Official The Lean Mean Green Machine - Luigi Gameplay Discussion

[GreenFlame]

Wow just got the game and luigi's cyclone still sucks. Just wow

This...this makes me cry...

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Wow just got the game and luigi's cyclone still sucks. Just wow

Really? How so?

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Wow just got the game and luigi's cyclone still sucks. Just wow

Are you using a gamecube controller? Are the adapters even here yet? If the regular controls dont make his recovery better, than thats not looking too good...I guess the person i asked jumped when doing down b...again Ill need to see this for myself when i go to my tourny

 

[Yonder]

Wow just got the game and luigi's cyclone still sucks. Just wow

Still? I thought it was good at everything sans recovering...

Oh, I got 4th out of about 64 people in the local Smash Bros Brawl tournament! Using only Luigi!

Granted it was free for alls on legal stages no items, but I got first every bracket until the grand finals. I fell to a vicious Marth that won the whole thing. Also a Kirby that got 2nd [That I beat in the qualifying round before] and a Diddy.

Anyone proud?!? [Seriously. Not ONE person has complimented my success at my first ever tournament. I'm starting to feel down guys. Lift me up :/]

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Still? I thought it was good at everything sans recovering...

Oh, I got 4th out of about 64 people in the local Smash Bros Brawl tournament! Using only Luigi!

Granted it was free for alls on legal stages no items, but I got first every bracket until the grand finals. I fell to a vicious Marth that won the whole thing. Also a Kirby that got 2nd [That I beat in the qualifying round before] and a Diddy.

Anyone proud?!? [Seriously. Not ONE person has complimented my success at my first ever tournament. I'm starting to feel down guys. Lift me up :/]

Congrats dude! And yeah marth is hard for luigi. Always has been a tough matchup in every smash game.

 

[Yonder]

Congrats dude! And yeah marth is hard for luigi. Always have been a tough matchup in every smash game.

Finally, you're the first to say something [I feel like Luigi in the shadows sometimes haha]. Brawl Luigi made me realize just how much I love him. He can do everything for me but combo so beautifully like Luigi in Smash 4. Otherwise...I like this one the best.

But yeah, Marth was just tossing me around and keeping me out with his sword. It was really close too, everyone was in the 80%, I went out just before Diddy lol.

 

[GreenFlame]

Still? I thought it was good at everything sans recovering...

Oh, I got 4th out of about 64 people in the local Smash Bros Brawl tournament! Using only Luigi!

Granted it was free for alls on legal stages no items, but I got first every bracket until the grand finals. I fell to a vicious Marth that won the whole thing. Also a Kirby that got 2nd [That I beat in the qualifying round before] and a Diddy.

Anyone proud?!? [Seriously. Not ONE person has complimented my success at my first ever tournament. I'm starting to feel down guys. Lift me up :/]

I'm very proud, actually. You must be extremely skilled! If you can keep it up, who knows, you might end up making a big impact on the competitive scene (if you're trying to get into it).

Keep up helping Luigi make some noise! (lol)

 

[Yonder]

I'm very proud, actually. You must be extremely skilled! If you can keep it up, who knows, you might end up making a big impact on the competitive scene (if you're trying to get into it).

Keep up helping Luigi make some noise! (lol)

There is no competitive scene for Brawl in my hometown really, everyone is playing Melee or Smash 4 now. I hope my placement wasn't as deteriorated as much cause it was free for alls...I think I could have gotten 2nd or 3rd honestly. When it was just me and the 2nd place winner in the semi finals, the timer went out JUST as I got the Up B kill, and then I won with a bair on sudden death.
So yeah, if I stayed in the match for about 5 seconds longer in the grand-finals...I would have had a chance for 1st. But that was a really good Marth.

 

[GreenFlame]

There is no competitive scene for Brawl in my hometown really, everyone is playing Melee or Smash 4 now. I hope my placement wasn't as deteriorated as much cause it was free for alls...I think I could have gotten 2nd or 3rd honestly. When it was just me and the 2nd place winner in the semi finals, the timer went out JUST as I got the Up B kill, and then I won with a bair on sudden death.
So yeah, if I stayed in the match for about 5 seconds longer in the grand-finals...I would have had a chance for 1st. But that was a really good Marth.

No problem, I've heard Luigi has problems with Marth, and the Marth had probably practiced a lot. 4th place out of 64 as Luigi is not something you can do without loads of skill!

 

[Luigisama]

I used wii u pro controller and I doubt it will be any different on the gcc. I don't understand the logic in nerfing his cyclone.

Like what does that accomplish? In 64 hid cyclone coulf rise no problem, in melee they butchered it, brawl they bring it back.

 

[BlueBirdE]

i was told in 1/4 speed youre able to rise witht he cyclone without a jump. Are we able to change thh controller setting to allow 2 b special buttons and double tap those for the rise? Just a theory idk have the game yet

 

[GreenFlame]

i was told in 1/4 speed youre able to rise witht he cyclone without a jump. Are we able to change thh controller setting to allow 2 b special buttons and double tap those for the rise? Just a theory idk have the game yet

No, you can only assign one button to Special. The only thing that can be assigned twice is Jump, technically three times if you count Tap Jump.

So, fellow Luigi mains, how would you feel about Dr. Luigi joining the battle as (free?) DLC? I think it would be pretty cool, so I made a discussion thread you can find by clicking on the link/picture in my signature or here.
I don't mean to advertise, but it would be really nice to get some support to see
if people would like twice the Luigi:

because obviously 2x= 2xFUN

 

[BlueBirdE]

That sucks, well maybe another balance patch in the future can address that but for now well have to make due with what we got. mixing up our recoveries going high and low is more important than ever. unless we can use customs

 

[Yonder]

No, you can only assign one button to Special. The only thing that can be assigned twice is Jump, technically three times if you count Tap Jump.

So, fellow Luigi mains, how would you feel about Dr. Luigi joining the battle as (free?) DLC? I think it would be pretty cool, so I made a discussion thread you can find by clicking on the link/picture in my signature or here.
I don't mean to advertise, but it would be really nice to get some support to see
if people would like twice the Luigi:

because obviously 2x= 2xFUN

I wouldn't mind...


As an alt costume of Doctor Mario. But not as his own slot.

 

[Lorenzo The Comic]

Throughout the matches I've been playing both offline and online, I seem to have a harder time winning with Luigi than Bowser. I really don't want to drop Luigi, despite playing with him in Project M. During a recent Sudden Death vs. Lucario, I shoulda Nair'd instead of doing Dash Attack.

I guess using Luigi in this game is going to require more (for the lack of a better term) subtlety than Bowser. I'll still continue to practice Luigi.

 

[Yonder]

Throughout the matches I've been playing both offline and online, I seem to have a harder time winning with Luigi than Bowser. I really don't want to drop Luigi, despite playing with him in Project M. During a recent Sudden Death vs. Lucario, I shoulda Nair'd instead of doing Dash Attack.

I guess using Luigi in this game is going to require more (for the lack of a better term) subtlety than Bowser. I'll still continue to practice Luigi.

Of course it's easier to win with Bowser. He runs like lightning and hits hard in a game where it's hard to KO past 100. He's crazy good in this game and he can dominate any matchup [Except Duck Hunt Dog].

But if you want to be a true boss...keep at Luigi too. Very high skill gap, but oh so satisfying to win with as you crush everyone's precious top tiers.

 

[GreenFlame]

I wouldn't mind...


As an alt costume of Doctor Mario. But not as his own slot.

C'mon...I mean yes, he was a one-off character, but it would be damn cool to play as him. He could just have similar changes from Luigi that Dr. Mario has from Mario. Different physics + a slightly altered moveset can make for a huge variance in playstyle.

I'm probably just asking for too much, though it would be nice to have more Luigi.

 

[Yonder]

C'mon...I mean yes, he was a one-off character, but it would be damn cool to play as him. He could just have similar changes from Luigi that Dr. Mario has from Mario. Different physics + a slightly altered moveset can make for a huge variance in playstyle.

I'm probably just asking for too much, though it would be nice to have more Luigi.

I'd actually take Paper Luigi first. That would be neat. He has such a great personality in those games. With a Mr. L alt. yeaaaaah

 

[GreenFlame]

I'd actually take Paper Luigi first. That would be neat. He has such a great personality in those games. With a Mr. L alt. yeaaaaah

Actually, yeah. Mr. L alt for Luigi AND Paper Luigi would be epic.

Unfortunately, it's more likely that if we do get a Paper character, it will probably only be Mario. But I wish we had Paper Luigi.

 

[hey_there]

So I played the Wii U version at a get together earlier today and I was dominating with Luigi =D. My biggest problem: the GCN controller. Oh man, I got so used to the 3DS that going back to the GCN felt so awkward at first. After a while it felt great, but my brain has been trained to work with Luigi in SSB4 yet, so it was really awkward to do all the combos and strings and gimps.

Anyone else have the same issue?

 

[Swoops]

Went to my first Wii U smash tourney tonight. While my performance wasn't perfect, I didn't switch from weegee once because he performed so well and even better than I hoped.

His fireball game is solid and lets him set up his grab game. And once he gets his grab...god damn. You can vary your juggles up so much and easily end up with 30+%. Fireballs and down Bs as a disrupter easily add up to the glorious 80-90%.

At that percent, it's ridiculous how consistent down throw > jump upB can B.

There was definitely a few good players there, and in the tourney I landed AT LEAST 5-6 dthrow > up B combos. Afterwards in casuals I was landing it at like 90% consistency, no joke.

Luigi is legit.

 

[Yonder]

Wow, is it actually that easy to land D throw to Up B? 5 to 6 times?!? That's insane. Maybe a possible game changer.

Sssshhh, keep this from the others and let them still think Luigi is bottom 5!


I know the feeling of switching from the 3DS to gamecube remote though. Throughout my tournament yesterday, I was trying to use C stick instead of control stick and A for smashes. Kept switching between the two.

Incidentally, I feel bad that I don't have a Wii U to help contribute to Luigi's metagame at all. Guess I'll be helping out from the sides on the 3DS still .

 

[GreenFlame]

Luigi is legit.

You'd better believe it.


Is d-throw to up-b really that much easier to do on the GCC, Or are you just really skilled at it (probably both)?

I think this Smash 4 is going to have Luigi's biggest impact on a Smash game yet. This d-throw has changed a lot for him.


Guys, does anyone remember THIS?

Guys...IT'S PAYBACK TIME

 

[Swoops]

I don't think it's an issue of controls (although maybe it is, just not primarily.)

I think it's mostly getting used to the aerial up b sweetspot and understanding/reacting to where the opponent can DI. From all the matches, it seems like dthrow > up B is guaranteed even up to 110% as long as you are properly chasing their DI. From what I could tell, the opponent is able to position themselves from just above 45 degrees above the ground, to a straight 90 degrees above Luigi.

Now his aerial upB sweetspot seems to be a pretty solid little arc around his head from the inside of his fist to the back of his neck. So to try and help any other weegee players with this, I try to visualize the sweetspot as getting my head all up in their ass xD. That usually means you're hitting the sweet spot.

I'm not saying this can't be a bit difficult if the opponent is reeeeally remaining unpredictable with their DI, but it seemed like it was realistic to react to whatever DI and land the sweet spot.

 

[meleebrawler]

Pehaps it's the lack of vectoring that makes Dthrow much more
reliable now.

 

[hey_there]

Incidentally, I feel bad that I don't have a Wii U to help contribute to Luigi's metagame at all. Guess I'll be helping out from the sides on the 3DS still .

I'm in the same boat, friend =). I probably won't be getting a Wii U for a while, but I'll work on Luigi anyway.

I need to start practising landing dthrow -> upB if it really is that consistent.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

So i came back from my tourny. I did pretty poorly, but to be honest, I played like a ******* (and got 7th out of like 30 people). This is a john but, i really could not get used to amount of lag the monitors they used had. It was so hard for followups..and it really felt like s4's wifi (on its better connections), had less input lag. Regardless, I got outplayed by a diddy/villager main (who is top 5 in my state in this game) and lost to a lucario.

Also, it saddens me to say that, even with a gamecube controller, rising without a jump offstage with down b is not possible. You may stay there, but you wont rise. Which is i used the 3ds as my controller, because 1) there's no sdi regardless and 2) I'm used to it. Plus the recovery isn't getting better with either controller

Anyways if you guys do want to watch my sets, go here. Generally I play pretty meh and then adapt game 2 and win (sometimes pretty devastatingly).

So my two sets are here http://www.twitch.tv/gbdojo/b/591737021 @ 18:48 for my match against a p good pac man main

And my set against the villager/diddy kong is here @ 1:51:08.

The commentary is questionable..they say luigi has a good recovery and they also mention that he's a fast faller at one point, both of which are wrong. Anyways, critique, do w/e. I played pretty badly though.

It was the first s4 wii u tourny though, so changes will hopefully be made (lagless monitors, at least less laggy than s4's wifi lol, and 3 stocks, which I think is better now because of the return of [strange] DI)

Also to the above comment about down throw up b, the window is the same as the 3ds version; no change was made there.
However, I do feel like the number of times Luigi can misfire has increased in the Wii U version. I got a lot more in the wii u version than i ever have in the 3ds version. Can someone confirm the misfire ratio being higher?

 

[meleebrawler]

I have seen a cpu Luigi misfire twice in a row in Wii U classic...

 

[GreenFlame]

Fun Fact: Luigi used to snap to the ledge when he did Green Missile. Not anymore folks. L2RecoverHigh

This is something I'm not very happy with at all about Smash 4 *thinks back to Brawl days when Luigi would auto-snap*.

That SNAFU alone is the reason I quit Luigi.

I don't really see this as a very good reason to quit Luigi. I mean one small (though I will admit, noticeable) nerf to his recovery and you quite the whole character? If you truly liked playing the character, wouldn't you be able to look past that and see all the good points he's got now like his epic down-throw?

 

[RANDOMFD]

I've been testing some of Luigi's combo potential, and what moves I think can follow up into others. And even though his down tilt was pretty awful in the other games, in comparison, it can actually do some pretty good small combos (LIKE REALLY SMALL) at low percents you can do down tilt to forward tilt (Make sure you get a space around end of luigi's leg to get it, because if it's to close, the down tilt can make the character go behind you) for a 16% Combo or even down tilt dash attack, but if you do down tilt dash attack, you'll miss the initial hit, so it's better to do forward tilt imo. Or in higher percents you can do down tilt to forward air. (But, you have to wait a couple frames to jump so the hit can connect)


But I'm also looking for a way to incorporate Luigi's down air spike into a combo. Can anyone else test this?

 

[Wtfwasthat]

I've been testing some of Luigi's combo potential, and what moves I think can follow up into others. And even though his down tilt was pretty awful in the other games, in comparison, it can actually do some pretty good small combos (LIKE REALLY SMALL) at low percents you can do down tilt to forward tilt (Make sure you get a space around end of luigi's leg to get it, because if it's to close, the down tilt can make the character go behind you) for a 16% Combo or even down tilt dash attack, but if you do down tilt dash attack, you'll miss the initial hit, so it's better to do forward tilt imo. Or in higher percents you can do down tilt to forward air. (But, you have to wait a couple frames to jump so the hit can connect)


But I'm also looking for a way to incorporate Luigi's down air spike into a combo. Can anyone else test this?

I think if youre at the edge of the stage you can dthrow to dair spike

 

[hey_there]

I've done dtilt -> fair/usmash at higher percents. Note that I was trying to do a dsmash and got a dtilt accidentally, but I do find it easy to capitalize on. I've also gotten dthrow -> dair spikes at low percents near the ledge, but at low percents the opponent can recover fairly easily, so it's not a big deal imo.

 

[Luigisama]

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/591618085 one of my matches from KTAR XI. I don't know if all of them are there. I appreciate some critiques as well. These were all bracket pool matches.

4:34:23 Round 2

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/591724938

17:50 Winner quarters

29:46 Losers quarters

58:43 Losers semifinals

 

[hey_there]

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/591618085 some of my matches from KTAR XI. I don't know if all of them are there. I appreciate some critiques as well.

There's nearly 5 hours of material. Do you know the specific times when your matches occur?

 

[Luigisama]

There's nearly 5 hours of material. Do you know the specific times when your matches occur?

lol I re edit the post. sorry about that

 

[Sixfortyfive]

So i came back from my tourny. I did pretty poorly, but to be honest, I played like a ******* (and got 7th out of like 30 people). This is a john but, i really could not get used to amount of lag the monitors they used had. It was so hard for followups..and it really felt like s4's wifi (on its better connections), had less input lag. Regardless, I got outplayed by a diddy/villager main (who is top 5 in my state in this game) and lost to a lucario.

Did you end up playing on that Polaroid HDTV that someone brought in? I knew that thing was bad news the moment I saw it. I'm not sure why the other TOs OK'd it.

There will be a notice posted next time with more details on what displays are acceptable, and I'll bring in my HDMI lag tester if I can make it.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Did you end up playing on that Polaroid HDTV that someone brought in? I knew that thing was bad news the moment I saw it. I'm not sure why the other TOs OK'd it.

There will be a notice posted next time with more details on what displays are acceptable, and I'll bring in my HDMI lag tester if I can make it.

Yeah, but honestly, most of them had a good amount of input lag that was just really jarring for me, especially when I'm used to the smoother s4's 3ds wifi (which somehow has less input lag). No johns though.

And yes, I was talking to the TO about it and even he noticed that this was an issue. On the fb post he said that only 1080p monitors rated at 10ms or lower will be accepted. They're really expensive, and I'll need to invest into one soon so I can practice on/bring one in at tournys.

Good stuff on saturday, though, man! Great pac man

 

[Luigisama]

So apparently we have kill set ups from dthrow, but they are dependent on weight/fall speed. Thunder and I were discussing this at KTAR XI. Some characters can be killed by dthrow to cyclone and some characters (mostly big characters) are easy to catch with the dthrow to up b.

One thing I want to figure out is how the cyclone spikes. I tried doing it during some matches and it didn't work. Maybe it works when there is a trade between opponents.

 

[Swoops]

So apparently we have kill set ups from dthrow, but they are dependent on weight/fall speed. Thunder and I were discussing this at KTAR XI. Some characters can be killed by dthrow to cyclone and some characters (mostly big characters) are easy to catch with the dthrow to up b.

One thing I want to figure out is how the cyclone spikes. I tried doing it during some matches and it didn't work. Maybe it works when there is a trade between opponents.

Playing around in training mode I was landing dthrow > upB pretty consistently on even Olimar. However, it is training mode and it could be a totally different scenario in game with competent opponents DIing as best they can :/.

I find when the opponent is at the mid percents, around 50%-80%, dthrow > dair spike combo is one of your best options. Land the dair spike and follow up with a falling NAir/UAir/tornado. Even if they tech, tornado or falling uair seems like a viable option to chase the tech. Falling NAir can even lead into more follow ups with the right timing, although I'm finding that falling UAir might be a more preferable option with it's less landing lag.

EDIT: I forgot to mention I've also landed DThrow > FAir > DAir spike a couple times at lower percents. I don't think it's a true combo, but it might be hard to avoid due to the opponent being a very short distance above the ground. Might hold interesting potential because the DAir auto cancels.

 

[lijero13ss]

Playing around in training mode I was landing dthrow > upB pretty consistently on even Olimar. However, it is training mode and it could be a totally different scenario in game with competent opponents DIing as best they can :/.

I find when the opponent is at the mid percents, around 50%-80%, dthrow > dair spike combo is one of your best options. Land the dair spike and follow up with a falling NAir/UAir/tornado. Even if they tech, tornado or falling uair seems like a viable option to chase the tech. Falling NAir can even lead into more follow ups with the right timing, although I'm finding that falling UAir might be a more preferable option with it's less landing lag.

EDIT: I forgot to mention I've also landed DThrow > FAir > DAir spike a couple times at lower percents. I don't think it's a true combo, but it might be hard to avoid due to the opponent being a very short distance above the ground. Might hold interesting potential because the DAir auto cancels.

ooo i'll be trying the DThrow > Fair > Dair. BTW what does auto cancel mean?