Meta "The Final Content" [1.1.4] Patch Discussion

[Mario766]

Shiek's vanish explosion nerf?

Knockback growth 104 -> 102, Size 14 -> 13

Noted in patch notes, but yes. Vanish nerf.

Also Ike's up-air got a pretty large KBG nerf

To slightly offset the massive BKB buff which makes it the monster it is now.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Shiek's vanish explosion nerf?

That's kbg 104 -> 102, but what is the 14 -> 13 change? Hitbox size seems to be the current theory, but it's best to be sure.

It's also interesting to note that, upon a closer examination of Sheik's Master Core file, all of the hitboxes for Gale and Abyss seem to be in the main (unchanged) Sheik file whereas this file only contains data for default Vanish.

 

[Mario766]

It's hitbox size. It's already in the patch notes thread LOL. It's the only thing that makes sense.

 

[Sammi Husky]

It's hitbox size. It's already in the patch notes thread LOL. It's the only thing that makes sense.

It is hitbox size yea, i updated my post to reflect that.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Noted in patch notes, but yes. Vanish nerf.

Also Ike's up-air got a pretty large KBG nerf

To slightly offset the massive BKB buff which makes it the monster it is now.

Ike's uair isn't changed; it has 0x5E kbg in both the last patch and this one.

 

[Ffamran]

No one noticed that before (or at least came forward), that's surprising. And how much later will it kill?

Considering the last hit does 4%, probably much later, but since she still has her ladder of doom, probably irrelevant since she cares more about setting it up rather than its raw kill power.

 

[Mario766]

Ike's uair isn't changed; it has 0x5E kbg in both the last patch and this one.

Previous patches, back when it got the KBG/BKB change.

Also for Up-B

It's more easily DIable, and kills later.

Double whammy.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Looking at it, the 50 to 48 is definitely an angle change.

I believe you are correct about this.

 

[Sammi Husky]

Toonlink~ Beware, it looks like much more than it is. They inserted some new scripts and because of that all the indexes below it get changed.

The changes i can see are that both standard up-special and custom 3's startup animations are now running a frame speed multiplier of .6. That and both hits of fsmash got changed quite a lot

 

[Vipermoon]

ZSS nerf: not going to matter as much as you think because this does nothing about the real issue which is Boost Kick with rage (they fly out before the final hit and die off the top at super early %s like how Nairo took Zero's last stock at MLG)

Ike range increase: I am confused on the X and Y-axis. Ike got his hitbox moved along the Y-axis while Marth got his hitbox moved along the X-axis. So why did it increase horizontal range for both characters the same way? Or should Marth's be Y and X was a mistake?

 

[Psychoace]

Soo any change to falcon?? Shinyquagsire notes some alterations for him but his damage on his moves seem the same. Were they cosmetic?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Soo any change to falcon?? Shinyquagsire notes some alterations for him but his damage on his moves seem the same. Were they cosmetic?

The only change to Falcon is some final smash thing as far as we can tell. There are no other changes in his script at least (parameters aren't being checked right now).

 

[Mario766]

ZSS nerf: not going to matter as much as you think because this does nothing about the real issue which is Boost Kick with rage (they fly out before the final hit and die off the top at super early %s like how Nairo took Zero's last stock at MLG)

Ike range increase: I am confused on the X and Y-axis. Ike got his hitbox moved along the Y-axis while Marth got his hitbox moved along the X-axis. So why did it increase horizontal range for both characters the same way? Or should Marth's be Y and X was a mistake?

Y means Ragnell, in this situation. Aka it hits longer in general. F-Air hits longer than the sword trail now, basically.

 

[Vipermoon]

Y means Ragnell, in this situation. Aka it hits longer in general. F-Air hits longer than the sword trail now, basically.

But why does Y mean Ragnell and X means Falchion? They got the same change. The axis has to be the same. They are both the swords.

Sammi Husky Are Marth's tipper changes X or Y?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

But why does Y mean Ragnell and X means Falchion? They got the same change. The axis has to be the same. They are both the swords.

Sammi Husky Are Marth's tipper changes X or Y?

ike's hitboxes are actually attached to his sword, marth's are not.

 

[petove]

All tether grabs seem to have got the lucas treat.
Also, villager's upb has less fuel for sure

 

[Mario766]

But why does Y mean Ragnell and X means Falchion? They got the same change. The axis has to be the same. They are both the swords.

Sammi Husky Are Marth's tipper changes X or Y?

Don't ask me man. I don't even look up the code.

But Ike's F-Air arc is longer, meaning the hitbox starts higher, and ends lower. This makes the blindspot Ike had with SH AC F-Air basically gone, making it a viable neutral option.

 

[Vipermoon]

ike's hitboxes are actually attached to his sword, marth's are not.

Most of Marth's are attached to his sword, just like Ike.

Don't ask me man. I don't even look up the code.

But Ike's F-Air arc is longer, meaning the hitbox starts higher, and ends lower. This makes the blindspot Ike had with SH AC F-Air basically gone, making it a viable neutral option.

You replied to my initial question. I knew what Ike's change was, don't know why you replied lol.

 

[Mario766]

Yeah mb.

I'm still in shock that Ike got anything close to this much this patch.

 

[Vipermoon]

Yeah mb.

I'm still in shock that Ike got anything close to this much this patch.

With an even stronger kill confirm combined with 1.5 more units to work with and this new angle on Nair... I think Ike's a bigger winner than Marth in this patch. Congrats. Marth didn't receive any kill confirm.

 

[Mario766]

With an even stronger kill confirm combined with 1.5 more units to work with and this new angle on Nair... I think Ike's a bigger winner than Marth in this patch. Congrats. Marth didn't receive any kill confirm.

New angle on N-Air, the extra damage sets up D-Tilt on fast fallers at 0, leading to free 30 percent conversions. F-Air is basically godlike, and will hit even better + kill earlier.

F-Air SH AC has neutral use against characters that aren't super short like Olimar, as it'll actually hit them.

I dunno whether to thank Japan, or try to figure out if they need brain surgery for thinking Ike was a low tier.

 

[Lavani]

Ike range increase: I am confused on the X and Y-axis. Ike got his hitbox moved along the Y-axis while Marth got his hitbox moved along the X-axis. So why did it increase horizontal range for both characters the same way? Or should Marth's be Y and X was a mistake?

When the hitboxes are tied to a bone, XYZ coordinates correspond to that bone's natural facing. So the way the game's seeing it, the sword blades are oriented like so:

This is also why we've had attacks get horizontal/vertical range increases in previous patches despite only the Z axis changing on a given hitbox.

 

[Vipermoon]

When the hitboxes are tied to a bone, XYZ coordinates correspond to that bone's natural facing. So the way the game's seeing it, the sword blades are oriented like so:

This is also why we've had attacks get horizontal/vertical range increases in previous patches despite only the Z axis changing on a given hitbox.

You're a lifesaver.

 

[Yikarur]

Very early someone stated Yoshi had changes to some file. Was that a lie?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Very early someone stated Yoshi had changes to some file. Was that a lie?

It's to one of his parameters, seems like nobody knows how to check them though :/

I probably could if I were at home, but I'm not.

 

[S_B]

Thanks, sounds a lot like Brawl.

Going through Bowser...

Side-B 1 has a larger grabbox and is horizontally a little further out from Bowser's body. A similar change was made for the aerial version, and there are no changes to either custom.

Uthrow kbg 0x9B -> 0xB4. Do remember that since kbg is multiplied by damage in formulas and that Bowser's final hit of uthrow only does 2% damage that this change isn't as big as it seems.

Dash attack damage 10% (early) / 8% (late) -> 12% (early) / 10% (late).

It looks like that's it for script changes to Bowser.

Can you elaborate further on the Side+B changes?

It appears that it might have been a correction to the close up blind spot Bowser has with his side+B where it whiffed point blank. Is there any way to know for sure how much it expanded and where?

 

[Lavani]

Can you elaborate further on the Side+B changes?

It appears that it might have been a correction to the close up blind spot Bowser has with his side+B where it whiffed point blank. Is there any way to know for sure how much it expanded and where?

The size of all four hitboxes were each increased one unit, and the furthest hitbox was moved away another half unit.

So basically "everywhere, but slightly more forward than other directions"

 

[Yikarur]

It's to one of his parameters, seems like nobody knows how to check them though :/

I probably could if I were at home, but I'm not.

Someone should do it then Any volunteers?

 

[TTTTTsd]

New angle on N-Air, the extra damage sets up D-Tilt on fast fallers at 0, leading to free 30 percent conversions. F-Air is basically godlike, and will hit even better + kill earlier.

F-Air SH AC has neutral use against characters that aren't super short like Olimar, as it'll actually hit them.

I dunno whether to thank Japan, or try to figure out if they need brain surgery for thinking Ike was a low tier.

While I don't think it'll make him suddenly jump up further than he is....

It is a pretty incredible set of changes and makes him better. It's....kind of weird that they keep doing this with him though....

 

[iamresh]

robin dump?

 

[DatGameh]

Here are some Little Mac Patches.
Some of these are already listed, but I'll write them anyways. I'll label them blue.
For those I am not sure of, I will label them red.
NOTE: I might have missed some things. Please tell me if I did.

Smash attacks:

• F-Smashes:
  • Normal Sour/Sweetspot Damage: 17/19 -> 18/20
  • Up-angled Damage: 19 -> 20 (Note: I've played Mac for a long time, and I have never seen Little Mac have a late hitbox for this move.)
  • Down-angled Damage: 22 -> 24 (Fully charged: 30 -> 33)

• D-Smash
  • Damage: 12 -> 13

• Up-Smash
  • Using Up-Smash now makes Mac move back a little after doing it.
  • Damage Sour/Sweetspot Damage: 15/20 -> 16/21
  • Slightly Lower Knockback (I am not sure if it was in this or the patches before)(Now kills Mario at 54% instead of 50%).

Normal attacks:

• Jab:
  • No Changes
• F-Tilt:
  • No Changes
• D-Tilt
  • Reduced Knockback Growth (Now can reliably KO Punch in higher percents)
• U-Tilt
  • Damage: 8 -> 9 (Not sure if this was done in this patch or in older ones)

Special Attacks

• Neutral B's:
  • Straight Lunge Damage Reduction Over Distance (Not fully charged): 14-12 -> 14-12-9 (Not sure if this was done in this patch or in older ones)
  • KO Punch Damage: 37 -> 35
• Side B:
  • No Changes
• Up B:
  • No Changes

--------------------------------------------------

Biggest Changes:
All Smash Attack Damage are increased to make Mac more balanced.
Down tilt now has lesser knockback, allowing players to KO Punch more easily than before.

 

[Sammi Husky]

robin dump?

The only other character left with ACMD changes is Kirby, and none of them are really significant. Just a buttload of graphical stuff, probably for the new chars

 

[S_B]

The size of all four hitboxes were each increased one unit, and the furthest hitbox was moved away another half unit.

So basically "everywhere, but slightly more forward than other directions"

Oh wow, I didn't even KNOW it had multiple hitboxes...

Are there two in the air and two on the ground, or do both aerial and grounded states have four?

 

[Lavani]

Oh wow, I didn't even KNOW it had multiple hitboxes...

Are there two in the air and two on the ground, or do both aerial and grounded states have four?

The grounded version has four hitboxes, but two of them are just smaller versions of the other two and only grab aerial opponents (the larger main set is grounded enemies only).

The aerial version is just two hitboxes but they're also larger and aren't state-restricted.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

• Up-Smash
  • Using Up-Smash now makes Mac move back a little after doing it.

• U-Tilt
  • Damage: 8 -> 9 (Not sure if this was done in this patch or in older ones)

Special Attacks

• Neutral B's:
  • Straight Lunge Damage Reduction Over Distance (Not fully charged): 14-12 -> 14-12-9 (Not sure if this was done in this patch or in older ones)
  • KO Punch Damage: 37 -> 35

I can confirm that all of this was already in 1.13.

 

[AxelVDP]

Here are some Little Mac Patches.
-snip-

usmash always moved you slightly backwards when using it, it's nothing new
same deal with utilt, it always dealt 9%, in this patch however they added a hitbox at frame 4 (the move used to start at frame 5) and can be used to hit even crouching opponents (the move would whiff on some low-profile character pre-patch)
grounded KO punch always did 35% too

I don't want to sound like a **** but it seems to me that your info is not really reliable... and the stuff that you did get right has already been posted in this thread before

edit: ninja'd

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

The size of all four hitboxes were each increased one unit, and the furthest hitbox was moved away another half unit.

So basically "everywhere, but slightly more forward than other directions"

I'm really struggling to confirm this finding through gameplay. Flying Slam from the ground reaches just a few pixels shorter than jab 1 does in both pre and post patch. And the hitbox wasn't increased in the direction toward Bowser's body, because he can still whiff at point blank when moving into a human opponent. Are you sure the data is being interpreted correctly? Perhaps you confused the grabbox with the hitbox generated when you've grabbed somebody and are falling back down to the ground?

 

[Mario766]

While I don't think it'll make him suddenly jump up further than he is....

It is a pretty incredible set of changes and makes him better. It's....kind of weird that they keep doing this with him though....

Kill conversions start earlier and kill earlier and are easier to hit. Fair change alone is major. Nair makes his early percent reward better and gives him another aerial to use off throws or to set up up air/f air finishes.

It's Japan. Blame Japan.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Kill conversions start earlier and kill earlier and are easier to hit. Fair change alone is major. Nair makes his early percent reward better and gives him another aerial to use off throws or to set up up air/f air finishes.

It's Japan. Blame Japan.

I mean all of this is amazing yes but it strikes me as largely quality of life more than anything which is really all Ike can ask for (it's what I would consider MORE than he could ask for but hey! Japan!)

It's not necessarily that the changes aren't big but I don't think they're gonna skyrocket him anywhere. He was good, this just makes him a little bit better methinks.

It's nice that you can actually use SH AC Fair in neutral now though. I like that quite a bit!

 

[Mario766]

It fixed a few things but his lack of oos and a weak disadvantage will never get fixed. You're right on that end. Ike's likely jusy under high tier or low-high now. Aka where he was before the patch.