The how to handle stupid moves thread! (REVIVAL! snake ftilt.)!)

[iRJi]

For anticipation sake, Fsmash is a good thing to use only if you know he is going to Jump and Fair you. Also, on the rising Fair its best to just Ftilt.




Ftilt is actually the best way to punish fair overall, but you have to take down Marths fair in separate ways to properly Analyze it. When Marth is doing a rising Fair, you can punish with Ftilt, or even sometimes Uair depending on how far he is trying to go with it. On the falling Fair, the best punishment is grab if you are in range after shielding. Other then that back off from marth. The reason why its best to use grab on the falling fair instead of any other move is because Marth can punish anything else you throw (Jab, Utilt, ETC) Not to mention Grab i the only option you have straight out of shield without using shield drop, which you have to take account for because shield dropping has frame lag. It's small, but in that case it really matters.

Just to refresh this page for one of the punishments of Marths Fair. Videos that are shown to make it a good use:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7Z77v7GQc

and this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MAwj7ZXGJ4
__________________

 

[RT]

RoyR once told me that Lee Martin says the Marth matchup is completely in Lucario's favor if you know what you're doing. I don't know if he actually said this, but I guess Lee Martin knows something special, lol.

Too bad he gets wrecked by Olimars, just like the rest of us. <_<

 

[phi1ny3]

I've heard that some of the marth boards could actually agree with that lol. Marth's killing prowess is eclipsed by lucario's, for one thing. Unless he gets a gimp, which usually is slightly risky in the first place, lucario is actually going to live for quite a bit, especially since lucario's moves get more shieldstun as he gets more buffs. Too bad he's slower T.T
It's not that I entirely agree with Luca's favor, but I think it's a bit closer than "lol we got omg slaughtered", although I think snake is pretty scary. That's me though.

 

[iRJi]

I've heard that some of the marth boards could actually agree with that lol. Marth's killing prowess is eclipsed by lucario's, for one thing. Unless he gets a gimp, which usually is slightly risky in the first place, lucario is actually going to live for quite a bit, especially since lucario's moves get more shieldstun as he gets more buffs. Too bad he's slower T.T
It's not that I entirely agree with Luca's favor, but I think it's a bit closer than "lol we got omg slaughtered", although I think snake is pretty scary. That's me though.

its a 6:4 if you wanna talk numbers. The whole realistic thing about it is marth is just a character who has a bit more range where he needs it, and a faster character. Despite him being light, he can get kills fairly well against lucario, and that is what makes it in his favor. Other then that, its no more than that 6:4 number.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

RoyR once told me that Lee Martin says the Marth matchup is completely in Lucario's favor if you know what you're doing. I don't know if he actually said this, but I guess Lee Martin knows something special, lol.

Too bad he gets wrecked by Olimars, just like the rest of us. <_<

Speak for yourself.

 

[iRJi]

Lol, I 2nd Luigi, and a plethora of other characters right after Luigi, Olimar is cake =D

 

[RT]

Speak for yourself.

You do realize Lee lost to an Olimar last tourney he went to in Houston right? And this Olimar player has managed to beat every Lucario player in the Southwest at one point or another.

And I wasn't being completely serious about the last comment. <_<

 

[Aurasmash14]

We actually had discussion today? nice. also mythtrainer, ill take you up on that offer.

 

[mars16]

Mt way of keeping from getting hit by MK's Shuttle loop is just staying away from him and when he uses it thats when I go in for one of my attacks.
For me its hard to approach MK with Lucario because of his fast attacks so I'd just stay back and use my Aura Ball then when he takes enough damage thats when I go in for the kill.
But thats only on 1 on 1 battles.

 

[tedward2000]

Also Kirby's Sword attack when close.

I could be reading this wrong, but I'm taking it as "Lucario has a hard time when Kirby uses his UpB a lot close range".

Spammy Kirbys make me sad.
-t2

 

[WakerofWinds]

This may just be really dumb but would it be possible to reverse DT to mix it up a bit?

 

[iRJi]

This may just be really dumb but would it be possible to reverse DT to mix it up a bit?

Remove DT from any thought process. It will benefit you =].

 

[ckm]

RoyR once told me that Lee Martin says the Marth matchup is completely in Lucario's favor if you know what you're doing. I don't know if he actually said this, but I guess Lee Martin knows something special, lol.

Too bad he gets wrecked by Olimars, just like the rest of us. <_<

I dunno... Lee won their match (they may have played more than once, but im referring to the one on youtube), but he was pretty much getting his *** handed to him the entire time and roy had some pretty unfortunate suicides in both matches.

Don't get me wrong--Lee is my hero. But it really looked like a rough matchup when they played.

Is there new video of him playing now? I havent seen him fight an olimar player...

 

[RT]

After playing a ton of friendlies with RoyR yesterday, I can kind of see what Lee is talking about. The trouble is just getting past Marth's aerials, especially fair, and know when to shield tipper fsmashes. Getting past these two things constitute about 75% of the matchup IMO.

 

[Aurasmash14]

sdo uh.. are we done here and move on to snake ftilt?

 

[WakerofWinds]

Remove DT from any thought process. It will benefit you =].

XD Thus the part of that being "really dumb"

 

[Aurasmash14]

ahem i will repeat. can we move on to snake ftilt naow?

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Perfect shield, grab, roll behind for mindgames. Outprioritize the first and second hit with 17% and 19% Aura Spheres respectively. Try to keep control of the center of the stage.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Perfect shield, grab, roll behind for mindgames. Outprioritize the first and second hit with 17% and 19% Aura Spheres respectively. Try to keep control of the center of the stage.

uhh, not exactly the correct format but thats good info.

 

[phi1ny3]

Let's do snake ftilt, and include the mixups (jab for the sake of knowing whether it outranges fair or not).

 

[Jin Kazama]

Oh god, I hate the move. I just shield both hits and roll back, out of his range :/.
Then I go my way to throw more Aura Spheres.
Sorry, I'm not much of a help lmao.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Ok then. snake ftilt it is.


P.S i really need to update -_-..

the lazy virus is too powerful...

 

[Gregory2590]

Ftilt...Well here's some methods I thought of but haven't tested.

1.Shield both hits and counter with dtilt
2.Shield both hits and use a turn around up tilt

I doubt these work but eh.

 

[phi1ny3]

Oh yeah, since ftilt is kinda tricky to use against a good opponent who knows their frames, they are going to try to make it a predicting game. DO NOT USE FSMASH or ftilt when a snake is shielding or far away from the attack, it gets eaten. Remember to use the fear of juggling against them, and pepper snake with light quick attacks and make as much mixing as possible, one read isn't worth the nasty damage it does.

 

[iRJi]

Ftilt is still nasty regardless lol. Its safe on block o_o

 

[Aurasmash14]

Not to mention it shuts us down a lot....

 

[culexus・wau]

I forget,

Is there inescapable options snake has if ftilt1 trips us?

 

[phi1ny3]

Most of the time, no, because you can DI away, but I think a grab is possible.
Oh yeah, if they overextend and do ftilt2, your chances at punishing are much higher.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What about this Lucario shield grabbing the hit box stuff people have been talking about?

 

[Nubsta5]

Whatever you do, don't try to quick-fair Snake as an OoS punish to f-tilt. You'll just eat a jab to another f-tilt. I've done it too many times to count .

 

[phi1ny3]

Both hits have their strengths and weaknesses, but the first ftilt will be for spacing especially if you're on the ground, and second ftilt will be if you're in the air sometimes because of that arc it has. He will also rarely use it alone, he'll often mix jab and grab in as well.

 

[Aurasmash14]

did you have to reawaken this thread phi1?

zombies walk the earth because of you and your SCIENCE!