The Last Time I Will Do This

[DeLux]

Based on our target demographic, I would honestly think streaming of an event is pretty auxiliary compared to other necessities.

For example, I'm running recruitment in KS based on $5 entry for both venue and singles entry against a guaranteed pot of $60 because people complained spending $15 to $25 just to try out a tournament where they in all likelihood are going to go 0-2 until they get a few tournaments under their belt. This wouldn't be possible if streaming were a priority since I wouldn't be able to get a venue that cost effective that's a public place.

If streaming is important, just record the video on to your computer as if you were going to livestream it, and then upload it or broadcast it over youtube or twitch or w/e the next day.

 

[What's The Point]

The idea for constant streams is that it's a community building thing. The people who couldn't go to the tournament can tune in and chat with each other and the commentator/guy behind the computer.

 

[sneakytako]

Delux, try OS's all Pool system. It was amazing.

 

[DeLux]

I've actually been doing (read as: have ordered Bonds to do) some math estimates to see if it's possible to do so for my 3 hour time slot to run it with the 6 setups I have.

According to Bonds, I think we have something worked out for it. However, since it's tournament play and we've been leveraging my ability to win the tournament against being able to keep our overhead down until we meet a threshold of 20 players, I'd be forced to play to win the entire time instead of being able to have some down time during bracket to play friendlies and teach people more in depth.

The systems have their pros and cons. I personally like the bracket system since I dont' like playing that many games and I can sort of just screw around the entire day. Most people are on the other side of that coin though and like more bracket matches, and having been there as well I totally understand taht.

 

[sneakytako]

When would you be play friendlies during a bracket of 20 people with 6 setups? The correct answer sounds like after the tournament is over.

Pools goes by so much faster than bracket. And trust me after you play pools only you won't miss the waiting time.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I wouldn't make All Pools the standard but its very fun. MI tried it this weekend and it worked out. Although playing against Diddy for 6 sets was incredibly gay lol.

 

[SoulPech]

AZ's place was awesome when he was hosting, but life johns prevented him from hosting more. Columbus does go to this oriental hang out place every Wednesday and locals play fighting games other than brawl (mvC3, SSF4AE, etc.), so that may be a good venue. A few weeks ago, a new crew in Columbus hosted a tourney in a hotel room and it wasn't too bad. I don't know...it's something Columbus needs to get together and discuss.

 

[SoulPech]

Also, OS's All pools tourney was great! More people played than they ever would in brackets and it was quicker than brackets. I spoke with MX while driving back and he mentioned he was "all Brawled out", which he NEVER says that. I think Juu and Carls fell asleep because they were tuckered out, lolz.

 

[Mister Eric]

I did enjoy the All Pools idea, the only thing I'm hesitant about is the potential of rigging the pools. Might it increase the chance of people screwing others over by throwing sets?

 

[SoulPech]

IIRC, this didn't happen at OS's tournament. I mean, it may happen in bigger tournaments, but I don't think it's that big of an issue. My main concern is if you have same cities play in same pools, like having 3 Indiana players in the same pools, 3 Cinci in one, and 3 Columbus in another. If you are concerned, do you think moderators would fix that issue?

 

[SoulPech]

So I tried playing online for the first time....and the last X___________X

 

[DeLux]

When would you be play friendlies during a bracket of 20 people with 6 setups? The correct answer sounds like after the tournament is over.

Pools goes by so much faster than bracket. And trust me after you play pools only you won't miss the waiting time.

Typically during the latter rounds of the bracket. For example, the winner of WF could be waiting through LS and LF for their match to take place. Given that those matches are probably 16-24 minutes and 24-40 minutes a piece, that's 45 minutes to an hour of friendlies within bracket that I don't have to worry about playing to win and I'm not burned out playing 15 sets of tournament.

 

[Mister Eric]

IIRC, this didn't happen at OS's tournament. I mean, it may happen in bigger tournaments, but I don't think it's that big of an issue. My main concern is if you have same cities play in same pools, like having 3 Indiana players in the same pools, 3 Cinci in one, and 3 Columbus in another. If you are concerned, do you think moderators would fix that issue?

It's kind of hard to fix if your whole crew (or even a portion) is making it to the end.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

After like the first round of pools in an all pools format, people just need to get over the location thing.

 

[Juushichi]

Completely agreed. If your location is good enough to all move on, then deal with it lol. So what if for example Tech has to play Roller again?

Or if Eric has to play Xisin if they both get out.

 

[Mister Eric]

My point wasn't avoiding playing people you know (unless you guys are only responding to Soul Pech's post). It's that they can potentially throw matches to let their crew mates move on. Like if Xisin wasn't going to get out of pools but I had the chance to, only if I beat him and his game doesn't matter either way, I bet $$ he'd be tempted to throw it. I know it can happen in bracket and pre-bracket (traditional pools) but I could just see it getting carried away in this environment is all.

 

[SoulPech]

I was just referring to the 1st round, lol. The topic of "throwing" matches can be difficult because you don't really know if they did, unless you inspect the match. Even then, it can be staged. Personally, I wouldn't throw any match just because I believe in the righteousness of play, but then again people want dat moneh...

 

[Pimp Daddy Supreme]

is there some unwritten rule that states you must try your hardest at all times

 

[Mister Eric]

No there isn't. All I'm saying is that I feel that all pools promotes the idea more. I'm not even all for the "old" yellow/red/rainbow card system. But I can definitely see more opportunities of you playing a bro (or rly anyone lol) who doesn't stand a chance of making it out and him just being like "you can have it" while screwing someone else out whose fate decided on that win or loss in the process.

 

[Eddie G]

I agree with Mister Eric on this. It seems like a nice enough format - but more sets also presents more opportunities for players to make those types of choices spurred by favoritism, obligation, or loyalty; even if subconsciously.

 

[Juushichi]

Then that is their mistake to make. Alternatively, it allows for people (like Carls, iirc who, I believe ended up losing 5 or so games and still got fifth because he deserved it and beat enough people to get out) to play more games against a wider variety of people. People can decide not to play their hardest even in bracket and it has an effect on other players. Regardless, it's up to you to determine if you get out or not. Crush the possibilities and beat everyone. If you're not good enough to, then this kind of thing has the chance to happen.

To be honest, this probably benefits the middle of the road guys the most because you have more chances to run into the people you want, in say pool round two, that you wouldn't because you got Shugo in WR2 for the third time in five tournaments.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Shugo is bad though. So your point is invalid.

 

[clowsui]

The solution to solving the whole favoritism issue is "make the pools hella ****ing stacked all around".

 

[Juushichi]

Eventually they're going to be anyway. So even if fraudulent people got in because of shady tactics, they would get exposed and it would even out anyway.

Lol.

 

[Mister Eric]

Regardless, it's up to you to determine if you get out or not.

Is it?
Let's say Springfield still traveled. They were all good enough to make it to 2nd wave if not the final wave (going by the way things went last tourney) of pools. Top two get out. You're in this pool btw Ju, along with MX who is guaraunteed to make it out. You're playing your effing heart out. It's all riding on one set on whether you make it through and that set isn't up to you. It's up to maybe Nope and Fonz. If Nope wins, you don't make it out. If he loses you do. Fonz is definitely not going to make it out in this case. But Nope's making it out relies on whether he wins the match or not. Do you honestly think Fonz is going to try and beat him?

Crush the possibilities and beat everyone. If you're not good enough to, then this kind of thing has the chance to happen.

I can agree with that to a point. But what if you're more 3rd place potential then getting first? Are you going with the idea that we should hope to be 1st place potential every time? And leave 2nd place to more of a Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card? Do I have to use Ally as an example to make this obstacle a bit more insurmountable?

I know this kind of thing can happen in any tournament format. Like Gio said, who's to say whether you go hard every single match. But this is intentional tournament rigging that almost every single player could be put in the position to do. If this was bracket, Nope vs Fonz would be more likely to be played to win by both parties. The main difference is there becomes cases where a win can mean absolutely NOTHING but a number and a loss could help a beepo out. And this can happen a lot. I'm not saying I don't like the all pools idea. I just want this to be made aware to people in the case that we might be able to either prevent it or help limit it somehow.

It's hard to not want to give the match up when that's your crew mate. Whether it be they will most likely get upset with you or strip them out of the chance to make money in which both of you get nothing. But in bracket, at least they'd be more inclined to play it out.

The solution to solving the whole favoritism issue is "make the pools hella ****ing stacked all around".

Not seeing how that helps.

 

[Juushichi]

I gotta wait and see. If I played up to my full potential and it came to that point, it's out of my hands. Yeah, I'll be upset about it especially if I don't get... but that's how the pool falls. This is much bigger than just me, though. It sucks [that described situation happened], but no format is fair. This meant that I got to play my heart out and beat MX and most of my other pool, which is also important (especially for PR purposes and my own personal ego) instead of say, losing to Fonz R1 and then running into the loser of say ShadowPhoenix (I am so bad vs Falco it's laughable and god help if MK is legal) and like, Kel in LR1. 0-2 and my tourney experience is done while I'm wishing that maybe I got a better draw and got to play like Lumi round one or something. Guess which one I'm going to favor, mate?

This format has more upside than short pool to bracket, imo.

 

[Eddie G]

Sounds like a bunch of hand-holding for a single target demographic if you ask me. The solution to any of that is to get better, better enough to not have to consider those names you just mentioned as absolute brick walls but rather...as more obstacles to get past. The only valid thing I see from this change is getting to play more sets more often, but mehhh lol.

 

[Mister Eric]

loveyoubothgoodnight

 

[Infern Angelis]

Good thing God Kais dont worry about that since we all always make it out

 

[Eddie G]

Infern knows what's up.

 

[Exceladon City]

Reminds me of the last GP Affairs I went to.

I got a bye, had to lose to Joey and then in loser's I had to play either Lumi or Mister Eric.

Yeah, not fun.

Pools does give me a better shot in doing better as I'm less likely to choke.

 

[Juushichi]

I know right, KB? Because playing more sets in a tournament environment is not conclusive to getting better and you're getting your hand held if you're not getting out of a weak pool to get 0-2'd in bracket when you could be getting out of a weak pool to play more people.

It isn't about the names, it's about the concept.

 

[Eddie G]

Ok, have fun with that.

 

[Raziek]

KB mad dumb.

Real talk.

#DRB

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Lmao at Raziek popping in.

Side note: Raziek if you go to Apex 2013 MM me. Always wanted to play you :D

 

[Eddie G]

Not really, I understand the positives that come with the concept. I'm just being a ****.

P.S. "Real Talk" died about 6 months ago, just sayin'.

 

[Mister Eric]

I'm totally with you Ju on those positives. I love that it actually promotes more growth. I just don't want the potential "dark side" of it to get out of hand is all. I feel like nothing is more crushing on jipping someone out of a shot of making a name for yourself. I'll just keep my fingers crossed for now.

 

[Juushichi]

Well, Eric. I think that such a thing can still be remedied over the course of many tournaments. This isn't just an isolated thing, I think. Also, I would like to believe that a lot of MW players aren't like that, but competition is competition... however, it also seems that such a situation would be recognized and probably remedied if necessary by the TO.

It would probably suck for the party involved for that event though, yeah...

 

[Eddie G]

To be honest, I would probably mess around with bracket pools before this. Sure, promoting growth is important and all but let's be realistic here...it is now mid 2012, how much has our scene (in general, Midwest and the coasts) grown within the span of four years? Numbers were naturally at their highest during the period when this game was considered new. Then, a plateau, and eventually a steady decline/stagnated plateau. National numbers usually top at 200-250 and haven't gone anywhere beyond that (barring Apex, mind you). Regionals usually vary between 60-100, and locals vary in size depending on the region (we usually see something in the 15-30 range). These numbers really haven't changed much if you think about it, and likely never will increase (I'm just being realistic here, not pessimistic).

That being said, and I digress, while it is important to focus on growth and all - I think getting our **** in gear at events time-wise should take a higher priority. Getting matches done in a timely fashion, clearing out brackets as quickly as possible to grant more time to play on free setups, those kinds of things. I feel that people are trying to mesh the "play more matches and get your moneys worth" concept into bracket-play a little too much. That, in turn, does little to promote incentive for people to get their matches done without wasting time because they won't be as concerned about being able to play more if they're already being granted more 'filler' sets per event. If you simply limit the hand-outs during pools/bracket play, and push the idea to "get your **** done if you want to play more", I believe there are some positives that can come out of that as well.

Edit: Either that or replace the "final pool" with a small double elimination braket. No real reason, just personal preference.

 

[Mister Eric]

I was thinking about this while I was shaving my face butt naked in the bathroom 15 min ago.
I do that.

And what I thought was, if we did go the all pools route for an event, perhaps making people from the same region play FIRST if they're in the same pool.