Meta "The Final Content" [1.1.4] Patch Discussion

[Gunla]

The additional defensive hitbox references have been removed and the regular hitboxes have been swapped for 1/2.

 

[S_B]

I want to know who can look at Jigglypuff and Zelda and say, "oh yeah, that's fine. They're fine."

...Sakurai?

But seriously, he's said that SSB4 development is over. I'm not sure if he means there are NO balance patches coming ever again or if there's simply no more new content.

If no more patches, then RIP competitive chances of 3/4th of the cast. :\

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the NX SSB turns out to be a SSB4 "Complete" with all the DLC, a few more characters, and some more balance adjustments.

 

[Player -0]

He said he was going on extended vacation and was done so doesn't sound good for patches.

I can't imagine they'd keep Corrin's infinite thing in so idk though

 

[S_B]

He said he was going on extended vacation and was done so doesn't sound good for patches.

I can't imagine they'd keep Corrin's infinite thing in so idk though

I'm not convinced they need Sakurai to balance things, though. In fact, given that he was wondering why no one uses Fsmashes (even though they're horribly unsafe and lose to shield) and instead rely upon safer moves like aerials, I'm not sure how much balancing Sakurai was doing at all...

I guess we'll just have to wait and see if they release another patch or not. Namco knows how to balance fighting games and, if Brawl is any indication, Sakurai doesn't.

 

[gugus294]

I don't know all the numbers and stuff, but I'm pretty sure that either Ganondorf's up special got more vertical range, or he is just able to grab the ledge from further away. I'm definitely able to recover from noticeably further below the ledge than previously.

 

[UberMadman]

The additional defensive hitbox references have been removed and the regular hitboxes have been swapped for 1/2.

Actually, according to @rrrRandy 's post, the patch notes are still incorrect, as a lot of the values are still swapped, unless I'm reading this wrong.

@rrrRandy 's post:

Usmash:

• Usmash First Hit:
  • Aerial Hit X Position: 10.5 -> 11.0
  • Ground Hit:
    • Hitbox 1:
      • Bone swapped with previous Hitbox 2 (equivalent to swapping the two hitboxes in priority)
      • 1.1.3 Hitbox 2 X/Z Position -> 1.1.4 Hitbox 1 X/Z Position: 4.2/3.2 -> 2.5/1.5
      • 1.1.3 Hitbox 2 WBKB -> 1.1.4 Hitbox 1 WBKB: 40 -> 30
      • 1.1.3 Hitbox 2 Angle -> 1.1.4 Hitbox 1 Angle: 100 -> 140
      • 1.1.3 Hitbox 2 Size -> 1.1.4 Hitbox 1 Size: 5 -> 4.2
    • Hitbox 2:
      • 1.1.3 Hitbox 1 X/Y Position -> 1.1.4 Hitbox 2 X/Y Position: 1/2 -> 4/-1.5
    • Hitbox 3:
      • Angle: 270 -> 280
      • Size: 4 -> 5
• Usmash Second Hit:
  • Hitbox 1/2/3 KBG: 105/103/101 -> 107/107/107

The Patch notes:

• Usmash:
  • Usmash First Hit:
    • Aerial Hit X Positiion: 10.5 -> 11.0
    • Ground Hit:
      • Hitbox 1:
        • Bone swapped with previous Hitbox 2 (swaps the priority of the two hitboxes)
        • Hitbox X/Z Position: 2.5/1.5 -> 2/3.2
        • Angle: 140 -> 100
        • KB: 30 -> 40
        • Size: 5.0 -> 4.2
      • Hitbox 2:
        • Hitbox X/Y Position: 4/-1.5 -> 2/1
      • Hitbox 3:
        • Angle: 280 -> 270
        • Size: 4 -> 5
  • Usmash Second Hit:
    • Hitbox 1 KBG: 107 -> 105
    • Hitbox 2 KBG: 107 -> 103
    • Hitbox 3 KBG: 107 -> 101

I've bolded and underlined the spots where the two posts appear to contradict each other, though I removed the parts that @rrrRandy striked out since they were already removed from the patch notes. Basically, other than the Aerial X position of hitbox 1, the bone swap between hitbox 1 and 2, and the size changes to hitboxes 1 and 3, these two seem to have their values swapped. However, I do fully admit I might be reading this wrong, so I apologize if this is a non-contribution.

 

[Piford]

Did they change the amount of SDI in the game. I noticed people falling out of a lot more moves, and I could SDI out of moves that wouldn't work previously.

 

[Linkshot]

Did they change the amount of SDI in the game. I noticed people falling out of a lot more moves, and I could SDI out of moves that wouldn't work previously.

I still haven't been able to escape Duck Hunt's rapid jab, for what it's worth

 

[Methacrylate]

Actually, according to @rrrRandy 's post, the patch notes are still incorrect, as a lot of the values are still swapped, unless I'm reading this wrong.

@rrrRandy 's post:

Usmash:

• Usmash First Hit:
  • Aerial Hit X Position: 10.5 -> 11.0
  • Ground Hit:
    • Hitbox 1:
      • Bone swapped with previous Hitbox 2 (equivalent to swapping the two hitboxes in priority)
      • 1.1.3 Hitbox 2 X/Z Position -> 1.1.4 Hitbox 1 X/Z Position: 4.2/3.2 -> 2.5/1.5
      • 1.1.3 Hitbox 2 WBKB -> 1.1.4 Hitbox 1 WBKB: 40 -> 30
      • 1.1.3 Hitbox 2 Angle -> 1.1.4 Hitbox 1 Angle: 100 -> 140
      • 1.1.3 Hitbox 2 Size -> 1.1.4 Hitbox 1 Size: 5 -> 4.2
    • Hitbox 2:
      • 1.1.3 Hitbox 1 X/Y Position -> 1.1.4 Hitbox 2 X/Y Position: 1/2 -> 4/-1.5
    • Hitbox 3:
      • Angle: 270 -> 280
      • Size: 4 -> 5
• Usmash Second Hit:
  • Hitbox 1/2/3 KBG: 105/103/101 -> 107/107/107

The Patch notes:

• Usmash:
  • Usmash First Hit:
    • Aerial Hit X Positiion: 10.5 -> 11.0
    • Ground Hit:
      • Hitbox 1:
        • Bone swapped with previous Hitbox 2 (swaps the priority of the two hitboxes)
        • Hitbox X/Z Position: 2.5/1.5 -> 2/3.2
        • Angle: 140 -> 100
        • KB: 30 -> 40
        • Size: 5.0 -> 4.2
      • Hitbox 2:
        • Hitbox X/Y Position: 4/-1.5 -> 2/1
      • Hitbox 3:
        • Angle: 280 -> 270
        • Size: 4 -> 5
  • Usmash Second Hit:
    • Hitbox 1 KBG: 107 -> 105
    • Hitbox 2 KBG: 107 -> 103
    • Hitbox 3 KBG: 107 -> 101

I've bolded and underlined the spots where the two posts appear to contradict each other, though I removed the parts that @rrrRandy striked out since they were already removed from the patch notes. Basically, other than the Aerial X position of hitbox 1, the bone swap between hitbox 1 and 2, and the size changes to hitboxes 1 and 3, these two seem to have their values swapped. However, I do fully admit I might be reading this wrong, so I apologize if this is a non-contribution.

Gunla , UberMadman is right the numbers should be swapped. Somewhere along the way when working up my original post, I flipped the removal and additions columns in my mind... looks like it happened fairly early too... curse my left-handedness. I apologize for the error, should have caught that one earlier before it made it into the OP.

 

[Tenhart]

Did they change the amount of SDI in the game. I noticed people falling out of a lot more moves, and I could SDI out of moves that wouldn't work previously.

I had noticed that too, I thought maybe it was the tentative alterations that were made to certain characters, but if its something universal or between a lot of characters it seems so.

 

[Lavani]

SDI seems exactly the same to me.

 

[Gunla]

Gunla , UberMadman is right the numbers should be swapped. Somewhere along the way when working up my original post, I flipped the removal and additions columns in my mind... looks like it happened fairly early too... curse my left-handedness. I apologize for the error, should have caught that one earlier before it made it into the OP.

It's k. As long as we end up with the right values, it's all good.

Charizard's data has been fixed. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[LancerStaff]

So basically the only changes you suggest is to remove reference to the defensive hitboxes and flip hitboxes 1 and 2 of the first hit. I am fine with both. I did say in my original post that I assumed it was intangibility.

Here is a list of characters with defensive hitboxes:

Greninja
Bowser
Link
Charizard
Lucina
Marth
Toon Link
Metaknight
Mii Swordsman
Pit
Dark Pit
Roy
Sheik

The defensive hitboxes almost always have the same X/Y coordinates as the actual hitboxes. I assumed it was intangibility due to the its presence on certain moves such as Sheik's upb.

Mind sharing what moves have the hitboxes? The Pits' especially because that's what I know.

 

[DJlive]

Could someone confirm if Little Mac's up b height got buffed? We were checking it and the height seems to have changed.

 

[Masonomace]

Could someone confirm if Little Mac's up b height got buffed? We were checking it and the height seems to have changed.

I checked it with my custom stage testing. Little Mac's Rising Uppercut has the same platform heights. What lead you guys to seem it got buffed if you don't mind me asking?

 

[GrownManJones]

I checked it with my custom stage testing. Little Mac's Rising Uppercut has the same platform heights. What lead you guys to seem it got buffed if you don't mind me asking?

Because he/she just wanted to be apart of the discussion like 50% of this topics post. We all saw the smash doc and now everyone thinks they are instantly apart of the community and are here to "help" even if they have no idea whats going on.

I mean day after day people say stuff like "I think Samus is good! People just need more time with her!" or "Can this person win a tournament? I need to know before I switch mains" even though they will never go to a tournament in their life. You know **** that makes no sense at all. Personally I like reading the stuff though, always a laugh.

 

[Player -0]

lmao what kind of elitism/noob shaming is this? Yeah, some people act like they know more than they do when they don't but that hasn't been the prevalent case in this thread.

Yeah it's a tad annoying when people ask to get something checked when looking for things that are being tested but it's not like you're using your time to contribute either.

Also generalizing groups is typically never a good idea.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Because he/she just wanted to be apart of the discussion like 50% of this topics post. We all saw the smash doc and now everyone thinks they are instantly apart of the community and are here to "help" even if they have no idea whats going on.

I mean day after day people say stuff like "I think Samus is good! People just need more time with her!" or "Can this person win a tournament? I need to know before I switch mains" even though they will never go to a tournament in their life. You know **** that makes no sense at all. Personally I like reading the stuff though, always a laugh.

As far as I'm concerned, if they play Smash and they come here to learn more about it, they are part of the community. Just because people don't go to tournaments doesn't mean they don't matter. Some people do ladders. Some people play exclusively online. Some people just want to beat their friends. Whatever. I mean, we can be all "DON'T TOUCH ME, YOU FILTHY CASUAL" about it but the simple truth is that a big portion of the Smash community is casual players who, if they are competitive, will probably never go to a tournament bigger than a local game shop and that's perfectly okay. If they're wrong, that's that but the bottom line is that they still wanted to contribute and it doesn't hurt anyone because there's plenty of people here who can correct them if they are wrong.

 

[JohnKnight416]

Assuming you haven't checked when I tagged you there... Please take this to this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/4br-tier-list-v1-0-competitive-impressions.429826/, the Link boards, or even a PM. Patch-related discussion should be here while competitive, MU, Link, and other discussions should be taken elsewhere.

I just looked at the thread and I just want to say that I prefer to judge the tier list mostly by my experiences against whatever character I go up against on FG

 

[Ffamran]

I just looked at the thread and I just want to say that I only judge the tier list mainly by my experiences against the characters I go up against on FG

Not the point and I don't want to sound rude, but I don't care. The point is that this thread is dedicated to discussing the patch. For example, noting damage changes, knockback changes, or how bug fixes or changes to moves affect that game like if Falco can't D-throw ledge spike people, then a situation and buggy thing was removed. Character discussion goes elsewhere.

 

[DJlive]

I checked it with my custom stage testing. Little Mac's Rising Uppercut has the same platform heights. What lead you guys to seem it got buffed if you don't mind me asking?

A friend of mine couldn't recover as high as before with him. We thought it may be a placebo but just in case, we wanted it to be tested for him. I guess placebo was right, thanks!

 

[KakuCP9]

I have a question. In the previous patch, Lucario's Aura sphere charge had it's hitlag and KBG reduced to fix the shieldbreak stuff, but nerfed some its conversions in the process such as ASC-->bair and ASC-->dair (early percents). In the current patch, the ASC combos as it did before 1.1.3, but the dataminers say nothing has changed. Could it be a small change in the engine or no one has checked Luc's files thoroughly yet?

The comparison can be seen here (not mine, 3ds=1.1.3, wii u= 1.1.4)

Edit: Nvm. The 3ds footage was completly unpatched. (1.0.0)

 

[Quarium]

One thing that has been bugging me (saw it on stream recently with ANTi vs Ninjalink and has happened in a couple local matches with my friends as well.) is people somehow getting out of Cloud's fsmash before the third hit lands, succesfully surviviing even at kill percents... I have not seen this happen before in the previous patchso I thought I would share.

Here's the footage of the grandfinals video, timestamped to the moment I meant:

Mind you this has happened with me and my friends too, even with the opponent being somewhat closer to the center of the hitbox.

 

[Masonomace]

A friend of mine couldn't recover as high as before with him. We thought it may be a placebo but just in case, we wanted it to be tested for him. I guess placebo was right, thanks!

I can see what you guys could of meant. Inputting a Rising Uppercut on its own recovers poorly off-stage in the air whereas it vertically goes higher from standing on the ground. However, if you input a mid-air jump & immediately Rising Uppercut, the UpB goes much higher. This can usually occur if one has tap jump on & they try to tap up on the joystick followed quickly by pressing B during their low recovery attempt. If walls are a factor, then I'd assume that a walljump input followed by a quick UpB press with tap jump on will make it go higher too.

 

[shadowmm151]

Okay here's a question. I've seen many posts on this thread about some upB recoveries maybe going higher. I was sure it was placebo and I checked on my custom stage with platforms and I confirmed it was placebo. Others beat me to it and verified no changes in the thread. Okay cool right? Except these same posts keep popping up again and again, and over the course of the week I've seen recoveries (like Little Mac's and Falco's) seeming to reach from much farther. I'm positive it's placebo, since the upBs don't reach different platforms.

But here's my question: Is it possible that maybe the ledge grab range has increased for some of these characters? Would this data be in the character's data? Would it be in a global change folder? Would it be in something else entirely?

Or is it all just placebo and we're all just practically begging to find some change?!

 

[Fatmanonice]

One thing that has been bugging me (saw it on stream recently with ANTi vs Ninjalink and has happened in a couple local matches with my friends as well.) is people somehow getting out of Cloud's fsmash before the third hit lands, succesfully surviviing even at kill percents... I have not seen this happen before in the previous patchso I thought I would share.

Here's the footage of the grandfinals video, timestamped to the moment I meant:

Mind you this has happened with me and my friends too, even with the opponent being somewhat closer to the center of the hitbox.

This has been a problem continuously throughout this game, characters falling out of multi hit attacks. There are too many examples of this to list that have been patched in the past year and a half but, even in this last patch, characters falling out of Falco's usmash and Toon Link's fsmash was addressed. It could be argued that this is still an issue for many other multi hit attacks in the game including Game and Watch's, Bowser Jr's, and Dedede's jab.

 

[Yikarur]

For Pit at least his fsmash acts differently if you hit an air target. Clouds first hit fsmash behaves the same so it might have something to do with that.
Those fsmashes are only guaranteed on grounded targets.

 

[NotEvenAmatueR]

Okay. What are we doing? There is still work to be done. 2 more characters. We're so close. Cmon guys.

 

[Loota]

All multihits were never meant to link 100% of the time in all situations so what is it with people expecting like they should? It's always been a natural property of the moves that they require proper spacing to hit all the way through, not vacuum the opponent in for a short cinematic of him getting hit. There's definitely been a lot of examples of a move not linking more often than linking even with good spacing (which to my knowledge have been pretty much patched), but that Cloud's fsmash vid above seems completely normal to me.

 

[LancerStaff]

Cloud's Fsmash is three hits and a higher (?) hitlag multiplier. Pit's is two with surprisingly normal hitlag. It's not incredibly unrealistic to think somebody could escape Cloud's Fsmash where with Pit you're probably not intentionally making a difference to where if it links or not. And of course with Pit's Fsmash he has better options for finishing somebody in situations Fsmash would fail, namely Usmash if you're trying to catch a landing. Cloud doesn't have any powerful, long lasting hitboxes outside of limit so he probably wishes it worked better.

Of course I'm pretty sure neither move was touched so I don't think it really belongs in a patch topic...

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Okay. What are we doing? There is still work to be done. 2 more characters. We're so close. Cmon guys.

Have a little patience, bud. They'll get it done in their own time.

Smooth Criminal

 

[John12346]

Files data/animcmd/item/takamaru/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/item/takamaru/game.bin differ

So, among the Cloud and Wii Fit changes we're still waiting on, do we know what this mysterious change to Takamaru was?

 

[LRodC]

Are the Cloud and Wii Fit changes possibly even that different or even relevant? If it's taking this long to find them, I doubt they're of that much importance.

 

[Aninymouse]

Are the Cloud and Wii Fit changes possibly even that different or even relevant? If it's taking this long to find them, I doubt they're of that much importance.

I could be wrong, but I'm not sure people have been looking for the changes this entire time. The people who have PCs (unlike myself) and the tools and know-how might just be busy or uninterested. Or maybe I'm totally wrong, who knows? Only they know.

So, among the Cloud and Wii Fit changes we're still waiting on, do we know what this mysterious change to Takamaru was?

Since it's an assist trophy... not sure anyone will care. Not sure I care. So long as Takamaru works OK when I pick up an assist trophy in Classic mode, I'm happy.

 

[GrownManJones]

As far as I'm concerned, if they play Smash and they come here to learn more about it, they are part of the community. Just because people don't go to tournaments doesn't mean they don't matter. Some people do ladders. Some people play exclusively online. Some people just want to beat their friends. Whatever. I mean, we can be all "DON'T TOUCH ME, YOU FILTHY CASUAL" about it but the simple truth is that a big portion of the Smash community is casual players who, if they are competitive, will probably never go to a tournament bigger than a local game shop and that's perfectly okay. If they're wrong, that's that but the bottom line is that they still wanted to contribute and it doesn't hurt anyone because there's plenty of people here who can correct them if they are wrong.

I didn't call him/her a filthy casual. That's you making a connection I never did. I was answering Masonomace's question truthfully because I knew no one would answer it correctly and you, a mod, proved me right. The patch has been out for days. There have been found and confirmed Little Mac buffs. Obviously something as big as improved recovery would have been found before his other things. If you think about this for one second you will know I'm right.

But ok Mr.Mod stick up for the person that didn't put one second of thought into his/her post and call him/her community. Praise them for posting something and contributing "Could someone confirm if Little Mac's up b height got buffed?" instead of saying hey man that makes no sense and here is why. You are just happy they are posting regardless of the content. No it's not harmful but it's not helpful either and I was honestly answering a question no one else would answer. This board was WAY more vulgar years ago and it was much better then.

 

[FUEGO!]

Was Thinkaman around for this patch note party? Last patch, his data mining within the first few hours gave us all of the info we needed and the notes were done within like 3 days.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Are the Cloud and Wii Fit changes possibly even that different or even relevant? If it's taking this long to find them, I doubt they're of that much importance.

We've already ruled out the possibility of hitbox changes, endlag changes, and base stat changes for Cloud and WFT. The only possibilities that remain are visual effects or something even less relevant than bug fixing I-frames for trip-related actions. I hate to be a broken record, but we really shouldn't make the assumption that there is anything at all to find in the first place. Every patch delivers unknown parameter changes. And when one or two remain unknown for this long, it's not because "nobody cares". It's because we've reached the end of the road for things to look at days ago.

 

[LRodC]

We've already ruled out the possibility of hitbox changes, endlag changes, and base stat changes for Cloud and WFT. The only possibilities that remain are visual effects or something even less relevant than bug fixing I-frames for trip-related actions. I hate to be a broken record, but we really shouldn't make the assumption that there is anything at all to find in the first place. Every patch delivers unknown parameter changes. And when one or two remain unknown for this long, it's not because "nobody cares". It's because we've reached the end of the road for things to look at days ago.

If no changes were to exist, why were some characters like Jigglypuff and Mewtwo ruled out immediately but Cloud and WFT still are an enigma? I would think that would mean there would be some kind of change, even if it's extremely minor.

 

[Thinkaman]

Was Thinkaman around for this patch note party? Last patch, his data mining within the first few hours gave us all of the info we needed and the notes were done within like 3 days.

Unfortunately, due to various circumstances, I had no Internet for an extended period.

 

[FUEGO!]

Unfortunately, due to various circumstances, I had no Internet for an extended period.

I am glad it was something that can be fixed and not a silent retreat from the community, we <3 you.