The 'How to deal with specific enemy moves' thread. Discussion#6: Diddy's Bananas

[KY_Des]

Not much you can do about tornado. Pit as an unusually large shield. Just shield it and punish, it's the easiest way to deal with it. Charged arrow works, but it's far too slow to depend on. Mirror Shield is also an option, but that's better for scaring MK at the ledge than actually dealing with tornado. Jus shield it and punish. As long as you punish it, you have time for your shield to recover and you can keep doing it.

As for G&W bair, I honestly have no idea. You can't shield grab it, period. The hitboxes last too long and Pit's grab is too slow. Nair can work, but it's not reliable. You have to do nair from under G&W. If you're under him while he's doing bair, he's prolly not a good G&W. Honestly, I shield and then roll back. You can avoid the move, but you can't punish it this way.

Pit probably has no way to counter or even punish this move. That's why the Pit vs G&W matchup is a 70:30 in the first place.

Also...

Run. He can't hit you if you're running.

QFT

 

[teh_pwns_the]

G&W's bair you jsut have to take it and die a little inside

other alternatives are to get above it or roll behind it, watch out though because , it has little lag and either of the two options i mentioned leave you open afterwards, theres not much else you can do in my experience, im just spitballing here but would a wingdash cancel it out and then maybe perhaps offer room for punishment?

 

[KY_Des]

^ Wingdash wont cancel it. It might push it away enough to actually punish it tho. I'll try experimenting with it some and see what I can get.

G&W's bair you just have to take it and die a little inside

Lmao also QFT

 

[Phaigne]

I've actually found shield grabbing to be effective if the G&W is dumb enough to space improperly, but don't expect that from a pro. Other than that, get the hell out of his way.

 

[Seiya7]

hm....for the his Bair i find that its best to not try to punish it directly i played Hylian last weekend and i found that doing a Fair as GnW is about to land if timed correctly will miss the turtle and actually hit GnW it seemed to work kind of well also good spacing helps a lot

edit for suggestion of next move:
i hate marths Blade Dance thingy it should be discussed next

 

[Tenki]

Pardon me if this is repetitive, but I only read the last 5-6 posts or so. Can Pit counter B-air with anything it if he SDI's up/towards GAW?

 

[LoveChrist]

What does angel ring do against his EVIL Turtle?

 

[arm]

What does angel ring do against his EVIL Turtle?

Nada. AR has low priority as is, and teh tertul has very high priority. I wonder if the wind push would have any luck...? Spacing would need to be just right, and at that distance, GaW wouldnt try a turtle...

 

[Nikenick]

I can't test anything since my Wii is broken, but maybe ftilt will work?

 

[KY_Des]

I can't test anything since my Wii is broken, but maybe ftilt will work?

Nope, too slow. It would work if you predicted it 3 days before it happened, but ftilt is to slow to counter the bair on reaction.

Seiya's idea with fair sounds pretty legit. Wont work all the time but it's definitely better than nothing.

 

[DominusHaven]

For the most part against F-air's I would pretty much reccomend spacing with F-air's, maybe trying to go over him and come down with a D-air if you can, try and stay away from it for the most part, move away and come in with a attack and punish when it is over, I would reccomend blocking and punishing but the B-air has too many hits and pretty much leaves no weakness by the time it is finished however..

 

[Tenki]

Pardon me if this is repetitive, but I only read the last 5-6 posts or so. Can Pit counter B-air with anything it if he SDI's up/towards GAW?

Bamp. >__>

For the most part against F-air's I would pretty much reccomend spacing with F-air's, maybe trying to go over him and come down with a D-air if you can, try and stay away from it for the most part, move away and come in with a attack and punish when it is over, I would reccomend blocking and punishing but the B-air has too many hits and pretty much leaves no weakness by the time it is finished however..

Too many hits? Leaves no weaknesses?

..

Well, it depends how GAW does it.
If he does it while rising (ex: short hop), it will end before he hits the ground, and he can double jump.
If he lands during the hits, or after the hits end (but before the whole move ends), he has a special "landing" hit, with minor landing lag.

 

[Valuno]

If Pit SDIs up and into GaW he can Nair him out of it.
My main problem with the move is when I'm shielding and I get hit by it...

 

[S.D]

If you get caught in the bair SDI upwards to escape the last few hits and dair seems to work farily reliably.

 

[LoveChrist]

If timed right, I'm pretty sure a glide attack gets through.

 

[arm]

If timed right, I'm pretty sure a glide attack gets through.

kinda gotta glide first...

How many hit boxes does the turtle have if GnW landed right after taking it out?

 

[Sgt. Pit]

Angle your shield and wait until the move in done and shieldgrab, into whatever you would like(this may take some timing since GnW's bair has an odd timing)

 

[Nikenick]

New Discussion is up, as well as the summary from discussion #2. If I said anything wrong or forgot something, please tell me.

 

[Admiral Pit]

For Marth, one solution I may see is that you must Shield it and if the Marth does all 4 sequences of his annoying move, Counter it using practically any more to punish, whether it be grabbing him, Fsmashing him, or something around those parameters.
Be careful if the Marth doesnt perform all the sequences or somewhat "Slows Down" the Dancing blade sequences for a chance to break your Shield.

If you get caught in it though, if the Marth uses Down for his last sequence (involves the 5 stabs at the end), DI away, and be careful not to unsuspectingly lose your jumps between the attack.

 

[MrEh]

Pay attention to your shield. If it's depleted slightly, then you're probably going to be poked. If Marth tries to trick you by slowing down his attacks, then you can punish if you can read it fast enough.

If your shield doesn't get poked and Marth does all the hits, then use a Dtilt OoS. Yeahuz.

 

[teh_pwns_the]

ive seen sage do something where he takes the first two hits and then rolls behind while the marth finishes the other two moves, which needless to say leaves the marth open

 

[MrEh]

ive seen sage do something where he takes the first two hits and then rolls behind while the marth finishes the other two moves, which needless to say leaves the marth open

You can also spot dodge the last hit, provided it's not the down variant, and then counterattack accordingly.

Obviously, you shouldn't be able to roll or spot dodge out of a Dancing Blade if it's being used to punish. If it's being used to punish, then chances are it wasn't shielded.

 

[Kataefi]

SDI up and behind him on the first hit

Works better on floaties. I havn't tried it on Pit but it's the general consensus amongst characters. Otherwise simply DI up and away.

 

[S.D]

I believe you can shield grab between hits if your timing is good.

 

[Rogue Pit]

@SD. You can't your in hit stun.

SDI out. If they mess up which almost never happens take advantage and punish. The sword dance downward should never hit you. Only the side (all red) is dangerous. Just dont do anything punishable, dont roll predictably, smash disoriently, or land with lag.
Most of the times you just have to accept it and move on.

 

[KY_Des]

@SD. You can't your in hit stun.

SDI out. If they mess up which almost never happens take advantage and punish. The sword dance downward should never hit you. Only the side (all red) is dangerous. Just dont do anything punishable, dont roll predictably, smash disoriently, or land with lag.
Most of the times you just have to accept it and move on.

Up variant can be a problem too. If a Marth can tell that you are DI'ing up and away during the dancing blade, he'll hit you with the up variant. In that situation, it'll normally tip and can kill you if you don't DI it properly.

If you're able to shield it, shield grab the 3rd hit. Works every time.

 

[Seiya7]

a marth main told me that at high percentages i shouldnt try to DI out of it because the Up and Side variants will tipper of course causing greater knockback and possible death

just something to keep in mind

 

[TsNmi]

I have trouble with marth's SideB all the time. One of my friends is a marth main.

So the best thing to do is shield if i can, shield grab after 3rd hit, and if I dont shield in time then DI away?
I'm confused. I don't want to get tipped.

 

[KY_Des]

I have trouble with marth's SideB all the time. One of my friends is a marth main.

So the best thing to do is shield if i can, shield grab after 3rd hit, and if I dont shield in time then DI away?
I'm confused. I don't want to get tipped.

That's pretty much it. If you shield grab after the 3rd hit, you'll never get shield poked by the down variant. As for which way to DI... not exactly sure. Most ppl DI up and/or away, but that'll get you tipped if the Marth does the up variant. So just hope to God he doesn't tip you.... yea.

 

[Rogue Pit]

I at higher percents just DI in than up and towards after the last hit. Mostly it will be used a lot to punish and should be weak and survivable above 200%. If it isn't than your time has come. But at lower percents DI out if your away from him, and up and towards if your close to him.

 

[PenUmbra]

That's pretty much it. If you shield grab after the 3rd hit, you'll never get shield poked by the down variant. As for which way to DI... not exactly sure. Most ppl DI up and/or away, but that'll get you tipped if the Marth does the up variant. So just hope to God he doesn't tip you.... yea.

The fourth hit on all variations is the longest in execution. If the Marth likes to wait a little bit by stalling the blade to poke, you can shield drop F-smash. This is good for damage racking at low percents, and killing at high percents. If you shield it, angle your shield towards Marth, and then punish.

I haven't tried WoI out of shield. Somebody should and see how effective it is.

 

[Nikenick]

We need a new discussion, how about Samus' Zair or maybe take it to the next level and discuss things like Olimar's ground game? I didn't had any suggestions yet, so I'm open for anything.

 

[KY_Des]

The fourth hit on all variations is the longest in execution. If the Marth likes to wait a little bit by stalling the blade to poke, you can shield drop F-smash. This is good for damage racking at low percents, and killing at high percents. If you shield it, angle your shield towards Marth, and then punish.

I haven't tried WoI out of shield. Somebody should and see how effective it is.

If you keep ur shield out you'll normally get shield poked by the down variant, that's why I shield grab the 3rd hit. If you grab him, you don't have to worry about getting shield poked. You also won't be able to fsmash inbetween hits if he doesn't stall, in which case again, shield grabbing him would be the best solution. Rogue Pit made a valid point on where to DI when actually hit by the move, so I'll be trying that out to see how it works.

 

[yummynbeefy]

samus zair would be a good one

 

[Admiral Pit]

I'll vote for Samus Z-air unless someone gots a better one.

 

[Hayang]

Olimar's grabs. That is more critical than a lot of things.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Yea, I'll actually vote for the Olimar grab first before the Samus Z-air. Ive been fighting Olimars lately now, and have trouble getting to em without getting grabbed or thinking about it.

 

[Rogue Pit]

Samus' zair isnt a big deal. The only way to not get grabbed by olimar is predicting correctly, pressuringly punishments, or grab him first. All in all your still disadvantaged.

 

[Nikenick]

I think it's better to discuss his ground game then just his grabs, since you can easily say: 'Just don't get grabbed' if we'd just discuss grabs.
New Discussion is up!

 

[KY_Des]

Olimar's grab... Don't get grabbed XD

If Olimar starts running away, DON'T chases him lol.