The Duck Hunt Competitive Smash 4 Thread

[Jigglymaster]

Yeah sounds like a good comparison.

I wonder about Duck Hunt's weight though. You wouldn't believe how many times I've managed to live up until 200%-ish. Feels like he weighs more than one thinks.

The more I play with Duck Hunt the better I am at using the projectiles as well. I've got a lot better with Clay Pigeon - going to make a vid tomorrow I think showing some stuff you can do - and I'm getting better at using a can lying around.

Just played 20-ish games with a good Mega Man in For Glory with no lag, was awesome. He shut me down with his projectiles in the beginning until I noticed the can helps block them, and I got better at approaching him. In the end I ended up winning most games because of Mega Man's lack of kill ability.

Actually we already have data on the weights http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-weight-rankings.367479/

Duck Hunt is on the lighter side of the cast, he's barley lighter than Diddy Kong. With him being at 91 and Diddy at 93

 

[Chauzu]

Actually we already have data on the weights http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-weight-rankings.367479/

Duck Hunt is on the lighter side of the cast, he's barley lighter than Diddy Kong. With him being at 91 and Diddy at 93

Ok!

Dunno why it is then. I've basically played as much Zelda but feels like I die at lower % with her. Ah well.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Ok!

Dunno why it is then. I've basically played as much Zelda but feels like I die at lower % with her. Ah well.

Thats cause Zelda is lighter than Duck Hunt XD

DHD is 91

Zelda is 85

 

[Chauzu]

Thats cause Zelda is lighter than Duck Hunt XD

DHD is 91

Zelda is 85

LOL yeah stupid me, i phrased it wrong.

I more meant I'm surprised that I can live up to 200%-ish with Duck Hunt when that's the same as I mainly see the heavyweights live to. But there might be something about campy chars, I've seen Pac-Man and Mega Man being able to hold out pretty well too.

 

[fill]

@ Chauzu and anyone else with DH exp., i feel like most people are playing DH as a campy playstyle. With him being referred to a similar style of Diddy, who can throw and wait on naners or throw them and go HAM. Has anyone one had luck with throwing projectiles as an approach then getting close and keep pressure? In my head i think this would work well but im a Wii U owner so i'm gonna have to wait to play DH

 

[CourageHound]

@ fill I have no doubt that DHD is capable of such play. DHD has very large tilts, good jab, and an auto cancel-able b-air he can use to keep the pressure on.

You can approach with all of his projectiles:

Trick Shot(Can)-

You can position the can in between you can your opponent. This essentially cuts off their options and exerts a high amount of stage control in itself(especially if your opponent's back is to the ledge). You basically limit their ground movement in such a way that leaves then with predictable options that you can punish. If they jump, you can easily push them back with a CLay Pigeon or F-fair/bair. Alternatively you can catch their landing with u-tilt, u-smash, or grab depending on how you would like to punish. You can also throw a disc if they simply advance forward.​

You can also position the can behind you(kicking it forward and going past it) and approach that way. It's a more direct/aggressive approach than the former. While playing the neutral/footsies game with your opponent, you can cover yourself with the can at any time if things become unfavorable. You can A. Hold shield and have it collide with your opponent and blowing them away while you stay safe. Or B. Roll, jump, or run backward; placing the can in between you and your opponent, making the escape hard to punish. One thing to note is to monitor when the can is going to blow up behind you. If you loose track and it begins to detonate at close proximity, you've essentially succumbed to your own projectile and given the opponent advantage.
​

Clay Pigeon/Wild Gunman-

You can approach with these guys in similar way. You throw the disc at your opponent and run just behind the disc. Or you can summon the gunman, and time your approach to be covered by the bullet(s). Provided your spacing is correct, this allows for a generally safe approach that your opponent must choose a defensive option for. If they shield the projectile, that is a free grab for you. If you predict their roll or spot dodge you can get a heavier smash punish. Just remember spacing is very important in all situations. ​

 

[Zantetsugun]

Duck Hunt be way to fat. All those cans and clay pigeons are weighing him down.

 

[WabbitSeason]

Another thing, Samus projectiles body Duck Hunt's from what I'm seeing. Strong missile punches through the clay pigeon, can can get pushed away by Z-air or projectiles, and she can spam missiles/charge shot/etc. pretty hard. Sheik's needles can push through also.

I'm thinking we'll see more use of his crazy disjointed hitboxes.

 

[Chauzu]

@ Chauzu and anyone else with DH exp., i feel like most people are playing DH as a campy playstyle. With him being referred to a similar style of Diddy, who can throw and wait on naners or throw them and go HAM. Has anyone one had luck with throwing projectiles as an approach then getting close and keep pressure? In my head i think this would work well but im a Wii U owner so i'm gonna have to wait to play DH

I'd say Duck Hunt will need to be aggressive to be effective. As lovely as his projectiles are the two most useful ones have lag and aren't spamable because you can't keep throwing them like, say, Samus' missiles or Link's arrows. The key is more using these projectiles to:

1) get into an advantageous position on the stage
2) allow for easier approaching
3) combo's

As said before I'll be making a vid today on the projectiles. It will be a big one. I will go into details on all projectiles, mostly Clay Pigeon (that is wonderful!) as I've already covered cans so much but also the Gunman and also how you can mix these all up together. So look forward to that!

In the weekend I'm also going to cover every move, like damage on each hit etc.

Edit: Just faced chillin's Lucina in For Glory as well and won, was fun to play a well known smash player for the first time.

 

[CourageHound]

I also get to play with a bunch of good South Florida players as well on the regular. Also MVD confirmed for maining DHD in Smash 4.

 

[Beaaronack]

I'm not sure if it is a "true" Ken Combo, but Fair to Dair feels really nice.

 

[fill]

Here is M2K playing Duck Hunt

 

[DunnoBro]

One thing that really helps i think is that duck hunt's default specials are pretty much his ideal set.

The default frisbee beats out the customs by far. One has an idiotic trajectory and the other while does more damage doesn't keep up pressure well.

Default Can beats the custom Cans out only arguably. Zigzag definitely has potential with all that stage jumping. In doubles I'd imagine that would be the can to use, but otherwise the trajectory and more incremental long-lasting pressure of the default can works better for singles imo. And the one-kick can is just awful, no pressure, no mindgames, just bleh.

The default can just works better with the frisbee and your other options in a standard 1v1 situation.

Duck high jump might be nominally better. Less versatile recovery, as it kills your horizontal momentum once you use it but I don't think it makes you go any less far. It also makes him much less a sitting duckhunt since it's so sudden(and i think invincibility frames) not to mention a decent wind push from the startup animation.

Tough Gunmen might actually be much better than default gunmen. They're still not too great but they actually serve a decent purpose other than "moar projectiles!" in that they're super bulky, tall, and take much longer to shoot/leave so their presence is more intimidating. I suspect they'd be most valuable against other projectile users to absorb their stuff, and threaten their camping position. If you're behind it, it makes it difficult for people to approach with multi-hit as they'll hit the gunmen, slowdown, and provide you with a lot of time to respond.

But in the end, all we'd get from being able to use customs is a nominally better recovery, and a better matchup against imo inferior projectile characters that are for the most part hurt much worse by being confined to defaults.

 

[Pichuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu]

Anyone know who a Duck Hunt VS Greninja battle would be in favor of? My friend has his heart set on beating me with Greninja and I've haven't found much considering no one seems to care about the frog ninja and his moveset.

 

[DunnoBro]

http://www.twitch.tv/shi_gaming/b/571271653

100+ person japanese tournament, duck hunt came in 3rd. Haven't watched it all yet, duckhunt player plays at 5:20 onward. Dunno what other points he plays at yet. Makes good use of gunmen.

 

[Chauzu]

Big post about custom specials

I agree about cans and clay pigeon, the defaults are most likely the best. Gunman will be debateable.

I can not agree about up special though. The one which teleports Duck Hunt will be standard I think. Why? Because the normal up special is extremely gimpable, in some matches you just know you aren't making it back since they're so good at gimping.

The teleport solves this though as you are protected from attacks while moving. It gives you less horizontal recovery ofc but let's face it, in situations where this would make a difference are situations when you are highly susceptible to getting gimped to start with.

It's a shame I can't use it in For Glory since Duck Hunt is just a worse character with the standard up special and I often end up thinking "if I just had the custom recovery..."

 

[DunnoBro]

I agree about cans and clay pigeon, the defaults are most likely the best. Gunman will be debateable.

I can not agree about up special though. The one which teleports Duck Hunt will be standard I think. Why? Because the normal up special is extremely gimpable, in some matches you just know you aren't making it back since they're so good at gimping.

The teleport solves this though as you are protected from attacks while moving. It gives you less horizontal recovery ofc but let's face it, in situations where this would make a difference are situations when you are highly susceptible to getting gimped to start with.

It's a shame I can't use it in For Glory since Duck Hunt is just a worse character with the standard up special and I often end up thinking "if I just had the custom recovery..."

What you call the teleport is what i called the high jump i think. And like I said, that is definitely better than the standard up special. So I believe we do actually agree, I just failed to word things more clearly =p

There's ways to work with it, make you appreciate the default in some situations. Like kicking the can before you recover to scare them off from gimping (something not as possible with high jump due to vertical distance lost in the time spent kicking the can) or just being able to recover from farther out after a gimp attempt. But I'd trade offensive anti-gimp and slightly superior gimping ability for the kind of security high jump offers for sure.

 

[CourageHound]

I actually prefer default to the high jump honestly. Since smash4's engine no longer has DI, but now vectoring, the extra horizontal distance can be crucial. But idk, that's just me. Of course, there are many variables and situations where either special would be more usefull.

 

[DunnoBro]

The actual ability to get back is better, sure. But he's just so easy to gimp. I will admit to preferring the default myself, but ONLY because I'm more used to it. Objectively I simply cannot explain it being better than high jump.

 

[CourageHound]

Ok after actually revisiting the custom moves video, I will agree that high jump is better, my apologies. I was under the impression that high jump had lower vertical distance, but actually rises higher than default. It actually seems that there's no reason to not use high jump because of how absurdly good it is.

The teleport solves this though as you are protected from attacks while moving. It gives you less horizontal recovery ofc but let's face it, in situations where this would make a difference are situations when you are highly susceptible to getting gimped to start with.

^Pretty much my thoughts...

How do you guys think TOs in your area will take to custom moves? Mine certainly think they shouldn't be allowed. After looking at the custom moves of some characters...I'm starting to consider it. Or at least restrict them to the 3DS version.

 

[fill]

http://www.gfycat.com/BlackandwhiteBonyKilldeer
heres a GIF using the can as a distraction for edgeguarding

Edit: heres the full video, also i never bothered to correctly embed the videos :/, but i went through and fixed all the ones ive posted to this thread...enjoy

 

[DunnoBro]

Ok after actually revisiting the custom moves video, I will agree that high jump is better, my apologies. I was under the impression that high jump had lower vertical distance, but actually rises higher than default. It actually seems that there's no reason to not use high jump because of how absurdly good it is.



^Pretty much my thoughts...

How do you guys think TOs in your area will take to custom moves? Mine certainly think they shouldn't be allowed. After looking at the custom moves of some characters...I'm starting to consider it. Or at least restrict them to the 3DS version.

MD/VA here, they always welcomed brawl minus, P:M, etc. I think as long as it doesn't hinder the tournament proceedings they'll allow it. I haven't been to an event in a while, though...

They might be split. Default movesets and customs.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Anybody got clips of an aggressive Duck Hunt?

I see his campy playstyle and that seems effective.

But I feel like there's still some potential is getting sweetspots with tilts and aerials, and smashes of course.

 

[fill]

Anybody got clips of an aggressive Duck Hunt?

I see his campy playstyle and that seems effective.

But I feel like there's still some potential is getting sweetspots with tilts and aerials, and smashes of course.

this is the most aggro DH ive seen so far, although i watched PB&J's stream last night and the CPU DH doesnt play campy lol, but i too really want to see the non campy potential of DH, i'll keep looking and when i do ill post it here

Spoiler

Here is a Duck Hunt / ROB video, it gives a good idea of a fast paced, projectile Duck Hunt.

 

[Chauzu]

What you call the teleport is what i called the high jump i think. And like I said, that is definitely better than the standard up special. So I believe we do actually agree, I just failed to word things more clearly =p

There's ways to work with it, make you appreciate the default in some situations. Like kicking the can before you recover to scare them off from gimping (something not as possible with high jump due to vertical distance lost in the time spent kicking the can) or just being able to recover from farther out after a gimp attempt. But I'd trade offensive anti-gimp and slightly superior gimping ability for the kind of security high jump offers for sure.

Yeah I understand that you basically agreed when rereading, just read the "Duck Hunt's standards are the best" part.

 

[proxibomb]

Based off what everyone is talking about, DHD's can meta game is going to be crazy. Are there any other moves he has that's really good. I do believe, based off tournament results, he might be high tier.

 

[Chauzu]

Based off what everyone is talking about, DHD's can meta game is going to be crazy. Are there any other moves he has that's really good. I do believe, based off tournament results, he might be high tier.

Uair is very good and his only other kill move except for smashes (or cans at very high %, as well as the dair spike).

Clay Pigeon is on the same level as the can, it's very good.

I like nair too, it has good priority in the air but nasty landing lag.

 

[CourageHound]

I also like nair for simply how looonng it stays out. You can punish airdodges just by throwing this out from a full hop, and even rolls from a short hop. The lag is pretty distasteful from a short hop, but weaving out after the hit should remedy that a bit.

 

[warionumbah2]

Might pick up DHD i enjoy playing campy so i can become good in a short time.

Anybody got clips of an aggressive Duck Hunt?

I see his campy playstyle and that seems effective.

But I feel like there's still some potential is getting sweetspots with tilts and aerials, and smashes of course.

 

[25%Cotton]

ftilt and f/bair range is fairly generous, and i find myself giving a lot of pressure to decent players online who expect me to projectile camp. my biggest problem is getting KOs. i'm not very good at setting up smashes in this gen yet (especially with DHD), so most of my KOs are from uair, meteors, and can followups.

also i'm PRETTY sure i'm doing the upb wrong because watching the tourney it looks a lot more versatile than how i thought and everybody's always talking about how "great" it is when i've found it troubling. lol... i should probably actually look at it in training mode.

 

[DunnoBro]

Who said the upb was great? The only decent thing about it is how far it carries him, but it's so slow and predictable I'd never call it a "Great" recovery.

And yea DH is kind of annoying to kill with for me too. His smashes have decent range but they require pretty precise timing.

 

[Chauzu]

ftilt and f/bair range is fairly generous, and i find myself giving a lot of pressure to decent players online who expect me to projectile camp. my biggest problem is getting KOs. i'm not very good at setting up smashes in this gen yet (especially with DHD), so most of my KOs are from uair, meteors, and can followups.

And yea DH is kind of annoying to kill with for me too. His smashes have decent range but they require pretty precise timing.

Finally some that agrees with me! When discussing this with more "knowledgeable" smashers - about Duck Hunt in general lacking kill options - I've been mostly laughed at because the community has basically decided Duck Hunt is already top tier.

It might be but it will be because of the great projectiles and zoning game, not because of the great smashes. All smashes will kill but they are all iffy and have lag.

(My personal opinion is that Duck Hunt won't be top tier though - High Tier at best is my opinion after playing a lot with it so far. I'll happily be proven wrong though!)

Edit: And yes, the standard recovery is pretty horrible, the custom teleport one is pretty great though.

 

[42_]

Has anyone figured out the differences between the wild gunmen?

I noticed that some of them fire a little faster and one of the short stubby guys shoots a bullet that causes a fiery effect.

 

[guedes the brawler]

how good is his grab game?

 

[[TSON]]

Not really sure what to do once I get a grab, but the grab seems like one of the easiest to get in the game. I've had some success with dthrow -> fair

 

[Mankosuki]

Here is M2K playing Duck Hunt

Looks like Sonic will go towards the tin can during his homing attack if it's closer than DHD is. Could be a useful way of handling the match up.

 

[creep]

Not really sure what to do once I get a grab, but the grab seems like one of the easiest to get in the game. I've had some success with dthrow -> fair

Up throw > Uair at low percents leads into more aerials. At high percents I generally just throw off the edge.

Been finding great success with dash attack > fair > fair/dair/nair.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Aight y'all. A list of DHD facts and things you might find useful or may know already;

-Fair vs Bair; fair has more range than bair does, but bair has more damage and knockback and autocancels from a short hop without fastfalling, also has less recovery in the air. Fair does not autocancel from a SH and cannot be fastfalled from a full hop without landing lag (Megaman aerials)
-Uair can be your main kill move if you manage to land it at later percents closer to the ceiling (say after dthrow), similar to Diddy
-Biting UpB is better than the other two imo (starts rising much faster than default upB but with hitboxes, Super upB moves too far and is too punishable, forced to recover under the ledge every time to be safe, also Biting upB becomes an OOS option even if it is ****ty)
-Dthrow into fair/uair/nair doesn't seem guaranteed, unsure if it actually combos or not, but doable
-Comboing into a can somewhere works really easily, try shooting the can into a position where you can throw them into it, don't expect the can to kill until like 150+ though
-DHD has a LOT of options where he can sit in his shield and still hit you (zigzag can is great for this), this makes downB a great defensive option as it blocks some projectiles while still having a hitbox (All of his specials except upB)
-Hitting the can from a side DOES change the direction that the can can be shot in (with neutral B) to that direction it was hit
-Zigzag Can can combo into itself for every hit if done properly

 

[DunnoBro]

What do you guys think of doubles DHD? Can't get enough good people to test but in theory I'd imagine he'd be top tier there too. Really ****ing hard to avoid his cans/frisbee if another char is already on the offensive. I'd imagine someone with good shield/grab options, and aerial approaches would be best so instead of working around the stage riddled with traps, it just covers more ground for them.

Kirby/Jiggly come to mind, (kirby can do double can bull**** if you wanna get fancy.) Small, precise and conservative movements to avoid accidentally hitting the can, can hover above your wall/setups.

Also, is it just me or is the lucario matchup scary as ****?

 

[WieldyMinotaur]

One thing you can do is spam cans when your opponent are thrown out from the stage. They will have a much harder time avoiding and so you can inflict easy damage.