The Game & Watch Match-Up Thread - CURRENTLY DISCUSSING OLIMAR

[overgamer]

@Overgamer: I dont see why he is forced to use a ground move ?__? wut

Toon Link outcamps GaW but unlike Snake, when we get an opening, there isnt as much to abuse.
He has a sword and can outrange us, despite having little kill power he kills up, our airials and stupid and he can get past them pretty easily. TL MU is at least as bad as the Snake MU, he lacks the same kill power and survival ability of Snake, but I believe offstage and at close range he can do even better than Snake. It's probably the same imo

Otherwise Zair wiffs.

 

[Splice]

how would using a move afterwards change whether Zair (which has already been used) will whiff or not?

Im sorry i dont understand V___V
Im dumbb

 

[overgamer]

how would using a move afterwards change whether Zair (which has already been used) will whiff or not?

Im sorry i dont understand V___V
Im dumbb

Hum maybe I'm not expressing myself as correctly as I wish I could. I need to make a vid I guess.

 

[SpeedyJ]

Since Toon Link is basically unfamiliar to all of us and there's a lot we can't seem to agree on here's what they think and let's discuss from there.

Mr. Game and Watch: 55:45 TL.
Things to keep in mind:
-Keep GnW away from you at all times. If you get above Gnw the air, just be careful and don't try to land on top of him. GnW gets most of his damage on TL when he is under TL.
-Keep throwing projectiles.
-Teching in this MU can be useful but TL doesn't necessarily need to tech. Past 50% or so, TL can just stand up without being down smashed. The problem with this though is that the opponent can just charge an Up Smash or do Jab to Grab if they see that the TL user keeps on standing up.
-All of TLs Aerials REALLY shut down GnW for the most part (especially bair).
-TL can Up Smash GnW during GnW's bair when GnW doesn't space his bair well.
-Zair out ranges everything GnW has.
-Up Air will beat GnWs down air if you angle it correctly.

Useful Moves:
Bombs, Zair, Bair, Nair, Uair, Boomerang.

Useful Kill Moves
Uair, Fair, Up smash, Up Tilt, Bair (depends on the staleness of this move)

Stages:
FD, PS1, SV

Ban:
Halberd, Green Greens, Yoshi's Island, BF

Videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qAyHeNl5yU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q3ZvMkOCoQ

 

[Splice]

^ thats all pretty much correct imo ^

 

[Ishiey]

Hello!
I'm not entirely sure where to post matchup exports, but this seemed like the most appropriate place. Sorry for interrupting the TL discussion :x
We're discussing the G&W matchup over at the Wolf boards, and it'd be much appreciated if you guys stopped by and gave us some input Thanks!

 

[SpeedyJ]

^ thats all pretty much correct imo ^

Yeah I agree with it too. I'll give this a few days and if no discussion arises and I get the permission of the Tink boards, I'll compose the export from there.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Even.

10chars.

 

[Splice]

^ Makes a good point ^

 

[SpeedyJ]

Even.

10chars.

I don't get it... ><"

Sorry about the export guys, I've actually been busier (no johns) and to be quite frank I can't be bothered doing it sometimes when I do have the time. Nevertheless it will come! I'll make a start this weekend! ^_^

 

[sambo400]

all i know about this is that our upB beats TL's Dair. With my friends this makes the matchup 90:10 GW.

 

[SFA Smiley]

all i know about this is that our upB beats TL's Dair. With my friends this makes the matchup 90:10 GW.

lol so true

Although i'm gonna have to disagree i'm pretty sure Up-B doesnt beat dair it just has invincibility and thats whats making it seem like it's winning

 

[Splice]

im pretty sure that's still winning.

The UpB goes past the Dair, hitting Toon Link, Toon Link takes damage, GaW doesnt.

I consider that to be UpB winning lol.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

This MU is gay. Worst in mid-tier imo.

 

[Splice]

Worst in mid-tier imo.

Definitely!

 

[SFA Smiley]

I dunno, Fox is pretty terrifying IMO

But i don't really fear anyone in Mid-tier for the most part... Luigi scares me though

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

My brother used to main Luigi, we can totally zone him out with just our aerials. Any of them. Just stay out of jab and grab range and you're golden.
You can actually aircamp Fox's laser spam and eventually get the first kill with our upsmash, you can get a lot of free damage just by shielding all the way through is dair and grabbing him.
All opinions of course.

 

[Splice]

Fox is hard, easier to get the kill on though imo

Luigi pfft

 

[A2ZOMG]

Fox is simple to deal with especially if you have the lead. For the large part, he can't really set up a kill on you unless you fail to angle shield correctly, while setting up a kill on him will eventually happen as long as you have solid edgeguarding or techchasing. His juggles and throw setups aren't great, and his options for edgeguarding G&W aren't good either. He doesn't really have the tools to stop you from just running over him with B-air either if you corner him, especially since his options for punishing it out of shield are pretty lousy (to be fair, if you're at point blank range, getting U-smashed oos can be a bit ugly).

I mean the main issue is simply just killing him before he catches you making a random stupid mistake, but once that happens, G&W doesn't have much to worry about.

SDIing well is fairly important against Fox. Something that should be done more when he D-airs or F-airs you.

Ideally play this matchup on a stage with platforms, since you'll want to be able to platform camp him.

Fox in teams however is really really gay to deal with.

 

[SFA Smiley]

The main Luigi i used to play was much better than me, so playing him felt sorta hopeless and I found myself dying at stupid percents

But yeah I would say it's easier to KO Fox than TL

I guess TL really is our hardest Mid tier matchup, never thought about it

How disappointing...

 

[Ruuku]

I think G&W's uair messes with Toon Link big time if he goes for an aerial approach. But I don't really see other G&Ws use it that way in some matches where it helps a lot. So I guess that won't matter until there's video proof. Anyway, dtilt and crouch->dtilt helps a great deal in this match up. Both against approaches and projectiles.

 

[LinkinHand]

i play somtimes against some (good) tinks and it really helps using uairand up b against those ****ing bombs the just fly away and you don't have to deal with them anymore
@ the up b >>>>> tinks dair
if the tink times it right he can hit you after your invincibility frames v.v

 

[jayboi221]

From my personal experience i think the Marth matchup is not 35/65 it shud be 45/55

 

[nekokatsu]

From my personal experience i think the Marth matchup is not 35/65 it shud be 45/55

i totally agree, when hes SHfairing u, u can duck and d tilt, and he will eat that d tilt every time.

but i think we are onto TL, i agree on the u air statement, it messes with TL a lot, he cant d air properly, and if the TL like to use a lot of bombs (i know all TL uses a lot of bombs xD) hes screwed, unless he can adapt to the fact that his bombs are going up or having some exp fighting GW.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I would love if we discussed Falco next, because I hear so many different things on it, and I honestly have no idea what to think/play better/who can do what, and I want to learn it as G&W because he's probably my best character for Falco (out of ZSS, Dedede, and DK)

 

[Makke]

....................

 

[SFA Smiley]

Falco beats us

As for Marth... I still think he's our worst, Him and ICs

 

[SpeedyJ]

Hey guys, sorry I kinda..died.. I just don't go on smashboards anymore. Anyone who wants to and is able is free to take over the match-up thread and make exports. Just please follow the same format I used for Snake, and PM me so I can add your export to this thread. Alternatively, you can just PM me and have me publish it myself. Whatever floats your boat. (I have email notification to PMs)

Take care guys.

I shall some day return as an active contributor! ;D

Edit: The Toon Link Export comes out tomorrow!

Please note that a lot of what I say may be incorrect but please realize that there really wasn't any input - especially in comparison to the Snake discussion, so I tried filling in the blanks with my own prior knowledge, even though the last time I played Brawl was who knows when and last time I played this match-up was even longer ago. Just politely correct me if you find anything wrong.

 

[Splice]

Hey guys, sorry I kinda..died.. I just don't go on smashboards anymore.

Happens every time

 

[SpeedyJ]

New match-up thread is up!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=12880388#post12880388

Edit: You guys can decide the new match-up amongst yourselves.

 

[aatami]

I vote Ike. (Just because it is so popular in our gaming group)

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I still vote Falco.

 

[izzy24]

ummm.... metaknight?

 

[SpeedyJ]

I've actually thought of something interesting, and quite ingenious if I do say so myself.

Anyway, sorry to those of you who haven't gotten their vote in; better luck next time I guess, but whenever we're deciding on a new character match-up, after I've confirmed "deciding on a new character", the first three posts after my message decide which character. If it ends up in a situation like this where there is no majority vote then we will have another vote on it - but only the three characters (opposed to the rest of the cast).

What we do from here is the next poster chooses from the three. People who have voted for a character are not allowed to decide (lol obviously).

I've decided it will be like this because the G&W boards aren't the most active boards so frequent and fast posting is good for keeping people still interested. Besides, I think most people are going to ask for help with the higher tier match-ups anyway so we shouldn't have to worry about "stupid" suggestions like Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon and Yoshi.

So, what'll it be?

IKE ? FALCO ? META KNIGHT ?


.

 

[Ruuku]

Falco, I choose you.

 

[Makke]

..................

 

[SpeedyJ]

Alright, Falco it is then!

I'll start; clearly its 100:0 to us because we can bucket his lasers.

Loljk. Lets start with something posted a while back but you guys may have forgotten about it.

Falco shuts down G&W. A good Falco does EXACTLY what people have theorized Snake does to G&W, except he's easily MUCH better at doing that nonsense than Snake is. So actually playing against Falco isn't like playing against Snake at all. It's worse if they know what they're doing.

Although you can duck lasers, they still are lame to deal with since jumping against them is not wise. Falco's 2 frame Jab that outranges a lot of your ground moves, 6 frame F-tilt that is safe on block, as well as his broken F-smash which may be the longest ranged F-smash in the game after ZSS's and DDD's perhaps make Falco a nightmare to get in on.

Falco is also much harder to edgeguard than Snake. Granted, he gets punished much harder than Snake for screwing up, but his tools for actually controlling the match and picking you apart are by far better.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

I can mostly agree with A2's post you quoted, except that Falco can't do much about our bair poking, as opposed to Snake who just holds shield and ftilts us from halfway across the stage.

Anyway, I like to duck lasers until they get bored and approach. Holding down the control stick is a lot less work than shooting lasers, unless they just sit there tapping b in which case you fill your bucket for free and continue to crouch camp them.

After you start fighting Falco's jab > G&W's moveset.

 

[Makke]

....................

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

A lot of Falco's have a pattern when it comes to them shooting lasers, most times I see Falco's shoot opponents after knocking them off stage, this is pretty much the best time to absorb them.

Also, do not pull out the bucket at the very start of a match, I highly doubt a Falco will start a match against G&W by shooting lasers.