter).



Personally, I'm fine with both. I'm willing to cut Sakurai some slack over PP because I genuinely believe it has more moveset potential than Waluigi and even Geno. It has dozens upon dozens of different forms from over the years.

Incineroar wasn't my first choice, but I had always said it would be the most likely starter. I was somewhat prepared for it, even if I still think Incineroar was a bit bland. Then again, there aren't many notable Nintendo characters who are wrestlers.

I always got the impression that they were winging it with the anime

also a lot of rhythm paradise fans would dispute that no other notable Nintendo wrestlers

 

[Guynamednelson]

also a lot of rhythm paradise fans would dispute that no other notable Nintendo wrestlers

And NES fans.

 

[fogbadge]

And NES fans.

and hawlucha fans as well

 

[LukeRNG]

Incineroar's inclusion on Ash's team feels rushed in to justify Sakurai choosing poorly.

Not sure if they even care for what smash bros does (because they could've easily evolved it way before the final few episodes if they did care), but i will say there was no point for Torracat to evolve, especially the way it did. To faint after evolution was very strange and made no sense.
Incineroar did absolutely 0 fights after evolving.

And regarding the character itself (hopefully the last time we talk about it cause i feel it's running dry at this point and may come off as whinning to others), i'm fine with Incineroar. Not the most creative or innovative moveset but serviceable and fun to play.
I really do wish for a more interesting pick this time, cause i do think i'll be genuinely underwhelmed by someone like Rillaboom or Cinderace. Inteleon gets a pass for personal bias. Urshifu & Obstagoon i'm more neutral about. And Toxtricity would be the best case scenario from the bipedal perspective.

Pokemon that I could really get behind are Dragapult & Zacian/Zamazenta.

 

[Guynamednelson]

hopefully the last time we talk about it cause i feel it's running dry at this point and may come off as whinning to others

Yeah, I'm sorry about all this debating. Me and Cosmic clearly can't come to an agreement when he focuses too much on filling out gen quotas while I am insistent on a Pokemon newcomer that'd be the extreme opposite of Incineroar, like Eevee. Or picking one of Gen 7's proper mascots for better reasons than "it's new".

 

[LukeRNG]

Yeah, I'm sorry about all this debating. Me and Cosmic clearly can't come to an agreement when he focuses too much on filling out gen quotas while I am insistent on a Pokemon newcomer that'd be the extreme opposite of Incineroar, like Eevee. Or picking one of Gen 7's proper mascots for better reasons than "it's new".

While i'd also like to talk about a past gen pokemon for it's high potential for uniqueness & being different (there's quite many i'd like to discuss at some point), the reality is that they most likely will never pick a pokemon from a past gen. The Pokemon Company could have a major imput on what pokemon gets into smash bros., which would prevent a past gen pokemon getting in because of each gen swapping out the majority of it's cast of pokemon from the spotlight.

The only way we could potentially get a past gen pokemon is if one gets the same level of support as King K Rool, Ridley & Banjo did. Or if Sakurai can pull a Terry and just ditch the relevancy & popularity out of the equation in favor of pure uniqueness. But the majority of smash fans don't care for what pokemon gets in for simply not following the series for a long time (which leads to their expectations & standards for a pokemon character being low).

And our focus in this thread is supporting a pokemon who is from the current generation along with it's competition, so constantly bringing up past gens can get off topic sometimes.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The Pokemon Company could have a major imput on what pokemon gets into smash bros., which would prevent a past gen pokemon getting in because of each gen swapping out the majority of it's cast of pokemon from the spotlight

They would know they promote certain mons besides the latest hotness.

Or if Sakurai can pull a Terry and just ditch the relevancy & popularity out of the equation in favor of pure uniqueness.

Terry, alongside Isabelle, is more about acknowledging his mascot status, regardless of demand. Of course, being the mascot isn't everything when Sakurai chose Slime over Hero, but that could do with having a full body rather than just being a head.

But you're right about

And our focus in this thread is supporting a pokemon who is from the current generation along with it's competition, so constantly bringing up past gens can get off topic sometimes.

It's just that there's not enough activity in those threads compared to threads for other characters that deserve promotion from item/spirit hell. It's also because Sakurai sticking to whatever new starter's the most human is just as bad for my desire for Pokemon that are far more deserving and/or potentially competitively viable than Incineroar as it is for your desire for the legendary wolves.