The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (USE SPOILER TAGS)

[Deo_Smash]

Speaking of Ganondorf, has he yet to reach his full power? Of all the Zelda games I've played, I've always felt that he could do more. Is he holding back or is what we see what we get? Maybe we'll see something awsoume come from the works of Ganondorf this time around. What exactly is anyones guess.

 

[Zink]

Yeah, he always seems to be just a presence. I'd like to see him making war plans, riding at the head of his army, maybe fight Link multiple times... he is kind of like just a boss now, and for the incarnation of evil, we don't have that much trouble beating him... I read the enemies and bosses will be a lot tougher in this game, finally.

 

[Giygas]

Definitely agree with you there. He simply needs to be more evil. I'm not talking about kidnap-the-princess evil. I'm talking about burning down villages and destroying everything in his path to get what he wants, mercilessly killing innocent civilians. And then use that to stir the emotions in the player. There's nothing more badass than revenge, especially on Link's part. All of the NPCs that we care about, nothing ever happens to them. Make them die. Have Link stumble upon Lon Lon ranch to find everyone slaughtered. Give the hero rage, some kind of motivation other than the fact that he's the "chosen one who has to save the world", which was never very personal.

Lol, sorry. Got a bit carried away there.

 

[Deo_Smash]

Oh no, I agree. We need something more "emotional" to get attached with Link. In WW, I felt sad when I saw Link wave bye to his grandma and seeing grandma all sad made me sad, I just wanted to cry ! The way Nintendo is putting more charecter into the Zelda games will most likely get us more attached to NPC. And yes, Ganondorf needs to be more "evil". He's already freaking strong now he just needs to use it unmerciless. What I think would be freaky if Ganondorf got ahold of the Ocarina of Time or the Master Sword! My god! What would we do?

 

[XXII]

No need to apologise, Giygas. I think we all get a little carried away in Zelda games. At least I do, hah. Sometimes- no - MANY times I end up yelling at the screen. There is a great need for more of Ganondorf's story. It's always just "I want power cause I'm bad and...er.......BAD!!!"


On an entirely different subject, does anybody else suspect that Midna is just another Sheik/King of Red Lions type character? Isn't she just gonna end up being Zelda/anybody else in disguise?

 

[Deo_Smash]

No I don't. I think Mida is herself. She seems to be from the twilight world. My guess that she's the ruler of the twilight world, or maybe a fourth goddess (hinting at the upside-down triforce on the Hyrule Sheild), or maybe none of the above but I'm betting she's her own charecter. Besides, the whole shiek/Tetra thing is getting old. Zelda seems to be herself in this one, that I've learnt up to this point. And Ganondorf needs to be more "bad" or simply flat out evil for his goals. There did seem to be a evil but compasionat ruler of Ganondorf shown towards the end of Wind Waker. I can't remember what he said exactly but his words made me feel like he CARED for the Gerudo Tribe. That the "winds allways brought death" and how the rest of Hyrule florished with life and he wante: A) that life for the Gerudo or B) the rest of Hyrule to feel the death that the Gerudo felt. Most likely B. Then he went nutso on Link. YEAH! Open forhead, insert sword = pain.

 

[Destiny Smasher]

Yea, but I kind of liked that. Ganondorf can't just be evil for no reason. That's stupid, cliche, and makes no sense.

Every realistic villain needs a motive of some kind. At least they gave him one that made some sense.

Spoiler...guess...thing...

Spoiler

If I had to place my bet, I'd sat that Midna is the Twilight Princess. Ya know how Link changes into a wolf in the Twilight Realm? Is it feasibly impossible that Midna is, in fact, the Master Sword when in the Light Realm? *shrugs* I think it's a cool idea, at least.

 

[XXII]

Nah...I think your "spoiler..guess...thing" is a little bit radical for LoZ. But who knows? Could be.

I think Deo Smash is on to something with the upside down triangle thing. Like maybe Midna is the only goddess of the Twighlight Realm, and she is just as powerful as Nayru, Farore, and Din put together?

The thing that really puzzles me is Midna's headdress thing. How it's like made of stone? And that she only has one eye? What's up with that? MAYBE she's Ganondorf when he is in the Twighlight Realm.

 

[Cashed]

Use the

Spoiler

tags, not !

 

[Zink]

Spoiler

how would Gannondorf become a girl? and didn't NP say Zelda was the Twilight Princess?

The upside down triangle and "quadroforce" theory is oft mentioned, and in my opinion absurd.
Occam's razor eliminates it. why invent a fourth force when there are less artificial explanations?

 

[DarkLink567]

The upside-down triangle on the Hylian Shield is gone from the TP version. I doubt it meant anything significant probably just a design on the shield to fill it up.

Ganondorf had reason to want to claim Hyrule originally for the Gerudo clan because he felt that they needed a better home, where they weren't just punished by the nature of the desert. As time passed and WW came about, the Gerudo had dissapeared [somewhere] so in the end Ganondorf had nothing left but Hyrule itself.

Ganondorf's been trying to get the Triforce all the way through OoT and WW, possibly TP inbetween. Just as he was about to obtain the wish from the Triforce in WW it was taken from him. He went cucco at that point.

I believe that Ganon had good intent for his people but in the end it became a petty obsession and a "little" over the top.

 

[XXII]

I'm not talking about the shield...I mean the triforce by itself. It forms an upside down triangle in the middle of it. They might connect this to Midna somehow.

 

[Zink]

Darklink, that's a pretty dang good psychoanalysis.
Why wiuld the upside down Triforec affect Midna? And notice the name- TRIforce.
BTW, all you people who subscribe to the Revolution thread, Cashed banned me.. Because I suggested voicechat on the computer during playing on the Rev. So you won't see me post there anymore. just fyi.

 

[Deo_Smash]

WTF? You had good opionions! I'm going to ask and see if I can get you back on there. I havn't check yet but I hope I havn't been ban there as well.

Since when did they remove the fourth triforce on the shield? I could've sworn that it was there in WW. Maybe I'm just seeing things. But I'm too speculating that Mida has something to do with that void in the triforce shape. She's going to leave an impact in the Zelda universe as big as when Ganondorf was first revealed in Ocarina of Time. Look how quickly he was taken up and loved by all zelda fans. Pherhaps we'll see mida in future Zelda games, if she lives through this one.

 

[Zink]

Deo the banned thing was cleared up. It was sarcasm lol.
Anyway, I noticed this: In Oot Ganondorf was very evil and malevolent. In WW we saw the compassionate side, which is destroyed by WW Link pwning him. What made this good side of him appear? The events of Twilight Princess.

 

[Mic_128]

I mean the triforce by itself. It forms an upside down triangle in the middle of it.

Also, the triforce itself makes a big triangle, so there's actually 5 parts.

 

[DarkLink567]

EDIT: Look at what I do, I rush my post and end up leaving out half the stuff I was meant to write.

I could swear Deo was talking about the triangle on the shield, he did mention it in the sentence, maybe I'm wrong. All these facts about the amount of triangles visible in the triforce reminds me of Math class, they've always had activities like those counting the amount of shapes in a larger 2D figure. (Who remembers doing those?)

Some of you people put to much thought into Midna. She's most likely a resident of the Twilight (it's safe to say that the Twilight is not it's own realm) in Hyrule who might have a small impact in the game story, maybe in a KORL fashion.

 

[Chill]

Anyway, I noticed this: In Oot Ganondorf was very evil and malevolent. In WW we saw the compassionate side, which is destroyed by WW Link pwning him. What made this good side of him appear? The events of Twilight Princess.

I don't know about that. I think they just wanted to alter Ganondorfs character a bit to give him more emotion. When OoT was made they didn't need to give him a reason to be evil he just was. By the time WW came around they wanted to give him a motive. In TP he may be back to being just evil again.

Or not. Maybe he and Link will even fight side by side against the Twilight. Ganondorf can't rule Hyrule if it doesn't exist.

 

[Destiny Smasher]

Ya know, I was thinking...If Link turns into a wolf in the Twilight Realm, maybe that has something to do with Ganon being a pig? *shrug*

DarkLink: I don't think I'm putting too much thought into Midna. If Nintendo has any intelligence at all, they'll do things right this time around and make your side-kick an actual character with bearing to the story. Midna has that potential, I think. Besides, someone has to be the Twilight Princess, and so help me, if it's as simple as Zelda being that person, and that being it, I will be sorely disappointed, because that's the cliche, obvious way out.

If Nintendo wants this to be THE game of the year and THE Zelda game, it has to have a good story with good, well-developed characters and some surprises around. They've already 'promised' that Ganon will give us more than we can possibly, ever, ever expect.

 

[XXII]

Yeah, DarkLink, he did mention the shield but I was thinking more about the upside down triangle in the middle. And, yeah, I do remember those triforces in Geometry class. We went over that only about a month ago hah.

DestinySmasher, I think that is also an interesting idea about the pig. Otherwise, why the heck do they portray Ganon as a pig in WW?

 

[Chill]

Maybe because Ganon has always been a pig. Even in OoT when Ganondorf transformed into Ganon he became a pig. Although he was a much more monstrous version then had ever been seen before.

 

[DarkLink567]

I guess they portrayed him as a pig because of what Chill said or possibly to make him look a bit more "evil". Why put a picture of a human-looking gerudo when you can put this beast into the picture which makes Ganon seem all that more evil looking.

 

[Chaotic Yoshi]

haven't posted in forever... years really

I'm guessing freezing over zora's domain and freezing the zora's to death wasn't evil enough. Or starving the gorons from their only food supply doesn't work to well either. Apparently you need the see the bloodshed to get the feel for it.

 

[Destiny Smasher]

Darn right ya do.
I dunno...Ganondorf scares me more than that friggin' pig thing does...I mean, the only reason the pig thing is scary is 'cuz he's big. Otherwise, he's just fugly.

 

[blaksheap82]

Ya know, I was thinking...If Link turns into a wolf in the Twilight Realm, maybe that has something to do with Ganon being a pig? *shrug*

Um, wasn't it already stated from Nin that Ganondorf becomes Pig-Ganon in the Twilight? I could be confusing conjecture and speculation with confirmed facts, but I rarely do that, I have a very good memory.

DarkLink: I don't think I'm putting too much thought into Midna. If Nintendo has any intelligence at all, they'll do things right this time around and make your side-kick an actual character with bearing to the story. Midna has that potential, I think. Besides, someone has to be the Twilight Princess, and so help me, if it's as simple as Zelda being that person, and that being it, I will be sorely disappointed, because that's the cliche, obvious way out.

If Nintendo wants this to be THE game of the year and THE Zelda game, it has to have a good story with good, well-developed characters and some surprises around. They've already 'promised' that Ganon will give us more than we can possibly, ever, ever expect.

I agree with this entire quote. I honestly think Midna is Zelda, also the TP, but I don't want to see that cliche of Zelda having a dual identity continue. (I actually suggested that with one of my first posts in this thread a couple months ago, but whatever, it doesn't bother me.) I want to see a deeper and more thought out story, not the same plot recycled. And for anyone who doesn't think that Midna is Zelda, the same designs on the back of Zelda's funeral robe in the trailer are on Midna's headpiece, as well as the headpiece being in the TP logo.

 

[Mic_128]

Um, wasn't it already stated from Nin that Ganondorf becomes Pig-Ganon in the Twilight?

Nope.

I honestly think Midna is Zelda

The fact that it's been said by Nin that she's from wherever the twilight originated from (along with the wierd things that drop in through the hole in the sky) AND the fact that she's in a tower wearing a cloak that protects her from the twilight...

 

[blaksheap82]

I didn't hear anything about the robe protecting her from the Twilight. That argument sounds too fluffy to me, really; a good plot twist or two could easily explain that away. And how do things "frop" out of the sky?

 

[Mic_128]

It was a typo. Byte me.

 

[Resting_Fox]

Anyway, I noticed this: In Oot Ganondorf was very evil and malevolent. In WW we saw the compassionate side, which is destroyed by WW Link pwning him. What made this good side of him appear? The events of Twilight Princess.

This is exactly what I'm imagining it is. Really, who would ever think to have Ganondorf fight alongside Link? Maybe that's the big surprise, the backing behind the hype. If Ganondorf is helping Link in TP, I would think of it as a perfect way to switch things up without being cliche at all.

Also, I think if the game ends in disaster, i.e. the flooding of hyrule, it would be something totally different, totally new and unexpected to the average fan. Also, it would have the same sort of artistic expression that has been showing up in Zelda games. We all know that art is full of symbolism and I saw a lot of symbolism in Majora's Mask and Wind Waker. But I'll only list a few to cut back on words

The Giants saving the world from utter destruction seems to me like a symbol of Nintendo’s great franchises keeping them aloft in the vastly competitive market.

The flooding of Hyrule and the conversation of the king at the end seemed to me to be a statement about Miyamoto's being bound by Hyrule, wanting to end it already.

And look, in TP, link has a chain of his foot, still expressing the same idea of captivity.

I honestly think this and the picture beside it are just Miyamoto's way of saying something. And that is, he's not only bound by the franchise but the fans as well, which is why he agreed to make this game more 'mature'. It was public demand. I dare say I'm not the only one who thinks Midna, in the second pic, looks less like a person with a hat than a person throwing their hands up in rage, a cel-shaded soul in a black and white world. And that's the beauty of art, the expressions behind them.

Basically, if TP had Ganon working alongside Link, and an ending that totally destroyed Hyrule. It would make a great ending for Zelda as we know it, and a great symbol for Nintendo's current struggle in the gaming industry...which, if you ask me, is a struggle they want to give up, but aren't willing to because of their fans. Just think about it, They're working with companies who were once enemies [Sega in GX, Capcom in Zelda] which would be Ganondorf, and they know that the world/market are starting to cave in on them. If not Nintendo entirely, then at least, the Zelda franchise.

BTW, who thinks the new, abstracted realism is one of the best art forms for Zelda yet? Much better than cel-shading., and it goes along with Nintendo’s attitude.

 

[Mic_128]

And look, in TP, link has a chain of his foot, still expressing the same idea of captivity.

That's because that pic is taken afrer he breaks out of a prison.

 

[Chill]

I am also thinking(hoping) that Ganondorf will end up working with Link. It would be completly different and way less lame than Minda is Zelda.

BTW, who thinks the new, abstracted realism is one of the best art forms for Zelda yet? Much better than cel-shading., and it goes along with Nintendo’s attitude.

Me.

Also, there is some new Twilight Princess footage floating around. It doesn't contain any new cutscenes it's just spoiler free in-game action.

 

[Zink]

Who said Nintendo wants to give up? I mean, that's just absurd. Have you heard those guys? Not just Iwata and Reg, but things like Nintendo Power's interview with the assistant head programmer or something- they all really put their hearts into it.


BTW, I believe I was the first to suggest Ganonndorf and Link together a while back.

I take Paypal donations.

 

[Chill]

BTW, I believe I was the first to suggest Ganonndorf and Link together a while back.

I take Paypal donations.

Or not.

Maybe he and Link will even fight side by side against the Twilight. Ganondorf can't rule Hyrule if it doesn't exist.

Unless of course you vaugely mentioned it somewhere before. :D

 

[blaksheap82]

It was a typo. Byte me.

But you still didn't answer my question about the robe supposedly protecting Zelda from the twilight.

But now I thought of another one: In EGM last summer, Anouma said in an interview that he was surprised how many people liked Impa, and hinted at Impa showing up in TP. Also, the Wikipedia article on TP pointed out how the design on the back of Zelda's funeral robe is the Sheikah "signature", and is the same design on Midna's head gear. So it occurred to me that instead of using the same shtick three times in a row and giving Zelda a dual identity, Midna might really be Impa. I realize it sounds like I'm grasping at straws here, but I just really doubt Midna is an entirely new char.

Chill: On the Link/Ganondorf team-up, I can see that happening partway through the story, to fight whatever is causing the twilight to spread, but I can't see the game ending without a final battle between the two. Not to mention, an ending without Ganondorf threatening Hyrule would negate Hyrule being flooded at the end of TP, because of what the intro in WW says.

One final note, on Resting Fox's postulations about the art symbolizing Nin's and Miyamoto's angst and feelings of frustration, I really think he was mostly joking, because Nin is obviously not desiring to quit, but stays in just because of their fans. I do agree that this art style is the best yet, but you can't really compare this to the technology of the SNES, or even the N64, not that OoT wasn't revolutionary.

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

Shigs + CO. "Good idea guys! Let's revolutionise the gaming industry, add a whole new world of options for ourselves, have Zelda that would work awesomely with the revo control - then throw it all in the bin, but not until displaying how we feel with tedious little easteregg-esque symbols in our games. *Nintendo nods* "Yeah this smash revolution...I mean like smash bros is a popular game?" You're right we're all ganna be sad sad ppl.

 

[0celot]

Having Link and Ganondorf might be kinda cool but I believe that in doing so, the foundations of good and evil through which Zelda was built on from the very first game would be destroyed. Think about it. You have two sides. Link and Zelda on one side and Ganondorf on the other. Having them team up would leave the dark side with nothing. "You could make another villian." Yea you could. How successful would it be? Ganon/Ganondorf as a character has been building up for a long time. You could make another Evil character but all that we'd hear is "He's not as good as Ganon." It would ruin the Zelda series. You gotta have a memorable Hero in every video game for it to be successful. In the same way you need a memorable villian as well. Ganondorf is the only one to fill that slot. (I don't know how much longer they can drag using him out though)

 

[Mic_128]

Having Link and Ganondorf might be kinda cool but I believe that in doing so, the foundations of good and evil through which Zelda was built on from the very first game would be destroyed. Think about it. You have two sides. Link and Zelda on one side and Ganondorf on the other. Having them team up would leave the dark side with nothing.

Who says it has to be permanent? If the Twilight is going to destroy them both, they'd probably team up to stop it, then go back to fighting each other.

 

[ShinigamiKyosuke]

I second that. I think a temporary Ganon/Link team up would be pretty cool. And it's not as thought EVERY single Zelda game was Ganondorf/Ganon as the final boss or main bad guy. Zelda II, Link's Awakening, Four Swords on GBA, Majora's Mask, Oracle of Ages/Seasons without the link up or password thing, Minish Cap. I think Vaati's served a pretty good purpose as a lesser bad guy as of right now. As for the Midna = Impa theory, I think it sounds pretty good. I have no trouble believing Midna is a new character, though. She could be one of those one-game exclusives. Oh, and hey, is this game confirmed to take place between Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker? I've heard a lot of conflicting things stated as information. I've heard the between OoT and WW thing, I've heard direct sequel to WW (which I knew was BS ), I've heard takes place between WW and ALttP, I've heard everything. Is there any direct info from Aonuma or Shiggy or anyone that suggests or even confirms that it takes place between OoT and WW? If so, if someone could link me I'd be appreciative.

 

[Chill]

Gamespot had an interview with both Aonuma and Miyamoto back at E3.

the team was asked how the storyline of Twilight Princess fits into the overall narrative of the Zelda series. The response was that, chronologically speaking, this game takes place a few decades after Ocarina of Time, but before Wind Waker.

 

[Zink]

Guys, consider this: maybe you need to use the full power of the Triforce to banish Twilight: hence G-dorf (Triforce of Power), Link (probably will collect Triforce of Courage), and Zelda (Triforce of Wisdom). Than when Twilight is finished, they can go back to fighting each other.