The Duck Hunt Competitive Smash 4 Thread

[DunnoBro]

Interesting observations. I finally brought out my DHD in a serious tournament match(loser's bracket) vs Rob. The games were close, but since I took no risks last stock I missed a lot of kill opportunities. I also did not utilize all of my tools at the right times and it was also very hard for me to stay completely 100% focused because DHD took a lot more mental effort in tournament than I realized.

Rob's a really hard matchup imo. I feel like getting the gyro early and zoning him out with projectiles while denying him his own zoning tool is effective until you need to kill him, though I haven't had the chance to practice it a lot against good Robs. Also with the new item attack AT, you can retain your fsmash at least while holding the gyro for surprise kills.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Rob's a really hard matchup imo. I feel like getting the gyro early and zoning him out with projectiles while denying him his own zoning tool is effective until you need to kill him, though I haven't had the chance to practice it a lot against good Robs. Also with the new item attack AT, you can retain your fsmash at least while holding the gyro for surprise kills.

Mmm, Idk I felt the match was even or in DHD's favor. I was just not used to Rob's upclose game and the fact that he could autocancel his nair/fair so fast into jabs/dsmash so I would try to shieldgrab/jab, but they were bad decisions. The gyro messed me up a lot, and I forgot how to grab it lol, so I will be practicing that for the next time I fight him. I didn't know the fsmash thing was still real so I will work on that. How do you do it again? I switched my cstick to tilt so Idk if I can do it like in brawl.

 

[Usopp]

@ Gadiel_VaStar Thats so true lol, i've been a DH main since midnight release and i immediately realised this is not the character to fall into auto pilot mode with and just do whatever you have to be on your toes and bring your A game.

I used to have alot of trouble with villager but i got the MU's down pretty well. villager still a somewhat up hill battle since he can pocket my can or clay disk and throw it back at me. I've also realized my edge guards have to be way more precise since villager can use his pocket move to avoid being hit my anything i use at him and safely get back on stage on top if his really good upB. But its very rewarding figuring out ways to destroy the villager off stage.

How in the world does anyone deal with rosalina and luma? i can always take a stock but its such an annoying match.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

@ Gadiel_VaStar Thats so true lol, i've been a DH main since midnight release and i immediately realised this is not the character to fall into auto pilot mode with and just do whatever you have to be on your toes and bring your A game.

I used to have alot of trouble with villager but i got the MU's down pretty well. villager still a somewhat up hill battle since he can pocket my can or clay disk and throw it back at me. I've also realized my edge guards have to be way more precise since villager can use his pocket move to avoid being hit my anything i use at him and safely get back on stage on top if his really good upB. But its very rewarding figuring out ways to destroy the villager off stage.

How in the world does anyone deal with rosalina and luma? i can always take a stock but its such an annoying match.

Hmm I have no clue honestly, I have never played the matchup before & I kinda dual main Rosa & Duck Hunt atm. I imagine it would be lots of mid range battles so she can't freely down-b. Duck Hunt's Down-B goes through Rosa's Down-b though. I don't know why, but I think it's transcendent priority or something.

 

[DunnoBro]

I really doubt it's DHD's favor. Rob has an instant projectile field wipe/endlag punish with his laser, and his gyro counters your standard anti-rushdown.

Luckily, rob is big and easy to combo. So maintaining the mid-range and being aggressive works fine enough, but if you mess up your projectile placement he can really put the hurt on you.

Essentially, don't try to force him to approach. He doesn't need to. Try to work your way to him.

And you can't do the tech without smash c-stick, well you can but with tilts. Imo DHD needs smash c-stick because his pivot/kara smash are pretty difficult without it, to me.

Need a shoulder button set to attack, and hold it down when you grab an item. Just keep holding it and you can charge an fsmash with a c-stick. let go of the shoulder button to stop charging. You can buffer to hold it again and keep fsmashing like this.

 

[crashbfan]

how do u guys feel about the MU against the new, nerfed Greninja? I've had less problems with him

 

[Usopp]

I used to have a lot of trouble against greninja. Now i just dominate mostly, unless there good at the MU then its whoever plays better. I still hate greninjas upsmash so much lol.

 

[DunnoBro]

So I just realized why I was having such trouble getting used to Z-jump shorthops compared to others who made the switch.

I never learned to short hop properly In brawl I used ganon who didn't care about uptilt so I used tap jump + c-stick. And y/a to for nairs. In 3ds, i just slid from x/y to a/b.

Wish I remembered this and could've worked on it sooner... Think I'll skip a few more events until I get at least these basic fundamentals down.

It's definitely a more fluid and easy-feeling motion when I do it right, I just gotta build that muscle memory :/ Can't wait for my month-long vacation from work to seriously level up.

 

[Arcadenik]

So... when DHD is in the air, how do we know which aerial moves is best suited for different situations? DHD's down+A is best suited for meteor smashing opponents straight down only if both of you are off the stage and your opponent is not attacking... and DHD's up+A is best suited for killing opponents when they are over 100%... but what about neutral+A and forward+A and back+A?

 

[DunnoBro]

So... when DHD is in the air, how do we know which aerial moves is best suited for different situations? DHD's down+A is best suited for meteor smashing opponents straight down only if both of you are off the stage and your opponent is not attacking... and DHD's up+A is best suited for killing opponents when they are over 100%... but what about neutral+A and forward+A and back+A?

Nair: OoS Surprises. Punishing air dodges towards you. Sometimes punishing endlag of grounded enemies for kills, but risky due to endlag of nair. Essentially, all duck hunts other aerials are pretty disjointed. Nair is for when they're super close, it hits hard, comes out fast, and stays out for a long time so also good for gimping.

Fair: Combos, follow-ups, spacing, baiting (dat disjoint) Not bad for gimping either.

Bair: Kills, RAR, Can Reverse shot tricks, and it auto cancels. Pretty straightforward as an aerial, though.

Uair: Off the top kills, combos(even into itself), punishing air dodges (stays out for a fair amount of time, also good while falling and short hopping since it covers such a wide distance with momentum)

Dair: Not really that great, but -okay- for punishing rolls to hopefully set-up for kills. Can take advantage of them dodging the can/clay shots wrong off-stage into a dair. Is multi-hit and has a decent shield poke, especially against bigger chars who use their shields more against DHD and DHD can fullhop the dair against them and be safer.

One thing I noticed, is that it seems generally better to face the stage when looking for off-stage dairs. His head/hurtbox is less exposed to a recovering opponent, and the angle/range is about the same if not better for spiking off-stage opponents. Bair is also better as a consolation for noticing you're mis-spaced than fair generally.

 

[Spirst]

http://smashboards.com/threads/acco...1-0-4-will-be-the-final-balance-patch.382837/

So, this doesn't look good for fixing DH's wonky smashes. Hopefully, it ends up fixed somehow and is perceived as a glaring issue but the future doesn't look so bright in that regard.

Edit: Possible mistranslation. Fingers crossed.

 

[SpaceJell0]

http://smashboards.com/threads/acco...1-0-4-will-be-the-final-balance-patch.382837/

So, this doesn't look good for fixing DH's wonky smashes. Hopefully, it ends up fixed somehow and is perceived as a glaring issue but the future doesn't look so bright in that regard.

Edit: Possible mistranslation. Fingers crossed.

Wait where was it stated that it might be a mistranslation?

 

[DunnoBro]

Some people believe this was less about "balance" and more about "mechanics" since he talked about specials and the last major change was vector back to DI

Changing how specials work in any way but damage is pretty significant, but smashes/aerials and throw combo editing might still be on the table.

 

[Spirst]

Wait where was it stated that it might be a mistranslation?

http://smashboards.com/threads/acco...1-0-4-will-be-the-final-balance-patch.382837/
Post 8368. Can't validate it since I can't read the original source language, Japanese, but who knows.

Some people believe this was less about "balance" and more about "mechanics" since he talked about specials and the last major change was vector back to DI

Changing how specials work in any way but damage is pretty significant, but smashes/aerials and throw combo editing might still be on the table.

Smashes/aerials/throw editing seems very plausible. With Nintendo sponsoring Apex, I'm certain a close eye will be kept on the current state of the game.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

It'll probably be in disagreement, but I think dsmash is Duck Hunt's best smash. As far as I know fsmash DOES kill earlier, but it's also much less reliable in some matchups with less than average weight combinations, and it also only truly connects properly on everyone when done near the ledge.

Dsmash almost always connects all three times, and IF it doesn't, the first hit has very high knockback, enough to cause stage spikes near the ledge or send them so far behind you that they're already offstage and sometimes even below the stage's level. It also covers your front better than fsmash does at times and covers some roll options.

Usmash is great, but it doesn't really...work that well in the situations I'm talking about. I've grabbed some kills from people coming down in bad spots, but not mostly on grounded folk. Usmash is better when grabbing kills that are guaranteed, since you can do it out of a run and it'll kill better than dsmash.

Using it when a can is right next to you is pretty awesome.

 

[Spirst]

It'll probably be in disagreement, but I think dsmash is Duck Hunt's best smash. As far as I know fsmash DOES kill earlier, but it's also much less reliable in some matchups with less than average weight combinations, and it also only truly connects properly on everyone when done near the ledge.

Dsmash almost always connects all three times, and IF it doesn't, the first hit has very high knockback, enough to cause stage spikes near the ledge or send them so far behind you that they're already offstage and sometimes even below the stage's level. It also covers your front better than fsmash does at times and covers some roll options.

Usmash is great, but it doesn't really...work that well in the situations I'm talking about. I've grabbed some kills from people coming down in bad spots, but not mostly on grounded folk. Usmash is better when grabbing kills that are guaranteed, since you can do it out of a run and it'll kill better than dsmash.

Using it when a can is right next to you is pretty awesome.

Another good thing about dsmash is that, according to the frame data, it hits on frame 7 as opposed to the fsmash which hits on frame 12. For some perspective, the dsmash comes out a frame earlier than both the utilt and ftilt and is 1 frame behind the dtilt. For a purely KO smash, fsmash>dsmash but in ease of use, dsmash is superior.

 

[Dooms]

I've never had dsmash fully connect for me actually. It also has never really put me in a better position after hitting someone with just the first hit. Seems like I need to work with it way more. I'll try it out at the tournament I'm going to this weekend.

I really like OoS Usmash as an option. I don't fish for it, but whenever I see the opportunity, I take it. Catching airdodges into the ground with Usmash is also very nice, and I've never had a problem with Usmash not connecting if the first hit lands, so it's my go to smash for punishing if the first hit will land. Should I change that? >_<

 

[crashbfan]

guys I hate to say it but I believe DHD's smashes are inconsistent on purpose. It might be meant to solidify his weakness of not being able to kill as early as some others. plus upsmash is consistent enough as well as dsmash. just seems like the side smashes aren't as good .

 

[Diamond DHD]

guys I hate to say it but I believe DHD's smashes are inconsistent on purpose. It might be meant to solidify his weakness of not being able to kill as early as some others. plus upsmash is consistent enough as well as dsmash. just seems like the side smashes aren't as good .

Sakurai has said that he wants to get rid of a lot of the random aspects of Smash Bros., with only Mr. Game & Watch being an exception, so I don't see why there would be an attack that only works 50% of the time. It is a possibility that it is done on purpose though.

Also, I have been using dsmash a lot more often recently, it makes Duck Hunt to be a dangerous target to attack knowing a shot could fly out at any moment and come out very quickly. I've used it in conjunction with gunmen, Trick Shot and dash dancing to make Duck Hunt difficult to approach so I can throw out aerials and dash attacks when they finally make an attempt to.

 

[crashbfan]

after fighting a lot of Captain Falcons & Ganondorf (to a less extent) offline AND online, I have to say those dudes are going to be really troublesome for us. and this might sound crazy, but I think Ganon might even be a worse matchup than the Cpt. Ganon throws around the barrel like it's nothing and really kind of denies our strategy of stage control. we will probably find things in the future but this is how I feel about them right now.

 

[DunnoBro]

No lol

Just don't take ganon to battlefield and he cant get in and has nowhere to hide. Falcon might be an issue, but I mean I don't see how aside from when he gets in.

Also, with the new applications of perfect pivots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vaR4RM-qr0

Duck hunt seems to have a pretty high tier perfect pivot.

Perfect pivot utilt might have some potential. Combo starter, and kill move. Though I think we really need smash c-stick for regular pivot and kara smashing, which seem to be just as effective but way easier than this.

PP downsmash is interesting too. Maybe upsmash. He also has a good enough jab for punishing rolls. Imo it's more consistent than downsmash, so unless it's kill time i think pp jab might be the best get-up punish.

 

[Spirst]

Yeah, I don't see how Ganon will be an issue for us. A tall hurtbox=lol pigeon fodder and his slow mobility means he's not going to be getting in all that often. Hurts when he does though. Falcon can be bothersome when he builds momentum and applies a lot of pressure but he also suffers from getting walled out though unlike Ganon, it's not as big an issue because of his ground speed.

I'd seen that perfect pivot video and really like the applications it could have for the PP dsmash. 4.5/6 is pretty good. I hadn't considered PP jab (4 frame jab I believe) but I could see that working too. PP jab>grab>fthrow>RAR bair/fair sounds like a good roll punish in theory that would give us over 20%.

Though maybe useless, I wonder if a PP clay pigeon toss could be used for spacing. I need to go play around with this in training mode to see what benefits we can reap.

 

[crashbfan]

can you guys explain why sheik is supposedly a bad matchup for us? I've had no trouble with her, she seems like a less-threatening version of ZSS.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Needles kill every projectile you have except gunmen. She's stupidly fast and can be wherever she needs to be to hunt you down before you're even finished putting one can out. Her moves are all faster than yours, and even kill faster than yours (the duck has a hurtbox, mind you).

It's pretty much about her being fast as ****. Same as why Falcon can be very hard to fight; they're just so fast that moving alongside cans becomes what you have to fall back on just to give yourself the right positioning to shut off their options.

That reminds me; experiment with walking alongside cans. You can tilt the stick forward far enough to only walk and not run, but still press B to trigger a neutralB and not sideb, letting you bounce the can right inside your own hurtbox. It's helped me get a little bit of space on people like Sonic and Sheik since they can't just run at me and hit me while the can is there.

 

[Diamond DHD]

I've never had a problem with Shiek, the needles aren't a problem as long as you aren't camping since they only cover the area in front of her. If customs are active, put Mega Gunman and Trick Shot out on platforms to keep them on their toes and keep control of the stage, keep at Marth-ish range, throw out aerials, use Clay Pigeon if they attempt to go defensive and start rolling, use the lingering shots to cover it then go in for a grab, then combo with aerials and dash attacks. Quick Gunman is also great, perhaps better than Mega Gunman, so use that and while you have less stage control, you can take out Shiek incredibly quickly.

If they are total rushdown and it's For Glory (so flat stage, no customs, etc) then I imagine it being a bad matchup, but that's down to a bad stage matchup. Omega is totally bad for DHD IMO, it forces camping since it's flat it's difficult to control the stage and keep on the move.

I'll try out walking alongside the can, but I play games with customs, and in that case against someone like Sonic, Quick Gunman will take them out anyway.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Something else I've been experimenting with; using the can offstage, however in a different way now. If you kick and shoot the can just right and hit it along the underside of the stage, it can bounce back onto the stage despite having been shot in a direction that would make it pop away from the underside. What this means is it covers stage spikes (however you'll probably be stage spiked anyway, just now you have a way to hit them during it and put them at risk of spiking), covers your ledgegrab, and stops some edgeguarding options. It also sets a can up right in front of you when you're coming up.

Here's a video.

 

[WispBae]

Something else I've been experimenting with; using the can offstage, however in a different way now. If you kick and shoot the can just right and hit it along the underside of the stage, it can bounce back onto the stage despite having been shot in a direction that would make it pop away from the underside. What this means is it covers stage spikes (however you'll probably be stage spiked anyway, just now you have a way to hit them during it and put them at risk of spiking), covers your ledgegrab, and stops some edgeguarding options. It also sets a can up right in front of you when you're coming up.

Here's a video.

Cananigans... I don't even...

It makes me wonder if Can cold be good at stage spiking, since it hugs the wall... Maybe like a short hop off ledge to a b-reversed can.

I've also been experimenting, in a mind game sense, with Clays. I'll soft toss one, knowing it won't hit, but let it linger on the ground. People, seeing an "opening" would rush in, then you trigger Clay, free damage. If they don't rush in, it gives you a chance to set up a can or approach with a short hop gunmen (my favorite approach).

 

[Spirst]

Can could be good at stage spiking if you hit someone recovering offstage with a bair Can. It HAS to be a bair can (or utilt can if you hit while facing away from the opponent) since the Can will pop backwards rather than the direction in which it was initially hit. If you do a fair/ftilt/dtilt Can, it'll pop towards the blastzone rather than the direction of the stage. I've found this to be very useful when edgeguarding/messing with the opponent since if they grab the ledge, you can quickly pop the Can back onto the stage.

As for lingering clays, I'd been doing that too and I find it to be good for assessing how they react to it. If they linger in the shield too long, you can try going for a grab. I've found that at times, if I get grabbed from an approach with a lingering clay right by me, I can detonate the clay pigeon and escape the grab.

 

[DunnoBro]

No video but I also have some cananigans to share.

Reverse trick shot findings:

Sweet and SourSpot Reverse Shot: Trick shot from the ground, then time a standing dash attack (going from dash to dash attack asap) so you hit it just as the can is landing. When done right, the can will go forward, in the direction you dashed. HOWEVER, when you shoot it, it will be in the reverse direction, towards you. Not sure exactly why, but it seems to take the trajectory from the sweetspot but consider it a sourspot, since it makes the sour noise when it hits.

This is quicker than sh rar bairing it, and puts it at a higher, more radical angle. Also regular sourspot dash attacking it results in it going behind you, thus you'd need to put the can AWAY from your opponent and dash attack AWAY from them. They have their situations but not so much in the neutral game.

With bair, the very horizontal trajectory either results in a miss, a hit, or most likely a hit on shield. With a miss, once grounded the can has rather poor movement options, but this keeps it in the air with a very floaty and mobile pressure, and a longer lasting hitbox.

Can Elevator: (Similar to Guy's stage bouncing, but safer and quicker) Trick shot so that the can will sit near but not on the very tip of the ledge. Then, do a single dash/fox trot and stop, then utilt. If you were close enough to the ledge, the can will rise before falling below the ledge, however when you shoot it again it will be reverse shots. So once it falls down enough, it can climb back up some stages by bouncing against the edges like you kicked it right against them. Generally, by the time it makes it back up to the lip, it will begin flashing and drop straight down again.

I recommend throwing out a gunmen directly after the utilt, while the can is falling and thus putting out more hitboxes. If spaced right, the gunmen will fall below the stage so it can threaten horizontally while the can stays in about the same vertical pattern for 3 cycles (down, up, then down again)

*Only on the way down the first time will it stage spike, or at least have the trajectory to hit them into the stage.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Cananigans... I don't even...

It makes me wonder if Can cold be good at stage spiking, since it hugs the wall... Maybe like a short hop off ledge to a b-reversed can.

 

[Spirst]

Well that was unexpected.

Unrelated, but I'm planning on making a thread to replace this one that has a useful OP. It'll be the hub for metagame/technique discussion like this one but with a little more focus/updated information. The format will be similar to this one: http://smashboards.com/threads/myst...echniques-thread-updated-12-12-14-ats.368764/
I should have it up by the end of this weekend assuming I don't somehow die or anything.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

No video

I gotchu. The utilt in front of the can thing is new to me though. That's awesome.

 

[DunnoBro]

I gotchu. The utilt in front of the can thing is new to me though. That's awesome.

**** I didn't know clay shotting with the can to your back moved it. How were you able to get them to go into the same direction at 0:30 though?

Also, been testing heavily with gunmen and the clay shot recently. There's HUGE kill-setup potential with those. Like, at the right percents and ranges, landing the clay shot is a guaranted kill combo I think. After being aware of and trying for it, people on the smashladder and aib ladder haven't been able to get out of it anyway.

Declayed shot combos:

For clay shot, you need to have JUST the clay shot hit the opponent. Not the shots. They also need to be at higher percents otherwise they won't be kept high enough for the delayed shots to hit them. The delayed timing gives DHD more time to chase where they will go in hitstun. The hard part killing with this, is if they don't DI High, you need to RAR a bair otherwise you just get a fair.

Also, on heavy big characters, as well as fast fallers, you can also delay the shots into dair if they don't di up.

About 80% of my kills now are via these combos. I just started getting the timing down a few days ago, but it's definitely worth it.

Furthermore, notice how the clay shot bounces off shields, and hovers a little bit in front of the shield it bounced off in the air? If for some reason they go into the range for it, it locks them down and you can get a free upsmash. Overall it's dependent on them being stupid though, but I think we might be able to set-up for it. Maybe with gunmen or cans, or some sort of baiting.

Covering Fire:
Normally when you gunmen, they go in front of you. However, if you do a rising short hop gunmen with your aerial momentum in the direction of your downb, the dog will land IN FRONT of the gunmen by the time his endlag finishes.

I haven't gotten very good at using it yet, I'm having trouble consistently short hopping it and still have trouble seeing the ideal times to try using it, but it DOES set-up for kills at high percents, the gunmen hits have really low knockback. The delay of the shot and the dog being that much closer to them means free uairs/nairs/rar bair kills. You also generally have enough time to throw out a fair or other aerials right when they shoot to punish shield jumps, and way more time to go up and grab.

*My main usage of this is can > SH gunmen. The gunmen land just barely behind the can enough to hit it. I think this also sends the can at a higher, floatier level. This works as a great anti-aerial and makes it much harder for characters like rosalina, dr mario, etc to prepare to deal with your can since they're going to come AFTER your body does.

*This is also helpful for edgeguarding as the dog will fall off the ledge if done right, while the gunmen and can will stay on. The gunmen shoots at high recoveries, sends down the can for diagonal, and you can punish where they go. This feels and looks WAY more aggressive and difficult to deal with then just kicking the can.

I truly believe rising short hopping the gunmen, and delaying the clay shot are the key to getting out kills. They very consistently set up for kills.

Reverse shotting the can also sets up for kills since it hits opponents to you, but I'm still so bad at doing it. I'm getting better though, and since duck hunt is mostly a technical character with plans and set-ups that apply, I think practicing them against low level CPUs is the best way to start getting used to them.

 

[DunnoBro]

Actually, for the sour and sweetspot reverse shot, i found it's by far easier to try dash attacking it if you shoot it one immediately after trick shotting. I don't know if it's the range, the timing, or the shot can's properties, but I could do it 10/10 times in training vs the 3/10 of the trick to immediate dash attack. Also since there is endlag to kicking the can that you can shoot it during, it's not any slower.

The timing just seems a lot more forgiving. I think that -maybe- it's because his sourspot more pronounced at this range.

 

[Spirst]

I agree, the timing is a lot more forgiving. You lose out on the wider arc though because each Can shot makes the Can travel less distance. If you do this from neutral positions on FD, one shot in the can before the reverse shot will make it fly in a more narrow arc and will hit the other player if they haven't moved from the default position as opposed to going straight to the dash attack from the Can kick which will go behind them and land on the edge. I think the positioning may actually be more ideal with the former since it gives less time to react and as you said, it's easier to pull off. Also, the ending placement of the Can closer to DH just seems better overall in case they get too close.

I'm also curious about the clay pigeon launching the Can like that, Guy. I'm assuming it has something to do with the Clay Pigeon having an active hitbox as soon as it's spawned before DH even throws it? Actually, this kind of looks like the momentum-retainment property the Can sometimes has except activated from the Clay Pigeon toss. Hmm...

 

[DunnoBro]

I agree, the timing is a lot more forgiving. You lose out on the wider arc though because each Can shot makes the Can travel less distance. If you do this from neutral positions on FD, one shot in the can before the reverse shot will make it fly in a more narrow arc and will hit the other player if they haven't moved from the default position as opposed to going straight to the dash attack from the Can kick which will go behind them and land on the edge. I think the positioning may actually be more ideal with the former since it gives less time to react and as you said, it's easier to pull off. Also, the ending placement of the Can closer to DH just seems better overall in case they get too close.

I didn't catch the change in the arc at all, wow.

Yea, I think it's definitely even more beneficial at that arc, not just for hitting a non-moving target, but since it falls to that trajectory on it's own and can be hovered back to the dog with reverse shots at a low angle across the stage.

It also seems to be the best way to go from square zero to getting a reverse shot can off the stage. Very fast, fluid, and the arc lets you decide between a diagonal trajectory, a straight down/up one, or to get the can back onto the stage after it passes the ledge with momentum canceling. (to deal with horizontal recoveries onto stage)

Would definitely need to get used to following up though, as this would either stage spike them, or bring them back to the stage. Also find which characters would be best to used this on. Probably not characters that actually worry about being gimped like little mac, ganon, link, diddy, etc and that try to get back to the stage ASAP, but more characters like r.o.b., dedede, etc who generally try to be tricky with their recoveries and the timing of it.

Though it could also just be a generally good edgeguard mix-up.

Rosalina is an especially interesting one in theory, since the can will hover with stage spiking potential in her recovery trajectory for quite a while.

My dream combo right now is probably reverse shot can into dair spike lol.

 

[Spirst]

Unrelated, but I'm planning on making a thread to replace this one that has a useful OP. It'll be the hub for metagame/technique discussion like this one but with a little more focus/updated information.
I should have it up by the end of this weekend assuming I don't somehow die or anything.

And by end of this weekend, I of course meant "middle of the week."

New thread replacement is up with a useful OP. Take it over there: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-dog-house-duck-hunt-moveset-at-thread-metagame-discussion.384069/