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Legend of Zelda The Legend of Zelda: Group Project of Destiny- No longer active

Spire

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I have some questions..

1. Why are the last Hyruleans being raised as Sheikah?
2. What does it mean to be raised Sheikah? What do they teach?
3. What implications do being an assassin-like character constitute in this version of Hyrule? Why raise people as stealthy characters?

I think the Sheikah way should be more spiritual than combative, however given the treacherous world they live in, perhaps the Sheikah approach to combat has deemed most efficient. I don't want Link to be venturing around the world as some ****** assassin character. I want him to still be a humble adventurer, just with a stealthy edge.
 

#HBC | ZoZo

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What I was seeing is that the Sheikah saved the people last moment from the apocalypse, unveiling their underground network, which allowed them to keep their influence on Hyrule over the years. The people saved are raised into the Sheikah culture, a culture of magic and bloodshed. They killed monsters to protect peace for years and years, they've tortured people to assist the royal family. They're mean, sneaky and dark.

Because the people were saved and 'adopted' by the Sheikah, they had to adapt to Sheikah culture to survive. The underworld is far from safe, and everyone should be able to defend themselves. People are sent to the upper world to search for food, water and basically anything useful.

Considering the Sheikah have always been stealthy, they should remain being so. They were never noticed, and they didn't want to be. It's not all hubby hubby down there, it's harsh. The temperatures are cold as heck, there's hardly any food and water differs from place to place. If you want to be secure, you're gonna have to fix it yourself.
 
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X.X I have so much to catch-up on later tonight, but at least it will hopefully be full of ideas by then.

Sheikah's, in which games do they make an appearance? The only ones I recall offhand are Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword. I want to do a little digging on them for a bit for later.
 

Spire

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What I was seeing is that the Sheikah saved the people last moment from the apocalypse, unveiling their underground network, which allowed them to keep their influence on Hyrule over the years. The people saved are raised into the Sheikah culture, a culture of magic and bloodshed. They killed monsters to protect peace for years and years, they've tortured people to assist the royal family. They're mean, sneaky and dark.

Because the people were saved and 'adopted' by the Sheikah, they had to adapt to Sheikah culture to survive. The underworld is far from safe, and everyone should be able to defend themselves. People are sent to the upper world to search for food, water and basically anything useful.

Considering the Sheikah have always been stealthy, they should remain being so. They were never noticed, and they didn't want to be. It's not all hubby hubby down there, it's harsh. The temperatures are cold as heck, there's hardly any food and water differs from place to place. If you want to be secure, you're gonna have to fix it yourself.
Perfect explanation. I'm running on little sleep so I guess I forgot the scope. Yeah, this is a great foundation.

I'm so glad we see eye to eye on this idea.
X.X I have so much to catch-up on later tonight, but at least it will hopefully be full of ideas by then.

Sheikah's, in which games do they make an appearance? The only ones I recall offhand are Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword. I want to do a little digging on them for a bit for later.
The only Sheikah we've ever seen (as far as we know) are Impa, Sheik, and Impaz. Impa has appeared in multiple games, playing her most predominant roles in Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword. Sheik only appeared in OoT and turned out to be Zelda (though that was the inspiration for a multiracial Sheikah clan, as Zelda was Hylian yet learned the ways of the Sheikah). Impaz was a little old lady found in the Hidden Village in Twilight Princess. She was the last of the Sheikah in her time.

Remember, if we ultimately go with this setting it's not based in any of the timelines. Derivative of the series, but otherwise existing in our own timeline. If we really get this off the ground, we could potentially start writing our own timeline with our own legends.
 

#HBC | ZoZo

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There's Impa in LoZ.

And maybe the old man in the end of LoZ2.
Maybe even the old man in LoZ is a Sheikah. He has the signature red robes *shrug*
 

Spire

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Maybe the old man in the first cave in LoZ is a Sheikah because he too has red robes. lol

He gives you the wooden sword though!

I think we can agree that none of us have ever really seen the Sheikah. We've seen what they create: Kakariko, Hidden Village, Lens of Truth, Mask of Truth, Gossip Stones, Sheikah Stones, etc. They imbue these stones with magical personalities to what... constantly watch Link, to make sure he's doing what he needs to do?
 

Spire

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probably was. it shot magic beams

I'm probably gonna pass out soon. Brosuke, want to do a recap of all the ideas so far? You know, spend an hour or so going through everything, compiling it into a coherent list so others can hop on easily. I'm too painterly when I start writing, I just go on and on.

hahahaha how could I ask this of you. Please??

WHERE'S JAM
 

etecoon

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If you want to get into religious semantics, you could say that the Gorons were the new people chosen by the gods because of their nigh perfect habitation of said environment. The Hylia were once known as the people 'closest to the gods' but that status could be transfered to the Gorons given the radical environmental departure. Of course there's no proof of this godly connection, it's more or less metaphor.
I like this because we've seen this a lot, things happen and over time are attributed to the Gods but they never actually seem to directly intervene in the world of Hyrule, you only hear about it happening in the legends

Gerudo Desert as a swamp would be very acceptable. Perhaps the imbalance of water in this dried land has pushed intense storm clouds to the east, constantly circling the once-desert. The constant rain has carved away the dunes, creating a monsoon thwarted land with intense vegetation. An interesting idea, really. Hyrule proper and Gerudo Desert trade roles.
I also like this because it's kind of an evolution of LTTP dark world, Ganon coveted the more habitable atmosphere of Hyrule and in his dark realm the desert shoots to the complete opposite end of the spectrum

The weird has got to come back. I want the Hyrule Underground to be particularly bizarre. It's the underworld to the already quirky Hyrule. I'm not fond of typical sword and sorcery elements, so embellishing all things odd will lend a fantastical edge I think we need.
Good to see you're of the same mind, I love games that can take me to strange places and make me feel like I'm in another world. Probably a lot of why I love MM and LA. I also like how you can have the duality of having the above world be nostalgic of the now derelict Hyrule Kingdom, and then have the underworld be this new world full of weird animals and vegetation and fungus, though you have some of this on the surface as well particularly with Maro Woods and Gerudo Swamp

I'd like the Gerudo to be largely assimilated into the underground remnant culture. There may be some inhabiting the swampland that Gerudo Desert becomes as Amazonian-like women, a natural evolution of their culture.
This would be interesting. They disappear from the series at some point and LTTP implies that Ganondorf killed them himself, but another option is that they simply went underground.

Half of Link's inventory needs to be relative to items from the past for continuity's sake. He needs a new form of bombs (if this game is to be more stealthy, perhaps proximity-mine like bombs?), bow (mini wrist crossbow is perfect), claws (like the mole mitts, but used for climbing instead?), whip (ST and SS, it's here to stay), double hook/clawshot evolution... okay wait. I need to draw this, but maybe I can explain for the time being: on each arm, Link should have specialized gauntlets that serve different purposes, incorporating all the 'items' he finds in his quest. Since we're not developing this for the Wii, I'd like if Link was ambidextrous. What if each gauntlet could be customized with x amount of installable items? Assume that everything listed can be upgraded as well:

- Extensive Blade (juts out of the gauntlet, becomes a sword built into his arm)
- Armbow (built in crossbow; can launch bolts or bombs)
- Protective guard (shield)
- Clawshots
Good ideas all around

I'm keen on the Master Sword being used to unlock new areas, but Link cannot be carrying it around on his whole journey or else people will question why he's not using it as a sword. If the Master Sword is going to be in this tale, it must not be functional until the end of the game where even still, it may not be used as a weapon.
I think the idea of it breaking when you try to pull it is good, you wind up only carrying the hilt which still has some use for these other purposes

I want Link to wear green, but his scarfcape must be red.
Not sure I like this contrast, when I think of red and green I'm thinking christmas...and for video game characters I'm thinking Kefka...(or Tingle being that he has that red balloon...). What if he changed throughout the adventure to be one or the other at different times? In LoZ and LTTP you actually get more tunics that aren't green later on in the games, or maybe it could change depending on whether you're above ground or below?

There will definitely be new races. We kind of already have one: the Maro. To refresh on that, the Maro are the spiritual successors to the Deku: skeletal instead of wooden, fungal instead of shrubby. Kind of a hybrid between bone and mushrooms. They inhabit the Maro Woods though, so the underground will be new. As I previously mentioned as well, I would like to revive the Geozards from PH and ST to combat the Cave Zoras—which I imagine will resemble our sleek blue Zoras but perhaps characterized with glowing eyes or other distinguishable features apart from their past renditions. Oh, and I want to expand on the ever-evolving dominant "blin" race. Rather than reusing Moblins, Bulblins, Miniblins, Bokoblins, etc. I'd like to have a flying blin race, derivative of bats. They could be related to Keese. Keeblin? Since the Hyrule Underground involves a lot of verticality, they'd fit in just perfectly.
I like the idea with the Zora's. As I said, it seems they have accelerated evolution or maybe even an ability to change forms at will, maybe not within their own lives but maybe their reproductive process is different, so them developing more traits for dealing with cave life makes sense.

I don't think we should venture into any other lands. In all fan projects I've seen that send Link to those bounds, I sense a lack of creativity with the potential of Hyrule. If we really want to send Link to another land we should invent one. Hyrule is the only land I feel we have the right to appropriate because of its mainstay. All other lands are one shot ventures in single games. We never revisit these foreign lands because the return is Hyrule. Since this is a fan project, I think it's crucial that we focus on Hyrule, retaining enough elements so not to alienate our audience from the land they hold so many expectations of while still exploring our own vision of this fabled country.
I agree, if this takes off maybe we could create another land for a sequel but for this it should be within the confines of Hyrule

Considering the Sheikah have always been stealthy, they should remain being so. They were never noticed, and they didn't want to be. It's not all hubby hubby down there, it's harsh. The temperatures are cold as heck, there's hardly any food and water differs from place to place. If you want to be secure, you're gonna have to fix it yourself.
I don't think it should be cold in all places, you can also have hellish magma chambers and such, and places that are somewhere in between thriving with underground life(think brinstar)
 

Jam Stunna

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I'm reading Spire, I'm reading lol. Like i said, I don't really have much input on the plot, unless you want me to post "That's cool!" or "Nice idea!" over and over.

In any case, we've only been tossing out ideas for a few days. Let's keep going and see what else comes up, unless you guys are certain you want to run with Spire's idea.
 

Orboknown

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Work takes too much time bah.Multiquoting on itouch is a b**** so just gonna refer to general ideas-
[On spires gauntlets] love the idea.That said, maybe theres a small focus gem or something on the forearm that is where the magic shield projects from.Also another in the palm to focus offensive magic?
[on the underground climate]It actually gets hotter underground, tho the apocslypse might have changed that.
[gerudo swamp] The dark world of lttp converted gerudo desert to a swamp iirc.
[on religion] Who is to say that with the apocolypse anyone still has faith in the goddesses?

:phone:
 

etecoon

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Religion is an interesting subject, in SS the Goddesses aren't even mentioned directly and everyone worships a Goddess that disappears from history by the time of the other games...

I'm still open to new suggestions but I think Spire has the best concept thus far
 

Spire

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I like the focus gem idea. In fact, the magic shield could be a projection of the gem, which is the actual item you acquire before installing it into the gauntlet.

I want upgradable equipment, so when it comes to shields I suspect a number of versions. Aghaoifhasjodka I wish I had my tablet, I could just draw this stuff up. Three weeks til I get it back!

Anyways, most of Link's equipment is built into the gauntlets which themselves get upgraded over the course of the game. Consolidation is key to understanding just how his items can work, as well as giving us more room to work on external matters. Just going to write spontaneous ideas down (all are subject to change at your discretion):

Shields
  • Armguards
    • Hylian Shield — based on the classic shield
    • Goron Shield — reinforced,
    • Zora Shield —
  • Force Gems
    • Sheikah Ward
agh I can't just list shields, I have to draw them. Nevermind, I'll start sketching some stuff out.
 

Jam Stunna

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If we're going the upgradeable route, then I would like that our upgrades actually mean something. In SS, there was literally no reason not to upgrade your equipment, so it felt more like a chore than an interesting system. I would like to see our upgrade system work in such a way that different players might actually choose one upgrade over another. Branching upgrade paths might be a way to do that.
 

Spire

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For upgrades to mean anything, we would need actual gameplay to base them on. At the very least, maybe we can create a whole fabricated system of gameplay: how Link moves, how he fights, etc, etc. From there we might be able to imagine scenarios in which different shields could actually be effective. Otherwise he should just have one constant shield. This is going to take a lot more work to understand what our Legend needs for a rounded Zelda experience.
 

Orboknown

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I actually thought of having upgradeable items today.
Does link have another instrument this game?

:phone:
Spire said:
The antagonist of this story could be an embodiment of the force that drove Death Mountain to its own death. A supernatural force billowing a second eruption more powerful than the first, one that would effectively consume the entire land in lava, killing everyone and everything. Link's journey would constitute a gathering of knowledge of the earth itself, versus the arcane of Zelda games past. While this would take place in Hyrule, it would have little to nothing dealing with the Triforce, the goddesses, Ganon, the Master Sword, or any other main series characteristics.
Just reread and saw this.Kinda outdated due to some of our ideas, but it answers a question i had. That said,
With Links gauntlets, could they have a beam-type magical chain serving as the clawshots?
 

etecoon

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If we're going the upgradeable route, then I would like that our upgrades actually mean something. In SS, there was literally no reason not to upgrade your equipment, so it felt more like a chore than an interesting system. I would like to see our upgrade system work in such a way that different players might actually choose one upgrade over another. Branching upgrade paths might be a way to do that.
I like this, anyone here played Bastion? Great game and this reminds me of the upgrade system in it where each weapon has 5 sets of upgrades where you can choose one perk from another. Like Spire said, can't get into specifics yet but I think the concept is a good one to keep in mind for later.

My first thought for an instrument would be the harp as it has been most associated with the Sheikah, but it's a bit redundant after SS maybe?

So are we officially doing this? If not is there any timetable for other ideas to be proposed and discussed?
 

#HBC | ZoZo

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I'm all for a whistle LoZ1 style.

Personally I'm for Spire's idea. It's too bad we don't have too many people on board though. Would love more opinions.
 

etecoon

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It's nice to have more opinions but the more people are involved the harder it is to make everyone happy and to create something that is harmonious with itself. Especially since there is no director or main story writer here(well Spire might as well be but he doesn't technically have that final say authority, we all just happen to agree with him more often than not). For fleshing out ideas I don't think the size of the group is bad, where it's more likely to be a problem is when it gets to the nitty gritty of creating assets and such.

So I'm replaying the series to refresh my mind on everything, I should finally get around to playing the Oracles games. Which one should I do first? As I recall it doesn't really matter...


edit: COMPLETELY off topic but hey, someone decided we aren't allowed to have a social thread anymore and this doesn't deserve it's own topic


 

#HBC | ZoZo

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The stone tower is really well designed.

Play MM first imo, then LoZ1 (can be done in 30 minutes if you're fast enough ;P) and WW. Those are my favorites *shrug*
 

etecoon

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Already started the games, right now I'm on TP. I usually play MM after OoT for the full effect but sometimes I'll just play it since I like it more and wind up playing it more frequently anyway. I also need to beat LoZ...just didn't know if it would be better to play Ages/Seasons first

Top 3 for me atm would probably be MM, LA, and LTTP or SS. SS is really hard for me to place because it's full of brilliance and then it also has some really bad points, it's the most mixed bag for me of the whole series.
 

Spire

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Etecoon, play Seasons before Ages. Seasons was intended to be a remake of LoZ whereas Ages was going to be some sort of AoL remake. Neither happened and they evolved something else. Hyrule Historia says Link goes to Holodrum (Seasons) first, so play it. Plus, Seasons was decidedly easier than Ages.

Some more ideas:

• Rehash on the backstory: the collapse of Death Mountain occurred several (3-5) centuries prior to this era. The last King of Hyrule was warned by the Goron Patriarch of an impending disaster involving the mountain. He asked for passage of all his willing people to travel westward to Gerudo Desert for salvation and suggested he do the same for his people. Affixed on the notion to serve the Goddesses, the King declared a public incentive to transform the land into a sprawling temple metropolis. For nearly half a century these people worked, and with such an allotment of time passing, the King assumed the Goddesses may have been appeased. In this time, his wife birthed a daughter whom they named Zelda. One day, the King and Queen of Hyrule were touring their beautiful city in a lightrail car when an unstable column broke loose from its perch, crashed through the attached scaffolding and plummeted down the vertical city-chasm, striking their car and killing the two. Their funeral took place in the still intact Temple of Time, where the two were entombed—to forever live on through time. At the same ceremony, Princess Zelda ascended to the throne as Queen. The Goron Patriarch—who had attended the funeral—took this opportunity to warn Zelda of the disaster he felt was closer than ever, explaining that no matter how grand the work of her father may be, her people were not safe. What a time to inherit her father's power! She contemplated for a few days, throughout the rigorous customs of throne ascension. It wasn't until the city shook and the earth quaked that she understood the reality of the situation. Her father's work was to protect the people, and this city wouldn't be enough. If his spirit was to rest peacefully, she must fulfill his work. On the dawn of the eruption, she announced to every citizen of Hyrule City to take the lightrails west to the Gerudo Sanctum.

Maybe half the city evacuated. When Death Mountain exploded, a column of black smoke climbed, choking the blue Hyrule sky. Shadow fell over the land as the sun was blotted; the city that once gleamed in the light had been cast in grey. And then the bombs fell. Pyroclastic rocks followed the ash, raining across the land scorching everything they hit. From a distance you could see the top of the mountain glow, if but a splinter of light from such a distance. That faint orange light grew brighter as it fell down the slope. The volcano began to spew lava, relentlessly, effortlessly. Half the mountain was immolated, burning, melting. And then it fell. The magmatic side collapsed into the earth, as if the land took and held a deep breath. And then there was silence, sprinkled with the cracking of distant lightning. Those who could see from around Hyrule looked in wonder and horror. Then it blew. The breath the earth held thundered throughout the land, launching debris for miles. Lava continued to ooze from the earth as the mountain collapsed further, pushing the bounds of the forming crater outwards, consuming the lands of Eldin. Hyrule had been robbed of the Eldin province, of the Kakariko and Goron settlements. Fissures trembled throughout Hyrule, obstructing and fracturing the land. The skies were black with ash, constantly pouring heaps of it, smothering everything and everyone. Life was extinguished.

Those who did not flee west either fled underground or died, though the subterranean world refuged very few. Those lucky enough were met by Sheikah operatives underground, who escorted the refugees to their settlement. Lightrail Cars continued to evacuate people out of the city even throughout the catastrophe. Not all made it to westward salvation as the pyroclastic rocks rained down on and destroyed the outgoing lightrails and the cars moving on them. Queen Zelda stayed in the city to see to it the evacuation of everyone possible. After the land settled, no one saw or heard from her again.

...going to revisit this later, got some work to do now.

• Gorons take pilgrimages to the Eldin Caldera to bathe in the hot springs, to bathe with the spirits of their ancestors and all who died in the catastrophe of Death Mountain. In the center of the caldera lies the Goron Temple, built to pay homage to the mountain spirit. The land is considered sacred so while pilgrims are allowed to stand upon it, no one is allowed to live there.
 

etecoon

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Looking good, one question

Their funeral took place in the still intact Temple of Time
I thought this was more or less timeline neutral? Doesn't the status of the ToT have timeline implications or could this be like what SS showed us, different places could be named the temple of time in different eras?
 

Spire

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By intact, I meant that it was still functioning at that time within the city and despite the vast advances in architecture and technology, had been preserved.

However, I'm totally down with a new temple having been constructed to match the advanced architecture. Either way it's timeline neutral because the ToT is destroyed/lost in all three timelines. Yeah, let's go with the construction of a new Temple of Time for the sake of distancing our setting even more from the timeline.
 

etecoon

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If I were to look at a story as a building I would consider the setting to be the foundation, followed by main characters, plot, and then minor characters. We've done a decent amount of work on the surface setting but very little on the underworld, the only areas we've given thought to are the village Zelda and the water caves beneath Zora's Domain. Need at least a little more on other areas and the races that inhabit them IMO, it's hard to go into character development while we haven't even confirmed every race and factions and such, it would be very easy to get too far ahead of ourselves and leave something out

How should we approach this? A totally separate world or would each area of the surface have an equally proportioned underworld counterpart?
 

Orboknown

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Remembering what Spire said before,The gerudo are mostly underground. They should have their own area.The gorons need no specific area,But what about the majorrity of those Zelda lead to Gerudo "sanctum"? Did these die?Is there a graveyard for them? Temples underground?

:phone:
 

Spire

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I don't have answers, so rather than asking these questions (which I am thankful for), do you have any answers? I'm sure you have answers, for you're able to ask such questions. If you could answer every question you just asked, what would you give?
 

Orboknown

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I don't have answers, so rather than asking these questions (which I am thankful for), do you have any answers? I'm sure you have answers, for you're able to ask such questions. If you could answer every question you just asked, what would you give?
First off, how long after the apocolypse are we talking? that helps determine the answers to the first two. If a long enough time, yes there is some form of graveyard. If no, where are the remnant?
Some sort of temple/shrine should be there.

:phone:
 

Spire

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At least 300 years after the apocalypse, so the land can acclimate and the skies can clear. That's what I'm thinking. However, if we want to shorten the time frame, give a reason why.
 

Orboknown

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300is fine with me.
Tho im gonna crash and re-evaluate tomorrow.

:phone:
Wait. Is one hylian lifespan equivalent to one human? IE 74ish years?
 

etecoon

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People tend to live into their mid seventies and beyond these days, in a more ancient or medieval setting as Zelda typically is, people died much earlier. Of course Hylians could be different, but it's something to consider

I would trend towards the higher end of the scale Spire posted, 500ish years. I like the idea of Link knowing little about the surface world before exploring it because memory of it has faded and been distorted over the ages since people stopped living there
 
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;_; I made a wall of text.......

I'm fine with most stuff that has been liked so far. I'm a little shaky on specifics of how events unfold, but for the most part I like it.

This is what I'm basing my following opinions on.
We are working in a post-apocalyptic Hyrule. The main cause is the destruction of death mountain. Such a condition creates an over-world and an underworld which are uniquely inhabited. We want very unique, dark, and strange cultures to be born through this disaster. However, we still want familiar faces and references. Our "protagonist" will be raised as a shiekah being very nimble and possessing special and magical talents.
As far as the backstory goes as Spire gave it on the last page, hmm... I think it could be reworked a little bit. But I will get to that in a bit.

Earlier it was proposed to have a more vertical like structure in the underground design. But how have you all been imagining it? For those of you have seen Star Wars 3, the location of Utapau has these massive sinkholes http://images.wikia.com/starwars/nl/images/d/d0/Republic_troepen_arriveren_op_Utapau.png
This is how I imagine the underground would predominately exist. These massive sinkholes mostly circular or elliptic in shape would be several dozen meters across, but go miles deep. So far that getting to the top is very difficult and the sky above seems like a small dot. Our urban centers in the underground would be centered around these locations due to access to rain water coming in along with light. Between these sink wholes would be miles upon miles of underground tunnels. Now, I imagine that most of these tunnels and sinkholes would not exist until the destruction of death mountain. Old magma chambers would have been exhausted in the explosion.

Now, as spire said, people who survived the tragedy would create their homes in the underground. Specifically, around these sinkholes as I mentioned before. It seems easiest to create an underground community which can get forms of natural resources. Natural light, water, and random stuff that falls into the hole. Within the underground, I also envision communities being separated and not in easy contact with one another. This allows for easy exploration and many dangers and treasures to be found when traveling between locations. Also, with the disaster, new forms of life exist. Most in the form of monster and beasts, but some friendly, others hostile.

However, how would many of these people who live down here get supplies and things needed to live? Assuming they are flesh eaters (not rock eaters which gorons eat) from above, they are naturally accustomed to seeing with light and eating somehow. Cliched as it is, there would have to be artificial forms of light existing all over the place to allow for exploration or we could enable some form of light source which would play an integral part in the underground. Metal tools and homes would be easy enough to view due to being underground. However, food... Sources of food I can only see has being a source of underground animals which each rocks, but convert it into an edible form of food nutrient which our surviving people can live off of. This could create animal farming. Agriculture does not have to necessarily exist. Perhaps an underwater form of agriculture in underground lakes.

Anyway, going back to the backstory (pun lol). I highly, highly, highly, agree that we go at least 2 or 3 generations of people into the future. We do not have to give it a timeline in years at all. With the passing of older generations, the experiences from the overworld before the death mountain calamity pass into legend and song. Now, our "protagonist" will be simply another underground dweller with no memory of the outside except tall tales and legend. This works perfectly for creating a unique and strange world. I suggest we give absolutely no backstory at the beginning of the game other than vague and ambiguous legends. Throughout the game, our "protagonist" will actually undercover the truth of what really happened to cause this fall. Also, nothing is ordained by divine intervention whatsoever. This is not SS where Link is given tools to test his strength and what not. Our protagonist gains what he needs to gain to overcome unique obstacles realistically. There are no save statues every 5 feet in the game nor random chests with a tool needed to complete the area you are located nearby. I think it would develop game play to find resources and tools and information scattered around. You sadly have to revisit old places to get to new locations, but I it can be done in a way better than skyward sword.

Now, my biggest complaint that we have no agreed upon yet is a freaking direction to take with this game. I mean why do we follow some random person in the underground all over the place? What is the plot direction?

I think there should be a little political slander going on with the gorons in that backstory Spire made. Nothing representative of the whole race of gorons, but our little patriarch Goron could have ulterior motives. Say he can either control this calamity somehow... I dunno... he finds some box or something random like that which can destroy the mountain. At the very least, he knows about the situation and manipulates the royal family. He gets the royal family to move the Gorons away from harm, yet events allow the other inhabitants around death mountain to remain behind. The death of the king and queen, not accidental, but deliberate. The new queen Zelda becomes an easy tool to manipulate being inexperienced as a ruler. The disaster thus unfolds and many people die, yet many will life to form the underground. Some will make it to live in the overworld. In the end, the gorons become the dominant culture in the overworld rather than the royal family of old.

Jumping ahead 2-3 generations in the underground, our protagonist wakes up. We discover a little bit about the world he is apart of. A slow start to the game no doubt, but necessary I feel to build up a sense of the place. As our hero goes exploring and doing our gameplay, he/she discovers clues and eventually the whole truth about the why these people ended underground. Thus, our hero ends up embroiled in a variety of schemes stretching into the far past which he/she feels so inclined to alter.

The only issue I have am having at the moment is deciding what deeper and darker scheme could have been at work from the distant past and plays a part in the present.

Oh, and let me say this again as my own personal little quark. We all live in a very patriarchal reality. Too many times our video games come off as mirror images of our impressions of gender roles and what not. I would really like if we could somehow minimize those types of impressions by challenging a few of those gender stereotypes we usually end up pulling off. That is why I advocated having a female protagonist in the first place. However, I do not mean for it to become some sort of sex icon as so many video games, books, movies, commercials, conversations, etc. end up creating. I guess that's one of the few character design goals I think should be aimmed for.
 

Spire

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A Goron antagonist!

I would like to explore more female prominence, but only because every Zelda game so far has featured Link, I feel it's a rule we shouldn't break. We could at least offer a female version of Link to choose from. I think that's something that should be warranted by now, especially after Demise's statement that a future incarnation of himself would forever haunt the spirit of the Hero. The spirit is not gender contingent.
 

etecoon

Smash Hero
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Messages
5,731
Earlier it was proposed to have a more vertical like structure in the underground design. But how have you all been imagining it? For those of you have seen Star Wars 3, the location of Utapau has these massive sinkholes http://images.wikia.com/starwars/nl/images/d/d0/Republic_troepen_arriveren_op_Utapau.png
This is how I imagine the underground would predominately exist. These massive sinkholes mostly circular or elliptic in shape would be several dozen meters across, but go miles deep. So far that getting to the top is very difficult and the sky above seems like a small dot. Our urban centers in the underground would be centered around these locations due to access to rain water coming in along with light. Between these sink wholes would be miles upon miles of underground tunnels. Now, I imagine that most of these tunnels and sinkholes would not exist until the destruction of death mountain. Old magma chambers would have been exhausted in the explosion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ

Cliched as it is, there would have to be artificial forms of light existing all over the place to allow for exploration or we could enable some form of light source which would play an integral part in the underground.
It can be handled in different ways, some beasts could be luminescent like some deep sea creatures are, magma chambers would put off their own light etc

I like the idea of glowing plants

I think there should be a little political slander going on with the gorons in that backstory Spire made. Nothing representative of the whole race of gorons, but our little patriarch Goron could have ulterior motives. Say he can either control this calamity somehow... I dunno... he finds some box or something random like that which can destroy the mountain. At the very least, he knows about the situation and manipulates the royal family. He gets the royal family to move the Gorons away from harm, yet events allow the other inhabitants around death mountain to remain behind. The death of the king and queen, not accidental, but deliberate. The new queen Zelda becomes an easy tool to manipulate being inexperienced as a ruler. The disaster thus unfolds and many people die, yet many will life to form the underground. Some will make it to live in the overworld. In the end, the gorons become the dominant culture in the overworld rather than the royal family of old.
Don't think I like this, like I said, the Gorons have always been so chill, this seems really out of character for them. The Hylians themselves or the Gerudo would be the most predisposed to this kind of treachery I'd think
 

Spire

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Earlier it was proposed to have a more vertical like structure in the underground design. But how have you all been imagining it? For those of you have seen Star Wars 3, the location of Utapau has these massive sinkholes http://images.wikia.com/starwars/nl/images/d/d0/Republic_troepen_arriveren_op_Utapau.png
This is how I imagine the underground would predominately exist. These massive sinkholes mostly circular or elliptic in shape would be several dozen meters across, but go miles deep. So far that getting to the top is very difficult and the sky above seems like a small dot. Our urban centers in the underground would be centered around these locations due to access to rain water coming in along with light. Between these sink wholes would be miles upon miles of underground tunnels. Now, I imagine that most of these tunnels and sinkholes would not exist until the destruction of death mountain. Old magma chambers would have been exhausted in the explosion.
My qualm with this is the sinkhole shape. Too reminiscent of the cylindrical passages connecting Faron Woods, Eldin Volcano, and Lanayru Desert to The Sky in Skyward Sword. Not much variety in exploring the same basic shapes either :ohwell:. The way I currently see the Hyrule Underground is that it's bustling with everything necessary to live. The fissures have created cracks in the earth large enough for light to seep through, and there are various underground lakes and rivers (ha, just typed river at the same time as David Byrne said it in Take Me to the River—I love that unaware synchronicity with music). I see an underground that's not overtly vertical like this, but predominantly vertical (as opposed to the vast horizons of the surface world). It's one of the key differentiations between the above and below; gives you a better sense of locality.

Remember in OoT the connecting tunnels between the Lost Woods and Goron City? Or how about the Lost Woods and Zora's Domain? What if we were allowed to see the kind of tunnels Link travels through instead of warping? Remember that sequence in Twilight Princess where you sneak into Hyrule Castle through the hatch in Jovani's house? Imagine every cavern/underground segment in Twilight Princess for a moment (that includes places like the Goron Mines that are built into the earth). Now, you could not have reached each without exploring the overworld, right? What if there was an underworld that connected all of those instead, an underworld that cooperated with the overworld. Each Hyrule would have its exclusives of course. Various dungeons could only be accessed above or below. Maybe a couple could be accessed from both.
Now, as spire said, people who survived the tragedy would create their homes in the underground. Specifically, around these sinkholes as I mentioned before. It seems easiest to create an underground community which can get forms of natural resources. Natural light, water, and random stuff that falls into the hole. Within the underground, I also envision communities being separated and not in easy contact with one another. This allows for easy exploration and many dangers and treasures to be found when traveling between locations. Also, with the disaster, new forms of life exist. Most in the form of monster and beasts, but some friendly, others hostile.
If people formed homes around sinkholes, then they'd have a fair understanding of the world above them. Let's think about the philosophy of a people born underground. Whatever comes from the world above will define their understanding of it. I imagine light and sand are the only things that really make it through the cracks in the ceiling above the giant chasm that the village Zelda exists in (that's referring to the village called Zelda btw, which is tentative).

However, how would many of these people who live down here get supplies and things needed to live? Assuming they are flesh eaters (not rock eaters which gorons eat) from above, they are naturally accustomed to seeing with light and eating somehow. Cliched as it is, there would have to be artificial forms of light existing all over the place to allow for exploration or we could enable some form of light source which would play an integral part in the underground. Metal tools and homes would be easy enough to view due to being underground. However, food... Sources of food I can only see has being a source of underground animals which each rocks, but convert it into an edible form of food nutrient which our surviving people can live off of. This could create animal farming. Agriculture does not have to necessarily exist. Perhaps an underwater form of agriculture in underground lakes.
Remember, we don't have to treat this very realistically. This is Zelda after all. I imagine the Hyrule Underground is home to a variety of life: bioluminescent flora and fauna (many fish, Cave Zoras included), Keeblin (Keese+blin, batfolk), various Dodongos in the hotter regions like magma chambers, and really, a multitude of past Zelda creatures, offshoots of such, and anything else we can imagine.

Everything they need to live is underground. The premise of the story is proving to and convincing your people that it's worth exploring the world, no matter the dangers of the unknown. Maybe that's my own commentary on the currently developing accelerated world: that refusing to explore the bounds of earth, giving in to those who provide you with your 'needs' is a great way to not fulfill your potential as a living being.
Anyway, going back to the backstory (pun lol). I highly, highly, highly, agree that we go at least 2 or 3 generations of people into the future. We do not have to give it a timeline in years at all. With the passing of older generations, the experiences from the overworld before the death mountain calamity pass into legend and song. Now, our "protagonist" will be simply another underground dweller with no memory of the outside except tall tales and legend. This works perfectly for creating a unique and strange world. I suggest we give absolutely no backstory at the beginning of the game other than vague and ambiguous legends. Throughout the game, our "protagonist" will actually undercover the truth of what really happened to cause this fall. Also, nothing is ordained by divine intervention whatsoever. This is not SS where Link is given tools to test his strength and what not. Our protagonist gains what he needs to gain to overcome unique obstacles realistically. There are no save statues every 5 feet in the game nor random chests with a tool needed to complete the area you are located nearby. I think it would develop game play to find resources and tools and information scattered around. You sadly have to revisit old places to get to new locations, but I it can be done in a way better than skyward sword.
I totally agree with this.

Now, my biggest complaint that we have no agreed upon yet is a freaking direction to take with this game. I mean why do we follow some random person in the underground all over the place? What is the plot direction?

I think there should be a little political slander going on with the gorons in that backstory Spire made. Nothing representative of the whole race of gorons, but our little patriarch Goron could have ulterior motives. Say he can either control this calamity somehow... I dunno... he finds some box or something random like that which can destroy the mountain. At the very least, he knows about the situation and manipulates the royal family. He gets the royal family to move the Gorons away from harm, yet events allow the other inhabitants around death mountain to remain behind. The death of the king and queen, not accidental, but deliberate. The new queen Zelda becomes an easy tool to manipulate being inexperienced as a ruler. The disaster thus unfolds and many people die, yet many will life to form the underground. Some will make it to live in the overworld. In the end, the gorons become the dominant culture in the overworld rather than the royal family of old.
I think the reason we can identify contempt in the humanoid races is because we can identify with them. Gorons may be really chill, but that doesn't save them from varied views.

How do we want to present the antagonist? If they were Goron, it could be too blatant. I like the idea, really—but it's tricky. Do we play a Goron off as a Palpatine-like character? One who undermines Hyrule by bringing about a huge calamity, only to step forward from the ashes with promise of restore? Perhaps the Goron Patriarch convinced the King of the "impending disaster", persuading him to appease the gods, even extending his hand, offering his peoples' assistance in constructing a gleaming capital? This way he could oversee the misconstruction of a certain row of columns to assassinate the monarch. The Goron Patriarch would have needed to acquire some crazy means of destroying Death Mountain and perhaps as you explained, by use of a certain item.

Oh, and let me say this again as my own personal little quark. We all live in a very patriarchal reality. Too many times our video games come off as mirror images of our impressions of gender roles and what not. I would really like if we could somehow minimize those types of impressions by challenging a few of those gender stereotypes we usually end up pulling off. That is why I advocated having a female protagonist in the first place. However, I do not mean for it to become some sort of sex icon as so many video games, books, movies, commercials, conversations, etc. end up creating. I guess that's one of the few character design goals I think should be aimmed for.
I'm glad you said this. This is an example of something I'd like this project to end up making commentary on. We don't just have to make a mindless Zelda project for fun, we can use this as a platform to comment on our own world without breaking [too many] bounds.
 

etecoon

Smash Hero
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
5,731
Goron's are no less humanoid than Zora, it's just inconsistent with everything we've seen from them previously. Not only is their demeanor consistently out of line with that kind of action, they also seem to be the least politically motivated of the big 3 races in Hyrule, now suddenly one of them decides to assassinate the king and bring ruin to the land? And the method itself is uncharacteristic of Goron's who are very forward and proud of their brute strength, sneakily whacking even an enemy just isn't their style.
 
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