The "Flipman"

[Z1GMA]

The "Flipman"
(Lagless ledge to stage Uair)

What is "Flipman" ?
Ganondorf can't ledge drop -> double jump onto the stage without the help of an aerial attack or a airdodge.
However, ledge hopping an aerial attack to the stage, gives him horrible lag upon landing.

The "Flipman", on the other hand, doesn't give a **** about landning lag!!
It lets Ganon autocancel (sort of) his Uair for the ledge to the stage, allowing him to instantly follow up with anything.

Can I perform it from any ledge?
It works on all ledges except ones that are connected to a passable floor;
like the ones in "Halberd" & "Delfino plaza".

How do I perform it?
Basicly it's performed just like any other characters ledge hop attacks, except this one is much harder.
It takes quickness, very precise timing and smoothness, all at the same time.

1. Ledge drop by gently tilting down (You don't want to FF)
2. Double jump with y/x (directly after the ledge drop)
3. Uair with Up+A (directly after the DJ)
4. DI Up + towards stage (at the same time as you Uair)

Oh my! It's almost like you have to do every step at the same time!
- Well.. almost.

With a little bit of practice you'll soon master it.

Video:
"Flipman"

Bair can also be AC'd to the stage, but it's no way near as effective as Uair,
plus it's way harder to perform: Bair

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I didn't quite understand the "how to do it laglessy method". Care to explain?

 

[Z1GMA]

I didn't quite understand the "how to do it laglessy method". Care to explain?

I will edit the OP some other time. I'm too bussy tonight ;/

Easiest method for me:
Soft ledgedrop with [down] -> DJ with [y/x] -> Uair with [Up+A] -> DI

 

[hyperstation]

god D*MN that's good sh*t Z1GMA. Thanks a ton. I love the flipman -> Gerudo chain you focused on a lot in the video. How demoralizing. The guy on stage should be in a power position whenever Ganon is on the ledge, but with that string, it completely reverses that power dynamic.

When I do a section on ledge to stage aerials in DSL, I'm gonna link to this vid. cool?

PS - I love the name Flipman.

 

[Z1GMA]

When I do a section on ledge to stage aerials in DSL, I'm gonna link to this vid. cool?

That would be an honour.

PS - I love the name Flipman.

Yea, I thought about the "Tipman" when I came up with this name ^^

 

[TP]

This is very good. Well done, Z1GMA.

I loved when you said "Let's put this into action" and then immediately went for Flipman Warlock Punch. >_>

 

[Sgt. Baker]

Wait, was this "flipmam" (ledgehop to u-air) just discovered? I'm lost lol

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I''ve tried to do this so much. I'm gonna get this down ASAP

 

[hyperstation]

Wait, was this "flipmam" (ledgehop to u-air) just discovered? I'm lost lol

The flipman is when you UAir onto the stage from the ledge LAGLESSLY. UAir from the ledge isn't exactly new, but what Z1GMA found here is that with the correct DI, you can essentially AC your landing and set up chains. If you already knew this, more power to you, homie.

 

[Sgt. Baker]

The flipman is when you UAir onto the stage from the ledge LAGLESSLY. UAir from the ledge isn't exactly new, but what Z1GMA found here is that with the correct DI, you can essentially AC your landing and set up chains. If you already knew this, more power to you, homie.

Oh lol. Nah I knew about U-Air from the ledge but now I realized what you guys mean. Wow that's nice I got to go check this out now

 

[hyperstation]

New combo: "Mind Flayer": Flipman -> Gerudo -> Chainchoking

YUCK

 

[deadpoe7]

Holy crap! SO many possibilities for this. I'm smelling a flipman > choke > iDA for some unaware MKs!
And I love the name as well. When you uair offstage, it's the tipman, but when you getting onstage, the flipman. :D

 

[Swoops]

EEEEE, I'm excited. I've started getting this consistently, although not in a real game mind you. The only way to make Ganondorf's edge game perfect is to figure out a way to get rid of the **** RCO lag.

Oh, and I found out that n-air IS a ledge>stage aerial. It requires ridiculous timing but the multi-hit and horizontal range is nice.

 

[Blad01]

WHAT THE **** THIS IS AWESOME O_O

Wow at least a very good option from the ledge... This doesn't have that much range, but wow this looks really good :D !

 

[hyperstation]

Alright, let's get down to business and talk inputs here.

Double jump: X/Y or Tap Jump?

UAir: C-stick or Up+A?

DI: In or In+up at 45 degrees?

 

[Swoops]

Alright, let's get down to business and talk inputs here.

Double jump: X/Y or Tap Jump?

UAir: C-stick or Up+A?

DI: In or In+up at 45 degrees?

DJ: X/Y

U-Air: Up+A

DI: During some point in the u-air, move the control stick into the stage and up. (I guess 45 degrees >.>)

 

[Z1GMA]

I'm not sure why it auto cancels..
I think it has something to do with the ledge sweetspot?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hot **** I had no idea ledgehop U-air autocanceled. I knew you could ledgehop U-air before and had done it once in a match, but never really thought much about it.

This should really improve Ganon's edgecamp options.

 

[:034:]

Holy **** this ***** o_O European Ganons are 2 gud

 

[DLA]

I assume that this is still affected by RCO lag? Man that sucks, this really limit's Flipman's options then. Not to rain on our parade or anything, lol. Nice job though Z1gma.

 

[hyperstation]

I assume that this is still affected by RCO lag? Man that sucks, this really limit's Flipman's options then. Not to rain on our parade or anything, lol. Nice job though Z1gma.

Yep, RCO ***** us on all things ledge related. When I talk about Ledge -> Stage Aerials in DSL, I'm going to break down which options are best depending on whether you've UpB ledge grabbed, Side B ledge grabbed, are < or > 100% damage, etc. There are significantly better options depending on your status. Granted, until we find a way to cancel RCO lag, we're kinda effed, but what are ya gonna do, you know?

 

[:034:]

You don't get RCO lag if you grab the edge with side B, right? So... yeah.

 

[hyperstation]

You don't get RCO lag if you grab the edge with side B, right? So... yeah.

Wrong...c'mon, FD, get yr sh*t together.

You get RCO if you Up B or Side B the ledge. If you Side B the ledge, if the next time you touch the ground follows an Up B or Side B, the landing animation will be cut in about half (ie- it the animation happens really quickly). This will also kill off the RCO lag.

 

[Phazon Warrior]

Nice demo video.

Does it work on all [important] stages?

 

[:034:]

Wrong...c'mon, FD, get yr sh*t together.

You get RCO if you Up B or Side B the ledge. If you Side B the ledge, if the next time you touch the ground follows an Up B or Side B, the landing animation will be cut in about half (ie- it the animation happens really quickly). This will also kill off the RCO lag.

Hmm. I practically always roll or do the <100% ledge attack... Which honestly just *****.

 

[Z1GMA]

Nice demo video.
Does it work on all [important] stages?

I haven't tested it on all stages yet.. but I will.

 

[hyperstation]

Hmm. I practically always roll or do the <100% ledge attack... Which honestly just *****.

What does that have to do with RCO? If you have RCO and you (rick)roll or ledge attack, you will STILL have RCO. I see this SO freaking often in watching Ganon matches and it drives me f*cking crazy. I see a dude get up onto the stage and I'm thinking "well, that dude has RCO...I hope he does something about it" and then I see him jump, miss an attack and get punished horribly as his opponent ***** him during his lag frames.

I am really good at handling my RCO and I will rarely get punished for it. It's not hard to deal with. I will have to cover this during my write up about Ledge -> Stage aerials because it drives me crazy to see so many people screwing this up time and time again even after we've gone over this like a million times.

And finally, if you're using <100% ledge attack practically always, then your opponents just suck. I love the ledge attack just as much as you do, but if you just powershield (or hell, even just regular shield it), Ganon's eating a shield grab or a jab and he's back on the ledge. Seems like I need to do this write up now more than ever. Ganon NEEDS to get better on the ledge, and I'm going to facilitate that change.

</rant>

 

[Blad01]

So about RCO lag... If I understand this right, we should use these options :

• Ledge Jump > Immediate Side B
• Ledge Jump > Up B > Land on a platform
• Drop > Up B > Land on a platform
• Recover with what you want > Use Aerial Side B

So these options with cut off 50% of your landing land AND get rid of the RCO lag. But if you use another aerial (even AC Aerial like Dair ?), you will have lag x2.

 

[hyperstation]

So about RCO lag... If I understand this right, we should use these options :

• Ledge Jump > Immediate Side B
• Ledge Jump > Up B > Land on a platform
• Drop > Up B > Land on a platform
• Recover with what you want > Use Aerial Side B

So these options with cut off 50% of your landing land AND get rid of the RCO lag. But if you use another aerial (even AC Aerial like Dair ?), you will have lag x2.

(Sorry I'm driving your topic so OFF topic, Z1GMA, but this is the last post I'll make here regarding RCO before I just make the write up we clearly need.)

Blad, some of the options you listed are indeed viable options for getting rid of RCO. It's not anywhere near that simple, though. I'd say most often I kill RCO by simply SHing and landing out of range of my opponent. If I get up on stage with RCO, I'll take note of that, and I simply won't jump until I can do so safely. I eat my 16 frames of landing lag in privacy. There are so many other options for this though. Take, for example this:

Ledge drop -> stage scar your opponent with a UAir, knocking them back, then ledge drop -> AD onto stage. You got rid of the RCO while your opponent was knocked out of range.

This is another example I'll use a lot.

 

[Z1GMA]

So far I've been able to AC uair and Bair:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqf3yBjgOKc&feature=channel_page

Please help by trying this out and see if his other airials can be AC'd too..

 

[Z1GMA]

OP edited !
I tried to explain more in detail how to perform it correctly.

 

[Dragoomba]

Pass through floors.

Hmm, if you can do it on Smashville, you can do it on BF I would assume too, right?

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I'm try this some tomorrow, this is still ridiculous. I'm still getting the iDJ from the ledge down.
I will be happy with myself if I can just get some ledge techs down.

 

[Z1GMA]

Hmm, if you can do it on Smashville, you can do it on BF I would assume too, right?

Yea.. both have solid base platforms.

 

[hyperstation]

Nice update, Z1GMA. I don't want to be a stickler, but there's a semantic issue in the OP, though. You say that Ganon can't "ledge hop" without using an aerial. I think you mean ledge drop -> double jump. Ledge hopping is different. Just to avoid any potential confusion, I suppose.

 

[Z1GMA]

Nice update, Z1GMA. I don't want to be a stickler, but there's a semantic issue in the OP, though. You say that Ganon can't "ledge hop" without using an aerial. I think you mean ledge drop -> double jump. Ledge hopping is different. Just to avoid any potential confusion, I suppose.

Ok, thx! edited..

My english suck; I need all the help I can get.
Let me know if there are more confusions.
Preferably PM me to keep this thread from becoming a grammar lesson >_>

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I'm trying soo hard this is frustrating, I follow the steps but it's not working for me.
alright I got it, lightly move the control stick down to drop and then press X/Y to jump immediately and then up and A.
I'm not even getting on the ledge.
Am I just completely wrong on the timing?
Or am I really really slow on the timing?

EDIT*
I can get on the stage with 2/3 speed but I'm not lagless

I'm tapping down and just enough forward so I drop and not do the get up motion

 

[hyperstation]

I'm trying soo hard this is frustrating, I follow the steps but it's not working for me.
alright I got it, lightly move the control stick down to drop and then press X/Y to jump immediately and then up and A.
I'm not even getting on the ledge.
Am I just completely wrong on the timing?
Or am I really really slow on the timing?

I'm going to GUESS that your DI is poor. You kinda need to push the DI more into the stage than up.

 

[MoblinMan]

I'm bumping this because it's obviously the hardest Ganon tech evar.

But god **** does it look like some of us need to incorporate it. I haven't seen even one ganon do this on any matches on youtube, OR irl.

I played the best MK I've ever played yesterday, and the hardest thing was getting back from the ledge. getup attacks are way too laggy, jumping and rolling on gets predictable also. Simply pressing forward doesn't give you the cover you need. After bumping this, I'm going to give it a shot and try to contribute to all the other Ganons that NEED TO GET THIS DOWN.

I'm assuming DAD's gone, cuz this isn't even in his smash lab. It's also not in the "compact list of Ganon techs" thread if my CTRL+F is working correctly.

 

[PK-ow!]

I'm bumping this because it's obviously the hardest Ganon tech evar.

But god **** does it look like some of us need to incorporate it. I haven't seen even one ganon do this on any matches on youtube, OR irl.

I played the best MK I've ever played yesterday, and the hardest thing was getting back from the ledge. getup attacks are way too laggy, jumping and rolling on gets predictable also. Simply pressing forward doesn't give you the cover you need. After bumping this, I'm going to give it a shot and try to contribute to all the other Ganons that NEED TO GET THIS DOWN.

Here's the problem, Moblem Moblin.

If you screw up Flipman on any stage with an underside, you have to take your **** time to Up-B or you will gimp yourself. During this **** ****, you will be gimped. So basically, you can't risk doing this because you will be gimped. You should believe you don't see anyone do this irl, because we can't take this out there until we do, perfectly master it.

Maybe in money matches. I can't MM though 'cause I have none.


And two, Flipman doesn't help you get out of RCO.

If RCO didn't exist, Flipman would be the biggest contributor to Ganon's meta today. That is 100% true. But RCO is there. And that means that even when you flipman up, if you don't hit the opponent, you're going to eat it, and then you have to play the save Ganon's heavy *** mini-game all over again.

I'm assuming DAD's gone, cuz this isn't even in his smash lab. It's also not in the "compact list of Ganon techs" thread if my CTRL+F is working correctly.

It isn't? Man. Okay can you post something about that in the thread as a reminder to me?