Social The Ganonic Grimoire - Kongregation of Kings

[A2ZOMG]

@ Ray_Kalm I just learned the hard way how predictable I am. Good games man. I still keep forgetting to factor deliberate powershielding when playing because I don't play against many people who do it.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

@ Ray_Kalm I just learned the hard way how predictable I am. Good games man. I still keep forgetting to factor deliberate powershielding when playing because I don't play against many people who do it.

Yeah good games. I was half asleep while playing you, it's never a good idea to underestimate any player. You had me on a run for my money some of those dittos.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I sometimes feel lonely on For Glory. Barely any Ganon players, though I've run into a decent number of Falcons. I don't actually get to play the ditto matchup that much. But playing against you is really fun. A competent Ganon forces you to play very respectfully.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I sometimes feel lonely on For Glory. Barely any Ganon players, though I've run into a decent number of Falcons. I don't actually get to play the ditto matchup that much. But playing against you is really fun. A competent Ganon forces you to play very respectfully.

I was playing a ton of dittos with Gungnir just yesterday on the Wii U. Boy. They were intenser than intense.

He's very good.

Would you know if Gungnir has any recording devices for the Wii U?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I was playing a ton of dittos with Gungnir just yesterday on the Wii U. Boy. They were intenser than intense.

He's very good.

Would you know if Gungnir has any recording devices for the Wii U?

To answer your last question, your guess is as good as mine. I never asked him about that specifically.

I find it sorta amazing how many grabs you get. I'm bad at this game and I tend to fish for them because they're rewarding, but the way you get in position for them impressive. And well, I find it downright scary how hard it is to land against Ganondorf.

 

[Lilfut]

Is there a Ganon main Skype group yet? I'm in one for Ness and it's an excellent way to build up a community for a character and share strategy and tactics.

 

[Z1GMA]

Ganondorf 156% garantueed combo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0xyv7_Zobo&list=PL7353FB2BF6B815BE

 

[MagiusNecros]

Ganondorf 156% garantueed combo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0xyv7_Zobo&list=PL7353FB2BF6B815BE

Such power. Such combo.

 

[Rizen]

Ganon for S tier!

 

[Sir_Zedd]

Thinking of using good old ganny as my secondary main (with Ness as #1)

Any specific things I shouldn't do? Any neat tricks I should know about? I'm already loving his options out of D-throw at early % and his killing power is phenomenal

 

[HeavyLobster]

Thinking of using good old ganny as my secondary main (with Ness as #1)

Any specific things I shouldn't do? Any neat tricks I should know about? I'm already loving his options out of D-throw at early % and his killing power is phenomenal

I don't know of anything too special. Ganon is mostly just about being patient and reading your opponent, so play smart and enjoy killing your opponent in 4 hits.

 

[Hydde]

add me guys

NNID: Rahrthur

 

[Grey Belnades]

I know this is far too off long but any Lords of Darkness headed to Apex? We must pool our dark power together and murder the competition.

Ganondorf 156% garantueed combo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0xyv7_Zobo&list=PL7353FB2BF6B815BE

 

[A2ZOMG]

Thinking of using good old ganny as my secondary main (with Ness as #1)

Any specific things I shouldn't do? Any neat tricks I should know about? I'm already loving his options out of D-throw at early % and his killing power is phenomenal

The key to Ganondorf is somehow finding a way to make your opponent fear you. Really, it's grappler logic for the most part. The moment your opponent suddenly is afraid to challenge you, it's when you have control over them and then can show them there is no escape from destruction. Most commonly, the easiest way to force your opponent to play carefully against you is to run up and Dash Attack. Does a ton of damage, is fast, beats a lot of things, and puts you in a great position for followups. Figuring out how your opponent reacts to this move is often pretty key to playing Ganondorf.

I would also generally try to learn to edgeguard really aggressively and safely. That in my opinion is one of the easiest ways to be successful with Ganon. Ganondorf is the best character in the game when he has his opponent in a bad position, because he has the potential to not only capitalize easily, but to also end stocks in situations where no other character would be able to. And most importantly, play with the intention of being a step ahead of your opponent.

I'd say among common bad habits I see in myself and other Ganon players, overusing Flame Choke is really easy to do. Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome and satisfying move, but it's also very easily avoided and punished if you just throw it out without first pressuring your opponent into being afraid of other things.

 

[Lilfut]

Quick question - why do people prefer the Dark Fists custom? Is it better for recovery?

 

[HeavyLobster]

Quick question - why do people prefer the Dark Fists custom? Is it better for recovery?

It has incredible kill power and super armor frames that can be useful for avoiding getting gimped.

 

[Big O]

Quick question - why do people prefer the Dark Fists custom? Is it better for recovery?

It has super armor, is about the same recovery distance wise, and is a KO move that can be done OoS. The default Up B has only 2 small benefits which are that it can grab people and that it refreshes itself upon a successful grab. However, Dark Vault does the same thing as the default, but with a better recovery.

Basically the default Up B is a poor middle-ground option with weak reward and mediocre recovery. If the reward on grab was actually worthwhile, it might've been a decent choice.

 

[Lilfut]

Huh, alright. I figured there was something, but I didn't feel like trying to experiment with all the customs. Guess I'll play around with Dark Fists a bit, didn't realize it had that kind of KO potential.

 

[Sir_Zedd]

The key to Ganondorf is somehow finding a way to make your opponent fear you. Really, it's grappler logic for the most part. The moment your opponent suddenly is afraid to challenge you, it's when you have control over them and then can show them there is no escape from destruction. Most commonly, the easiest way to force your opponent to play carefully against you is to run up and Dash Attack. Does a ton of damage, is fast, beats a lot of things, and puts you in a great position for followups. Figuring out how your opponent reacts to this move is often pretty key to playing Ganondorf.

I would also generally try to learn to edgeguard really aggressively and safely. That in my opinion is one of the easiest ways to be successful with Ganon. Ganondorf is the best character in the game when he has his opponent in a bad position, because he has the potential to not only capitalize easily, but to also end stocks in situations where no other character would be able to. And most importantly, play with the intention of being a step ahead of your opponent.

I'd say among common bad habits I see in myself and other Ganon players, overusing Flame Choke is really easy to do. Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome and satisfying move, but it's also very easily avoided and punished if you just throw it out without first pressuring your opponent into being afraid of other things.

Thanks a lot, this is exactly what I was after, now I have a solid starting point. I wasn't quite thinking about pressuring properly.

Looking forward to becoming a true Gerudo King.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well Dark Fists can kill Olimar at 50% no questions asked.

 

[_Magus_]

Happy Festivus, fellow Ganon mains!

 

[A2ZOMG]

It has super armor, is about the same recovery distance wise, and is a KO move that can be done OoS. The default Up B has only 2 small benefits which are that it can grab people and that it refreshes itself upon a successful grab. However, Dark Vault does the same thing as the default, but with a better recovery.

Basically the default Up B is a poor middle-ground option with weak reward and mediocre recovery. If the reward on grab was actually worthwhile, it might've been a decent choice.

One thing that actually is slightly underrated is reverse Up-B out of shield. At 14 frames (and being a grab simultaneously), Dark Dive has some uses in being one of Ganon's fastest options out of shield to cover crossovers.

Mostly though yeah, Dark Fists is usually the best choice because it's harder to intercept, and is able to kill people which can especially be huge for punishing failed edgeguard attempts. Dark Vault I would use mostly to assist edgeguard options where applicable. The benefits for actual recovery against edgeguards are dubious since it does actually kill your horizontal momentum after you use it, meaning it's not good for recovering high.

Also after looking at your frame data, I realized that universal nerfs to spotdodge are actually one of the biggest buffs to Ganondorf in this game. I've noticed that reactively spotdodging ranged grabs like Flame Choke and tether grabs is much harder in this game compared to Brawl. Of course, it's part of the reason why ZSS and Yoshi are kinda insane too...

 

[Big O]

One thing that actually is slightly underrated is reverse Up-B out of shield. At 14 frames (and being a grab simultaneously), Dark Dive has some uses in being one of Ganon's fastest options out of shield to cover crossovers.

Mostly though yeah, Dark Fists is usually the best choice because it's harder to intercept, and is able to kill people. Dark Vault I would use mostly to assist edgeguard options where applicable. The benefits for actual recovery against edgeguards are dubious since it does actually kill your horizontal momentum after you use it.

Why Dark Dive OoS when you can use Dark Fists in the same scenario? Even assuming there are a non-trivial number of scenarios in which only Dark Dive OoS works, the reward just isn't there.

After landing the grab, you have like 2 seconds of lag where you can't do anything on top of having RCO lag when you land. They also don't get knocked too far away, so at low %'s it is plausible that you may get punished on hit for using it. While the possibility exists that the second hit of Dark Fists can miss, the payoff is well worth the risk.

 

[Z1GMA]

00:16 AM over here.
Merry christmas, 'Dorfs.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I'd like to post this because it's festive and Ganon-related.

Also RIP Brawl in the Family.

 

[_Magus_]

 

[Lozjam]

Hope you guys have a happy Christmas Eve. May the great Ganondorf give you all the presents you asked for.

 

[Opana]

For those that have mirrored me/seen videos, how good would you say I am? I'd just like an idea of how I am progressing, I fought a Falcon who is real good, goes to tourneys like Xanadu etc etc and he said i was above average, although I'm not sure how accurate that is tbh. I struggle vs. good Falcons.

 

[Vermanubis]

I think you're a good player, Opana. I've only played you in dittos, so it's hard to really gauge as a whole, but I think at the very least you have the foundations to be a really good player.

If I were to offer one criticism though, if I may, it's that you tend to stick to one strategy. That is, you have a solid MO that you bank on, and deviating from it seems like it may make you uncomfortable. The reason I say that is because when we played, when I began to notice a fairly consistent pattern, and despite punishing several things several times, the patterns didn't change much. When I stopped approaching, that MO in question wasn't as effective, but it didn't change, i.e. I was able to repeatedly exploit the same things.

In other words, if my evaluation is indeed accurate, that just means to mix things up a bit. Be prepared for and know how to deal with different player types, and become comfortable with approaching. When I rushed in, I got hit by FH DAirs, DTilts, etc. but when I realized I was running into a wall of hitboxes, I took it more slowly and found myself getting hit half as much.

 

[Opana]

Thanks, I often thought that myself although you're the only other person to notice lol. I do have a hard time deviating from the norm, I try and apply constant pressure to somewhat make that less apparent I guess, but I'm glad you noticed. I have a hard time playing defensively I'd say, I feel like my weaknesses get taken advantage of there.

I have noticed how different styles of play have affected some MUs for me, I mean this may just be player dependent but I often play a great Pikachu and am usually a bit more cautious, but I decided to just go for it and I seem to do better being constantly aggressive. Whether that's the player or not though, the point is I understand I need to work on that lol.

That's partly why I'd like to play you again, I'd like to improve playing you, although aside from that it was lots of fun.

Thanks.

 

[Vermanubis]

No sweat, dude. I think you've got the goods to overcome those things, so just keep improving and you'll go far.

Also, Merry Christmas, Ganons.

 

[Opana]

No sweat, dude. I think you've got the goods to overcome those things, so just keep improving and you'll go far.

Also, Merry Christmas, Ganons.

Thanks.

I want to become a top Ganon player, I'm not aiming for best but i guess I just want recognition, and coming from you means a lot.

My biggest obstacle as far as recognition goes is my inability to consistently attend tourneys, so if anything this is all I'm looking for lol. Of course, I wouldn't want anything but the truth, so any other criticisms are very much appreciated.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Thanks.

I want to become a top Ganon player, I'm not aiming for best but i guess I just want recognition, and coming from you means a lot.

My biggest obstacle as far as recognition goes is my inability to consistently attend tourneys, so if anything this is all I'm looking for lol. Of course, I wouldn't want anything but the truth, so any other criticisms are very much appreciated.

Welcome to my world, where virtually every tournament is at least an hour or two away from home. Personally me I've given up on being competitive by the definition of a consistent tournament player. I still however see value in competitively driven self-improvement and socialization. If I want recognition, I want to be known for helping others along their way to reaching their competitive goals.

 

[Vermanubis]

I envy you guys! Nearest tournaments to me are 5 hours. Hopefully I'll be in Germany sometime mid next year though, so maybe then I'll be within radiowave-shot of a tournament.

I fully plan to go to those tournaments in Washington, but they'll have to be when I have other reasons to go in addition to the tournament.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

@ Opana from the few games I did watch of yours, I would put your potential level of becoming a top level Ganon quite high. Haha, I remember saying this same thing to Vermanubis after a couple of Brawl games before he started improving.

I guess my location makes me one of the lucky ones in terms of Tournies. Not only are there already top level players, states like New Jersey are close travel distance.

 

[Sykkamorre]

I live in rural UK. Where tourneys happen around here I will never know.

On a MUCH more important note: MERRY CRIMBO YOU SEXY ********

 

[adom4]

I live in rural UK. Where tourneys happen around here I will never know.

On a MUCH more important note: MERRY CRIMBO YOU SEXY *******S

Most people in Israel don't even know what smash is & from the small group of people who did most of them dissappeared.
There hasn't been a tournament here since like 2009, i really hope it'll change now.

 

[Bloodynite]

Merry Christmas everyone

 

[Rizen]

Merry Christmas and happy holidays everyone!

 

[HeavyLobster]

I have obtained a glorious self-portrait which is now proudly displayed within my evil lair. Behold it in all its glory!