The Jet-Black General, Black Knight, Echoes into Smash

[Roberk]

>Black Knight gets a Support Thread
>Title tagline isn't "Warps into Smash".
Smh, I thought you guys were better than this when we kept on mentioning Warp Powder for his Up-B.

 

[Sigran101]

>Black Knight gets a Support Thread
>Title tagline isn't "Warps into Smash".
Smh, I thought you guys were better than this when we kept on mentioning Warp Powder for his Up-B.

I'd love to have his song referenced too. What about "Unstoppable Destiny: Black Knight Warps into Smash"

 

[Barbasol]

So I was doing some Fire Emblem: Heroes wikia-ing when I noticed Zelgius/BK is voiced by Robert Clotworthy. This is an interesting note because he's actually a fairly well-known video game voice actor - notable being the voice of James Raynor from Starcraft.

I wonder if them casting a non-noname actor in FE:H has to do with them having some additional focus on that characters VO across different titles?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

So I was doing some Fire Emblem: Heroes wikia-ing when I noticed Zelgius/BK is voiced by Robert Clotworthy. This is an interesting note because he's actually a fairly well-known video game voice actor - notable being the voice of James Raynor from Starcraft.

I wonder if them casting a non-noname actor in FE:H has to do with them having some additional focus on that characters VO across different titles?

I just love how he sounds in heroes. You can get a good grasp of his personality.

TBH what helps him is that in general FE antagonists can be meh (some like Lyon and BK are great). Honestly I hope that Three Houses has a good villain. Validar is the worst villain the series has ever had, with Garon close behind.

 

[Captain Hazama]

I just love how he sounds in heroes. You can get a good grasp of his personality.

TBH what helps him is that in general FE antagonists can be meh (some like Lyon and BK are great). Honestly I hope that Three Houses has a good villain. Validar is the worst villain the series has ever had, with Garon close behind.

I don't know, making your son/daughter into the vessel for the Grimleafs god, Grima is pretty evil to me. Sure he might not have destroyed the future himself, but at least he is the reason it even started.

 

[Barbasol]

I don't know, making your son/daughter into the vessel for the Grimleafs god, Grima is pretty evil to me. Sure he might not have destroyed the future himself, but at least he is the reason it even started.

Definitely evil - but not complex evil. One thing I think people appreciate about Zelgius is he's not an out-and-out villain, he's a General on the other side of the war. He is fairly justified in his actions, and while his chivalrous devotion to Sephiran ultimately forms the muscle of the big plot - he's doing it out of duty and not out of a desire to destroy the world.

I loved this about his character in Radiant Dawn where as Zelgius he is shown to be an honorable commander and respected by the other side of the conflict. And as Black Knight, he even joins your party on several occasions.

 

[Oasis_S]

He did kill a dude just out of a selfless desire to prove his strength, lol.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I don't know, making your son/daughter into the vessel for the Grimleafs god, Grima is pretty evil to me. Sure he might not have destroyed the future himself, but at least he is the reason it even started.

Grima is a force of nature, not a character. Grima exists as destruction incarnate, without really any purpose, backstory, or personality to make it interesting.

If you want to see a Chaotic Evil character done right, complex Chaotic Evil characters such as Kefka from FF6, Luca Blight from Suidoken II, or even Ashnard from FF PoR.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

I think it's very unlikely. In my opinion, the echos are purposefully chosen not only because they could work with another character's moveset, but because they have a reason to fight like their original. It would go against their very design to "de-echo" them. And it'd look weird considering how you can stack the echo on top of their original in the CSS.



I have a very different view on the Chrom argument, I think it's actually very weak. Honestly, I felt the speculation around Chrom being an echo of Ike was strongly biased, and that most speculators blinded each other. Chrom has no reason whatsoever to fight like Ike, he has a clearly different class, with Ike's being mercenary based, they also have no lore connexion at all, and they don't even wield the same weapon. Yes, they share some design similarities, and yes, they were compared in Palutena's guidance. But Sakurai stated Chrom was scraped because he would be a middleground between Marth and Ike, which wasn't as interesting as Robin using magic tomes. Then Roy came back, filling that space inbetween Marth and Ike. What's more, having him as Roy's echo links him with both Lucina and Marth, whom he shares a lore connexion with. Oh, and Marth and his three clones all have a very similar class in the game, which justify them fighting in similar ways pretty well. In my opinion him being Roy's echo, although it is indeed weird, fits him way more than echoing Ike.

If anything, Chrom's presence in the game could be used as a counter-argument to BK's playability. It would be a lot to have two echos from Fire Emblem in one game, wouldn't it? Anyway, I think the other arguments you brought up are actually really solid, and more than enough to justify the current speculation around him.

I think it's mostly Palutena's Guidance that made it surprising that Chrom is a Roy echo more than anything else.

 

[Barbasol]

He did kill a dude just out of a selfless desire to prove his strength, lol.

Haha - sort of. Greil was his master and he did kill him to prove that he had surpassed him, but Greil was a fellow Rider of Daein, the chosen of the Mad King Ashnard. Greil ultimately defected and went rogue - so BK would have been pretty motivated to track him down anyway.

 

[Oasis_S]

That's fair and all but come on, he was obsessed with the guy.

Also I did just start playing PoR and plan to play RD just so I can appreciate the Black Knight even more. My poor, foolish girlfriend, who is a big FE fan, just can't understand why I'm obsessed with this dude. Although she hasn't played RD yet so she says Black Knight "just some **** that gets in your way randomly."

Also good to see you Barbasol. Hey remember when I was a jerk about Duck Hunt.

 

[Barbasol]

That's fair and all but come on, he was obsessed with the guy.

Also I did just start playing PoR and plan to play RD just so I can appreciate the Black Knight even more. My poor, foolish girlfriend, who is a big FE fan, just can't understand why I'm obsessed with this dude. Although she hasn't played RD yet so she says Black Knight "just some **** that gets in your way randomly."

Also good to see you Barbasol. Hey remember when I was a jerk about Duck Hunt.

Yeah - I actually have yet to track down a copy of PoR - really wish we got a rerelease!

I am still so smugly proud of guessing Duck Hunt for four XD

 

[rockerpikmin]

I'm up for this! While he would be ANOTHER Fire Emblem Echo, he'd be a bone for those who like Ike, but more importantly he looks awesome.

 

[Sigran101]

That's fair and all but come on, he was obsessed with the guy.

Also I did just start playing PoR and plan to play RD just so I can appreciate the Black Knight even more. My poor, foolish girlfriend, who is a big FE fan, just can't understand why I'm obsessed with this dude. Although she hasn't played RD yet so she says Black Knight "just some **** that gets in your way randomly."hi

Also good to see you Barbasol. Hey remember when I was a jerk about Duck Hunt.[/QUOT

That's fair and all but come on, he was obsessed with the guy.

Also I did just start playing PoR and plan to play RD just so I can appreciate the Black Knight even more. My poor, foolish girlfriend, who is a big FE fan, just can't understand why I'm obsessed with this dude. Although she hasn't played RD yet so she says Black Knight "just some **** that gets in your way randomly."

Also good to see you Barbasol. Hey remember when I was a jerk about Duck Hunt.

My fiance is the opposite. She literally threw a pro controller at the wall when she found out Black Knight wasn't in FE Warriors. If she cared about Smash Bros. she'd probably have started this thread back when the game got announced, but unfortunately the only fighting games she likes are ARMS and Skullgirls.

Edit: Not sure what happened with this post. I made the mistake of letting my fiance edit my post to make it more "correct" and now it looks like this. My post is at the end of the quote for some reason. Sorry.

 

[smashingDoug]

I remember reading a YouTube comment (bottom of the barrel I know) complaining that Chrom should be cut in favor of Shovel Knight or Alucard. I just shake my head, like, how the hell do people not realize that characters like that don't take "slots" after Sakurai very painstakingly made it as obvious as possible with the Echo Fighter label, or even realize how much more work a unique fighter takes? I have to believe that they are being willingly dense or trolling cause I can't believe that people are just that stupid to not even grasp the basics of game development or time management.

Just don’t take them seriously

 

[Barbasol]

Yeah, I just try to remember people are coming at it with a different perspective than we do. If someone is looking at it from an outside perspective they see one character instead of the one they want - they dont really take the time to understand the design, production, quality processes that would drive a newcomer rather than an echo.

 

[HairMythe]

Strong arguements about Chrom. Not agreeing with what you said about Black Knight however. Zelda already has 3 Links in. And Ganondorf is a Luigified C.Falcon clone who borrows Ike's F Smash and U Smash and Cloud's D Smash. Speaking!! Black Knight could do just that. Borrow Ike's animations, but take Ganondorf's build and stats or something similar like that.

I'm not really agreeing myself with what I said on BK, actually. My point was actually to show that Chrom could also be considered a bad point for BK, not much more. I still rather characters be included out of their own merit. Overall I'm usually shaking my head when conclusions are drawn out of Chrom's presence and presented as strong arguments for crazy ideas, as I feel like the peculiarities concerning his inclusion are mostly due to exceptional circumstances. For now, it feels like, more than any other echo, that he got in because he was Chrom, and not because the roster was ideal for his inclusion.

To get back on topic, yeah, in theory, you could adjust an echo stats... The problem with this, and the reason why the echo tends to stay so close to their original, is that it means the character will need to be rebalanced, and one of the main virtue of echos is to have minimal rebalancing to do. It's hard to tell how BK would fare with Ike's moveset and a Ganondorf-like framedata. That's one of the reason I think the need of different stats for BK is a quite big obstacle for him right now; we can assume it would make him harder to develop than other echo fighters. Well, on the other hand, the team did prove they can put a lot of effort even in an echo, so why not?

 

[Captain Hazama]

He could a Luigified clone instead of being an echo. Which I do understand what your saying. If he's an echo of Ike, he'll have the same run speed, weight, and even attack speed as him.

If we make Black Knight heavier, even changing some of his damage output, he wouldn't really be an echo anymore.

 

[User Name String]

He could a Luigified clone instead of being an echo. Which I do understand what your saying. If he's an echo of Ike, he'll have the same run speed, weight, and even attack speed as him.

If we make Black Knight heavier, even changing some of his damage output, he wouldn't really be an echo anymore.

While there is no proof to this D Samus is supposedly lighter than Samus, so that is not a deterrent.

 

[Oasis_S]

I believe the "floatier movement" thing was just pointing out the cosmetic changes of her movements, seeing as how she levitates.

Also the differences between Black Knight and Ike compared to Dark Samus and Samus would presumably be much greater, necessarily requiring more drastic changes overall.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Would the changes for Ike and the Black Knight really be that great?

I get that the Black Knight is not a super fast guy but neither is Ike. It is not like he is going to be running as fast as Marth or something. At most the only major change I think he would need is a teleport recovery (they already use the warp powder effect for entrances they could just reuse that asset), and maybe tweak Eruption. Hell, you could take an animations from Mii Swordfighter like Diddy Kong suggested.

It also makes sense for him to fight like Ike. They literally learned how to fight from the same guy, they use twin swords. I get Zelgius has some big armor but Ike is already a heavyweight.

 

[Folt]

Grima is a force of nature, not a character. Grima exists as destruction incarnate, without really any purpose, backstory, or personality to make it interesting.

If you want to see a Chaotic Evil character done right, complex Chaotic Evil characters such as Kefka from FF6, Luca Blight from Suidoken II, or even Ashnard from FF PoR.

Nah. Grima is like Medeus: Someone who hates the negative qualities of humans and wants to wipe them out so he can take charge of shaping the world however he wants.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Nah. Grima is like Medeus: Someone who hates the negative qualities of humans and wants to wipe them out so he can take charge of shaping the world however he wants.

Grima only got any true characterization in FE Heroes, years after awakening released. In his own games, he is flat without any real development.

 

[Folt]

Grima only got any true characterization in FE Heroes, years after awakening released. In his own games, he is flat without any real development.

Actually, his characterization in Heroes is hinted at in Awakening itself: In the scene where Grima attacks Lucina, his speech implies that he wants to exterminate humans... but not the world itself. That practically implies he has a beef with humans.

 

[Oasis_S]

For the Black Knight to be an echo as we currently understand them, it would just look like a shoddy fan hack. For the amount of effort it would take to make that not be the case, he may as well be his own character.

 

[rockerpikmin]

He could a Luigified clone instead of being an echo. Which I do understand what your saying. If he's an echo of Ike, he'll have the same run speed, weight, and even attack speed as him.

If we make Black Knight heavier, even changing some of his damage output, he wouldn't really be an echo anymore.

Weight is a variable covered under the definition of Echo Fighters:
"Basic parameters such as attack power and launch power, walking and running speed, jump height, weight, etc. are about the same as the original fighter"

 

[Kotor]

Actually, his characterization in Heroes is hinted at in Awakening itself: In the scene where Grima attacks Lucina, his speech implies that he wants to exterminate humans... but not the world itself. That practically implies he has a beef with humans.

Well Grima's "dad" decided he was too dangerous to be kept alive and tried to kill him but failed. Add on to that a bunch of random people showed up and tried to do the same thing. Who could blame Grima for losing faith in humanity?

 

[User Name String]

Actually, his characterization in Heroes is hinted at in Awakening itself: In the scene where Grima attacks Lucina, his speech implies that he wants to exterminate humans... but not the world itself. That practically implies he has a beef with humans.

Echo's actually explains to a degree its natural hate for humans.

 

[Sigran101]

For the Black Knight to be an echo as we currently understand them, it would just look like a shoddy fan hack. For the amount of effort it would take to make that not be the case, he may as well be his own character.

Man, I really wish that could happen. Unique Black Knight would be so awesome. Unfortunately his only chance now is as an echo. I really think Sakurai could make it work. Black Knight fits much better as an echo than Dark Samus but she (he? It?) Looks fine.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well alright, make him his own character then. They can just heavily take inspiration from both Ike and Ganondorf's movesets. I still say, Ike + Ganondorf + blender = Black Knight Zelgius, but then again, who am I?

I also was sort of pondering if the absent "Black Knight" from Castle Siege might mean he's a stage obstacle this time? Just imagine him swinging his blade wildly, shooting sword projectiles and having super armor untill you finally defeat him?

Yeah, that's worse than having him playable, but still... Black Knight as a fully unique character will not happen.

WHERE ARE THE NEW SEMI-CLONES WHEN YOU NEED THEM!?

No honestly.. ****. If they can already take the easy route of adding Echoes, give us less Daisys and more Wolfs and Lucases. Quality over quanity. This will also relieve me of the sheer horror of seeing Dixie as a Diddy Echo.

 

[Draugen]

Well alright, make him his own character then. They can just heavily take inspiration from both Ike and Ganondorf's movesets. I still say, Ike + Ganondorf + blender = Black Knight Zelgius, but then again, who am I?

I also was sort of pondering if the absent "Black Knight" from Castle Siege might mean he's a stage obstacle this time? Just imagine him swinging his blade wildly, shooting sword projectiles and having super armor untill you finally defeat him?

Yeah, that's worse than having him playable, but still... Black Knight as a fully unique character will not happen.

WHERE ARE THE NEW SEMI-CLONES WHEN YOU NEED THEM!?

No honestly.. ****. If they can already take the easy route of adding Echoes, give us less Daisys and more Wolfs and Lucases. Quality over quanity. This will also relieve me of the sheer horror of seeing Dixie as a Diddy Echo.

I feel your pain, specially considering Dixie's chances now. But I'm also some kind of madman too. I'd like that every character had an echo fighter. EVERY. CHARACTER. Even Bowser, with Wart or some other **** lol. Echoes are the new fashion trend!

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I feel your pain, specially considering Dixie's chances now. But I'm also some kind of madman too. I'd like that every character had an echo fighter. EVERY. CHARACTER. Even Bowser, with Wart or some other **** lol. Echoes are the new fashion trend!

Honestly; Wart over K. Rool though

 

[Diddy Kong]

I feel your pain, specially considering Dixie's chances now. But I'm also some kind of madman too. I'd like that every character had an echo fighter. EVERY. CHARACTER. Even Bowser, with Wart or some other **** lol. Echoes are the new fashion trend!

That’s mad indeed, but respectfully so. I wouldn’t mind Echoes for all characters either, as long as they fit. Have a hard time imagining Duck Hunt or Rosalina having Echoes for example. And I don’t want Litteral Who’s in this either.

Am also not opposed to having characters being thrown in the blender and create some crazy hybrid characters out of them.

For example Black Knight = Ike + Ganondorf’s stats
Dixie Kong = Diddy + DK + floatiness
Impa = Sheik + Cloud, if we go by the Hyrule Warriors design
Paper Mario = Mario + Mr. Game & Watch

These characters all have been way more requested than the likes of Dark Samus, Daisy and Richter Belmont I would imagine.

Now add to the fun...

Celcia : Robin + Roy’s Neutral B + Din’s Fire + Pichu’s recoil mechanic

And there the creativity stops... am tired anyway.

Honestly; Wart over K. Rool though

Wart would just be a fat Greninja. Outta here with that bull****.

 

[Draugen]

That’s mad indeed, but respectfully so. I wouldn’t mind Echoes for all characters either, as long as they fit. Have a hard time imagining Duck Hunt or Rosalina having Echoes for example. And I don’t want Litteral Who’s in this either.

Am also not opposed to having characters being thrown in the blender and create some crazy hybrid characters out of them.

For example Black Knight = Ike + Ganondorf’s stats
Dixie Kong = Diddy + DK + floatiness
Impa = Sheik + Cloud, if we go by the Hyrule Warriors design
Paper Mario = Mario + Mr. Game & Watch

These characters all have been way more requested than the likes of Dark Samus, Daisy and Richter Belmont I would imagine.

Now add to the fun...

Celcia : Robin + Roy’s Neutral B + Din’s Fire + Pichu’s recoil mechanic

And there the creativity stops... am tired anyway.

Wart would just be a fat Greninja. Outta here with that bull****.

Yeah, your idea is pretty nice. They shouldn't have to create the newcomer as a full newcomer. I mean, we could get for a character some unique moves, but I could see your blender ideas. I think they used that concept a little on K. Rool, giving him Bowser's WWE kick, Ganondorf's punch to the side in the air (sorry, I really enjoy Smash but can't get used with all that weird names for the moves, I just describe them as I see fit - rebel guy here).

 

[TCT~Phantom]

That’s mad indeed, but respectfully so. I wouldn’t mind Echoes for all characters either, as long as they fit. Have a hard time imagining Duck Hunt or Rosalina having Echoes for example. And I don’t want Litteral Who’s in this either.

Am also not opposed to having characters being thrown in the blender and create some crazy hybrid characters out of them.

For example Black Knight = Ike + Ganondorf’s stats
Dixie Kong = Diddy + DK + floatiness
Impa = Sheik + Cloud, if we go by the Hyrule Warriors design
Paper Mario = Mario + Mr. Game & Watch

These characters all have been way more requested than the likes of Dark Samus, Daisy and Richter Belmont I would imagine.

Now add to the fun...

Celcia : Robin + Roy’s Neutral B + Din’s Fire + Pichu’s recoil mechanic

And there the creativity stops... am tired anyway.

Wart would just be a fat Greninja. Outta here with that bull****.

While I would vastly prefer this, it does not seem likely. At best the most different and echo will be will be either Dark Samus in animation or Chrom in function. As much as I dread this, Dixie is probs gonna end up as just a Diddy with a different up b and a slightly different popgun. I wish we could get more Wolfs and Roys, but instead I feel we will get more echos, which I have accepted.

Honestly I feel the Chrom/Dark Samus treatment is what I think should be ideal for echos. They may share some basic functionality and gameplan, but they have these small nuances that make them have their own little spin. I wish they gave Lucina Awakening Aether as well, it would have been so much better for this idea. Regardless of that, we have to just consider a few questions when thinking of a Black Knight echo.

First, does it make sense for him to be based off of Ike? Lorewise, yes. Both were taught by Greil/Gawain. Both share the same sword fighting style. They even share twin legendary swords. While there might need to be one or two fixes (namely a Warp Powder Up B and maybe an Eruption tweek), I feel the majority of the moveset makes sense. Perhaps the biggest problem people have is a big guy like Zelgius being as mobile as Ike. To be blunt, Ike already has poor mobility. His run speed is average at best, his jump height and walk speed are poor, and his air speed is only decent. Zelgius has proven he is faster than assumed, so I would say that him having Ike's stats, with maybe a few small tweeks, would be ideal.

Secondly, is there enough demand that would allow the Black Knight to get in? I feel that there are a few things that we can use as evidence to lead up to a yes. Firstly, there clearly is some effort in this game to represent antagonists. Black Knight, being the most popular fire emblem antagonist, helps fill the niche of a Fire Emblem villain. While people might be worried about Fire Emblem getting more content, I feel that with the inclusion of Chrom, Sakurai is sticking to his thoughts of echos as bonuses to please people. While Fire Emblem is probably not getting a unique newcomer for the base game (TH getting a DLC character, that I can see), it already has gotten an echo, and there clearly is something up with the Black Knight being AWOL on Castle Siege. Secondly, Black Knight has to have had some demand of sorts to get a DLC costume, especially one that uses new assets. There was no easy place to pull assets for that costume from. Either he has fan demand, or Sakurai is a fan of the character enough to give him a DLC mii costume with new assets. These combinations of factors lead me to believe that yes, he has enough demand to make it in.

Finally, does it make sense for the Black Knight to appear as a character in general? For this smash, I would say relevancy is not an issue, as it is trumped by popularity. While Chrom still gets pushed from time to time since Awakening is one of the most important FE games, he was not exactly front and center for the franchise. Dark Samus is dead, so unless she cheats death like Ridley, she is not appearing in another Metroid game. Richter was clearly chosen due to his popularity in Japan among Castlevania fans. Also don't diss on Daisy. I am not a fan of her, but she has mad casual appeal. I can understand stating that Dixie might have more demand for Smash than Daisy, but I am pretty sue they know more casual fans would be elated by Daisy being in. With these four being chosen, I feel it is obvious that echos are chosen for their popularity, rather than their relevancy. As addressed in my second point, I feel Black Knight fits for that.

Overall, I am very confident in the Black Knight will appear in this game as Ike's echo. I will be giving an extremely high score in the RTC thread on his day (I will post in this thread with a link on the day). If you wanted me to give a number as a ballpark guess, I would give a 90%. This is the score I gave Dark Samus, and aside from Richter being a pleasant surprise, I rated every character that has gotten in pretty well. I feel my gut is right on this one. Depending on how I feel on his day, give or take five extra percent.

 

[Sigran101]

While I would vastly prefer this, it does not seem likely. At best the most different and echo will be will be either Dark Samus in animation or Chrom in function. As much as I dread this, Dixie is probs gonna end up as just a Diddy with a different up b and a slightly different popgun. I wish we could get more Wolfs and Roys, but instead I feel we will get more echos, which I have accepted.

Honestly I feel the Chrom/Dark Samus treatment is what I think should be ideal for echos. They may share some basic functionality and gameplan, but they have these small nuances that make them have their own little spin. I wish they gave Lucina Awakening Aether as well, it would have been so much better for this idea. Regardless of that, we have to just consider a few questions when thinking of a Black Knight echo.

First, does it make sense for him to be based off of Ike? Lorewise, yes. Both were taught by Greil/Gawain. Both share the same sword fighting style. They even share twin legendary swords. While there might need to be one or two fixes (namely a Warp Powder Up B and maybe an Eruption tweek), I feel the majority of the moveset makes sense. Perhaps the biggest problem people have is a big guy like Zelgius being as mobile as Ike. To be blunt, Ike already has poor mobility. His run speed is average at best, his jump height and walk speed are poor, and his air speed is only decent. Zelgius has proven he is faster than assumed, so I would say that him having Ike's stats, with maybe a few small tweeks, would be ideal.

Secondly, is there enough demand that would allow the Black Knight to get in? I feel that there are a few things that we can use as evidence to lead up to a yes. Firstly, there clearly is some effort in this game to represent antagonists. Black Knight, being the most popular fire emblem antagonist, helps fill the niche of a Fire Emblem villain. While people might be worried about Fire Emblem getting more content, I feel that with the inclusion of Chrom, Sakurai is sticking to his thoughts of echos as bonuses to please people. While Fire Emblem is probably not getting a unique newcomer for the base game (TH getting a DLC character, that I can see), it already has gotten an echo, and there clearly is something up with the Black Knight being AWOL on Castle Siege. Secondly, Black Knight has to have had some demand of sorts to get a DLC costume, especially one that uses new assets. There was no easy place to pull assets for that costume from. Either he has fan demand, or Sakurai is a fan of the character enough to give him a DLC mii costume with new assets. These combinations of factors lead me to believe that yes, he has enough demand to make it in.

Finally, does it make sense for the Black Knight to appear as a character in general? For this smash, I would say relevancy is not an issue, as it is trumped by popularity. While Chrom still gets pushed from time to time since Awakening is one of the most important FE games, he was not exactly front and center for the franchise. Dark Samus is dead, so unless she cheats death like Ridley, she is not appearing in another Metroid game. Richter was clearly chosen due to his popularity in Japan among Castlevania fans. Also don't diss on Daisy. I am not a fan of her, but she has mad casual appeal. I can understand stating that Dixie might have more demand for Smash than Daisy, but I am pretty sue they know more casual fans would be elated by Daisy being in. With these four being chosen, I feel it is obvious that echos are chosen for their popularity, rather than their relevancy. As addressed in my second point, I feel Black Knight fits for that.

Overall, I am very confident in the Black Knight will appear in this game as Ike's echo. I will be giving an extremely high score in the RTC thread on his day (I will post in this thread with a link on the day). If you wanted me to give a number as a ballpark guess, I would give a 90%. This is the score I gave Dark Samus, and aside from Richter being a pleasant surprise, I rated every character that has gotten in pretty well. I feel my gut is right on this one. Depending on how I feel on his day, give or take five extra percent.

I completely agree with this, but to add to it, BK is more relavent than one might think because of FE heroes where I hear he is a big meta game choice. I'd put him at 65% though because I have to because if I put him at 90% and he isn't in, the crushing disappointment will cause my body to collapse in on itself and become a black hole.

 

[User Name String]

This is an odd question, but how would you guys feel if BK was a boss?

 

[Sigran101]

This is an odd question, but how would you guys feel if BK was a boss?

Better than nothing at least. Still disappointed he's not playable. I really doubt he'll be a boss though.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

I think the only thing that could keep Black Knight out of playability is Sakurai's worry about too many FE characters that he shared some time after Corrin's inclusion. Sure we got Chrom, but the demand for him was definitely stronger than for Black Knight, given how many felt he got deconfirmed too harshly. It's why I think the chances of him being a boss are pretty good. Sakurai could satiate some levels of support by providing Black Knight a much more ample role than he's ever had in the series.

 

[Deathcarter]

This is an odd question, but how would you guys feel if BK was a boss?

I'd be a bit annoyed that it wasn't Duma who's the right size, has a cool aesthetic, and has enough unique powers to set himself apart from Rathalos. BK as a boss would be awkward since he'd either be smaller than some of the playable fighters or would outright tower over Ike.