Had time to work on the next set for Mario Kart! It's Rambi and Squawks' time to shine. I definitely wanna go back and add animal crate designs to Enguarde and Squitter now. As well as do a full set for Enguarde!
Fantastic work as always. Very well done.
So this probably has been brought up before, but do you think it's possible Nintendo might throw out some echo fighters separately from the Fighter Pass to keep interest in the game going? I honestly think this might happen, I have to assume Nintendo is going to want to keep updating Ultimate as much as they can, especially when considering how well Ultimate is selling right now. I don't think Nintendo wants that gravy train to stop any time soon.
How likely do you guys think this is? And if this did happen, is it possible that Dixie would be made available this way? I don't want Dixie to be an echo, but if there's no chance of Dixie ever getting in otherwise...I mean, it's better than nothing right?
I have said a few times before that one of the few scenarios where Dixie Kong still is able to make it onto Ultimate's roster (without being a part of the Fighter's Pass) is being among two or three echo fighters that Sakurai decided to throw in as DLC. Personally, I would still be happy with this (and as I said before, if Dixie was an echo under such a scenario, she would likely be among the most different echos being closer to Ken than Daisy). Dixie Kong being on Ultimate's roster would be a massive miracle regardless of what kind of fighter she would end up as simply due to the present circumstances and the competition she faces even if one of those few routes to get on the roster were to arise (whether it would be additional echoes developed or a second fighter's pass).
The simple fact is we do not know what the future holds. From what I have already written in my Dixie Kong essay, I have noticed one very concerning thing regarding Dixie Kong. She is a character that which has regularly gone on long hiatuses regarding her last appearance. Dixie Kong's last game appearance was 1997's Donkey Kong Land 3, and she would not appear in another game until 2004's Donkey Konga 2, nearly seven years. While she made a slew of game appearances from 2004 to 2008, after Mario Super Sluggers, she was gone again until 2014's Tropical Freeze, which was nearly six years. It has now been FIVE years since her last new game appearance. In another two years, Dixie Kong will have beaten her longest hiatus record.
For most characters added to the roster, having a recent game appearance is a very integral factor to their selection. Dixie Kong has always had bad circumstances surround her regarding getting into Smash Bros. From not being retooled as a separate fighter when the tag team idea did not work in Brawl, to Tropical Freeze being announced too late to affect Sakurai's decision in deciding Smash 4's roster, to K. Rool getting most of the DK newcomer attention on the ballot. Dixie Kong simply does not have luck on her side.
Looking at the character's history, even getting in as an echo fighter in Ultimate would be a massive victory for her and tremendously lucky. Perhaps one of the biggest miracles for character inclusion honestly given the circumstances. Dixie Kong could always be made into a more unique fighter down the road.
Dr. Mario at one point was the cloniest clone in the series, now he is very noticeably different than Mario and much more different than many other clone type fighters in Ultimate (the echoes). Many said Pichu should never ever return because he was a character that was flat out awful and intended to be awful. Now Pichu is considered among the best fighters in Ultimate.
Dixie Kong being an echo in Ultimate will not condemn her to that fighter category perpetuity. Instead fans of the character would have to express that they would like to see the character further differentiated from Diddy Kong. Dixie Kong going from a last minute Ken-style echo to a full fledged Isabelle styled semi-clone is a pretty realistic transition if you look at how Melee's clones became semi-clones in later Smash Bros. installments.
Well if that was the case I can wait and like I said it's best not to assume any rumors especially after the Grinch leak ended up being false. I also rather her not to be stuck with a broken base like how Ganondorf and Dark Samus have. Daisy's treatment in this game also turned me away from the echo idea even further since I don't feel a tomboyish character like her should be stuck with a girlishly move set that Peach has.
Dark Samus and Daisy would never ever have made it into the roster without echoes being a thing (the same goes for every other character that was made into an echo). Daisy within Super Mario has never (or rarely) displayed different abilities than Peach, and her primary different from Peach was personality.
I actually wrote extensively how despite Dark Samus have almost no gameplay differences from Samus, Sakurai and his team were still able to capture the the character well through the character's eerie and "alien" animations.
For most supporters or fans of these characters, their inclusion as an echo fighter beats the character likely never ever making it onto the roster.
To be honest guys, I wish the clone system never existed in Smash because If it didn't, we would have Ganondorf and Falco as unique characters with unique movesets. I'm too sure about all the other clones fates in that alternate universe since the majority of them wouldn't have no chance in *** if the clone system never existed. Ganondorf and Falco I believe 100% percent would have still made it into the roster in that alternate timeline, but probably not in Melee since Wario, Dedede, Pit, Sonic, and Snake were planned but didn't make it due to time constraints. In a reality were time didn't push Sakurai to put in clones in Melee, those 5 would have debut in Melee instead of Brawl.
As I said before, Falco would never have made it into Smash Bros. period. During pre-Brawl, there would only have been strong support for Wolf and Krystal. Falco had less support than Wolf did during pre-Melee due the E3 2001 Melee trailer where Wolf made an appearance (which made many think he was going to be a part of the roster). Star Fox going into hiatus with Command, would have meant little interest in Falco during the pre-Smash 4 period (look at how much interest in Krystal collapsed after pre-Brawl). Falco had to make into Melee, or else he most likely would never have made it into the series at all.
Also, the clone system in general offered so many characters with smaller fanbases an opportunity for their character of choice to make it into the roster. For example, Roy introduced many people, including myself to the Fire Emblem series and made us fans of it. Fans of Dark Samus and Chrom thought after Brawl and Smash 4 that those characters would never make it onto the roster.
The echoes in general offered hopes and dreams to many fans of characters that thought being a part of the roster was unlikely. There is always room to be decloned in a future installment for the echoes.
It's certainly possible. The real kicker about Dixie is that they already have her Mii hat and unlike the other costumes, they can literally just paste that onto the Diddy model, adjust the moveset, and call it a day.
The Mii hat might very well be able to be recycled as an asset if Dixie is included as a fighter. However, I think most likely they will create an entirely new hair texture for Dixie Kong.
Beyond Isabelle, Chrom and Ken showed us that echoes can still be somewhat unique, for example Chrom taking Ike's Up-B despite being mostly based on Roy can be easily translated into Dixie taking DK's Up-B despite being mostly based on Diddy.
I can understand the frustration of not having her be unique, and I would certainly prefer her to be, but I would still rather have her in the game in the first place. Clones or not, simply having a spot on the roster does wonders to a character's prestige, they get to have a place in the general culture and discussion of the community, they get to be in all the fan art and comics and the web animations and the like, they get to be introduced to millions of fans who might have never heard or cared of her otherwise. If I had to make the choice, I would rather have her in the roster just for that.
I agree with this. I wrote extensively before that Dixie Kong if an echo would be at the very least as different as Chrom and more likely follow cues from Ken. I think she would at the very least have a different recovery, Final Smash, idle animations (some echoes do not), jump animation (based off of DKC2 and DKC3), run animation (based off of DKC2 and DKC3), and neutral special with different properties (Bubble Gum Pop Gun instead of Peanut Pop Gun). I could easily see her having a few a-moves utilizing her ponytail like how Ken has kicks for some of his a-moves instread of punches.
As for the second paragraph you wrote, I also very much agree. Personally, I would love to see her alongside the rest of Ultimate's stellar cast. The next game in the series will probably remove quite a bit of Ultimate's roster for one, and secondly, as mentioned earlier, we do not know what circumstances Dixie Kong will be facing when the roster for the next game is decided in the mid 2020's. She could very well be in a worse situation than she is now.
Look at Krystal as an example. The conventional wisdom after Brawl's release was that she would be a shoe-in for the next game since she was the most highly requested female newcomer at the time. Two installments later, she has not made any new appearances in her own series, and she just recently gained an Assist Trophy role.
Never ever think that a character is "inevitable" or that a character will eventually have their turn come up. This kind of mentality has been especially disastrous for Dixie Kong in particular because Dixie fans believed that just because Dixie Kong checked off all the typical criteria for character inclusion (important in their own franchise, popular, had a recent major game role) that she would be a newcomer for both Smash 4 and Ultimate. Now it is the case where she is not even a strong contender for this game's DLC. Dixie Kong could always potentially be decloned, but the opportunity to be a part of the roster, just as it is for many characters that are part of it now, is a narrow window of opportunity. Dixie Kong has already had it shut on her multiple times (not being retooled as a separate fighter in Brawl, Tropical Freeze being unveiled too late to affect Smash 4's roster, the Ballot making K. Rool be prioritized over Dixie Kong). Dixie Kong also has been gone from gaming for long stretches of time (from 1997 to 2004, 2008 to 2014, and now 2014 to ongoing).
Dixie Kong making UItimate's roster even as an echo fighter would be a profound miracle. I personally think that she is much more likely to be some sort of Isabelle style semi-clone if she is made into a newcomer for the next game, and personally I think she has the chops to be entirely unique.
Your comment about her even just being an echo grants far, far more exposure is poignant one. Just look at the example of Dark Samus. That was a character on the edge of being forgotten, yet her, miraculous, inclusion as an echo fighter led to a burst of fan art of the character and many people remembering how cool she is.
Again, I can understand this frustration, but without the clone system there would have been a far smaller roster. In games like Mario Kart I can understand being angry at 'clones' like Tanooki Mario and Pink Gold Peach because the characters in a racing game shouldn't take that much time to make, but in Smash Bros there is a big difference in development time for each individual moveset. Clones like Lucas and Wolf also aren't inherently ripped, they can be just as interesting to play as the original characters, and in some cases more interesting. A lot of people even prefer playing the clones over the original characters, even in cases of echoes. It's like adding seasoning to a dish, sure it's almost the same moveset, but there is a different flavor in how it plays.
I'd rather have the bigger roster, especially since the game's roster is so big at this point it would be almost overwhelming to have so many completely different movesets.
Aside from about half of the echoes (Daisy, Dark Samus, Richter, Dark Pit), the clones have much different playstyles and matchups compared to the character that they are based off of. You are also correct that there are many people that prefer clones and echoes over the character that they are based of of.
Again, we don't even know when the next Smash Bros is, it could be a very long time from now, and Sakurai might not even return, alone assuming that Dixie's popularity doesn't wane even further by that time.
These are very important unknowns to take into account. I already mentioned some of them in my response, but I am glad you already pointed them out.
And no matter what, it's pretty much a guarantee that the next game will cut characters, so this is the last time and chance Dixie has to be able to stand alongside every single veteran in the series, and have a truly perfect roster. I'd would really rather not wait 6-10 years to have her get in a possible reboot that would have huge cuts. Having a spot on this roster would be most ideal, in any circumstance.
That is how I feel too, honestly.
I'd love Ms. Pac-Man. Impa and Octoling would also be my personal favorites to get in.
I think Impa and Octoling are among the most likely additional echoes to happen, and I was a bit surprised that they were not in the base game (especially the Octolings). Even as a possible echo fighter for a possible two or three additional slots, Dixie Kong faces IMMENSE competition. Any route Dixie Kong takes to get on Ultimate's roster (whether being an echo fighter, being part of a possible second fighter's pass, or even somehow part of the current fighter's pass) at this point is simply a miracle and overcoming tremendous odds.
I'm sorry but I'm never going to change my opinion about it, to me it would feel pointless to have her as an echo cause it not only takes away her purpose of character throughout her history but I wouldn't want to underwhelmed with how she's represented(like how I feel about Daisy) and I'm not desperate to have her on the roster just to have her in since I love Ultimate to death as it is.
Having her properly represented as her own characteristics would satisfy pretty much all her fans instead of having a broken base.
Besides that I feel like if they actually wanted her that way they would have done so considering that she has a Mii hat, an spirit that can be enhanced, two online avatars (a rarity for an NPC) and a spirit battle which has her represented by Isabelle (which opens more ideas for what they think how Dixie could work) even the devs might believe that she deserves better than that.
I believe it's better to think the possibility of her being unique at this point since it's something that brings positive thoughts rather than being puzzled about having her stuck as an echo which would have people stuck with disappointment for those who see the huge potential she has with her ponytail.
I do think Dixie Kong could still be true to herself is she was an echo fighter (ideally a Ken-style one).
As I said in prior posts, the amount of flexibility Dixie Kong has for character inclusion (inclusion as an entirely unique fighter, multiple types of semi-clones, multiple types of echoes), is one of the best arguments about why Dixie Kong fans need to be proactive for the next cycle in being heard about their desire for the character's inclusion.
I think Dixie Kong's most likely inclusion if she is ever made playable will be as some sort of semi-clone. Whether it is the Ken-style echo or the Lucas/Wolf kind (similar specials, but different everything else), or something in between (like how Falco/Roy/Ganondorf/Isabelle are).
I am thankful Dixie Kong at least received a Mii hat in Ultimate. Look at Bandana Dee, the only shoutouts he received in Ultimate were a spirit (that is only available by enhancing a Waddle Dee to Level 100) and a profile icon.
I do not think we should argue about how people feel about Dixie Kong's possible playable inclusion. I feel much of the people who are fine with her being an echo, myself included, is just "bargaining" about how she could still make it onto Ultimate's roster when her chances for DLC are as low as they are (and the possible of additional echoes are still low, and the competition for her even being among those few echoes is very high).
It is nothing more than "cognitively dissonant hope". Basically, where the mind says one thing, "Dixie Kong is most likely not going to be DLC for Ultimate.", but the heart is whispering, "but there is still a chance. It might be little. But it is still there." We know it is most likely not going to happen, but we hope that a chance for it is still there.
To each their own. For me having her in at all would be a blessing in it of itself. Although the fact that they didn’t just make her an echo in the base roster might very well increase her chances of being unique for the future.
That is exactly how I feel.
In my 3 month amount of time away from Smashboards, I've seen all 14,000,605 ways the DLC could possibly go and their is only 1 way Dixie makes it into the roster...
Echo! (through a free software update...)
I'm sorry
BirthNote
There is actually only one other way I can see her making it in as DLC, which would be as part of a second Fighter's Pass. The least likely scenario for her is that she is one of the four unannounced characters for the first Fighter's Pass.
As for echoes being a free software update, I highly doubt that would happen considering that Mii costumes were not free, and those have less work put into them. I think the most significant content that was made as free for Smash 4 DLC was some trophies, a few Mii costume.