the government says "**** you"

[saviorslegacy]

Link to original post: [drupal=4190]the government says "**** you"[/drupal]



A simple google search sums this up: http://www.google.com/search?q=mili...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

What you are hearing is true. I ship to boot in May and have DEP meetings every week. The recruiting office has yet to be paid it's 2011 budget because the Navy has yet to be paid its 2011 budget. My friends who are in have been warned that they will be getting less pay this week. I have been warned that the every boot camp might be shutting down because our military is going offline. In the military you get paid twice a month, every other week. This coming paycheck will be half. Military personal don't make much to begin with, now they will be making way below minimum. That means that a lot of America's little kids will be going hungry. The following week will be 100% without pay for every branch.
This means that Obama's body guards (who are Marines) will get no pay.

I have already called the Congressmen representing Ohio and relayed my concerns, I ask that you all do the same.


What is the problem?
Simple really, Congress is being an ***. They are arguing over budget cuts for 2011. They have been arguing since 2010. Here it is May and all of the money not spent in 2010 has been weened to last us till today. Today that money stops. Members of Congress are trying to propose a new budget (and in turn get a good rep) to save America some money and pay off our debt. One problem, they are not doing it quick enough. I was informed by a secretary of Rob Portman (an Ohio congressman) that Congress will be working over the weekend to decide a budget. If one is not decided by today however, America will be flying on no money.




"If *pro* and *con* are opposites then wouldn't the opposite of *progress* be *congress*?"

 

[Teran]

The US is doing cuts in the military?

WHAT?

That like, goes against everything the country stands for lol. Well they'd better start pulling out of occupied territories soon because an underpaid and underfunded military is going to get creamed by militia.

Silly silly Obama.

 

[saviorslegacy]

The US is doing cuts in the military?

WHAT?

That like, goes against everything the country stands for lol. Well they'd better start pulling out of occupied territories soon because an underpaid and underfunded military is going to get creamed by militia.

Silly silly Obama.

lololol, soldiers will fight if endangered. Militia in other counties consist of AK's (a poor weapon of choice except at close ranges) and untrained guerrilla fighters. While deadly in a jungle setting, it is nothing to really worry about in an urban or desert setting. The biggest threat are IED's (Improvised Explosive Devices). Nah, what will happen is our troops will just refuse to patrol or maintain order and more than likely riots will start and the troops will pull back into one centralized location for evac.

The only real problem that I see is without militia law (which sucks) the oil dictators could end up fighting which will cause a gas crisis in Europe and Asia (America gets like 94% of it oil from Venezuela). That and if we pull our small army out of South Korea, North Korea with its shifting power could decide to declare war on South Korea.
Also, without the Navy patrolling the oceans we could see an increase in pirates. In other words, prices on foreign goods will rise.

 

[Teran]

lololol, soldiers will fight if endangered. Militia in other counties consist of AK's (a poor weapon of choice except at close ranges) and untrained guerrilla fighters. While deadly in a jungle setting, it is nothing to really worry about in an urban or desert setting.

Yes it is. One of the biggest factors in combat comes from morale and motivation. Defending side always has the resistance motivation edge over occupiers. If the soldiers get demoralised and feel shafted by their own side, they won't have as strong a will to continue, whereas the militia will at least pick off a couple more soldiers. It isn't about winning or losing more than soldiers being killed, that isn't something you want, even if you're not going to lose the overall fight.

Also, guerillas and militia know the terrain much better, and are also much better at withstanding the climate of the area. Not only that, but they're constantly mobile. Just because they only have AK47s and crude explosives, does not make them not a threat. Being all LOLOLOL is what made America lose to Vietcong even after carpet bombing the country into oblivion.

Bleh whatever

The biggest threat are IED's (Improvised Explosive Devices). Nah, what will happen is our troops will just refuse to patrol or maintain order and more than likely riots will start and the troops will pull back into one centralized location for evac.

Yes that is a possibility, which will pretty much mean they lose because they stop patrolling and all the invasion and occupation would mean nothing because the soldiers will no longer give a **** and the volatile area will erupt, which is why cutting military funding at such a time is the most ******** thing a government can do.

The only real problem that I see is without militia law (which sucks) the oil dictators could end up fighting again (Desert Storm) which will cause a gas crisis in Europe and Asia

That will likely not happen. Oil dictators were our creation, ****ing up the Middle East has been a work in progress since the 1950s. Still, **** if we let someone who we don't approve of step up and take control of oil states. That's OUR black gold.

(America gets like 94% of it oil from Venezuela). That and if we pull our small army out of South Korea the North Korea with its shifting power could decide to declare war on South Korea.
Also, without the Navy patrolling the oceans we could see an increase in pirates. In other words, prices on foreign goods will rise.

I'm not sure any country really has the gall to start a major war these days. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are not major wars, since crippling armies like that isn't really work.

Still, you're definitely right about the pirates and stuff, sounds like Somalia will be having a party when it happens.

 

[Luxor]

(America gets like 94% of it oil from Venezuela)

You don't say? It makes sense, but at the same time doesn't seem quite right lol. Really?

 

[saviorslegacy]

Yes it is. One of the biggest factors in combat comes from morale and motivation. Defending side always has the resistance motivation edge over occupiers. If the soldiers get demoralised and feel shafted by their own side, they won't have as strong a will to continue, whereas the militia will at least pick off a couple more soldiers. It isn't about winning or losing more than soldiers being killed, that isn't something you want, even if you're not going to lose the overall fight.

Also, guerillas and militia know the terrain much better, and are also much better at withstanding the climate of the area. Not only that, but they're constantly mobile. Just because they only have AK47s and crude explosives, does not make them not a threat. Being all LOLOLOL is what made America lose to Vietcong even after carpet bombing the country into oblivion.

Bleh whatever

A couple of things that you are over looking in your comparison to the Vietcong is....
#1 America let politicians run the war instead of the military leaders. We spent most of our time scouting out locations and attacking them only to pull back out. My best friends uncle served through the entire war as a foot soldier. He said that there was one town that they invaded 3 times. "What a waste of life, both on soldiers and civilians."
The reason why the Army is recruiting so many people is so that we can hold many positions.
Also, in the jungle there was a lot more booby traps and the thick foliage allowed the enemy to get really close to our soldier where they would attack and then retreat. Since they knew the terrain and was accustomed to it they would usually escape.

I completely agree, but we are the ones on the defensive usually, which gives us an advantage especially with our advanced ways of communication. If something goes down, multiple patrols are ready to intercept so whoever defied mighty America gets killed.

But as you pointed out, the troops morale will be devastated. I see them holding up in one area and waiting for evac as a real possibility.


SO yeah, I see what you are saying but I don't see America getting destroyed. I just see us imitating the French.

That will likely not happen. Oil dictators were our creation, ****ing up the Middle East has been a work in progress since the 1950s. Still, **** if we let someone who we don't approve of step up and take control of oil states. That's OUR black gold.

They became dictators because they have lots of money. They have lots of money because of Europe buying it. We do not buy from them.
The Middle East was pretty quite until Russia decided to storm in. America gave them weapons and taught them how to fight so that they could defend themselves. In the end they won and the Russians ran back with their tails between their legs. It was from that point on that power became a major issue because there was now an Army in the Middle East who became the Army of the highest bidder. Long story short, Kuwait was invaded and asked for help. That is how the Gulf War came about. My father was awarded a medal from Kuwait's government for his service (bragging rights). If we leave right now this will happen again.

I'm not sure any country really has the gall to start a major war these days. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are not major wars, since crippling armies like that isn't really work.

Still, you're definitely right about the pirates and stuff, sounds like Somalia will be having a party when it happens.

Yeah but North Korea is stupid. Look at what happened last year! They are ballsy little motha ****ers. If we pull out they will be like "UMERWICA IZ GUNE!!!!!!! ATTWACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Or they could just finally acknowledge that they have the worst piece of land ever and not do anything.

This image should sum up Somalia after the military crashes (if they crash). http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/2213422.jpg

You don't say? It makes sense, but at the same time doesn't seem quite right lol. Really?

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html
According to my economics teacher we get like nothing from the Middle East. It is easier to ship from Venezuela than the Middle East. It is also a higher grade of oil.

 

[Laem]

Teran sees clearly.

 

[Falconv1.0]

The US is doing cuts in the military?

WHAT?

That like, goes against everything the country stands for lol. Well they'd better start pulling out of occupied territories soon because an underpaid and underfunded military is going to get creamed by militia.

Silly silly Obama.

Nah, it makes sense, he's funding the side that'll vote for him, the military overwhelmingly votes republican.

I didn't actually look at the op but if he's talking about the 'shutdown', basically everyone has gotten their 2 weeks worth of pay, no one's going without pay quite yet but if it 'lasts long enough', then they will.

I really don't even have any ****ing need for this goddamn info seeing how people are going to just forget this **** happened as soon as it ends.

 

[Deleted member]

Solution to all problems for the United States:
1. Develop insane bio-weapon
2. Release said bio-weapon on Middle East
3. Wait for region to be devoid of life
4. Proceed to take all oil
5. Profit

Cruel, yet effective for our oil dependence.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Solution to all problems for the United States:
1. Develop insane bio-weapon
2. Release said bio-weapon on Middle East
3. Wait for region to be devoid of life
4. Proceed to take all oil
5. Profit

Cruel, yet effective for our oil dependence.

Yeah I'm sure that couldn't bite us in the ***.

 

[Life]

Our main oil suppliers are Canada and Mexico. Then SA and Venezuela.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Nah, it makes sense, he's funding the side that'll vote for him, the military overwhelmingly votes republican.

I didn't actually look at the op but if he's talking about the 'shutdown', basically everyone has gotten their 2 weeks worth of pay, no one's going without pay quite yet but if it 'lasts long enough', then they will.

I really don't even have any ****ing need for this goddamn info seeing how people are going to just forget this **** happened as soon as it ends.

Screw republican and democrat.... what happened to "American"?

This coming pay check is half pay. The one following is 0. Even if it is fixed our Government will still be paying our soldiers half.

People who have never been in the military will forget. I doubt the actual military or retired military will ever forget. When you swear in, process and go through boot there is a lot put onto commitment and living to serve others and your nation. This is our nation's government spitting in our military's face. We have gone without pay before, but only in times of crisis. This is not a time of crisis.

Solution to all problems for the United States:
1. Develop insane bio-weapon
2. Release said bio-weapon on Middle East
3. Wait for region to be devoid of life
4. Proceed to take all oil
5. Profit

Cruel, yet effective for our oil dependence.

I guess America is more oil dependent than Europe (yes I know they ride bikes and **** but that is because they are all squeezed together), Australia, China, Canada, Russia or any other non-third world country.
And BTW, we have insane bio-weapons, they are just illegal. To bad Saddam didn't get that memo.

 

[El Nino]

There won't be a government shutdown. They came to an agreement: http://www.npr.org/2011/04/09/135228492/deal-reached-to-avert-government-shutdown

RE: oil politics, I'm not touching that topic with a ten foot pole.

Solution to all problems for the United States:
1. Develop insane bio-weapon
2. Release said bio-weapon on Middle East
3. Wait for region to be devoid of life
4. Proceed to take all oil
5. Profit

That would only work if it involves zombies and laser cats.

And BTW, we have insane bio-weapons, they are just illegal.

They are illegal because biological agents are highly unpredictable. Chemical weapons can't mutate, but biological ones can. You cannot guarantee the outcome, and the outcome might be a supervirus that kills everyone on the planet.

 

[Ripple]

They are illegal because biological agents are highly unpredictable. Chemical weapons can't mutate, but biological ones can. You cannot guarantee the outcome, and the outcome might be a supervirus that kills everyone on the planet.

OR SUPERHUMANS!

**** it, making a bio-weapon

 

[Teran]

Solution to all problems for the United States:
1. Develop insane bio-weapon
2. Release said bio-weapon on Middle East
3. Wait for region to be devoid of life
4. Proceed to take all oil
5. Profit

Cruel, yet effective for our oil dependence.

Bioweapons are illegal.

Then again the good thing about being part of the power countries is not having to listen to the UN or NATO or whatever pathetic fake organisations are out there.

 

[El Nino]

Then again the good thing about being part of the power countries is not having to listen to the UN or NATO or whatever pathetic fake organisations are out there.

Yes, but who will save us from our own stupidity?

 

[Teran]

We'll be fine.

Besides losing the grip on power is natural, it happened to every great power out there and eventually power will shift again.

We just say it's bad cos it won't be with us lol.

Oh well it was fun while it lasted.

 

[Fuelbi]

We'll be fine.

Besides losing the grip on power is natural, it happened to every great power out there and eventually power will shift again.

We just say it's bad cos it won't be with us lol.

Oh well it was fun while it lasted.

Difference is that most civilizations had it for a time range of 500-1000 years... we've (talking about the US) only had it for 300 ;__;

EDIT: Actually scratch that. Nobody really taking them seriously till WWI. So that's been like what? 200 years?

 

[Browny]

an underpaid and underfunded military is going to get creamed by militia.

Pretty sure the militia/rebels/guerillas etc. are getting slaughtered in libya without the USA's help... At least for the first few weeks, the military had every possible advantage >_<

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, morale's important, but now that the military is significantly better equipped than the citizens (as opposed to say, 1776) it doesn't matter near as much. I don't care how pumped you are, a militia without air support is totally screwed in this day and age.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Difference is that most civilizations had it for a time range of 500-1000 years... we've (talking about the US) only had it for 300 ;__;

EDIT: Actually scratch that. Nobody really taking them seriously till WWI. So that's been like what? 200 years?

Actually no one took us seriously until after WW2. Hitler said that America was a backwards country. It wasn't until the world was decimated and America the victor that we actually became a power. The Cold War just made us technologically more advanced than everyone else so on top of having a amazing economy, we were also ways ahead of everyone (cept for Russia.... lol).

I mean, morale's important, but now that the military is significantly better equipped than the citizens (as opposed to say, 1776) it doesn't matter near as much. I don't care how pumped you are, a militia without air support is totally screwed in this day and age.

Well yeah. The last time a militia was useful was in the 1940's. After that helicopters and light weight fully automatic rifles came about. With the improvement in small arms one man could fight like many men. So it came down to how well was that one man trained and how well can he think. Militias are not trained very well or just plain not trained.

 

[Fuelbi]

Actually no one took us seriously until after WW2. Hitler said that America was a backwards country. It wasn't until the world was decimated and America the victor that we actually became a power. The Cold War just made us technologically more advanced than everyone else so on top of having a amazing economy, we were also ways ahead of everyone (cept for Russia.... lol).

All those months in WH were lieeeeeeeeees ;_;

 

[Teran]

Yeah basically all of Europe blew each other to pieces and America jumped in at the end, claimed victory after not doing really anything, and reaped the rewards of a ruined world.

Oh well.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Pretty sure the militia/rebels/guerillas etc. are getting slaughtered in libya without the USA's help... At least for the first few weeks, the military had every possible advantage >_<

Difference is in Teran's example, the rebels are fighting a group coming into their homeland and are on defense. In Libya, it's a bunch of ******* youth who don't know what the **** they're doing.

Also, Saviors, we lost that war because no one understood what the **** they were doing, period. Also, sorry but uh, I've never heard of a war where politicians weren't involved in some form They hated the **** out of china, and we never used that to turn them on China because we're stuuuupiiiiid. When we started, our Generals wanted a war of attrition, they thought we'd outlast them. Why's that?

BECAUSE WE'RE STUUUUUPIIIIIIIIIID.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

the government says "**** you"

Ok, and this is news ... how?

Anyways, on topic if a government shut down where to occur would that include the police?

 

[saviorslegacy]

Also, Saviors, we lost that war because no one understood what the **** they were doing, period. Also, sorry but uh, I've never heard of a war where politicians weren't involved in some form They hated the **** out of china, and we never used that to turn them on China because we're stuuuupiiiiid. When we started, our Generals wanted a war of attrition, they thought we'd outlast them. Why's that?

BECAUSE WE'RE STUUUUUPIIIIIIIIIID.

It was the extent of political control that was in Vietnam. That was the problem. Less military and more DC.

Anyways, on topic if a government shut down where to occur would that include the police?

You know I asked a policeman yesterday (friend of my father) and he said sort of. There is money set back to keep them running but all that is is a speed bump. After a few months the police department would shut down. Also, when they reach that speed bump highway patrolmen and part of the sheriff's office would have leave without pay. The rest would serve as sort of an anti-riot. Basically they're there to keep the country from erupting into mass chaos.
In other words, at that point you are responsible for your own safety. This is one reason why we should be allowed to keep our guns.

 

[Falconv1.0]

The only reason were went there was because of political bull****, so yeah it's not like we were set for super glorious victory either way.

 

[saviorslegacy]

The only reason were went there was because of political bull****, so yeah it's not like we were set for super glorious victory either way.

Pretty much. Sometimes I wonder if the Government thinks. They waste soooooo much money and lives.

 

[Nicknyte]

Government is cool, bro. If it collapses, I am going to become a hunter, and trap bears and quails out here in arizona. Since it is a future 2011 collapse, I am going to stock up on Coke, and drink and trap till I die of not worrying what the government does. :D

 

[Teran]

The government does stupid **** because they know that the public won't actually band together and legitimately overthrow them.

Ever.

Once you're in you can just coast along and do whatever the hell you want.

 

[Jonkku]

A simple google search sums this up: http://www.google.com/search?q=mili...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

What I got from that is that U.S. troops' payment is either going to get cut partially or completely? (Though one link straight out said it's not gonna happen)

Yes, so what? Where's the "**** you"?


Military service is enforced in here and AFAIK nobody gets paid a thing.

 

[Teran]

Yeah but unlike Finland, the American military actually does stuff.

 

[Fuelbi]

Yeah basically all of Europe blew each other to pieces and America jumped in at the end, claimed victory after not doing really anything, and reaped the rewards of a ruined world.

Oh well.

God damn the textbooks here really do mislead you. In it they make it sound how the gringos got in near the beginning and make them look like heroes who came in and tore apart each nation they came across with apart and make it look even prettier with charts with numbers that show just how many Americans died in comparison to other countries.

And I wondered where all the gringos got their nationalism from :/

 

[ndayday]

Honestly Fuelbi, you must not pay very good attention, or your school doesn't follow the mandated curriculum.

 

[Fuelbi]

Well I dunno that's what's in the textbooks and I guess I must pay attention to maintain the A I have in that class

 

[Falconv1.0]

Actually no one took us seriously until after WW2. Hitler said that America was a backwards country. It wasn't until the world was decimated and America the victor that we actually became a power. The Cold War just made us technologically more advanced than everyone else so on top of having a amazing economy, we were also ways ahead of everyone (cept for Russia.... lol).

Missed this post.

Uh, yeah, because the world was just ignoring us during the Spanish American War and WW1, right?

Sure.

 

[Arbuckle]

Yeah basically all of Europe blew each other to pieces and America jumped in at the end, claimed victory after not doing really anything, and reaped the rewards of a ruined world.

Oh well.

I didn't realize officially being in WWII for 4 of the 6 years was jumping in at the end. Also, not a whole lot happened in '39-40, besides the occupation of France and the beginning of the war in North Africa.

 

[saviorslegacy]

What I got from that is that U.S. troops' payment is either going to get cut partially or completely? (Though one link straight out said it's not gonna happen)

Yes, so what? Where's the "**** you"?


Military service is enforced in here and AFAIK nobody gets paid a thing.

You searched after I posted this. As of around noon yesterday if nothing would have been done our troops would have gone without pay. As of right now this mess has been postponed to Thursday.

Missed this post.

Uh, yeah, because the world was just ignoring us during the Spanish American War and WW1, right?

Sure.

We were never considered that strong. We were more or less always trying to get stronger but never succeeding due to so many set backs and our expansion out west. After the Civil War there was a big scare that Britain (pretty much the strongest country back then) would invade the east coast. lol America was so poor up to WW1 that we couldn't even afford modern rifles. Some soldiers out west were using muzzle loading smooth bore muskets to fight with. After WW1 we weren't really doing all that great and then we went into a depression! The 1950's was America's "Golden Era" because it was the first time that we weren't struggling.

Yeah basically all of Europe blew each other to pieces and America jumped in at the end, claimed victory after not doing really anything, and reaped the rewards of a ruined world.

Oh well.

We didn't jump in and claim victory. We were asked to help and we said no. It wasn't until Pearl Harbor that we got involved. Even when we went over there we would have lost if it wasn't for Russia forcing the Nazi's to split their forces.
Also, we done quite a bit in Europe considering the amount of ground forces that we had.

WW2 was the last honorable war that America fought, stop making it look bad.
Just because we ****ed up in every war after that does not mean that we have always been ****ed up.

Also, you are overlooking that we pretty much dominated the Pacific (Navy... hooyah) with slight aid from Australia.

 

[El Nino]

The government does stupid **** because they know that the public won't actually band together and legitimately overthrow them.

Ever.

Once you're in you can just coast along and do whatever the hell you want.

Unless you're Mubarak or Ben Ali.

WW2 was the last honorable war that America fought, stop making it look bad.

There are no honorable wars. There may be honorable people, but there are no honorable wars. The way WWII ended set the stage for everything that came after, from the nuclear arms race to the Cold War to the wars via proxy fought in Asia and Latin/South America. Regardless of the character of the people who step up to the front lines, whether they are armed guerrillas defending against a foreign invasion, or ******* youth willing to die for their freedom from a dictatorship that tortures and executes all those who dissent--regardless of all of that, wars are fought for politics. The people in DC, in Moscow, in Beijing--the suits and the pen-pushers leeching public funds--those people determine the bottom line. The military serves the political state, not the other way around. And we are all expendable when held up beside their goals.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Honorable wars?

Honorable wars?

Wow, Savior. I'm just going to say that you're lucky that you never had to fight in a war on a scale comparable to WWII, and I will leave it at that.

Edit: As for cutting funds? I don't agree with that.

Smooth Criminal