The Duck Hunt Competitive Smash 4 Thread

[DunnoBro]

I'm talking about with lag. His smashes don't stay out for any length of time so punishing rolls is hard and bair is also hard to FF sweetspot in lag. I keep letting opponents get to like 180%+ online but offline I catch them in traps really early on.

Detonating the frisbee is also troublesome in lag.

Nowhere near as bad as brawl lag, especially with nearby friends but I really gotta get a car lol

 

[CourageHound]

Oooohhhh. Lol then yea I completely agree with you. I definitely is hard to make precise punishes with DHD under lag.

 

[DunnoBro]

Is it just me or is pivot fsmash ****in amazing? It's really the only way you can properly punish rolls hard, and also lets you fake out for when they're landing or were pressuring their shield.

I'd say aside from when I need the range ASAP to punish stuff, there's really no point in not pivoting pretty much every fsmash with that ridic range.

 

[Diamond DHD]

Is it just me or is pivot fsmash ****in amazing? It's really the only way you can properly punish rolls hard, and also lets you fake out for when they're landing or were pressuring their shield.

I'd say aside from when I need the range ASAP to punish stuff, there's really no point in not pivoting pretty much every fsmash with that ridic range.

Explain pivot forward-smashes like I'm 5 years old, this sounds too good to be true.

 

[DunnoBro]

Explain pivot forward-smashes like I'm 5 years old, this sounds too good to be true.

Just run one direction, and turn around with the fsmash input. Ftilt is good with this too, especially for quickly redirecting the can, though be sure to hit with the beak so it'll travel a decent distance.

Did a video where i focused on trying to use pivot smashes: http://youtu.be/zElBKxW9oB4

Note the first kill in the first match: Regular fsmash before the pivot failed, really telegraphed. Tried again with a pivot and had a looot of room for error and got the kill.

 

[DunnoBro]

What secondary do you guys think helps Duck Hunt most? I've been training a sonic for this task since he really goes crazy on RosaLuma with tons of free/safe/fast smacks to split them up. Also does well against sheik and greninja, though those seem more even.

 

[Spirst]

What secondary do you guys think helps Duck Hunt most? I've been training a sonic for this task since he really goes crazy on RosaLuma with tons of free/safe/fast smacks to split them up. Also does well against sheik and greninja, though those seem more even.

I use Greninja and Duck Hunt. Greninja has some issue with Rosalina but does much better than DH does. Greninja can also keep up with Sonic and Sheik and has great adaptability to either go even with or have a favorable matchup against most of the cast.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

The thing about DHD is that his smashes aren't good. They're slow, they take time to reach a level of disjoint that is worth comparing to Melee Marth fsmash, and often times if they get hit by the first shot it won't do anything.

Most of DHD's kills are from neutralB at high percents/offstage, other gimps, bair or uair. I kill more with bair than any other method simply because it can be autocanceled off a SH, so it's easy enough to land when spacing.

That's why he does have trouble killing, but not nearly as much as most characters do in this game.

 

[DunnoBro]

I hope Arena ferox becomes legal. Minus the statues that block our projectiles is a pretty damn good counterpick for DHD.

The hard ceilings do a lot for us.

>Restrict air approaches, makes our domination of the ground a near monopoly
>Bounce the can back down for quicker travel/disruption and RIDICULOUS edgeguarding. (During this portion, the can essentially spikes if they fail to tech if it was bounced down to hit them http://www.ssbwiki.com/File:Arena_Ferox_press_image_4.jpg)
>Keeps the frisbee low after a shield hit, they need to roll away cause it'll just sit there or a looong time for some ceilings.

>Our projectiles knock them all over the damn place and we can take advantage of their failure to tech
>During this portion, the spike in the middle cuts off a lot of their options for dealing with our mid-range projectiles. http://media.tumblr.com/bc3834fa4c763910c8ed971b0a3f227c/tumblr_inline_n7izrpQsBM1s2c7j8.jpg They can't just roll away

I think it's especially nice in the RosaLuma matchup because all the hard platforms and stage split-ups make it easier for them to get separated if they luma launch. Their desynchs in general seem harder and less potent too.

The statue portion is the only time the stage doesn't help us really. It isn't a huge deal, just get used to working around it or stalling it out. It actually hurts most other projectile users way more, and we can still dominate the mid-range since the middle of the stage is mostly unaffected.

Though yea, possibly not becomin legal so just keep this in mind if it does.

 

[WispBae]

The statue portion is the only time the stage doesn't help us really. It isn't a huge deal, just get used to working around it or stalling it out. It actually hurts most other projectile users way more, and we can still dominate the mid-range since the middle of the stage is mostly unaffected.

We gotta also keep in mind we still have DH's very disjointed moveset. F-Tilt, Fair, U-Air, Dair (in some situations) are all very useful tools to keep spacing in our favor. I especially love Fair, it hits very, VERY far away (I believe the sweetspot being the duck's beak, sending people much farther, at a high angle rather than the body, which sends at a lower angle, but less far away.

Essentially, what this comes down do is DH has some sort of tipper system, akin to Marth, just not as prominent. It's important to note, but not crippling if not mastered. I would recommend practicing getting back on ledge with Fair, it is a very safe way to get back up.

Mixing in the clay pigeon along with an aggresive playstyle I find it quite effective. It's how I deal with fast MU's (Greninja, Sheik, Yoshi), when I lack stage control. Using clay pigeon for follow ups, running away to a pivot clay, pressuring people when they are teching, it's a great way to deal with speed. The only downsides being: start up lag is incredible on the clay, and it sometimes interferes with setting up can if you haven't shot the clay yet, but those are both easily avoided by not spamming (spamming makes you predictable anyways, don't do that!).

 

[Spirst]

We gotta also keep in mind we still have DH's very disjointed moveset. F-Tilt, Fair, U-Air, Dair (in some situations) are all very useful tools to keep spacing in our favor. I especially love Fair, it hits very, VERY far away (I believe the sweetspot being the duck's beak, sending people much farther, at a high angle rather than the body, which sends at a lower angle, but less far away.

Essentially, what this comes down do is DH has some sort of tipper system, akin to Marth, just not as prominent. It's important to note, but not crippling if not mastered. I would recommend practicing getting back on ledge with Fair, it is a very safe way to get back up.

Mixing in the clay pigeon along with an aggresive playstyle I find it quite effective. It's how I deal with fast MU's (Greninja, Sheik, Yoshi), when I lack stage control. Using clay pigeon for follow ups, running away to a pivot clay, pressuring people when they are teching, it's a great way to deal with speed. The only downsides being: start up lag is incredible on the clay, and it sometimes interferes with setting up can if you haven't shot the clay yet, but those are both easily avoided by not spamming (spamming makes you predictable anyways, don't do that!).

Are those actually disjointed moves? I'm not sure if the Duck affects DH's hurtbox or not. Do you know?

Also, yeah, the f-air has a sweetspot on the duck's beak which deals 10% as opposed to the dog's body which does 6% and less knockback. The range on the f-air is actually pretty surprising.

B-air is also good. Sweespot does 12% and sourspot does 10%. Less range than the fair though but has more knockback.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I found a nice trick with the Gunmen and the Can.

1. Jump forward
2. Kick a Can
3. When the can lands, plant a Gunman
4. FTilt the Can
5. Gunmen shoots the opponent instead of the can
6. *Insert Dog Laugh here*
7. Can is in a nice position too
8. Continue to duck everybody up!

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

remember Gunmen are great for approaches for more than just the shot; they block all projectiles until they die, and the shorter, tougher gunman can even survive some hard hitting projectiles and still shoot.

Matchups vs characters with long range, fast projectiles like Falco and Sheik you can block every projectile they have with a stalemate can, or downb, but it really doesn't save you. Falco is easier but Sheik will mess you up if you don't move just the right way with your cans.

 

[DunnoBro]

Starting to notice the applications of how smashes put DHD into a crouch hurtbox.

Most helpful one I found, If Link bounces on your shield once with dair and still tries for another, an OoS upsmash will win easily.
But also, high bairs like sonics, ganon, falcon, etc are extremely hard to hit DHD with. So it's safe as hell to just threaten they're landing if they're not facing you. (Though with sonic be careful cause he can homing attack still)

I really love how ****ing short DHD is. He has a really tricky crouch hurtbox too, I've won smash trades where it looks like we both should've eaten it. It's somewhat deceiving.

Also started working in dairs to punish rolls after watching Duck. I remember now I noticed that was legit at first too but stopped doing it because I wasn't used to doing short-hop dairs without a c-stick yet. Now I am though and it's amazing, definitely our best roll punishing tool imo.

Smacks them straight up for a uair at higher percents (or other followups even if they di well), though not worth it until around killing percents because they'll just sit there after getting hit and can punish your endlag. Has been really helping with kills holy crap.

Also starting to wonder about the bad Mus people talked about before. Rosaluma is annoying but with the nerfs (mainly the grab one) i think we'll be fine. I never felt like it was worse than 40-60 before and now that I can grab it'll be more even. (Was really annoyed that I was forced to use gunmen so much to avoid gpull and was given grab opportunities as a result but couldn't take them)

Greninja and Sheik mus haven't really been that bad as others suspected though. Can + shield grabbing their landings has been most effective for me.

Most annoying MU has been lucario, honestly. You just can't threaten his recovery and that loses a lot of kill/damage opportunities. The neutral game is all DHD but then it becomes a real grind for the kill. Most of mine are uair kills, never smashes or gimps.

He also doesn't stay very high so can kills don't happen until very late usually.

Side note, finally got a good deal on a car + insurance so will actually be going to tournaments in this iteration of smash and not just piggybacking/metroing to smashfets.

 

[Spirst]

1.0.4 is out. I've done some testing and don't think Duck Hunt was changed at all. I was hoping the reliability of the Uair/smashes would increase but better that than some undeserving nerf.

 

[DunnoBro]

So his smashes still do that annoying thing where they slip out before the strong hit?

How'd you test? I gotta record all my replays then I'll update and compare to my unedited original japanese version. DHD doesn't seem like a very popular character so smaller pool of people testing him it feels like lol

So sheik, greninja, and rosalina our worst MUs all got nerfed. Though only the former two seem to actually be at all significant. Still, things aren't lookin too bad for DHD. Hope he remains unpopular/annoying.

So I'd like to share our general concerns as DHD players and what we're trying to improve at/incorporate in our playstyles.

For me:

-SH Dair shenanigans - Lots of follow-ups and pressure options, though watch out against characters with strong, fast upsmashes like mario or fox cause their small, easy to miss bodies mixed with that can punish you easy and hard. Very helpful against vertical hitbox oriented characters like link, samus, mac, etc.

-REALLY get used to upsmash/utilt. Predicting/punishing rolls is easy enough, but I have really bad grasp of the range in the air. I've been making a conscious effort to do it and noticed punishing air dodges from a ledge jump after you kicked your can into them is really legit. (Before I would pivot fsmash, which IS easier to pull off, but kills later and also hurts the timing. Upsmash is better for characters with multiple jumps or pseudo-jumps via specials (sheik, zss, etc)

-Learn all the hard MUs. This is actually pretty quantifiable, like with ROB, you short hop EVERYTHING. But with Rosalina, you stay grounded and about 2 rolls away from her. Lucario I'm gonna avoid until I develop my endgame better. That's my only issue there, I just can't kill the ******. Then I'll work on punishing his extremespeed with that.

-Play good players using very high pressure rushdown characters. I find I misjudge distances/situations a lot and pull out the wrong projectile, at the wrong time and get dash attacks (or worse) to the face.

-Get used to uairs ridiculous horizontal range and when it's applicable. It's actually pretty deceiving.

-STOP SUICIDING GOD DAMN
Like damn near 100% of my losses are from suicide. Often from throwing a pigeon instead of upb, but also general dumb stuff.

 

[Spirst]

I tested by doing a comparison between my 3DS on 1.0.4 and a friend's who is still on 1.0.3. Yeah, sadly enough, the smashes still do the thing where the second reticle hits and they're pushed too far out for the third to connect. Uair still lacks the strong downwards knockback that's found in other mult-hit aerials as well. If those two were to be fixed, KOs would be much less irritating. There's nothing more infuriating than landing an fsmash at high percents only for the other player to be pushed away without any actual knockback.

Rosalina was hardly nerfed in comparison to the other two. Greninja is more manageable now as his hydro pump was nerfed as was the cooldown on his best KO move, the Usmash. Sheik has the bouncing fish nerf as well as her fair and some other stuff.

SH dair is something I've been trying to make more use of. If you get to predicting how the other player reacts to can harassment offstage, you can bait their airdodge or double jump and meet it with a dair after the can. It's netted me a few KOs against people who tend to fall into a certain pattern.

Against Rosalina, I don't recommend ever being offstage. The long-lasting hitbox on her nair is insane and can stage spike your recovery or send you further out to where she can easily use the disjoint on her dair to end your day. Gravitational pull is overrated, in my opinion. Sure, she can negate the can and the clay pigeon but she can't keep doing that every second without getting punished for it. It's good to have those as "surprise" projectiles for harassment and forcing her into uncomfortable spots where she has to do down b which gives you a small window to set something else up or get closer. Being unable to absorb the gunmen is a big boon. The transcendant priority means that the shot is going to pierce through Luma and hit Rosalina anyway. If only it sent Luma away.

I've been feeling like our supposedly hard matchups like Greninja/Rosalina/Sonic are actually pretty manageable provided you don't fall into the habit of trying to be campy. Duck Hunt's strength is his adaptability to cycle between projectile-based and physically-based. Duck Hunt does have some issues against heavy rushdown playstyles though. It can be a little hard to get them off you so you can have some breathing room but overall, I don't think those are heavily in the other characters' favor.

That said, I'm hoping DH remains unpopular as well. Gets pretty boring when everyone plays the character.

 

[Diamond DHD]

I'm not sure if this is something to do with Fox, but I found something in Training mode and can't recreate it. As DHD, I pushed Fox over to the right side, pushed him off so he had to use his up-b to recover, then I kicked a can over the edge and used the side smash, Fox then, still in his up-b animation, shot off the right side of the stage. I'm not sure if the can exploded or not. It could be Fox's AI messing up and it side-b'd in the wrong direction, but it seemed to go too far and too fast. I'm going to try and get it in an actual match so I can save a replay, but I thought it seemed interesting. And yes, I have the new update.

 

[DunnoBro]

Sounds like the can just hit him into a stage spike but didn't explode. It tends to do that if it's trading with a hitbox that's always a hurtbox like bowser's upb or sex kicks

 

[Dooms]

http://pastebin.com/PzTjdtx8

search duckhunt and find his frame data.

 

[DunnoBro]

How do you guys reverse short hop clay pigeon with the gcn controller?

For 3ds i just rolled my thumb down from y to b while moving the control stick and that was it. But the special button is too far for that.

Also developing an awful case of BNF. Was playing chudat and boss this weekend and kept SDing, screwing up pivots, and my upairs turning into usmashes... **** like that.

I can't believe I was actually better on the 3ds lol Hope i get used to gcn again soon

 

[DunnoBro]

Okay so after some research and a lot of testing I came to this control scheme for duck hunt I'm going to try out for a while, but so far it feels really fluid.

I recently turned tap jump off 2 weeks ago, and encountered a few issues of fluidity during my first weekend playing some people from md/va (chudat, boss, etc)

So some issues might be from me not being used to tap jump off yet.

1: Main issue was short hop pigeon toss was next to impossible for me. I couldn't just slide my thumb over two buttons right next to each other. And against kirby who was always just over regular pigeon toss's range so that was infuriating.
2: Jump to uairs turned into grounded usmashes
3: Pivot smashing seems harder.

My control scheme is:
Tap Jump ON

A Button: Special
B Button: Attack
C Stick: Attacks (not smashes)
R button: Grab

The A button being set to specials lets you slide between x/y to short hop them easily. Soooo much easier, even than the 3ds. Rising and reverse can kick is actually really easy and helpful this way.

B button set to attack is pretty much just there for smashes, and shield grabs. I have the c-stick set to attacks so I don't lose the aerial movement when used for aerials. Soo much for fluid, short hop dair into everything is so much easier and fluid. It doesn't feel like I have to force myself to do it, it's a easy, fluid part of the playstyle.

I have no issue short hopping aerials with the control stick myself, with proper timing the c-stick cuts off the jump so I'm just as consistent as x/a.

I actually also have no issue utilting out of shield either, I never even noticed that as an issue but c-stick helps with this too.

R is just personal preference, I always use L for shield and R usually does nothing, but my finger hovers on it more than Z so I think I'd prefer it for surprise pivot grabs.

To test, I don't suggest playing real people cause it's so awkward. Multi-man smash is ideal for getting timing downs and it feels really good seeing progress as you go in the form of time/kills/etc. Though be sure to go out of your way to actually test specific stuff like utilt and dair and not just spam dash attack because it's op on the ai.

Lemme know what you guys think. Definitely interested in your control schemes, but I think such a specials oriented character like DHD having the A button being designated to specials is pretty understandable.

Edit: SH nair is kind of hard. Hmm... Maybe X to attack since I don't use it, though still easier with just b.

Edit2: Kind of awkward getting used to, little surprised how easy it was getting used to diagonal direction for nair, i use the top right angle (sometimes left unconsciously, generally successful so far with minimal practice) for it and it isn't too hard really. Most fluid of all with tap jump. Gonna need to keep practicing it into my muscle memory but dang i like it. Real easy to run and keep momentum with it while not wasting time between transitions to avoid going into fair

Edit3: Actually, changed x to jump and y to attack. Will take some getting used to but easier, more fluid nairs are worth it. Also y actually feels good as attack. (probably because im used to attack being above being special still)

But overall this scheme is working out great. Really helps with my secondary Sonic too, actually. Who is also very specials based.

 

[Arcadenik]

I kind of wish that the third shot of the clay shooting move would be a meteor smash that sends opponents falling straight down instead of flinching them (just to prevent opponents from doing recovery moves like with DHD's Dair)... DHD really needs a couple more killing moves.

Also, I think I prefer DHD's Dsmash instead of Fsmash because unlike Fsmash, Dsmash could trap opponents and make them zig zag from left to right then back left. Hmmm... is that like doing Fsmash except it sends the opponents flying behind you?

 

[DunnoBro]

Dsmash is only good for punishing rolls or hitting when they're super close to you imo.

Also, gonna work on implementing b-reverse into my playstyle. Essentially, when im running away I like to use clay pigeon as my surprise anti-rushdown. But it really isn't that great at it.

It's extremely difficult, and was near impossible on the 3ds but i think doable on the gcn, but if you do it right you can do a much quicker, and safer turn around into can to deal with rushes and set-up quicker.

Essentially: Dash > Jump (short or full) > Smash Control stick in opposite direction you're facing (or tilt very lightly but smashing is easier to get used to for the timing) > Within a certain amount of frames, hit neutral b.

If done right, you will have kicked the can in the opposite direction you were running while rising with a jump, likely towards your enemy and hopefully scare them off. You can also keep the momentum of the way you were going if done super well, but I don't think it's very helpful with the can already acting as a barrier between you and your opponent.

Clay pigeon worked well, but I feel but the can is better overall since it deals with them when they get closer.
At worst it'll trade. The can comes out quicker, and doesn't keep going forward until it hits the floor or a shield. This can really help in those high pressure matchups where the can is needed to slow things down.

The pigeon felt like it often got smashed by dash attacks, along with me... Or just to hit a shield and disappear and leave me to fend for myself but closer to the ledge now :/ Sometimes it would work and that's great, get used to the spacing that it works at. But this definitely seems like the safer option.

I don't know how easy it will be for me to utilize into matches in the future, but first try at 1/2 speed I was able to do it 96/100 times. Hopefully I can get that high on normal speed. I definitely suggest trying at 1/2 speed first because there are a few visual cues that you can get subconsciously used to imo.

Notes: I have a bad habit of using the ending animation frames of the can kick to shoot it 2 extra times and get it higher when recovering, or using it from the ground. It's good there, but it was further solidified every time i use the can from testing it in training mode and mashing the can to get rid of it quicker. However, when used from even a short hop that often makes it too high to protect you well so only kick it! Shoot only if necessary!

Can also be used for gunmen, though I'm not really sure about the applications of it(maybe sudden projectile blocking). I'll practice that too just for extra b-reverse experience though.

Pretty sure short hopping it is best most of the time. Though I'd just aim on jumping and b-reversing and focus on short hop timing later.

 

[Spirst]

I've been playing around with can usage while being mobile and I'm finding that shooting a can while shorthopping forward/backward or foxtrotting works great for added pressure and mindgames. If you shoot the can while moving, the typical reaction would be to shield at which you point you can get a free grab in for an fthrow-followup and then shoot the can in front of you if they try retaliating. If you get grabbed, the can being so close is great for freeing you as it does 8% to you but 10% to others.

As for b-reversing a can, you can do a SH B-reverse can and then reverse the gunman before landing. This leaves the can right at your backside and a gunman right in front. Great for covering both sides.

 

[Arcadenik]

I just found this video... looks good.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

I'm thinking bair had its hitbox size reduced, but that might only be because for whatever reason, I can't for the life of me hit a can on the ground with it as easily as I did on the 3ds.

 

[Spirst]

I'm thinking bair had its hitbox size reduced, but that might only be because for whatever reason, I can't for the life of me hit a can on the ground with it as easily as I did on the 3ds.

I thought that when I first played the Wii U version but I don't know whether it was actually reduced or not. I seem to be able to do it now after adjusting but I'd really like to see some hard data detailing the difference between the hitbox in 1.0.3 and now.

 

[DunnoBro]

I'm thinking bair had its hitbox size reduced, but that might only be because for whatever reason, I can't for the life of me hit a can on the ground with it as easily as I did on the 3ds.

I don't think the hitbox was reduced, iirc the values are the same. Do you use c-stick to bair? Is it set to smash? It's harder to fast fall that way so maybe that's the issue. I know it's much easier when it's set to attack (but then pivot smashing is way harder )

 

[crashbfan]

Okay so after some research and a lot of testing I came to this control scheme for duck hunt I'm going to try out for a while, but so far it feels really fluid.

I recently turned tap jump off 2 weeks ago, and encountered a few issues of fluidity during my first weekend playing some people from md/va (chudat, boss, etc)

So some issues might be from me not being used to tap jump off yet.

1: Main issue was short hop pigeon toss was next to impossible for me. I couldn't just slide my thumb over two buttons right next to each other. And against kirby who was always just over regular pigeon toss's range so that was infuriating.
2: Jump to uairs turned into grounded usmashes
3: Pivot smashing seems harder.

My control scheme is:
Tap Jump ON

A Button: Special
B Button: Attack
C Stick: Attacks (not smashes)
R button: Grab

The A button being set to specials lets you slide between x/y to short hop them easily. Soooo much easier, even than the 3ds. Rising and reverse can kick is actually really easy and helpful this way.

B button set to attack is pretty much just there for smashes, and shield grabs. I have the c-stick set to attacks so I don't lose the aerial movement when used for aerials. Soo much for fluid, short hop dair into everything is so much easier and fluid. It doesn't feel like I have to force myself to do it, it's a easy, fluid part of the playstyle.

I have no issue short hopping aerials with the control stick myself, with proper timing the c-stick cuts off the jump so I'm just as consistent as x/a.

I actually also have no issue utilting out of shield either, I never even noticed that as an issue but c-stick helps with this too.

R is just personal preference, I always use L for shield and R usually does nothing, but my finger hovers on it more than Z so I think I'd prefer it for surprise pivot grabs.

To test, I don't suggest playing real people cause it's so awkward. Multi-man smash is ideal for getting timing downs and it feels really good seeing progress as you go in the form of time/kills/etc. Though be sure to go out of your way to actually test specific stuff like utilt and dair and not just spam dash attack because it's op on the ai.

Lemme know what you guys think. Definitely interested in your control schemes, but I think such a specials oriented character like DHD having the A button being designated to specials is pretty understandable.

Edit: SH nair is kind of hard. Hmm... Maybe X to attack since I don't use it, though still easier with just b.

Edit2: Kind of awkward getting used to, little surprised how easy it was getting used to diagonal direction for nair, i use the top right angle (sometimes left unconsciously, generally successful so far with minimal practice) for it and it isn't too hard really. Most fluid of all with tap jump. Gonna need to keep practicing it into my muscle memory but dang i like it. Real easy to run and keep momentum with it while not wasting time between transitions to avoid going into fair

Edit3: Actually, changed x to jump and y to attack. Will take some getting used to but easier, more fluid nairs are worth it. Also y actually feels good as attack. (probably because im used to attack being above being special still)

But overall this scheme is working out great. Really helps with my secondary Sonic too, actually. Who is also very specials based.

Dude you should try using the gamepad

 

[Diamond DHD]

Dude you should try using the gamepad

I've been using nothing but the gamepad recently, it just feels so good for some reason.

 

[crashbfan]

I've been using nothing but the gamepad recently, it just feels so good for some reason.

it's awesome right? never expected it to be so good, but migrating from the 3DS, I customized the controls and was good to go, no adaptation needed and I went right to stomping in the first match I played.

GCN adapter is coming in the mail tomorrow, so I'll have to give it a try, but I seriously like the gamepad, so I may not switch.

 

[crashbfan]

I want to talk about the Clay Pigeon. I spam this most out of all my moves. I use it to catch rolls, apply pressure, and when I get a hit, I combo into fair, fastfall and repeat.

However I feel like I am using the move wrong. I use the grounded version, and dear god the thing is incredibly punishable. With most smash attacks, even. Should I be shorthopping the clay pigeon? Does that reduce the ending lag? Should I maybe even stop spamming it and relying on it as a crutch?

 

[Spirst]

I find the SH clay pigeon to be useful since some of the momentum you have carries over if only slightly. Also, SH clay pigeons have more horizontal reach than the grounded ones do and are better in stuffing aerial approaches. Additionally, if you have a can in front of you, a SH clay pigeon will go over it instead of hitting it and slowing down. Can>Gunmen>SH clay pigeon works well in creating a little wall of projectiles. A grounded clay pigeon is useful if you do it in the opposite direction from a dash to catch people trying to chase you but if you're going for poking at someone across the stage, SH is the way to go.

 

[redou8t]

One thing about the cans ive noticed that was also a pretty cool thing was that you can keep hitting an opponent with a "bouncing can". Essentially what DHD does is everytime you press B a little crosshair comes up and a bullet 'shoots' the can.. ive noticed that against one of the larger enemies like charizard, bowser, DK etc. that you can actually hit the opponent with that bullet, and still bounce the can. Requires more testing on my end, as I've pretty much only have played 4 player matches with my friends and hardly anything else so its a bit tough to set up. But if you manage to get the opponent in range, you can press B to hit the can with the bullet that will also hit your opponent if you time it just right before the can drops on them to explode. You can hit your opponent multiple times before allowing to drop the can on them. Someone please try and confirm or let me know if anyone else has noticed this.

Another thing I've seen and have been able to pull off a couple times, you can kick your can infront of you, and hit it into the air a few times towards an opponent, throw a clay pigeon while the can is still in the air, and you can shoot the pigeon, and those 3 hits on the pigeon will also hit the can and then explode while also hitting your opponent.

Also, placing a can near edges can help your recovery, if you end up getting knocked off, you can kick the can towards opponents while your trying to land back on stage. Also works for when your high above your opponent, kick a can down to keep some distance so you dont get juggled too hard

 

[WispBae]

One thing about the cans ive noticed that was also a pretty cool thing was that you can keep hitting an opponent with a "bouncing can". Essentially what DHD does is everytime you press B a little crosshair comes up and a bullet 'shoots' the can.. ive noticed that against one of the larger enemies like charizard, bowser, DK etc. that you can actually hit the opponent with that bullet, and still bounce the can. Requires more testing on my end, as I've pretty much only have played 4 player matches with my friends and hardly anything else so its a bit tough to set up. But if you manage to get the opponent in range, you can press B to hit the can with the bullet that will also hit your opponent if you time it just right before the can drops on them to explode. You can hit your opponent multiple times before allowing to drop the can on them. Someone please try and confirm or let me know if anyone else has noticed this.

Another thing I've seen and have been able to pull off a couple times, you can kick your can infront of you, and hit it into the air a few times towards an opponent, throw a clay pigeon while the can is still in the air, and you can shoot the pigeon, and those 3 hits on the pigeon will also hit the can and then explode while also hitting your opponent.

Also, placing a can near edges can help your recovery, if you end up getting knocked off, you can kick the can towards opponents while your trying to land back on stage. Also works for when your high above your opponent, kick a can down to keep some distance so you dont get juggled too hard

Most of this is already confirmed already. The can has a sourspot when bouncing it, where it will tap the opponent and do knockback but not blow up. The sourspots are all around the edges of the can. Gotta get a direct hit or wait for the explosion to get the sweet-spotted, fire damage.

As for keeping a can on ledge, a smart player will most of the time, knock it off the edge towards you. The can also suffers from hitstun, which a lot of people don't take into consoderation, so it's not possible to counter act the can being punted away once hit. If the can is able to bounce towards an opponent, you could quickly bounce it up once as they approach to scare them or get the hit, but if the can is facing the other way, you best option is just trying to get a sourspot hit... Luckily the can is always a hotbox while in motion, so it's not too hard to land.

 

[Opana]

Sliding Duck Hunts Trick Shooter off the ledge

Minor, but it can slide off the ledge allowing an interesting shot path by the ledge.

 

[DunnoBro]

Sliding Duck Hunts Trick Shooter off the ledge

Minor, but it can slide off the ledge allowing an interesting shot path by the ledge.

Imo if this was at all useful, there's a better way to do this

Can near ledge > Purposely collide clay shot with can.

This isn't too hard as you're put in the perfect position to do it as soon as you trick shot on the ground. You will need to stutter step the clay shot though. (Luckily it's extremely easy, just hold the control stick in the proper direction just a few frames before pressing B. I know I actually do it this way on accident most of the time)

This will let them collide, and you'll need to get used to the distances to do it at but they're pretty recognizable.

There's three main trajectories this covers.

1: When the can is about the length from the ledge as if you trick shotted with your back right on the lop, this will send only the can straight down at a might quicker speed than if you kicked it. And will leave the clay shot sitting on the stage (ready to punish those popular get-up animations with it's long lasting hitbox)

2: When the can is between the above can's position and the lip, it will send both down. The can in about the same trajectory a little further horizontally, but the clay shot a loooong descent from just above the lip to about 3 duck hunt's lengths (when hanging from ledge) down.

When falling like this, the multi hits cover a lot of distance and easily catch recoveries that recover vertically. (Bowser jr, shulk, ganondorf, dedede, and rob has a difficult time with his poor mobility. It's possible to scare him away from the stage and possibly gimp him while he's further away)

Interesting but probably useless:

3: Seems very difficult to set-up, especially for different stages.

From the middle/slightly further than middle from the ledge you're aiming to guard, trick ****, and mash B 7-8 times. (Whichever you feel gets closest to the lip) Then run up and ram a clay shot into it.

This provides a new, slower trajectory for the can and a larger hitbox at a vital point.

A warning though, if the can isn't close enough to the ledge it will fall back on the stage and destroy the clay shot.

 

[DunnoBro]

I'm sure some of you may be aware of the dash/shield mechanics, but they seem pretty interesting on duck hunt.

His walk is actually pretty fast, and during the start-up of a dash, you can't shield. In matches against other zoners/projectiles where speedy approaches aren't actually needed, this seems very relevant.

His walking speed ranking is actually higher than his running speed (only by 2, he's still only upper mid-tier). For an incremental, technical character like duck hunt I feel like walking is especially something to work on. Matchups become much easier and I notice I get taken by surprise much less often while trying to sneak in on characters like rob, tink, etc by walking more, and it doesn't really effect our playstyle unless we're looking for dash grabs/punishing landings.

I'm personally hoping to work on other stuff like this while just getting back to my sense of control with my new control scheme. I think I really got it this time. But god, I feel like I'm takin 2 steps forward 5 steps back. I used to reverse short hop and retreating b-reverse full hop gunmen on the 3ds version for days with that glorious y/b controller combo. I just slid my finger between them. Ofc GCN is still better because of c-stick + more consistent tilts (not to mention tournament legality) but I just hope I can get used to Z-jump soon. I can't believe I'm struggling to relearn ****ing short hops.

Hopefully they make RAR feel less mechanical too though I never had much issue using those.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Interesting observations. I finally brought out my DHD in a serious tournament match(loser's bracket) vs Rob. The games were close, but since I took no risks last stock I missed a lot of kill opportunities. I also did not utilize all of my tools at the right times and it was also very hard for me to stay completely 100% focused because DHD took a lot more mental effort in tournament than I realized.