The future of Diddy's metagame.

[GooseMainsDiddy]

Okay we all know that Diddy is only good with his bananas correct? I'd say without them, he is maybe low-mid at best. I was just wondering something today as I was going over a local tournament I had recently gone to. I pretty much owned everyone who couldn’t handle the heat from my insane tactical genius. However, there were a few cases where people did an unspeakable act. THEY ACTUALLY PICKED UP MY BANANAS! Like really what the hell guys. What do you expect to do with them? Oh wait, they threw them back at me. Who is to say that other people won't soon do this on a pro level? The more time that goes on the smarter people will be against them. Mindgames can only get you so far on a pro level. Ninjalink pretty much ***** everyone who is anyone with Diddy Kong but that is only if nobody gets a hold on his precious nanners. Now tell me, what do you think will become of Diddy in the future?

tl;dr: People might get smarter with the bananas and actually learn to do something about them.

 

[Kitamerby]

Can't some characters theoretically use them better than Diddy can? I think Samus I heard had a better dribbling ability or something...

 

[GooseMainsDiddy]

Well overall, I think that Diddy uses them the best due to his glide toss being almost perfect distance for maximum combo ability. Also he has the best dash attack in the game as it seems it is specifically for picking up the bananas and other items. I don't know much about Samus but i'm pretty sure the fact that she can dribble better won't help her, dribbling isn't really that useful anyways.

Side note: Diddy can glide toss almost the same distance for every direction which only helps him more.

 

[Kitamerby]

Well overall, I think that Diddy uses them the best due to his glide toss being almost perfect distance for maximum combo ability. Also he has the best dash attack in the game as it seems it is specifically for picking up the bananas and other items. I don't know much about Samus but i'm pretty sure the fact that she can dribble better won't help her, dribbling isn't really that useful anyways.

Side note: Diddy can glide toss almost the same distance for every direction which only helps him more.

Then I would imagine that there isn't much to worry about, in that case.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

the only way to prevent this from happening is keeping track of your naners.
when they respawn, glide toss up so they cant grab them, it also sometimes helps to have only one naner out at a time to practice keeping them away from your opponent
i have a friend whos really good at catching or sucking up my naners when i throw them right at him, so ive learned to dribble or popgun cancel before the throw to throw them off. basically just alter your play style to how your opponent gets hold of your bananas

 

[Vorguen]

There is much more to do with your bananas than keeping them on the ground. They pick them up? Learn to rocket-barrel cancel.

 

[Khaoz]

I highly doubt this will become too huge of a deal for Diddys.

It's simply a person learning the match up.

When I fight Diddy there's pretty much one thing on my mind. "Bananas, bananas, bananas..."

Then when the opportunity comes, you get rid of (or as you stated, use) the main thing in the match up that gives you a hard time.

It's exactly like fighting against the Ice Climbers. If you know the match up, there's one thing on your mind. 'Don't get grab'. If you can avoid that threat (as hard as it may seem), the match up suddenly becomes easier.

And when people learn the match up, it doesn't necessarily make your character worse, it just changes the way you play them.


(IMO)

 

[TreK]

Some people in france, when they can pick my bananas, throw them outstage... Fools... I **** them for being stupid whenever it happens.

If they counter it...
Basically, diddy's dash attack is pwnsome. Just predict when they're going to throw it and dash attack at the right time. don't release the pressure so they want to throw it at you faster and do stupid stuff. It's EASYYY !
If you're precise enough, you could even take them with a jab to be less vulnerable, but i usually don't try it since i play online, and can't do it reliably. If you don't have the time or if you want to mess with the momentum, you can rocket cancel the bananas they throw at you, or shield them+ jump oos -> pick them up with whatever you want.
People with long glide toss seem to always use them the wrong way. You can monkey kick them. Better ones are a pain, but still, it's not like diddy is bad at countering bananas.training makes perfect ^_^
I'll be worried about it when people will get better at countering them AND using them.

 

[Nitrix]

People will learn how to use the bananas, but never to the proficiency that Diddies can.

Maybe in the future we will expand Diddies physical metagame?

 

[ADHD]

Diddy's dash attack will never be able to be competed with, also his insane glide tossing skills.

 

[bludhoundz]

Snake's comes close

Yes, bananas can be used against Diddy and smart players will learn the Diddy matchup and begin using the naners against him.

That doesn't mean he will really get worse though... he clearly has the best naner control out of all the cast. He is the only one who can make new bananas (and they automatically start as his).

To top it off he already has attacks that combo into each other well (dash attack, utilt, dtilt) and a good grab game (which is complimented well by bananas).

 

[DFEAR]

hmm you think diddy has his own mortar slide with upsmash or something o-o?

 

[white peachy]

No, to my knowledge he doesn't have a DACUS, and if he had one IMO it would be pretty worthless.

On topic: You have to be smart. Good players will try to steal your bananas all the time. If you shield a thrown banana it tends to go directly over your heard so you can short hop out of sheild and grab it with z or an aerial. Rocket barrel cancel works once in awhile too. Remember you can grab nanas off the ground that are under your opponents control as you touch the ground by using an aerial or pressing L/R. But diddy's dash attack and glide toss length are perfect for controlling his naners in general.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

some charas just cant pick up items from the ground as they have a horrible grab range, so really, i dont see this happening

 

[GooseMainsDiddy]

People will learn how to use the bananas, but never to the proficiency that Diddies can.

Maybe in the future we will expand Diddies physical metagame?

An expansion of diddy's physical game would be needed if I am correct.

Also you guys just need to open your eyes a bit. Other players will get smarter and the matchup can only get worse for Diddy. His whole metagame revolves on trickery and his tricks can only get him so far.

 

[rvkevin]

An expansion of diddy's physical game would be needed if I am correct.

Also you guys just need to open your eyes a bit. Other players will get smarter and the matchup can only get worse for Diddy. His whole metagame revolves on trickery and his tricks can only get him so far.

I totatally agree, when I picked up Diddy, it was utter destructions because people didn't know how to respond to bananas...First they got hit and got comboed, then they threw them off the stage, then they started catching them with attacks while hitting me, and now they are just as good at using them as me...Its hard to start banana combos because they either pick them up when thrown at them or they shield and pick them up before I can get there among other things. Also, one thing that wasn't mentioned is that Diddy loses tempo when pulling bananas, where if he's pressured, he loses the banana or gets punished for pulling it. A lot of characters can pick up the bananas really easily. (Wolf's Fair, Snakes mortar slide, Marth's Fair just to name a few.) The problem with Diddy is that his mistakes are magnified since he has difficulty killing and is light and easily gimped. I'm kinda curious why some of the "Elite" Diddy players (Nanerz) focus so much on banana approaches->Dsmash if hit/grab if shielded? I find that they are easily countered if the opponent reacts properly...

 

[Light_13]

I've recognized this to. Not to mention Anther giving out advice to people "dont fear bannanas, use them". I heard that at a tourny and was like O_O.....X_X*Im screwed..

 

[Kaptain Kong]

we diddy mains need to spend more time protecting our bananas from those who might steal them

 

[GooseMainsDiddy]

we diddy mains need to spend more time protecting our bananas from those who might steal them

Easier said than done. Let me just clarify that I am not sure that I am correct about Diddy's metagame but it is a possibility in my mind. I really hope for something better. The real argument here is whether or not Diddy's superior banana handling can make up for the fact that the player can counter them.

 

[DFEAR]

OR instead of worrying about protecting bananas we can create diversions and/or traps such as

specifically place a banana near you on a platform and have one in your hand. your opponent has really two options, if he goes for the banana...punish. if he goes for you play normally i think in general you just have to be more daring and more cunning with bananas. mindgames > all

 

[Kaptain Kong]

nicely said.
we also need to figure out what to do if you have one banana near you, and one far away
if we go for it, than they punish, but if we dont, they get it and possibly punish
i agree that if were cunning than we can get it back, but it wont work every time if the other player catches on
also, in your scenario, Dfear, the opponent could use an aerial to catch the naner and hit you, unless you strike first

imo, being aggresive with your naners helps you to control them better

 

[DFEAR]

nicely said.
we also need to figure out what to do if you have one banana near you, and one far away
if we go for it, than they punish, but if we dont, they get it and possibly punish
i agree that if were cunning than we can get it back, but it wont work every time if the other player catches on
also, in your scenario, Dfear, the opponent could use an aerial to catch the naner and hit you, unless you strike first

imo, being aggresive with your naners helps you to control them better

true but it depends, alot of people like to zcatch or airdodge catch them for safety as not to get punish after they do an aerial ya know. but i agree with u as well. if the opponent sees us trying to base the whole match on our banana play then he will utilize it as well. and if he sees u attempting and just trying to go for the banana in desperation then you will be gladly punished. u gotta make it seem like you dont even need bananas in those moments that way your opponent can ignore these factors.

 

[GDX]

just sounds like to me that people need to learn more about diddy's actual attacks and how to fight without bananas in case of emergency situations. Just dont use bananas in friendlies for a month or two. not too hard

youd be suprised how effective it is to go from banana spam diddy to physical diddy in a matchup. you thought people didnt know how to handle bananas. People have never even SEEN a diddy not use bananas and whoop them

I play online with diddy, but because its online and it lags cause its bad, i dont use bananas. Literally every single person I play had no idea how diddy could fight without bananas. Its like they were overwhelmed by the fact that he didnt need them to actually do something productive. Im not saying drop bananas altogether, but im just saying play without them for a while to learn to actually fight. Its gonna pay off when you run into a wario that you cant camp and hes avoiding your bananas perfectly

 

[DKKountry]

Way back at the beginning of dribbling, I argued for this same theory; that people will learn to control Diddy's nanners and thusly take away his biggest advantage. The advantage that Diddy still has though, is that he is the one that spawns the nanners, thus having both available nanners in his control to start with. It doesn't sound like much, but it's a pretty big factor in the fight to turn the nanners against Diddy.

That being said, I still partially maintain my original opinion that someone who knows how to play with Diddy's nanners can SERIOUSLY hamper their effectiveness.

I don't main diddy per se, but then again I have never really mained anyone. Diddy is one of my favorite characters though, so I've had a good bit of experience with him and usually when I play against othr Diddy mains they noticeably decrease their nanner usage, simply because I make it a chore for them to keep control of them. Therefore, I think that any self-respecting Diddy main who cares about his future nanner-powers should play against other Diddy mains using a secondary or something, thus familiarizing himself with the kinds of nanner-stealing tactics that people will be applying as Diddy becomes a more popular character.

Disclaimer: IMHO

 

[Le_THieN]

I've already vocalized this here:

Nah, after playing Snakes and MKs almost exclusively these last three weeks, I'm of the stubborn opinion that both match-ups just got much more difficult.

In fact, let me go ahead and just put this out there now, so that you guys are hearing this from me first: in the not-too-distant future, Diddy Kong will drop somewhat significantly in the tier list as people develop one key anti-item tactic against the character. Eventually, every major player worth their grain of salt will learn the match-up so well to the point where they will catch banana peels upon instinct and command.

This is the dystopia of our meta-game. Let's come up with a solution quick!

I saw a lot of subpar Diddy Kong players at Clash of the Titans 4, and this is unfortunately definitely the direction that we are headed in.

 

[DFEAR]

I've already vocalized this here:



I saw a lot of subpar Diddy Kong players at Clash of the Titans 4, and this is unfortunately definitely the direction that we are headed in.

yea i started noticing now everytime i glide toss they immedietly press a and catch my banana and to try to mindgame them i run up to them shield for a sec to fool them of me glidetossing and continue as normal. but still. our metagame will drop significantly as others progress :\.

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

Can't some characters theoretically use them better than Diddy can? I think Samus I heard had a better dribbling ability or something...

Sonic and R.O.B. are pretty good with such items due to their long GT and they can combo into Smashes. R.O.B. actually often does that with his Gyro.

 

[Kayzee]

Yeah, old news dude. I had this experience months ago. You'll have to learn to either control your bananas better than your opponent, or use less bananas.