The Fox of 09 VOLUME 2: tactics week 3: person with the best things to say

[soul ark]

Hello my name is Soul ark if you dont know me already I made this thread to address the the several techniques and styles to playing Fox you how you as a Fox main can add these different elements to your own personal style.

also just in case for convos im chaos for dummys @ aim

Best of luck
Soul Ark

good reads
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203043
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=189245
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204958
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205043
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6262010#post6262010
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=223319
Props to A6M zero and Fenrir VII please use this thread as a reference or a thread that can discuss the mindset you should have while playing as fox

 

[A6M Zero]

Imo snowballbob's video showed better strings than Rookie's. Not important though.

The thread in the first link is outdated and was more of a filler in the gap of a base for Fox when brawl first came out.

The deconstruction of the Japanese Fox is still current for the most part...I might update it a bit.

 

[Sukai]

This looks like the sort of thing you ask in the Q&A if it's okay first, if you already have, I'll pardon myself.
In any case you can use the PNF for a reference.
I haven't so much quit it as postponed, but now I see that it's better of as a learning step to a better Fox, not so much something entirely new and fresh.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6262010#post6262010

 

[soul ark]

knuxrouge i wanted to use your thread as a reference but i couldn't find it's... idk if the Q&A thread would have cut it i linked it thank you

A6M would you still say the first thread somewhat useful or is it all trash now i would like to keep it up so people might have a good idea about how they should be playing stock wise but if you say the info is obsolete I'll trust you.

if you guys are know any other thread that are available let me know i would be glad to make a compilation of informative threads

 

[Yaya]

Deleted for wrong account signed on.

 

[A6M Zero]

Ehhhhh I guess I can update it.

 

[soul ark]

thanks it would be nice to see your perspective about the idea... well updated anyways

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

well since this would start the SHDL discussion here is the way it's pulled off/

Short hop followed by firing 2 lasers usually starting the 2 lasers near the top of the jump as to have the second be canceled by the landing animation.
If done right there will be a high laser fired from the top of the short hop followed by a canceled laser at regular ground level. The canceled laser will alow you to perform any attack out of the laser from dash's to smash attacks and don't forget another jump to repeat the SHDL over again.


This is rather nice to just rack up damage on a long distance opponent (how ever long you wanna call fox's laser distance), it can also be added with the aerial reversal to perform retreating SHDL.
every fox main out there should know this like the back of there hand, as well as the slimmed down version, the SHSL.

Both are good for jumpy opponents and large enemy's, also no laser should ever be grounded unless there is no possible chance of the ground laser being punished. and since the last laser is canceled it allows anything to be used as a follow up. And since this is fox's only projectile, you should know it well.

 

[Zhamy]

SHDL: You should do it.

SHL gives slightly added mobility, SHTL means you can barely move. What else is there to discuss?

 

[crifer]

retreating shdl or shl and follow up with dash grab or dash attack,
great! The most Fox need more lasers to bait,
which would you prefer, shdl or shlc?
would u use it 50:50 ???
I dont like shtl bc you barely move...

 

[RPK]

I believe all 3 have their use...
Short hopped single laser: This is upon approaching an opponent. Mixing this up with empty short hops, amongst other things will help keep your opponent guessing and forcing them to keep their guard up instead of standing and waiting there to powershield your approach. This is best used mid range imo...
Short hopped double laser: I think this is much better for retreating or running away from your opponent while just because its easier to perform.
Short hopped triple laser: I believe is best used when your just basically in place waiting for your opponent. Or upon approaching mid range since its easier to perform while moving forward.

Im probably the only one but whatever...I personally dont see the difference in length between the short hopped double laser and the short hopped triple. I literally dont see any difference besides that short hopped triple laser is hard to do while retreating. Besides that, they have the same length. If you guys want, I can make a replay showing the length of the short hop have it compare the two to the length of a full short hop, and then send over the video to someone who can put it on youtube.

EDIT: Just made the replay. My lasering skills look so sexy :3 except for short hopped double...I gotta work on that one more >.>

 

[KheldarVII]

Useless, never use. Next.

 

[A6M Zero]

SHL > SHDL, agree with Kheldar.

SHDL makes me feel too out of control, and if you aim to hit with both lasers then you lose your mobility for the timing.

Next.

 

[Zhamy]

SHL > SHDL, agree with Kheldar.

He was being sarcastic, like nearly all of his posts nowadays.

 

[KheldarVII]

Well there's the SHDL.... and the over the top awesome SHSLWTASULOL (short hop single laser with the added stealth uber laser on landing).

I find it much more useful.

 

[A6M Zero]

He was being sarcastic, like nearly all of his posts nowadays.

No I wasn't. SHL > SHDL

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

agreed
SHL> SHDL >SHTL

progressively more lasers, progressively less mobile






Mobility is a big plus.
when your character is the 3rd fastest in the game you can't stand idly by and use attacks that have faster counterparts.

 

[Zhamy]

No I wasn't. SHL > SHDL

Kheldar was. I also disagree, since neither is objectively better, but SHDL can be used in more situations.

 

[AvaricePanda]

I would think that both are good. I want to say that I think SHL is used more when approaching/quasi-approaching and SHDL is used more when camping/retreating, but I honestly use SHL when retreating. That's just my personal preference.

But as Zhamy said, neither is clearly better than the other. There's nothing wrong with staying mobile and firing one laser, nor is there anything wrong with firing an extra.

 

[RPK]

I still think that short hopped triple laser is good =\ I just wished I could show my replay. Unless one of you is willing to take the replay and transfer it over to youtube for me :3

 

[Zhamy]

I still think that short hopped triple laser is good

It isn't bad, but it isn't good. Sure, on a large, long stage where your opponent is far away and kind of slow, maybe you can hit with 2/3 lasers somewhat consistently. But otherwise, I don't see any real advantage to it.

 

[RPK]

well, why not triple instead of double? Imo, its a much better option upon approach, and when sitting there. Cause there isnt a difference between the double and the triple except that triple laser is harder to do while retreating. I mean if you can add that extra laser in there for that possible extra damage why not? Two at the top and a silent one upon landing. Thats too good imo. And again I got the replay if someone is willing to put it up on uuuutubes for meh. :3

 

[Zhamy]

I mean if you can add that extra laser in there for that possible extra damage why not? Two at the top and a silent one upon landing.

Because that extra inch is the difference between Pikachu chaingrabbing you to 80% or whiffing it. (Trust me, I know.)

We had a huge thread about this already, and nearly everyone agreed that SHTL is just too limiting on mobility. And with Brawl slow as it is, you can't afford to mess up spacing, and I'd rather be able to move just out of ZSS's SideB range with the movement I get from SHDL than sit there, barely inching away with SHTL.

With SHDL, the beginning of your jump is still maneuverable, but with SHTL, you cut off momentum from the start of your jump.

It's your choice, but I prefer freedom of movement over 2%.

 

[RPK]

well, like I said in one of my posts is that shtl is meant to be used when you and your opponent are approaching mid range which from there its best to switch to shsl, or when you are at a long range where you can pelt your opponent with a barrage of lasers without the fear of the after lag of standing lasers. Only thing I see shdl good for is when you are retreating away from your opponent. And you guys make it sound like there is a difference in distance between short hopped triple laser, and short hopped double laser.

 

[AvaricePanda]

And you guys make it sound like there is a difference in distance between short hopped triple laser, and short hopped double laser.

Because there is.

When you SHDL laser, you have more time at the beginning of the jump to move somewhere, because you don't start firing lasers right after you short jump. To SHTL, you have to start firing lasers right after you short jump or you won't do it right, AKA less movement.

If you're camping, I'd assume that SHTL isn't bad, but I've always used SHDL for camping because it's just easier to get away in case my opponent does a surprise rush. Easier to maneuver...just easier.

 

[Zhamy]

And you guys make it sound like there is a difference in distance between short hopped triple laser, and short hopped double laser.

Okay, I want you to try something.

SHTL and try to move forward during the beginning and end of the jump. See how far you move.

Now, SHDL and try to move forward during the beginning and end of the jump. See how far you move.

Now, SHL and try to move forward during the beginning and the end of the jump. See how far you move.

Now try it retreating. It should be pretty obvious that they're different.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

pfffttt...I short hop double shine because I'm too goods.

SHL is awesome. SHDL is Great. Not a big fan of SHTL (you'd know that if you saw the 8 page topic on AiB with SCOTU and Vista saying SHTL is better than SHDL.) I still haven't received any proof.

 

[soul ark]

you know the funny thing about that is that i dont really have the fingers to do the SHDL

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

will someone pleas capture that replay, i'm debating just having him sned it to me so i can see myself. I dont have a capture card but hell I''ll just record it camera style if i have to.

 

[RPK]

well like I said, SHTL is only good from FAR distances. Itd be f***ing stupid of me to use it when my opponent is within midrange. That is when I go and switch to single laser. When Im retreating I switch to double laser. I just personally think they all 3 of them have their own use.

And for me, they ALL had the same distance. Neither one was shorter then the other. SHTL obviously, you have less control over your jump. But again, thats why I only see it being used from a longer distance when your opponent is out of midrange.

EDIT: I wouldnt mind it if you did that. Just realize that itll have to be 5 hours from now...OFF TO SCHOOL I GO!

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

EDIT: I wouldnt mind it if you did that. Just realize that itll have to be 5 hours from now...OFF TO SCHOOL I GO!

thats fine, I'll add your code now, add mine when you get back and send it, i have some ideas to fix the quality but if it's just to much fail, I'll still see the vid myself and have some more insight into the SHTL.

Edit: where is your brawl friend code at??

 

[RPK]

I took it off my sig a while ago since I stopped playing wifi. It's 2502 0087 4086

 

[soul ark]

after the vid we should wind this up im thinking the next ones would be illusion canceling or SHADing

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

after the vid we should wind this up im thinking the next ones would be illusion canceling or SHADing

agreed, we've pretty much hit all the points of the SHDL.

 

[RPK]

I actually think it should be fox trotting. I think that it's an important part of his game.

EDIT: Cause its just so **** useful. It can easily traverse all of FD really really quickly with just Fox Trots, you can easily go in the other direction almost instant out of it, you can perform basically any move out of it using a true pivot, you can dash dance to fake going the other way, you can use the beginning of it to increase the distance of your pivot wavegrab, you can fox trot away, and pivot wavegrab back towards your opponent. So yeah...I think we should discuss that :3

 

[soul ark]

week 2 is now up for discussion

 

[RPK]

So....Yeah...-points to previous post- Only thing about Fox trotting is that during the trot, you cant shield =\ You can only initiate your shield when your standing, walking or running. A shield cant be put up during a Fox trot. Only at the end of one. Just so you guys know. I think thats its only con, but its kinda a big one.

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

So....Yeah...-points to previous post- Only thing about Fox trotting is that during the trot, you cant shield =\ You can only initiate your shield when your standing, walking or running. A shield cant be put up during a Fox trot. Only at the end of one. Just so you guys know. I think thats its only con, but its kinda a big one.

not the only con,
I do not mean to start some big thing on this
BUT
like all dash animations there is ALWAYS the chance of tripping,
But with tripping in there the risk/reward for fox trotting takes a hit even if it isnt that big of one,
when your dashing that much more ofter the chances of tripping are that much higher.

 

[RPK]

How true...Hm...Anyone got the list on tripping? Ive heard some characters trip more then others and that there is a list. But with Fox trotting though there is a bunch of pros like the ones I have listed above. Plus, it makes you look stupid fast :3

 

[soul ark]

lets talk execution RPK