The King of Iron Fist - Heihachi Mishima

MarcSio277

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In Smash 4, the DLC Mii costumes were treated like consolation prizes for characters that couldn't make it in (Heihachi, Inkling, Geno, K. Rool, etc.). While there haven't been as many gut punches like that this time around, it still seems to be the case here.
I'm not sure if I want to trust it or what. Otherwise I'll fall victim in the "Sakurai didn't say that" info.
 

JudgeHeihachi

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I reckon that was probably a devastating day for a lot of us. But as it stands now, it has happened and we need to accept and move on.
This is a game made for fun so we should continue having fun with it.

I always had something prepared in case Heihachi's mii costume returned.

On the bright side we got his Mii Costume. It may not be the real deal but it's at least something. I made out all the moves that are similar to him there as precausion measurements:

Jab: Flash Punch Combo
Dash Attack: Crouching Dragon Kick
Side Tilt: Right Kick
Up Tilt: Demon Uppercut
Forward Aerial: Hell Axle
Back Aerial: Wind Slicer
Pummel: Stone Head
Neutral Special 2: last hit looks like Wind God Fist
Side Special 1: looks like Crouch Dash
Up Special 3: looks like Dragon Uppercut
Down Special 3: works similar to Heaven's Wrath, just throws into the opposite direction.

We should all purchase the costume to show Nintendo our support for Heihachi in case a Smash 6 might be made one day. If the sales of the costume are good they might take a second look at our favorite karate grandpa. And at least the costume looks better this time due to the Mii Fighter's improved proportions. The giant blocky fists and the short body stature are no more! Don't be disappointed at the costume! Take it as an opportunity!

Looking at it now that he isn't getting in, I sure as hell would like to talk to some modders to convince them to try to implement him. Taking some moves from here mixed with some from Ryu (Up Special = Dragon Uppercut, Side Special = Spinning Demon, Down Special = Lightning Bolt, Up Smash = Demon Uppercut, Down Aerial = Downward Punch, Neutral Special = Hadoken's arm movement is similar to Demon's Breath which could already cover some animation work that way), Captain Falcon (Up Tilt = Tsunami Kick, Side Special = Crouch Dash + Wind God Fist), Snake (Grab + Pummel = Neckbreaker) and Little Mac (Down Special = Heaven's Wrath, Knockout Move = Demon Uppercut) could already cover a lot of assets.

Anyway we should always keep our heads up and always look on the bright side of things
 
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Flyboy

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I reckon that was probably a devastating day for a lot of us. But as it stands now, it has happened and we need to accept and move on.
This is a game made for fun so we should continue having fun with it.

I always had something prepared in case Heihachi's mii costunme returned.

On the bright side we got his Mii Costume. It may not be the real deal but it's at least something. I made out all the moves that are similar to him there as precausion measurements:

Jab: Flash Punch Combo
Dash Attack: Crouching Dragon Kick
Side Tilt: Right Kick
Up Tilt: Demon Uppercut
Forward Aerial: Hell Axle
Back Aerial: Wind Slicer
Pummel: Stone Head
Neutral Special 2: last hit looks like Wind God Fist
Side Special 1: looks like Crouch Dash
Up Special 3: looks like Dragon Uppercut
Down Special 3: works similar to Heaven's Wrath, just throws into the opposite direction.

We should all purchase the costume to show Nintendo our support for Heihachi in case a Smash 6 might be made one day. If the sales of the costume are good they might take a second look at our favorite karate geandpa. And at least the costume looks better this time due to the Mii Fighter's improved proportions. The giant blocky fists and the short body stature are no more! Don't be disappointed at the costume! Take it as an opportunity!

Looking at it now that he isn't getting in, I sure as hell would like to talk to some modders to convince them to try to implement him. Taking some moves from here mixed with some from Ryu (Up Special = Dragon Uppercut, Side Special = Spinning Demon, Down Special = Lightning Bolt, Up Smash = Demon Uppercut, Down Aerial = Downward Punch, Neutral Special = Hadoken's arm movement is similar to Demon's Breath which could already cover some animation work that way), Captain Falcon (Up Tilt = Tsunami Kick, Side Special = Crouch Dash + Wind God Fist), Snake (Grab + Pummel = Neckbreaker) and Little Mac (Down Special = Heaven's Wrath, Knockout Move = Demon Uppercut) could already cover a lot of assets.

Anyway we should always keep our heads up and always look on the bright side of things
Great way of looking at it. I like how positive you are as you're one of the best Heihachi supporters on the site and great at showing why he's so cool. I'll definitely get the costume and do that build. There's always Smash 6, and I'd rather the game have Heihachi at all than have no Heihachi.
 

Megadoomer

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What do you mean?
With Inklings (to use a Smash 4 Mii costume as an example), it might be tough to tell the real deal apart from a Mii costume, at least from a distance.



Up close, it might be more obvious, but when the camera's zoomed out, it might be hard to tell the difference.

That doesn't seem like it would be the case with Heihachi, who's very different from his Mii costume in terms of proportions (and, assuming that they go with the old man version that he's best-known for, age).



Not sure how likely it is, but I'm trying to look for a silver lining.
 
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MarcSio277

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Great way of looking at it. I like how positive you are as you're one of the best Heihachi supporters on the site and great at showing why he's so cool. I'll definitely get the costume and do that build. There's always Smash 6, and I'd rather the game have Heihachi at all than have no Heihachi.
It's been like what months or weeks I talk about this but looks like Jin or Kazuya is our last hope and once again I just want either of them for a Snoop Dogg song.
 

JudgeHeihachi

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Great way of looking at it. I like how positive you are as you're one of the best Heihachi supporters on the site and great at showing why he's so cool. I'll definitely get the costume and do that build. There's always Smash 6, and I'd rather the game have Heihachi at all than have no Heihachi.
Thank you very much!
Yes. Hopefully we'll get a Tekken spirit event too. Sakurai alluded to future use of the mii costume switch-on in spirit battles like with Cuphead's, so there could be a use made with it. It would be cool to get Tekken spirits to equip the Mii Foghter with them. Costume and Spirit can really make it feel like the real thing. Only a music track is missing, lol

With Inklings (to use a Smash 4 Mii costume as an example), it might be tough to tell the real deal apart from a Mii costume, at least from a distance.



Up close, it might be more obvious, but when the camera's zoomed out, it might be hard to tell the difference.

That doesn't seem like it would be the case with Heihachi, who's very different from his Mii costume in terms of proportions (and, assuming that they go with the old man version that he's best-known for, age).



Not sure how likely it is, but I'm trying to look for a silver lining.
To be fair, this time his costume looks better than on the Smash 4 screenshot. If you compare it closely to the new costume trailer he has different proportions. He is taller and his hands and feet are smaller. He looks less cartoony.
He might still happen, but honestly I'm giving up hope for a second Namco character unless a miracle happens and we'd get a third DLC season.
 

Miifighters4Smash5

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I Sure Hope that Mii Costumes really DON'T Deconfirm Characters like Heihachi(Especially since they went with YOUNG Heihachi, instead of OLD MAN HEIHACHI);

But Since Both Ribbon Girl & Spring Man were Deconfirmed due to them both having Mii Fighter Costumes(and in Spring Man's Case, also as an assist trophy)

Only Sakurai himself can say for sure whether Mii Costumes really ARE deconfirmations for characters to be included in the game. . .
 

Wunderwaft

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It sucks that Heihachi is a mii costume again, but I guess that's how life is sometimes. I'm just frustrated that I still haven't gotten a character I really want as DLC yet and Heihachi seemed like the most likely character from my list of most wanted characters.
 

JudgeHeihachi

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It sucks that Heihachi is a mii costume again, but I guess that's how life is sometimes. I'm just frustrated that I still haven't gotten a character I really want as DLC yet and Heihachi seemed like the most likely character from my list of most wanted characters.
Same for me basically. I loved Ridley, K. Rool and Simon's inclusion in the basegame but the DLC characters haven't reached that hype for me personally. The closest are Terry and Banjo, the first for being a character from another fighting game with a huge legacy and the other for being a pure fan-service pick of a former Nintendo character which is commandable. From an objective point of view I can totally understand the DLC desisions. Dragon Quest is a cultural phenomenon in Japan and the grand daddy of JRPGs and Persona 5 was a recent hit with a lot of polish that sold millions. The hardcore marketing and shilling of Fire Emblem seems to pay out for Nintendo since Fire Emblem became successful and ARMS reps a completely new Nintendo franchise that would have been in the same position as Splatoon had't the basegame roster already been decided. But for me personally those don't do that much for me. Dragon Quest I knew since a long time, never played it myself really but I knew some of the great music and the cool artstyle. Persona has groovy music too but was something completely unknown to me. And Byleth and Min Min aren't really legacy characters so for me who probably identifies as a "boomer" who is oftentimes nostalgia blinded they don't really do much for me. But again I can see objectively why they were added. But I'd also say objectively adding Tekken would have made sense too. And also Resident Evil. Both franchises are really big. But so be it. The ship has sailed and we need to make the best out of it.

The Mii Fighter is a first step. We could also create custom stages in the Stage Builder and recreate Tekken stages. I think breakable walls are possible through use of those explosive blocks. We have certain tools available to put Tekken content into the game and we should make the best use of it.
 
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Dreamking

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I was disappointed because of out of the two likely Bamco characters, Heihachi and Lloyd, I wanted Heihachi because I wanted to see a trailer where he goes against Ganondorf. Has Ganondorf ever been featured in a newcomer trailer?
 

Flyboy

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I was disappointed because of out of the two likely Bamco characters, Heihachi and Lloyd, I wanted Heihachi because I wanted to see a trailer where he goes against Ganondorf. Has Ganondorf ever been featured in a newcomer trailer?
Well, he did just get blown away by Min Min's final Smash, but as a crossover character I don't believe so.
 

JudgeHeihachi

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I was disappointed because of out of the two likely Bamco characters, Heihachi and Lloyd, I wanted Heihachi because I wanted to see a trailer where he goes against Ganondorf. Has Ganondorf ever been featured in a newcomer trailer?
Yeah same here.
Now that you mention it I think Ganondorf really never appeared i any trailer cinematic. At least he had a prominent role in the subspace emmisary.
 

Zakhara

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I don't think the limb-based stuff affects a Tekken character's chances at all. In ARMS, the eponymous limbs are the entire game (stretching, steering, kitting out your weapons)... in Tekken it's just the button layout.

Nobody here was thinking Heihachi would exercise that button layout as part of his gameplay before, so why the doom and gloom now?
 
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MarcSio277

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Though one could argue that during the Smash 4 era, the Meta Knight Mii mask was announced first before Meta Knight as a character. Although for Meta Knight's case, his was a mask while Heihachi is a full set costume
 

Giga Kaiju

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Passing by to offer my condolences to Heihachi and his followers. I wasn't exactly a hardcore fan of the character but I did like the character enough due to my history with the series. Tekken 2 and GBA (3) for that matter. And if you want to count that CG movie which had a badass depiction of the Old Man.

Hopefully one day he is considered.

:bowser:.
 

MarcSio277

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So here is what content i would like to see in a Heihachi Mishima DLC pack.
(having his usual old and the younger aged version from Tag Tournament 2 and Tekken 7 as alts, along with his usual black karate gi with a tiger head on the back on it, his Tekken 7 outfit, and his sumo fundoshi loincloth as a gag outfit)
I would base his moveset on the video from FeliciaFan from a few pages back. So in general he is a close-combat-heavy character, whose sets of specials and normals can combo into each other to create different chains of attacks. Some of the moves that are a must have are his iconic Electric Wind God Fist the Spinning Demon and his Dragon Uppercut and incorporating thing like Raijim Stance and other stances. For a final Smash it could be something funny like throwing someone of a cliff or into a volcano, or wrapping them on a rocket and shooting them into outer space. Heihachi is more than a standard brawler.


Stage: Honmaru (Mishima Dojo)
The very iconic temple, which is in the possession of Heihachi and plays the role of an important location in many games. Mostly Tekken 2, 4, 5 and 7.


Music:
Tekken 1 Character Select Screen (Remix)
https://youtu.be/TjPGstmdE84

Tekken 1 Chicago (Remix)
https://youtu.be/75AMKEZS80Y

Tekken 2 Opening (Remix)
https://youtu.be/YFGsfFW2yoE

Tekken 2 Ending/Go Go Go (Remix)
https://youtu.be/z79yEr5nn9I
https://youtu.be/tRb5kgIU0pw

Tekken 3 Heihachi Theme (Arcade) (Original)
https://youtu.be/W_xUUyc8U3I

Tekken 3 Heihachi Theme (Console) (Original)
https://youtu.be/dQ5CWfIzjDE

Tekken 3 Lei Wulong Theme (Remix)
https://youtu.be/QOhAy4zN-1A
https://youtu.be/7FqSRISWu8k

Tekken 4 Fetus (Remix)
https://youtu.be/Lj_Zkx9wYnQ

Tekken 4 The Inner Shrine (Remix)
https://youtu.be/vjr1RpH2Bl4

Tekken 5 Moonlit Wilderness (Original)
https://youtu.be/X86mM6ZMKcc
https://youtu.be/1zoCaaWbcvU

Tekken 5 Antares
https://youtu.be/WzkVqfUq_WA

Tekken 6 Calm Beginning (Remix)
https://youtu.be/iwqz5VdAO8g

Tekken 6 Tunnel Desaster (Original)
https://youtu.be/2EV7Psonm_8

Tekken 7 Kazumi's Theme (Original)
https://youtu.be/kOPClEG87Oc


Spirit Battles:

Kazuya as Ryu; can evolve into Devil Kazuya

Jin as Joker with Arsene; can evolve into Devil Jin

Paul as either Ken or Terry with Guile's assist trophy equipped due to their similair flat-top-hairstyles

Nina as Zero Suit Samus

Law as Diddy Kong, because both are very fast attackers and make similar sounds

King as Incineroar

Yoshimitsu as Fierce Deity Link with a Gray Fox assist trophy

Jack as Metal Donkey Kong

Michelle or Julia as Daisy

Lee as Robin

Kuma as Banjo

Jun or Asuka as Lucina

Lei as Captain Falcon

Xiaoyu as Wii Fit Trainer with Yuri Kozukata as an assist trophy

Lili as White Dress Peach

Lars as Chrom

Ancient Ogre as K. Rool; can evolve into True Ogre

Jinpachi as Ganondorf

Azazel as Ridley

Kazumi as Bayonetta; can evolve into Devil Kazumi


Mii costumes:
Heihachi (returning)
Jin
Kazuya
Paul
Nina
Yoshimitsu
Jack
Lloyd (Tales)(only if he isn't a character on his own)
Gil (Tower of Druaga)

What do you think about these choices?
Let me make a Spirit Battles based on most of the choices you make for TEKKEN 3 characters
Devil_Jin_TTT2.png
Spirit: Devil Jin
Opponent: Jin Kazama (Cloak)
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
-The enemy loves to jump
-The enemy will suddenly have a Final Smash
Stage: Garreg Mach Monastery (Marketplace)
Music: Hatred

Bryan_Fury_TTT2.png
Spirit: Bryan Fury
Opponent: :ultwolf:(Blue)
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
Items: Shooting-type items
Stage: Shadow Moses Island (Ω)
Music: Bryan Fury

Eddy_Gordo_TTT2.png
Spirit: Eddy Gordo
Opponent: :ultryu:(Green)
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
-The enemy loves to taunt (Down Taunt)
Stage: Wuhu Island (Sugarsand Beach)
Music: Eddy Gordo

Julia_Chang_-_CG_Art_Image_-_Tekken_6_Bloodline_Rebellion.png
Spirit: Julia Chang
Opponent: :ultlucina:(Yellow)
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
Stage: Windy Hill Zone
Music: Julia Chang
Enhance: Can Enhance to Jaycee

PngItem_4726930.png
Spirit: Ling Xiaoyu
Opponent: :ultminmin(Default), :ultbanjokazooie:(White)
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
Stage: Town & City
Music: Ling Xiaoyu

Mokujin_TTT2.png
Spirit: Mokujin
Opponent: :ultbrawler:, :ultgunner:, :ultswordfighter:
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
-The opponent favors Neutral Special
Stage: Distant Planet (Ω)
Music: Environmental Noises

Tiger-Jackson-PNG-File.png
Spirit: Tiger Jackson
Opponent: :ultsonic:(Orange)
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
-The enemy loves to taunt (Down Taunt)
Stage: Fourside (Ω)
Music: Eddy Gordo

Ogre_Tekken_Tag_Tournament_2.png
Spirit: Ogre
Opponent: :ultganondorf:(Grey)
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
Stage: Spear Pillar
Music: Ogre
Enhance: Can Enhance to True Ogre
 
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JudgeHeihachi

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Let me make a Spirit Battles based on most of the choices you make for TEKKEN 3 characters
View attachment 280931
Spirit: Devil Jin
Opponent: Jin Kazama (Cloak)
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
-The enemy loves to jump
-The enemy will suddenly have a Final Smash
Stage: Garreg Mach Monastery (Marketplace)
Music: Hatred

View attachment 280747
Spirit: Bryan Fury
Opponent: :ultwolf:(Blue)
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
Items: Shooting-type items
Stage: Shadow Moses Island (Ω)
Music: Bryan Fury

View attachment 280748
Spirit: Eddy Gordo
Opponent: :ultryu:(Green)
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
-The enemy loves to taunt (Down Taunt)
Stage: Wuhu Island (Sugarsand Beach)
Music: Eddy Gordo

View attachment 280749
Spirit: Julia Chang
Opponent: :ultlucina:(Yellow)
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
Stage: Windy Hill Zone
Music: Julia Chang
Enhance: Can Enhance to Jaycee

View attachment 280756
Spirit: Ling Xiaoyu
Opponent: :ultminmin(Default), :ultbanjokazooie:(White)
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
Stage: Town & City
Music: Ling Xiaoyu

View attachment 280751
Spirit: Mokujin
Opponent: :ultbrawler:, :ultgunner:, :ultswordfighter:
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
-The opponent favors Neutral Special
Stage: Distant Planet (Ω)
Music: Environmental Noises

View attachment 280752
Spirit: Tiger Jackson
Opponent: :ultsonic:(Orange)
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
-The enemy loves to taunt (Down Taunt)
Stage: Fourside (Ω)
Music: Eddy Gordo

View attachment 280753
Spirit: Ogre
Opponent: :ultganondorf:(Grey)
Conditions:
-Stamina Battle
-All fighters have reduced jump power
Stage: Spear Pillar
Music: Ogre
Enhance: Can Enhance to True Ogre
That was a nice read. Listening to Tekken 3's soundtrack I'm getting all nostalgic again. So this is assumimg Jin becomes a character later on, right? Also shoutout for including Panda in Xiaoyu's battle. All of them are competetive stamina battles so fittingly very Tekken-like.

Thanks for keeping this thread alive since that fateful day in June.
I've stepped away from Smash speculation since us probably not getting a Tekken character anymore took away a lot of motivation for the game from me. I'm still interested in the last five characters and hope someone like Ryu Hayabusa gets in but I would be lying if I said I was as passionate about him and my other most wanteds as I was about Heihachi. This combined with the scarcity of Nintendo news in general recently made me lose some interest and thus take some distance from too much Smash speculation. I'm still holding out hope for a Tekken spirit event since I think an appearance in Pac-Man's taunt and a mii costume aren't enough to reference one of the biggest fighting game series.

Anyway how should we continue moving forward? It seems like at the moment we can't do anything but wait. The characters have already been decided and the costume returned. If Namco does not get a second character after all DLC is finished I don't even know if there will ever be a chance in a future Smash game. If Namco tries to not be over-prioritized for their involvement in developing Smash we are probably in for a bad time. The lack of Namco content in Smash is a shame.

Since this question fits due to the current trial: how do you like Pokken and is it worthy as a modified Tekken game featuring Pokemon characters? I will write a detailed opinion later own.
 
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