The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

Which would you rather see get in Smash as a newcomer?

  • Zacian

  • Zamazenta


Results are only viewable after voting.

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
7,145
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
I know it may be difficult to say now, but how likely is it that the first dlc from vol. 2 is a pokemon character? Don't know what else they could kick it off with to incentivise buying the season pass, like what Joker did.

Also gotta wonder when the next big nintendo direct will release now that January is basically over.
I don't think it's very likely, and if I had to take a wild guess, I'd say we wouldn't get one until Fighter #3 onward.

We're probably getting our first or second fighter at E3, and historically, that's where they bring out the big guns (the highlights of each batch of characters). I doubt an 11th Pokemon is the high point of this second pass.
 

LukeRNG

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
337
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
Just out of curiousity, what would be the worst case scenario for Zacian/Zamazenta and their chances?
 
Last edited:

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
7,145
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
Just out of curiousity, what would be the worst case scenario for Zacian/Zamazenta and their chances?
Worst case scenario for their chances is the same as any other Pokemon during a speculation cycle: a different Pokemon getting in. Next would be SwSh content like stages, music, Pokeballs, etc., being randomly added.

Aside from that, can't think of anything else. The existing Spirits don't do them any good, but at least there's several ways they can be worked around.
 

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
7,145
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
Some interesting new developments.


Seems like Nintendo chose Byleth specifically, even though Sakurai wanted someone else.
 

fogbadge

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
8,168
Location
Scotland
Some interesting new developments.


Seems like Nintendo chose Byleth specifically, even though Sakurai wanted someone else.
that sounds so much like hes deflecting blame
 

Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,760
Location
St. Louis, MO
NNID
Delzethin
Some interesting new developments.


Seems like Nintendo chose Byleth specifically, even though Sakurai wanted someone else.
Looks like this one's being interpreted in several different ways based on what each person reading already believed. Some are using it as "proof" that Byleth was nothing more than a shill pick. I read it as Sakurai saying "no, my personal bias didn't influence who we chose, we have a decision process" because that's what I've been trying to point out myself.

And apparently the translations we have so far were rushed, so we don't actually know if they're worded properly yet.


Not really Push's fault, though. Apparently the reason why he rushed out a quick take of the part that leaked ahead of time is because a different translator jumped the gun first with a shakier version.

For what it's worth, he himself thinks it was referencing accusations of "Sakurai bias", not why Byleth was chosen in particular.


Not that it's prevented some news groups from reacting to the first translation and jumping to conclusions, because goddamnit.


This is going to be a mess, I can already tell...


Just out of curiousity, what would be the worst case scenario for Zacian/Zamazenta and their chances?
Right now? Some kind of statement from Sakurai that outright says spirits are ineligible, I suppose.

Here's something interesting regarding Spirits.

View attachment 260233

They updated the name of a Spirit from the base game to avoid confusion, and this is due to a character in the first pass. Byleth was decided on before Ultimate even launched, meaning that at the very least, Dimitri (Zelda) could've been distinguished in the base game. Seems like they purposely avoided that to avoid raising suspicions.

Not the same as a preexisting Spirit becoming a fighter, but this helps our case regardless.
Well, it might be a bit more complicated than that. Back during Smash 4's DLC, development on Corrin seems to not have started until some time between April and June of 2015, as Corrin's placeholder data didn't show up in the game files until the update in June. Given the circumstances, it seems like they set aside a placeholder for "first party character from a relevant title", then waited several months until the spring before deciding who within that niche to choose. Given Byleth's similar circumstances, it's plausible that they did the same thing for Season 1 of Ultimate's DLC. If this theory is true, then Byleth was not chosen before the base game was out, and wasn't for another several months.

And either way, the accompanying spirits wouldn't have been set up until at least around when development on Byleth began.

But what this does mean is they had no problem with going back and updating older spirits' names after the fact when a new situation came up. And since there's a pretty fair chance the SwSh spirit event was a Season 1 creation, Season 2 is another new situation.

Well, at the very least, now they could differentiate by using "Zacian (Pokémon)" and "Zacian (Fighter)", for example.
 

LukeRNG

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
337
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
Looks like this one's being interpreted in several different ways based on what each person reading already believed. Some are using it as "proof" that Byleth was nothing more than a shill pick. I read it as Sakurai saying "no, my personal bias didn't influence who we chose, we have a decision process" because that's what I've been trying to point out myself.

And apparently the translations we have so far were rushed, so we don't actually know if they're worded properly yet.


Not really Push's fault, though. Apparently the reason why he rushed out a quick take of the part that leaked ahead of time is because a different translator jumped the gun first with a shakier version.

For what it's worth, he himself thinks it was referencing accusations of "Sakurai bias", not why Byleth was chosen in particular.


Not that it's prevented some news groups from reacting to the first translation and jumping to conclusions, because goddamnit.


This is going to be a mess, I can already tell...



Right now? Some kind of statement from Sakurai that outright says spirits are ineligible, I suppose.


Well, it might be a bit more complicated than that. Back during Smash 4's DLC, development on Corrin seems to not have started until some time between April and June of 2015, as Corrin's placeholder data didn't show up in the game files until the update in June. Given the circumstances, it seems like they set aside a placeholder for "first party character from a relevant title", then waited several months until the spring before deciding who within that niche to choose. Given Byleth's similar circumstances, it's plausible that they did the same thing for Season 1 of Ultimate's DLC. If this theory is true, then Byleth was not chosen before the base game was out, and wasn't for another several months.

And either way, the accompanying spirits wouldn't have been set up until at least around when development on Byleth began.

But what this does mean is they had no problem with going back and updating older spirits' names after the fact when a new situation came up. And since there's a pretty fair chance the SwSh spirit event was a Season 1 creation, Season 2 is another new situation.

Well, at the very least, now they could differentiate by using "Zacian (Pokémon)" and "Zacian (Fighter)", for example.
What other official art is there of Zacian & Zamazenta?
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Master
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
3,213
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
NNID
Nelson340
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
What other official art is there of Zacian & Zamazenta?
Bulbapedia doesn't have the art yet, but Dream World artwork still exists for Galar Pokemon, as featured on their plush tags.
 

Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,760
Location
St. Louis, MO
NNID
Delzethin
What other official art is there of Zacian & Zamazenta?
Bulbapedia doesn't have the art yet, but Dream World artwork still exists for Galar Pokemon, as featured on their plush tags.
They could also just use the Ultimate renders if necessary. Has already been done for Robin (who doesn't have official art from Awakening proper) and Cloud (because...the Final Fantasy side of Square-Enix was stingy, I guess).
 

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
7,145
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
What other official art is there of Zacian & Zamazenta?
I could compile them all in to one post, but I don't think it's necessary. I'll just list a few.

As stated by Guynamednelson, there's the Dream World artwork that can be found on the tags of the plushies. It's the same style that every other Pokemon Spirit has. There's also the boxart, and a rear view that was made for a promotional poster. And of course, there's anything involving their Hero of Many Battles forms if that gets implemented somehow.

So clearly a lack of artwork should never be a concern for these two. There's actually a lot more I didn't mention, but those are what I think have the best chance.
 

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
7,145
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
I was thinking of commissioning TKOwl for a Zacian moveset illustration. Would anyone like to contribute by sharing some of their ideas for alts, attacks, etc.? I might add a few to what I've already got if I really like them.
 

LukeRNG

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
337
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
I'll see what i can do with alts. I've already experimented with other alt edits of other pokemon (and most of them i'd say look great).

So far the only ideas I have is the shiny colors & alts based on the other canine pokemon. From here it's just trying them out and if i'm not happy with it, then i'll make original colors.
 
Last edited:

LukeRNG

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
337
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
I'll keep them a surprise and share them once the commission is done. I think everyone will be satisfied with them, along with the rest of the commission.

Here's a tiny sneak peak though. It's part of the Final Smash.

View attachment 261468
Nonetheless, there's an idea outside what i said that i wanna try with Zacian & Zamazenta alts.
Looking foward to seeing the final comission though. Zacian looks adorable.
 
Last edited:

LukeRNG

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
337
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
I'm been curious to ask something regarding the recent games. This came up after finaly seeing someone call them ''EA pokemon''.

Do you think pokemon games have been getting very expensive, perhaps too expensive?
 
Last edited:

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
7,145
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
I'm been curious to ask something regarding the recent games. This came up after finaly seeing someone call them ''EA pokemon''.

Do you think pokemon games have been getting very expensive, perhaps too expensive?
They're expensive, yes, but this isn't anything new. Even if you buy both games, the DLC, and Pokemon Home you're still looking at a price that's just a little bit more than SuMo.

SuMo - $165

Sun - $40
Moon - $40
Ultra Sun - $40
Ultra Moon - $40
Bank - $5

SwSh - $200

Sword - $60
Shield - $60
Sword DLC - $30
Shield DLC - $30
Home - $20

If these were handheld games, the prices would be almost identical. People are just using this to gripe about Home's price tag.
 

LukeRNG

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
337
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
Zacian's moveset illustration is coming along nicely. Since it's taking a while to complete, I'll go ahead and share the main artwork and alts. Hope you like it so far.

View attachment 262204
Those colors look amazing.

And thankfully not the colors i was trying out. Should i still finish those or are we sticking to these? I'm fine either way.
 
Last edited:

Staarih

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
2,378
Location
Finland
The silhouette looks interesting, curious to see what it turns out to look like. Whatever it turns out to be, it having a starring role in the next Pokémon movie will definitely have Smash speculators place it among the potential Pokémon newcomers, regardless of timing or the fact that the next fighters have been picked already,
 

LukeRNG

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
337
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
I just had the weirdest dream. It featured me reacting to the new character reveal and it being Rillaboom. Let's say i was suprisingly dissapointed with the moveset.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
24,030
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
All I gotta say, catching Pokémon in these new games is sometimes a straight up pain in the ass.
 

Staarih

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
2,378
Location
Finland
The actual catching. Took me around 25 Great Balls to catch a level 31 Kingler for example. Whilst having less than 10 HP no less.
Yeah, it can be a pain. I read somewhere that if your Pokémon are at a lower level than the wild Pokémon, catching is harder, and if they're at a higher level it is easier. I dunno if it's really a thing but once I began to send out my higher level Pokémon for catching it definitely became easier.
 
Last edited:

Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,760
Location
St. Louis, MO
NNID
Delzethin
Great then. I'm half way done with Zacian's.

Also other stuff, we have the silhouette of the new mythical pokemon from corocoro.
The silhouette looks interesting, curious to see what it turns out to look like. Whatever it turns out to be, it having a starring role in the next Pokémon movie will definitely have Smash speculators place it among the potential Pokémon newcomers, regardless of timing or the fact that the next fighters have been picked already,
Yeah, T-minus about two weeks before people start expecting it to be shoved in as a "promotional" pick. Its actual chances will depend on a lot of stuff lining up right, especially its typing and movepool. Hard to say what a character's chances are when we don't even know what they can do yet!

Zacian has really taken off in Japan. The Pokemon Center Mega store in Tokyo, the largest Pokemon Center in the region, has a new mascot.

View attachment 262269
Well, that's a welcome surprise...albeit one that probably doesn't affect Smash chances much beyond further proof of being notable enough to likely be one of the mons considered. How often do the stores change mascots, anyway?

Though all of this does have me wondering about one possible scenario that isn't being brought up anywhere. We know the usual way Pokémon newcomers are handled in Smash is to set a placeholder aside and then narrow down exactly who they want later on. What if something like that happens here? What if they set up a Gen 8 placeholder when they locked in most of Season 2, decided they wanted it to be Fighter #8 or so, but are waiting to commit to someone specific until right before development on them begins? It's happened at least once with DLC before--Corrin's placeholder data in Smash 4 didn't show up until an update in June of 2015, and (iirc) Sakurai said the team waited a while into DLC before they narrowed down the "first party from a very recent game" niche they wanted to include. Might've happened again this time with Byleth, even.
 
Last edited:

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
7,145
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
Well, that's a welcome surprise...albeit one that probably doesn't affect Smash chances much beyond further proof of being notable enough to likely be one of the mons considered. How often do the stores change mascots, anyway?
Not sure, but I do know that this particular store's mascot was previously Mega Charizard.

pokemon-mega-center-tokyo.jpg


Seeing how Megas have sort of been shoved out of Pokemon games, I can see why they may have wanted a new mascot. No clue on how long Zacian will represent the store, but it's still a nice honor regardless.

Though all of this does have me wondering about one possible scenario that isn't being brought up anywhere. We know the usual way Pokémon newcomers are handled in Smash is to set a placeholder aside and then narrow down exactly who they want later on. What if something like that happens here? What if they set up a Gen 8 placeholder when they locked in most of Season 2, decided they wanted it to be Fighter #8 or so, but are waiting to commit to someone specific until right before development on them begins? It's happened at least once with DLC before--Corrin's placeholder data in Smash 4 didn't show up until an update in June of 2015, and (iirc) Sakurai said the team waited a while into DLC before they narrowed down the "first party from a very recent game" niche they wanted to include. Might've happened again this time with Byleth, even.
It's possible, but I don't think many people outside those supporting a Pokemon character are gonna give it much credit. Our first and biggest challenge to convincing people the Legendaries still have a chance is showing them proof that the Spirits aren't the death of them.

Personally, I think anyone who still thinks a Gen 8 Pokemon is possible should give them a chance. Doesn't make much sense to argue, "The Gen 8 Spirits don't deconfirm a Gen 8 Pokemon, but they do deconfirm specific Pokemon like Zacian and Zamazenta."
 
Last edited:

Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,760
Location
St. Louis, MO
NNID
Delzethin
It's possible, but I don't think many people outside those supporting a Pokemon character are gonna give it much credit. Our first and biggest challenge to convincing people the Legendaries still have a chance is showing them proof that the Spirits aren't the death of them.

Personally, I think anyone who still thinks a Gen 8 Pokemon is possible should give them a chance. Doesn't make much sense to argue, "The Gen 8 Spirits don't deconfirm a Gen 8 Pokemon, but they do deconfirm specific Pokemon like Zacian and Zamazenta."
I think the bigger hurdle is getting more people to realize Zacian and Zamazenta are actually possible options, much less plausible. Smash speculators tend to lock in on a few specific mons each time around and hardly look beyond them--right now it seems to be the Galar starters, Toxcricity, and Urshifu, which is actually more than usual. Shout out to Smash 4 speculation, where it was 30% Zoroark, 65% Mewtwo returning with a Mega form, and 5% anyone else.

Breaking through that will be very difficult. As you and I both know from two years ago.

Though Sakurai decides stuff independently from what the community thinks anyway, but it'd still be nice to have people on our side for once.
 
Last edited:

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
7,145
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
I've seen a few people poking fun at Mega Charizard Y for being replaced by Zacian.

EQ4oIDPU4AA1XZ7.jpeg.jpg


I can't understand the conversations, but it seems like they're happy with Zacian.

I think the bigger hurdle is getting more people to realize Zacian and Zamazenta are actually possible options, much less plausible. Smash speculators tend to lock in on a few specific mons each time around and hardly look beyond them--right now it seems to be the Galar starters, Toxcricity, and Urshifu, which is actually more than usual. Shout out to Smash 4 speculation, where it was 30% Zoroark, 65% Mewtwo returning with a Mega form, and 5% anyone else.

Breaking through that will be very difficult. As you and I both know from two years ago.

Though Sakurai decides stuff independently from what the community thinks anyway, but it'd still be nice to have people on our side for once.
The fanbase rarely supports the Pokemon that ends up becoming the newcomer, so I don't take offense to anyone who dismisses Zacian and Zamazenta. Yeah, having more supporters would be wonderful and add more discussion to this thread, but ultimately, it shouldn't matter in the long run. Either we celebrate with dozens of supporters and share the excitement, or we take pleasure in knowing only a handful of people were supporting them prior to their reveal - a true underdog story.

I will say though, Byleth was a step in the right direction. At least now we have more people thinking a Gen 8 Pokemon can actually happen. A little over a month ago, people thought it was dead in the water with every other first and second-party franchise.
 

LukeRNG

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
337
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
I must say, it's vey interesting that Sakurai has these things to say so early on:


-There's currently no plans for more dlc after volume 2.
-Once again Nintendo picked the characters.
-There's no plans for the future smash bros. games.

I'm pretty sure at this point it's too soon to even set anything else in stone given volume 2 lasts 2 years and it hasn't started yet. I guess they want to see how well this dlc will sell to see if they should continue making more or move on. Though I kinda don't want another game unless they make a drastic change to the smash formula and revamp many character movesets.

That being said, given Nintendo is picking the characters again that does give us hope that they'll look at Pokemon Sword & Shield for a potential character.
 
Top