• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The Fox of 09 VOLUME 2: tactics week 3: person with the best things to say

NeverKnowsBest

Monochrome Like A Panda
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
6,331
Location
Fort Washington, MD.
1. I camp SHDL
2. Mindgame you into a combo
3. Make you look stupid in front of everyone
4. Talk maaaaaaaad smack
5. Usmash you
6. Repeat 1-5
:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:
ROFL! That should be the basis of all Fox players. We make people look like *****ES!!!

Rook you going to BTYF? Because I saw that Ryko is going.
 

A6M Zero

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
646
Location
Vancouver BC
Playing Fox is ****ing REPRESENTIN

1. Counterpick Fox against Pikachu then make a scene for an audience.
2. Drop two stocks at 96% vs. said Pikachu
3. Smirk
4. Camp SHDL
5. **** ***** with mad mental hitstun and combo **** lemon!
6. Take 3 stocks from Pikachu.
7. Turn to the sweating, heart-racing Pikachu player and shake his hand, cool and collectively.
8. Tell him he's been thoroughly out-foxed.
 

718_ROOKI3

Smash Lord
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,175
Location
Nana locking Snake's all over New York City
Playing Fox is ****ing REPRESENTIN

1. Counterpick Fox against Pikachu then make a scene for an audience.
2. Drop two stocks at 96% vs. said Pikachu
3. Smirk
4. Camp SHDL
5. **** ***** with mad mental hitstun and combo **** lemon!
6. Take 3 stocks from Pikachu.
7. Turn to the sweating, heart-racing Pikachu player and shake his hand, cool and collectively.
8. Tell him he's been thoroughly out-foxed.
:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:
You got more on the list but there is more i would say but im not in the mood to get dumb infractions...
 

chaos_Leader

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
1,035
Location
among the figments of your imagination
I've got a few tactical tips if anyone wants to hear'em...
Here goes nothing.

Dealing with a variety of opponents' playstyles.
I cannot stress this point enough when using Fox:
This character is not a one-trick-pony.
Fox has no amazing abilities that are directly transferable against all characters, and you cannot use the same tactics against every character or every player and expect to come-out strong.

What you have, are tools.
Regarding things like shine-spiking, pivot-grabbing, illusion-canceling, any of the basic techniques you should already know, or fancy-footwork you've figured out for yourself:
it doesn't matter if you are able or unable to perform any of these parlor-tricks; what matters, is using the right maneuver in the circumstances you are in.

For the purposes of this musing, let us assume you are comfortable with your character and can perform any given technique on-command.

Fox does have an advantage that many other characters lack:
He can be a very versatile fighter, able to switch-off between defensive, offensive, anything in-between, and near-instantaneously if needed.
This is what I will be discussing today.

There is a school of thought that I've found works generally well in thwarting a great variety of players:
Force them out of their element.
Do not play into your opponent's natural tendencies. Instead: force them to play against you in a playstyle they are uncomfortable with.

This is a pretty murky subject, so let me use an example:

Force defensive players to play aggressively
Fox is given two tools that can force all but the most stubborn defensive players to come at you: a blaster, and a reflector.

Blaster
Do not expect to deal a lot of damage with this, and do not expect to stop anyone in their tracks with it. In my experience, the blaster has only a single use, but an essential use:
to provoke a response.
When you unload a sting of pesky little blaster-shots, your opponent is going to do something. It doesn't matter what they do (shield, duck, reflect, absorb, ignore, whatever), but as long as they react to your shots, you will have something to read in your opponent, and thus a foundation from which to form your strategies and tactics.

Reflector
This is for those who would simply stand on the other side of the stage and throw things at you. Again, this is mostly to provoke a response. There are only a select few ways to undermine Fox's shine from afar, and you can generally out-wait most projectile spammers by just sitting there with the reflector on (Remember, these are defensive players were talking about here).

Provoking a defensive player to attack will often force them out of their comfort-zone as they hastily rearrange their own tactics to combat your own defensive posture. This is where they will tend to make mistakes as they are more used to reacting to aggression, rather than taking the initiative themselves.
When they slip-up their attack: exploit the opening they give you without mercy.

patience is the key when dealing with any defensive player. against some characters-player combinations , you may have to play 'the waiting game'. It may seem silly, but you have to be the more stubborn one, most defensive players are more than content to let you charge at them and predict your every move. Do not let them have it their way: make them come and stop your blaster-spamming, or reflector-holding.


Force aggressive players to play defensively
I'm going to admit: this is a bit of a tricky basket.
These are the kind of players who will wear-down your defenses and bulldoze you over when you try to squirm free from their onslaught.

For this scenario: you will have to put the blaster away, and hang-up the reflector. They'll ignore your blaster shots anyway, and a reflector won't do you any good (shine is a different story). You cannot play full-on defensively against an aggressive player and expect to win: Most agro-players come to expect this kind of 'turtling' from their opponents, and they will just keep the hammer coming until you crack under pressure.

In order to coerce an aggressive player into submission, you are going to have to get in their face and under their skin.

What this means, is using a kind of 'pseudo-aggressive' set of tactics.
Rather than waiting for your opponent to come to you, go after them; indirectly. Don't forget: Fox is just not the kind of character to over-power another, charging headlong into oncoming aggression is only going to get you hit that much harder.
What you need to do: is a series of feints, fake-outs, and other aggressive-looking things that will provoke a response.

Aggressive players are generally caught off-guard by an opposing aggressive maneuver, but don't think they won't try something. They will often immediately put-up defenses of their own, under the assumption that you are coming to get them. Even if they don't do it often, agro-players know how to receive another agro-player, and they will pummel-punish you if you simply mindlessly charge into them.

By using feints and fake-out maneuvers to stay in your opponent's face, you will keep them guessing and unsure of what to do with you next. This is where they will make mistakes when they try to thwart your 'aggression' with a counterattack, or other hastily planned defensive maneuver. And This, is where you you once again exploit the openings they give you without mercy.
(Keep in mind that defensive players will generally be able to catch-on to these kind of maneuvers, and are more than prepared to punish you for them. aggressive players are not usually in this situation, and will thus make more mistakes.)

in short:
In order to come out on top; you have to drive your opponent absolutely bonkers, you have to deprive them of what they want most out of you, you have to make the match as inconvenient as is humanly possible for them.
Figure out what your opponent wants you not to do, then do it to the extent that they can no longer handle it.

Thing to know:
Falco sh lasering toward you is aggressive play. He is generally trying to set up your defenses so he can get you with a chaingrab or one of his other shenanigans.

That's what I've got, have fun discussing it
 

SnowballBob33

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
559
Location
Maryland
^^^
How I do this
works 90% of the time
start off really agressive, meaning sh dair, just being really agressive. dont shoot any lasers
then once you see them adapt, you change up your playstyle. shfair to make them think ur going to keep doing the same thing then fall back and keep blasting them. once they get camped they have to change again, but this time they dont know what you will do. then you just mess with their heads and punish all their mistakes for trying to anticipate you.

you have to switch it around depending on what opponent ur playing. for example u would play rob different than u play luigi.

this works best when you and your opponent are going back and forth. It's unecessary if you are winning by enough
 

chaos_Leader

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
1,035
Location
among the figments of your imagination
As a continuation of my last post, we'll move on the the next level of play:

Dealing with players who can read and adapt.

You are going to have so much fun toying with your opponent when you can get the hang of this...

Bait and Switch.

Adapter-players are constantly watching you like a hawk, waiting for your next move so they can prepare a counter-maneuver. What do these players want? They want you to do something, they want you to have a predictable pattern of defense and attack that they can drive a wedge between and screw you over with. They want to be sure of themselves when they see you do move A, predict your move C, and knock you upside the head before you can get around to move B. (I know, I like to do this a lot.)

To drive an Adapter-player nuts, you have to prove their scheming and predictions wrong.
You have to be able to say to them: "You thought I was going to do move C instead of move D, didn't you?"
To which the Adapter-player should sheepishly respond: "yeah... but you were supposed to do move C."

Adapter-players are always ready to move (that's not to say they are always moving). They may have an "idle-cycle", some examples are: short-hops, dash-dancing, pacing or some other repetitive movement to throw you off while they wait for your next move. From the Adapter's "idle-cycle", the player can generally advance, retreat, feint and essentially launch into a variety of maneuvers that the circumstances require.

Do not try to attack them directly when they are in this state, they will be able to quickly put-up their defenses and be ready to receive your aggression when they switch into defense-mode. And don't stand-idle too long either, as the adapter-player will generally creep forward until they have you at the edge, at which-point they can jab you into an uncomfortable spot when they switch into aggro-mode.

Before you can do anything against an Adapter-player, you need 'test the waters' and see where the 'trip-wires' to their methods are: you need to spring the trap, but not become victim to it. To do this: approach them, but try to stay a safe distance away for now. The trick is to look like you mean business each time you throw a dummy-maneuver their way, so you can see what they plan on doing to you when they punish you. You may take it in the face a little when your experiments with your opponent go sour, but if you learn something about their technique, then it is all worth it; trust me.

Adapter-players want to be thinking two steps ahead of you, the best way to undermine that, is to take the playbook they [adapter-player] think they have of you, and completely throw it out the window. Condition your opponent into using predictable counter-responses (look-up Pavlov's dogs, this is exactly what you will be doing to your opponent), then completely switch-up on them. Instead of doing what you 'normally' do, go about your game with a completely different angle.

This is an extraordinarily subtle, nuanced process, and it requires you to have complete comfort and complete confidence in your ability to maneuver and manipulate Fox. You have to be able to play the character as if you were several different, individual players, and you're simply handing-off the controller to another set of hands. The smarter your opponent is, the faster you'll have to cycle through your various playstyles. You have to keep your opponent constantly trying to re-learn your style, trying to figure you out. Just when they think they have you, switch it up on them again. the smarter your opponent thinks they are, the more easily manipulated they'll be by this Pavlov's dog conditioned-response method.

(Do not simply throw-out randomness. If your technique has no set structure for your opponent to read, they will stop trying to read you, and deal-with you in a simpler manner. You need your opponent to be trying to figure you out, and to do that, they need something to read.)

The real trick to this technique, which I cannot teach you, is to know when to switch. It's up to you to figure-out when the adapter-player has caught-on to a given playstyle, and up to you to switch-up when the time is right.

You can go through the entire match doing this cat-and-mouse of predicting and unpredictability, but the holy-grail of this technique, the ultimate climax, is when you finally break your opponent.
When your opponent grows agitated, weary and downright sick of your shenanigans, they may abandon their practiced techniques, and revert back to a simpler play, often poorly. Don't be caught off-guard when they finally snap, they will so many times degrade into a hyper-aggression and can potentially blow you back for the win if you're not ready for it.
When you break your opponent's willpower, you will almost certainly win.


Thing to know:
Oftentimes, the most annoying thing you can do to an adapter-player, is nothing at all.
That's right, just stand there.
during a heated match -when you and your opponent are locked in the fierce exchange of blows, grabs, shields and dodges- if it is safe to do so: just stop, and do nothing. Your opponent's fingers will still be following their muscle-memory and may launch into another maneuver, leaving them open and ripe for punishment.
Have fun.

That's what I have...
 
Top Bottom