the government says "**** you"

[§witch]

EDIT: Actually scratch that. Nobody really taking them seriously till WWI. So that's been like what? 200 years?

Yeah, WWI ended in 1811.

 

[saviorslegacy]

There are no honorable wars. There may be honorable people, but there are no honorable wars. The way WWII ended set the stage for everything that came after, from the nuclear arms race to the Cold War to the wars via proxy fought in Asia and Latin/South America. Regardless of the character of the people who step up to the front lines, whether they are armed guerrillas defending against a foreign invasion, or ******* youth willing to die for their freedom from a dictatorship that tortures and executes all those who dissent--regardless of all of that, wars are fought for politics. The people in DC, in Moscow, in Beijing--the suits and the pen-pushers leeching public funds--those people determine the bottom line. The military serves the political state, not the other way around. And we are all expendable when held up beside their goals.

When I said honorable war I am talking about the cause to go to war and the way it was carried out. In WW2 we tried to do everything as quick and clean as possible and the reason as why we done it was for the protection of our nation and the protection of others and we stayed true to those morals. Every war or conflict following IMO was either entered on poor judgment or was conducted poorly.

Honorable wars?

Honorable wars?

Wow, Savior. I'm just going to say that you're lucky that you never had to fight in a war on a scale comparable to WWII, and I will leave it at that.

"Honorable" is defined from the word "honor".
def- "honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions" It can also mean "to hold in honor or high respect" aka, a respectable war based on how we conducted ourselves in it and after (rebuilding Europe and other disseminated parts of the world).

As to why do you say that I am lucky to not fight in a war of that scale? During my tour in the Navy I am going to serve an 8 month tour as a field medic for the Marine Corps. in harms way. Large scale or not, I will still serve my country. I chose medicine because I do not wish to kill. It is against my morals and religion to take a life... I wish to save. So I will try and save the brave....
But I will kill if I have to. I just would want it to be either quick and painless, or slow and torturous..... depending on the circumstances.

Do not insult me when it comes to serving our nation.

Yeah, WWI ended in 1811.

lol, win

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I never insulted you, Savior. I have a lot of respect for people that serve.

Every war or conflict following IMO was either entered on poor judgment or was conducted poorly.

It's ironic that you say that, and yet you're going to the service to participate in what is considered (by some, especially the civilians) to be a very unpopular series of military conflicts. I'm sure you're well aware of that fact, and that's fine, I'm sure you have some hardlined (and hardboiled) reason as to why you would wanna go over there and do what the rest of you guys do. Sure, terrorists need to pay for what they did! Sure, people are being oppressed! Sure, people need to govern themselves better! Sure, we need the political clout! We need all of that, right? Pretty much insert "reason z" here, more or less. I can respect any of that. I really can.

It is against my morals and religion to take a life... I wish to save. So I will try and save the brave....
But I will kill if I have to. I just would want it to be either quick and painless, or slow and torturous..... depending on the circumstances.

This disgusts me more than anything, and I find this to be more insulting than anything that could have been said here about your serving our country. Don't preach to people about being "globally-minded" when it comes to preserving the life of others you hypocrite. Especially when you say stuff like that.

As for what I said about WWII? I'm sure you talked to Grandpa or whatever but I don't think you quite understand just what the **** they went through. Nobody can, because a conflict that massive hasn't been seen for the better half of a several decades. People were drafted, sometimes forcefully removed from their homes because they were fit for duty; thousands were put up against thousands; whole regiments were blown to Kingdom Come; cities were leveled; civilians were even considered an afterthought in some cases. Modern day conflict is NOTHING compared to even ONE of the many theaters in WWII.

I want you to imagine what it would be like down there on the beach in '44, Savior. Doing your duty as a medic. I bet you'd wet your pants and you'd toss all of that poesy crap out the window.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I love you, Smooth Criminal.

 

[saviorslegacy]

It's ironic that you say that, and yet you're going to the service to participate in what is considered (by some, especially the civilians) to be a very unpopular series of military conflicts. I'm sure you're well aware of that fact, and that's fine, I'm sure you have some hardlined (and hardboiled) reason as to why you would wanna go over there and do what the rest of you guys do. Sure, terrorists need to pay for what they did! Sure, people are being oppressed! Sure, people need to govern themselves better! Sure, we need the political clout! We need all of that, right? Pretty much insert "reason z" here, more or less. I can respect any of that. I really can

I will never find a line of work that I will fully believe in. I do not support everything that has happened, but I do support the fact that the US being in the Middle East while is oppressing, it does provide stability to the region. That stability helps make the world go round even if there is a bad going on. The people aren't slaves and oil is reaching countries that need it. So I feel like that cause is justifiable.

This disgusts me more than anything, and I find this to be more insulting than anything that could have been said here about your serving our country. Don't preach to people about being "globally-minded" when it comes to preserving the life of others you hypocrite. Especially when you say stuff like that.

As for what I said about WWII? I'm sure you talked to Grandpa or whatever but I don't think you quite understand just what the **** they went through. Nobody can, because a conflict that massive hasn't been seen for the better half of a several decades. People were drafted, sometimes forcefully removed from their homes because they were fit for duty; thousands were put up against thousands; whole regiments were blown to Kingdom Come; cities were leveled; civilians were even considered an afterthought in some cases. Modern day conflict is NOTHING compared to even ONE of the many theaters in WWII.

I want you to imagine what it would be like down there on the beach in '44, Savior. Doing your duty as a medic. I bet you'd wet your pants and you'd toss all of that poesy crap out the window.

Smooth Criminal

I think we have two different situations going through our heads. If I have a gun and if ANYONE tries to shoot an ally if I can kill him before he kills them he is as good as dead. I will not have a gun though, so we are talking about a situation when my team gets decimated.
As for the slow and tortuous thing, I am referring to those like Hitler, Sadam or Josef Mengele. They should be forced to suffer because of all of the suffering that they have caused. Those men were without mercy.
"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy." Mathew 5:7
They had none, and shall receive none while on earth if it were up to me.


My grandpa who served just died this past October. I do imagine it, almost daily, to the point that I dream about it. I like to know where I came from. My family has fought in every war but this one. I am the oldest of 3 males in my family. I spend a large portion of my free time talking to veterans, reading war novels, history books, shooting old guns and watching war movies. WW2 is not as gruesome as the Civil War.
I would probably **** myself, but I would hope that I could keep going.



BTW, what would you do if you were in WW2? I think both of us would be freaked out same as everyone. No one can honestly say that they would be able to do it no problem because only people who have done it before can say that.

 

[El Nino]

When I said honorable war I am talking about the cause to go to war and the way it was carried out. In WW2 we tried to do everything as quick and clean as possible and the reason as why we done it was for the protection of our nation and the protection of others and we stayed true to those morals. Every war or conflict following IMO was either entered on poor judgment or was conducted poorly.

Well, here's another way of looking at it. Just because an enemy is less visible doesn't mean he isn't there. During the Cold War era and beyond, wars were fought by intelligence agencies. All of that information would be confidential, which makes the public distrustful of the government, and we are left to draw our own conclusions. That makes it hard to tell how much was gained and how much was lost because so much information is inaccessible.

Edit: Though some of those files may have been declassified by now. And it's likely that with the structure of the world today, the government is no longer able to engage in traditional warfare with the same clearcut objectives as those seen in the past.

I will never find a line of work that I will fully believe in.

I doubt very many of us ever do. Good luck in the service.

 

[Teran]

Unless you're Mubarak or Ben Ali.

Talking about the west.

Yeah, WWI ended in 1811.

I lol'd

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

(America gets like 94% of it oil from Venezuela).

K I don't really want to get into a debate with you but this is 100% incorrect, I don't know how you made it up but it isn't true at all.

 

[Sraigux]

Maybe it's a sign that uncle sam should pull out of iraq.

Then again, $663.8 billion isn't that much anyway.

 

[Falconv1.0]

K I don't really want to get into a debate with you but this is 100% incorrect, I don't know how you made it up but it isn't true at all.

I like how I'm so dejected with this **** I missed him saying that. How the **** is a country going to ship over even like, 50% of its oil to a single country? Do people just not understand how the oil market works on purpose or...? I mean all you have to do is google this ****, takes like 10 ****ing seconds.

 

[Teran]

Venezuela trades with the USA?

I thought Chavez was a Castro fanboy so Murrica was all like **** youuuuuu, aaaaand **** her toooooooo.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I just saw someone say that America won World War II and stopped reading this thread.

Because it's not like a sizable portion of the soldiers at D-Day were Canadian or anything.
It's not like the most powerful air force in the world was the Royal Canadian Air Force.
It's not like without Canada the allied forces would have lost WWII.

The reason America was "respected" after WWII is because they nuked Japan. Nobody was entirely sure that America didn't have more bombs. I'd be scared ****less of that kind of power if I were a leader, personally.

That out of the way, no country should be without a paid standing army. Just look at Canada right now. Our air force and navy are a shambles, the only thing we have going for us are some of the best trained snipers and infantry soldiers in the world.

Seriously, imo, America is right in military spending. They have a strong military and you'd have to be ****ing ******** to attack America head-on. America isn't fighting a war on their soil because any leader worth anything knows that any kind of actual assault will fail miserably.

*EDIT* Also, some misinformation seems to be floating around. America gets most of its oil from Canada.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I just saw someone say that America won World War II and stopped reading this thread.

Because it's not like a sizable portion of the soldiers at D-Day were Canadian or anything.
It's not like the most powerful air force in the world was the Royal Canadian Air Force.
It's not like without Canada the allied forces would have lost WWII.

The reason America was "respected" after WWII is because they nuked Japan. Nobody was entirely sure that America didn't have more bombs. I'd be scared ****less of that kind of power if I were a leader, personally.

That out of the way, no country should be without a paid standing army. Just look at Canada right now. Our air force and navy are a shambles, the only thing we have going for us are some of the best trained snipers and infantry soldiers in the world.

Seriously, imo, America is right in military spending. They have a strong military and you'd have to be ****ing ******** to attack America head-on. America isn't fighting a war on their soil because any leader worth anything knows that any kind of actual assault will fail miserably.

*EDIT* Also, some misinformation seems to be floating around. America gets most of its oil from Canada.

England helped too. The Allies
On that note, Mexico was also an ally in WW2... true story.
I am sorry that I forgot to mention the many worthy nations. Another nation that is forgotten a lot is China. But yeah, a lot of people fought in the war but the final two major victors were Russia and America. Russia won Europe by beating Germany down from the East and basically decimating Berlin and we won the Pacific via the atomic bomb.
But yeah, I for one respect Canada and if I was forced to live anywhere but America I would choose British Columbia.


I had a 3 hour DEP meeting today with the Navy where we talked financial stuff and many other things. Cool story, the Navy is stressed out right now trying to enforce a no fly zone over Libya. IDK why, but that is what we were told. lol
Anyways, the Government signed the military budget for 2011 on Friday according to the Chief. Now I am not sure if that is him being optimistic or if he is telling the truth. Personally I think it is the truth just because everyone in every branch is like super relaxed compared to Thursday of last week.


As for the oil thing. I done research and it didn't get me anywhere. My economics teacher is the one who said that we got most of our oil from Venezuela. Then again he is more right than me so he could have just been glorifying America.

 

[§witch]

England helped too. The Allies
On that note, Mexico was also an ally in WW2... true story.
I am sorry that I forgot to mention the many worthy nations. Another nation that is forgotten a lot is China. But yeah, a lot of people fought in the war but the final two winners were Russia and America. Russia won Europe by beating Germany down from the East and basically decimating Berlin and we won the Pacific via the atomic bomb.

The americans won the pacific because the americans were the only ones in the pacific.

 

[saviorslegacy]

The americans won the pacific because the americans were the only ones in the pacific.

**** you, you commented before I could fix my wording.

Yeah pretty much. There was actually a lot of arguing that America couldn't fight both fronts. They were right, if America didn't have its allies in Europe we would have lost, bad. Most of the brownie points goes to Russia though.

 

[Falconv1.0]

As for the oil thing. I done research and it didn't get me anywhere. My economics teacher is the one who said that we got most of our oil from Venezuela. Then again he is more right than me so he could have just been glorifying America.

We get about twice as much from Canada. Your economics teacher is a little ignorant.

 

[§witch]

And we give it to you dirt cheap. Then you gouge us on soft lumber. Diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicks

 

[El Nino]

On that note, Mexico was also an ally in WW2... true story.
I am sorry that I forgot to mention the many worthy nations. Another nation that is forgotten a lot is China.

Well, at least you know about Mexico and China. People at my high school had no clue. Kinda sad considering that China may have had the highest casualties. I get the impression that they were left out of the history books because they're Communist, and someone didn't want American students to empathize with them or even to understand the basic facts about the world.

Education in the U.S. is very inconsistent. It feels like there's a different curriculum in every school. We're not all taught the same things.

My economics teacher is the one who said that we got most of our oil from Venezuela. Then again he is more right than me so he could have just been glorifying America.

This might help: http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html

 

[Teran]

Wtf are North Americans chatting **** about being the significant fighters in WWII?

WWII was about Europe, and the country than won it was Russia. You have to look the whole thing. :/

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah, I know.

Europe defintely played the large part.

I just get really pissed off when someone talks about America winning WWII singlehandedly. Hell, American textbooks even say they won the War of 1812... a war started because America wanted to add Canada to the union. Yeah, last I checked we're still independent, curbstomped America in that war, and burned the White House to the ground.

Of course, because we're polite and all, we built you guys a new one. I'm fairly certain that the one that stands today is still that one.

*EDIT* I'm not saying America didn't help. There's no way to know how things would have gone on either front without America. But America didn't win the war, the Allies did.

 

[saviorslegacy]

And we give it to you dirt cheap. Then you gouge us on soft lumber. Diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicks

Dude the lumber companies **** my area daily. Just last month we noticed that they had illegally cut lumber on our property. It wasn't much but they took out some pretty good sized trees and left all of the little pieaces on the ground.

Well, at least you know about Mexico and China. People at my high school had no clue. Kinda sad considering that China may have had the highest casualties. I get the impression that they were left out of the history books because they're Communist, and someone didn't want American students to empathize with them or even to understand the basic facts about the world.

Education in the U.S. is very inconsistent. It feels like there's a different curriculum in every school. We're not all taught the same things.



This might help: http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html

Dude high school American history is udder bull ****. When they talk about The Civil War the books just say it was about slavery and leave it at that. There was soooooo much other **** that was going on.
That's why I tried to read extra on whatever I was taught.

Wtf are North Americans chatting **** about being the significant fighters in WWII?

WWII was about Europe, and the country than won it was Russia. You have to look the whole thing. :/

WW2 had a lot to do with Europe but saying it was about Europe is bull ****. Japan ***** Asia. They entered China and pretty much enslaved the population. Ever heard of the Flying Tigers? Also, the reason why Korea split was because of Japan invading them. Then Japan decided to take over the Philippines and every other freakin island in the Pacific. They even bombed Oregon to try and catch our forests on fire. Someone should have told them that that forest is a Northern RAIN FOREST. lol

And yeah I agree, Russia was the winner in Europe. To bad they decided to **** them after they killed the Nazis. I had a girl friend from Lithuanian. They hate Russia so much.
@sig

Yeah, I know.

Europe defintely played the large part.

I just get really pissed off when someone talks about America winning WWII singlehandedly. Hell, American textbooks even say they won the War of 1812... a war started because America wanted to add Canada to the union. Yeah, last I checked we're still independent, curbstomped America in that war, and burned the White House to the ground.

Of course, because we're polite and all, we built you guys a new one. I'm fairly certain that the one that stands today is still that one.

*EDIT* I'm not saying America didn't help. There's no way to know how things would have gone on either front without America. But America didn't win the war, the Allies did.

Dude the War of 1812 had a lot of stuff going on, you cannot just say that it had to deal with Canada. It had to do with Tecumeseh (I actually got to see this dudes peace pipe) and the rallied Native American tribes, it has to do with England and it has to do with people almost revolting do to the government getting to powerful (this was a big reason why we had the Civil War).
But yeah, our capital was burned... but our flag was still therrrrrrrrrrrre. Our fort defending Washington was never captured.... but it did fail at doing its job. I guess Great Britain's missiles weren't as effective as they thought they were. lol

 

[Nidtendofreak]

WWII Summery:

-France got pummeled due to their silly line defense that failed but had lots of resistance fighters screwing the Nazis over
-UK and it's colonies/close allies (Canada, Australia, India IIRC) basically held out on their own for a while. Canada in particular was helpful in keeping the UK alive for reason stated below. Not to say other European countries weren't involved with the fighting, or doing amazing things (Either Finland, Sweden, Norway, or Denmark managed to safely ship like, 98% of their Jews out of their country before the Nazis could get them. I feel bad that I don't remember which country. ;_; ), they simply didn't have as many troops.
-US didn't join right away, but FDR was sending ships and supplies to Canada disguised as other things, Canadians would change the names of the American ships and send them to the UK
-Russia didn't join until Germany was stupid enough to attack them. Once that happen, Russia had the troops required to singlehandedly win the war in Europe. If any country can argue having credit of winning the war, it's Russia. If the UK had fallen, Germany would have eventually attacked Russia.
-US didn't officially join until Pearl Harbor. They did not win the war themselves, but were very good at speeding up victory, and probably saving a lot of troops lives by nuking Japan (arguable that they could have just hit a small island off the Japanese coast to do the same thing. Either way, Americans should not be ashamed about being the only country to drop nukes).
-Pacific battles were mainly American and Australian vs Japan. Russia, UK, and Canada tried to chip in, but most of the war there was already over.
-Nobody remembers the first attempt at a D-day like landing that got Canadian and Australian troops just slaughtered.
-Textbooks only talk about the three big allied countries (US, UK, Canada), and their own country. I was appalled by the fact that the textbook in Texas wouldn't even credit Canada with it's own beach on D-day. We took Juno Beach, AND made the most headway out of any of the beaches on D-day.

War of 1812 was Canada's war for survive. Your American textbooks can say all they want about it "not being a war over Canada" or "no real victor": Canada was fighting for survive, and we won thanks to British and Native support.

Which ever teacher that said the US got their oil from Venezuela needs to be publicly backhanded and have their teaching rights revoked. Most American oil by far comes from Canada and Mexico. Canada has enough oil to support it's demands and the amount it sends to the US for at least another 100 years. Or it could just support it's own oil demands for 250 years.

 

[§witch]

lol no there in bed with chavez its all a ruse uve bin foold