A-Laon
Smash Master
Totally shameless bump - because there should be at least one ****ing intelligent thread in this forum.
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The Four Aspects of Melee
- Thread starter Wobbles
- Start date
Royal
Smash Apprentice
Post of the year.
Wobbles, please write a DI'ing guide.
Wobbles, please write a DI'ing guide.
Samael_78
Smash Journeyman
wow, very impressive guide. could always use a second opinion on how the game works from a skill level
N1c2k3
Smash Lord
Don't know why I never saw this before. Good stuff man. Extremely informative. I think you rival Hugz when it comes to breaking down stuff on a mental level. Look forward to anything else you have to say. Take care...
A-Laon
Smash Master
Because there aren't enough intellectual posters in Melee discussion to keep it bumped.
Myztek
Smash Ace
It's like the one I wrote a few days ago, only more in-depth. Good job.
ꓰspeon
Sun Pokemon
Wow.
Fantastic.
Simply amazing.
Fantastic.
Simply amazing.
Red Exodus
Smash Master
The only thing that would make this thread perfect is some discussion other than "Hey this is great. This is cool! This is very useful!". We already know this is a good thread, so spamming it with "hey this is great" isn't really going to help it make it better.
Myztek
Smash Ace
I don't have much to add or say, because I agree with pretty much all of it. However, confidence, which I added to my guide last, is a big factor in a person's ability to play well.
Also, the definition of mind games still isn't 100% accurate in my opinion. People tend to confused mind games with prediction. "Mind games" are just strategies. Anyone who's capable of thinking can use mind games. The only kind of person who wouldn't be using mind games is someone who just mashes the c-stick or spams a random move, despite whether it's working well or not, because he or she could care less about actually attempting to play the game with a little bit of thought process behind his or her action(s).
Also, the definition of mind games still isn't 100% accurate in my opinion. People tend to confused mind games with prediction. "Mind games" are just strategies. Anyone who's capable of thinking can use mind games. The only kind of person who wouldn't be using mind games is someone who just mashes the c-stick or spams a random move, despite whether it's working well or not, because he or she could care less about actually attempting to play the game with a little bit of thought process behind his or her action(s).
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
My favorite quite from Ol' Ben right there <3
It's very well applied to this game, also.
jamminjohn
Smash Ace
this is AMAZING! I need to start thinking about spacing more, but not during a real match, hopefully. It'll be PuRe!
My usage of "mindgames" takes into consideration my usage and definition of "tactics," which is understanding moves and the game, and knowing the underlying principles behind your moves. If I didn't have that, then the section on mindgames would incorporate that; I felt it was a necessary distinction and division to make though.
Also note: I will not make a thread about DI until I don't suck terribly at doing it. Although... I guess I could try researching it a bit, if only for my own benefit... :D
Actually, DI should be a hybrid aspect, but like I said, I won't write about it until I can guarantee my advice would be... yknow, useful.
jmic
Smash Ace
I think this is a sticky-worthy thread. It is just so well put together; one of the more useful threads in this forum.
robyextreme
Smash Ace
This was a great.. long, read. But worth it
It's just all the little things in the game that add up to your over all performance, like you're sheik and fox is trying to forward+b onto the stage you could d-smash but if he phantoms that leaves you with nothing, so instead jab and stop him, if he phantoms you still have a oppurtunity to react to it.
Or you're fox and the opponent is sheik you keep dash dancing and he needles on the ground to stop you from a distance trying to pressure you, you realize this the second time and jump over the needle and punish him during the lag time of the ground needle attack.
Such a great guide really opened up a new level I see in smash now. It's 2:47AM I'm crazy, good night and thanks for posting.
It's just all the little things in the game that add up to your over all performance, like you're sheik and fox is trying to forward+b onto the stage you could d-smash but if he phantoms that leaves you with nothing, so instead jab and stop him, if he phantoms you still have a oppurtunity to react to it.
Or you're fox and the opponent is sheik you keep dash dancing and he needles on the ground to stop you from a distance trying to pressure you, you realize this the second time and jump over the needle and punish him during the lag time of the ground needle attack.
Such a great guide really opened up a new level I see in smash now. It's 2:47AM I'm crazy, good night and thanks for posting.
PuRe = 3 frames from screen to controller (1 frame = seeing it, 1 frame=telling fingers to do something, 1 frame = doing it)
ART = -20 frames (+/- move startup)
DiRT = what DiRT?
I prefer to think of myself not as a lvl 10 cpu, but rather a lvl 37 cpu
Great Post!
I've been reading around about improving mindgames (for reasons above) and this is one of the best posts on the topic. Well done.
ART = -20 frames (+/- move startup)
DiRT = what DiRT?
I prefer to think of myself not as a lvl 10 cpu, but rather a lvl 37 cpu
Great Post!
I've been reading around about improving mindgames (for reasons above) and this is one of the best posts on the topic. Well done.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
I read the first post, for the most part, but I haven't read the resulting posts, so it is *possible* albeit INCREDIBLY unlikely that someone has already touched on this, but here goes.
One's reaction time (which you have reffered to as Pure, Art, and Dirt very appropriate acronyms considering, props XD) all will speed up with experience, primarily experience in observing. The more and more you can pinpoint things like your opponents mistakes, your mistakes, your availiable options at a given point, your opponents options at a given point, and etc the easier and easier it all becomes. At first it's a HUGE amount of information that one will see, but the more you observe, the more you can chunk this information into groups. So instead of seeing 50 things, you see 5 sets of 10 things in a chunk a piece. The more you can "chunk" the more you can read at a given time, and the faster you react upon a situation because the information is organized in your mind and what not.
Honestly, my reaction time hasn't changed much at all. You can test this by having someone drop a ruler and catching it. Don't make a habbit of that, cause if you do it all the time it no longer judges reaction time, just how well you can catch falling rulers. Anyways, I can see and react to things MUCH faster now than I used to, and it's all because I can see more clearly than I used to, and I know what to expect most of the time. This never really sped up much, UNTIL I started focusing on observing more in my matches.
A LOT of smashers on these boards don't realize the power that observation plays in high level smash. Often times it becomes clouded with mindgaming, IE: Tipping a player who misses a tech consistently in a match /= mindgames, it's purely being able to observe and react quickly, but this kind of thing happens a lot without tricking an opponent into a mistake, and if people just focused on exploiting mistakes the players make on their own it would push them to the next level of smash. After you do that for a while you start to think differently, like this for example: "Hey, If I grab this CF and just hit him and wait till he lets go and smash, by the time he gets out of the grab and stops mashing buttons to get out I'll have enough time to just smash him and, he'll be flying off to the other side of the screen." A lot of times in heated situations, it works, and in a given situation I think up various different things. I do say though, that without observation you cannot have mindgames, cause to be able to exploit holes in your opponents strategies you must first be truly aware of what the heck they are doing.
Hell I haven't even gone into how observing people in their matches can show their morale, which goes into a whole nother section of mindgaming such as establishing fear and doubt early on to fence your opponent into a mindset that they are powerless.
I would say more, but I don't want to rant, nor do I want to put this in more of an essay type format, cause I'm lazy as hell right now.
One's reaction time (which you have reffered to as Pure, Art, and Dirt very appropriate acronyms considering, props XD) all will speed up with experience, primarily experience in observing. The more and more you can pinpoint things like your opponents mistakes, your mistakes, your availiable options at a given point, your opponents options at a given point, and etc the easier and easier it all becomes. At first it's a HUGE amount of information that one will see, but the more you observe, the more you can chunk this information into groups. So instead of seeing 50 things, you see 5 sets of 10 things in a chunk a piece. The more you can "chunk" the more you can read at a given time, and the faster you react upon a situation because the information is organized in your mind and what not.
Honestly, my reaction time hasn't changed much at all. You can test this by having someone drop a ruler and catching it. Don't make a habbit of that, cause if you do it all the time it no longer judges reaction time, just how well you can catch falling rulers. Anyways, I can see and react to things MUCH faster now than I used to, and it's all because I can see more clearly than I used to, and I know what to expect most of the time. This never really sped up much, UNTIL I started focusing on observing more in my matches.
A LOT of smashers on these boards don't realize the power that observation plays in high level smash. Often times it becomes clouded with mindgaming, IE: Tipping a player who misses a tech consistently in a match /= mindgames, it's purely being able to observe and react quickly, but this kind of thing happens a lot without tricking an opponent into a mistake, and if people just focused on exploiting mistakes the players make on their own it would push them to the next level of smash. After you do that for a while you start to think differently, like this for example: "Hey, If I grab this CF and just hit him and wait till he lets go and smash, by the time he gets out of the grab and stops mashing buttons to get out I'll have enough time to just smash him and, he'll be flying off to the other side of the screen." A lot of times in heated situations, it works, and in a given situation I think up various different things. I do say though, that without observation you cannot have mindgames, cause to be able to exploit holes in your opponents strategies you must first be truly aware of what the heck they are doing.
Hell I haven't even gone into how observing people in their matches can show their morale, which goes into a whole nother section of mindgaming such as establishing fear and doubt early on to fence your opponent into a mindset that they are powerless.
I would say more, but I don't want to rant, nor do I want to put this in more of an essay type format, cause I'm lazy as hell right now.
jon playa
Smash Cadet
An amazing read Wobbles. I've already implemented it into my game, and OWN my circle of friends.
Drephen
Smash Master
all i really do is just spam moves until it work, and somehow win matches lol
BigRick
Smash Master
Screw Honkey Tonk Man, you're my new hero.
ShackDaddy
Smash Ace
what about reaction time? is that kinda important on how fast you see a move coming and react to it? unless thats part of tactical
Thanks for writing this up! I definitely have not thought enough about space control and how it relates to the game. I'm still at the point where I have to think very carefully and consciously about mindgames... But it is getting better, and has helped me though tough wins. Making mindgames analogous to ingraining tech skill into your game more true than people give credit for.
Watching videos of yourself is definitely worth a ton too. I finally have a few up and its definitely helped alot.
This really should be stickied...
My game will owe alot to this article, thanks.
~Kenpachi
Watching videos of yourself is definitely worth a ton too. I finally have a few up and its definitely helped alot.
This really should be stickied...
My game will owe alot to this article, thanks.
~Kenpachi
L_Cancel
Smash Champion
I feel inspired. I realize now, just how much I really need to train, and improve myself. This is probably the most beneficial thread that I have seen so far on Smashboards.com. =]
milkshake33
Smash Apprentice
that combo video is absolutely histerical. thanks wobbles
Binx
Smash Master
Wobbles this thread is awesome It is my favorite article in my entire compilation. Your ICs are too good.
Flarefox
Smash Ace
Sticky, please.
EDIT: This thread is probably the most useful read any Melee player will ever come across.
EDIT: This thread is probably the most useful read any Melee player will ever come across.
Stewie1288
Smash Apprentice
so i'm like a year and change late, but good stuff wobbles. <3
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
supscribed...
ima read later
ima read later
game set
Smash Apprentice
i didn't ever feel like i was playing properly until i began to understand these concepts on my own. Once you apply these to you style your character begins to feel like an extention of the mind. many smashers need to read this.
GAwes
Hidden Boss
hungrybox
Smash Legend
There's one aspect you forgot.
PEOPLE EXPERIENCE.
ask lambchopz
PEOPLE EXPERIENCE.
ask lambchopz
NES n00b
Smash Master
The four demandments of Hulk Hogan:
1. Training
2. Prayers
3. Vitamins
4. And the believing in ourselves.
1. Training
2. Prayers
3. Vitamins
4. And the believing in ourselves.
Shake
Smash Rookie
This should come with every copy of the game
Warhawk
Smash Lord
Its a strange feeling going through a thread that's been inactive for awhile and seeing one of the most recent posts is from NES n00b...
On another note it'd be nice if this thread was stickied or something, because I feel like its a great read from Wobbles and it'd be nice to have it there to read for newer members instead of dropping out of existence and not being there for them to find because of inactivity.
On another note it'd be nice if this thread was stickied or something, because I feel like its a great read from Wobbles and it'd be nice to have it there to read for newer members instead of dropping out of existence and not being there for them to find because of inactivity.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Earth!!!!!!
Grape Ape
Smash Apprentice
Fire!!!!!!
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Air...?
Only, no one said Water in the beginning, so it doesn't work...
In any case, I thought this thread was made recently, until I came to these posts. I'm definitely going to read over what he said.
Only, no one said Water in the beginning, so it doesn't work...
In any case, I thought this thread was made recently, until I came to these posts. I'm definitely going to read over what he said.
Beat!
Smash Master
I don't care if it "doesn't work" or not.
This is the official combo breaker post.
Party's over, everybody can go home etc.
This is the official combo breaker post.
Party's over, everybody can go home etc.