The Disappearance of the C-Stick?

[Big-Cat]

This has been in my head for some time. For the record, let me just say that I think the C-Stick was dumb from the get go and is an execution handicap that otherwise allows things that are otherwise impossible (unless that was intended).

With that out of the way, let's look at what we're going to have for the next game. We all know it'll be coming out for both the Wii U and the 3DS. Let's look at the Pro Controller.

As we can see, this controller has all the buttons needed to play Melee and Brawl, including a second analog stick.

Now, for the 3DS.

This is where the problem comes in. We're not only missing the trigger buttons, but we're also missing a second analog stick. Yes, there will be an accessory to allow a second analog stick, but we have to buy this accessory and I doubt it will come with this accessory as games that support it like Kingdom Hearts will have been out for some time by the time this game comes out.

So why not just make the two games different? Well, I can't see that happening. While I think there will be differences between the two versions, I can't see the game mechanics being any different. This would mean you have to create two versions of the roster to accommodate this difference when it comes to balance. A big thing with this game that Sakurai wants to do is interconnectivity. Therefore, it's safe to assume that the games will play the same.

Your thoughts on this possibility?

 

[Conviction]

Make the second analog stick able to have C-stick capabilities and we'll all be good.

Idk how to fix the DS problem though LOL

 

[DakotaBonez]

Madcats is making their own WiiU Pro controller

Problem solved.
Now if only there was a big A and B Button next to the abxy buttons so I could use it like an N64 controller.

 

[Big-Cat]

Make the second analog stick able to have C-stick capabilities and we'll all be good.

Idk how to fix the DS problem though LOL

As I said in the OP, the pro controller is more than capable of it. The problem is with the 3DS. The question is how do you adjust for the difference? Do you make new mechanics that make the C-Stick obsolete or just pretend like it never happened?

 

[gothrax]

Why would you say the 3ds dosnt have trigger buttons? It has camL/R

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The Circle Pad Pro accessory could be implemented onto Smash 4's 3DS version.

 

[Pseudomaniac]

The Wii Remote didn't have a C-stick either, but it was still usable by GameCube controllers in Brawl.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Well, there is the Circle Pad Pro (which currently doesn't work on the upcoming 3DS XL) so that can help out.

But I don't think the 3DS version controls is doomed just because it doesn't have all the buttons as other Smash game controllers. I say this because I own a 3DS game that downright plagiarizes Super Smash Bros. (not just a little but almost everything): Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion. The game only gives you four premade control schemes but Type A is my favorite (in fact, when I get Smash 3DS, I'm gonna make my control scheme copy Punch Time Explosion's). Here is the game's control scheme for Type A:

Control Pad - Move (this game has no taunting)
Circle Pad - Move
Start Button - Pause
Touch Screen - Punch Time Explosion (the game's version of Final Smash)
A Button - Grab / Pickup item / Interact
B Button - Normal Attack
X Button - Jump
Y Button - Special Attack
L Button - Shield
R Button - Shield

The other control scheme are not that different from Type A, like two of them has the Grab button became one of the shoulder buttons (one Type puts it on the L Button and the other on the R Button). So even without the second circle pad or second pair of shoulder buttons, I don't think Smash 3D will have any major control issues.

 

[Conviction]

The Wii Remote didn't have a C-stick either, but it was still usable by GameCube controllers in Brawl.

This is true. Which is why, solo wiimote sucked among other reasons.

As I said in the OP, the pro controller is more than capable of it. The problem is with the 3DS. The question is how do you adjust for the difference? Do you make new mechanics that make the C-Stick obsolete or just pretend like it never happened?

The Circle Pad Pro accessory could be implemented onto Smash 4's 3DS version.

I guess this would solve the problem.

 

[Big-Cat]

You had the C-Stick on the Wiimote-Nunchaku by using the motion controls.

And that doesn't necessarily solve the problem as it would be a required accessory ala Wiimotion+. Well, it wouldn't be required to most users, but anyone wanting to use the stick will be forced to buy one.

 

[yahyakun]

for 3ds it will be pretty hard to play without c stick.
but for wii u, it will be pretty easy even without gc controller cuz mad catz controller looks pretty much like ps2 controller and its all good like that.

im pretty skilled with this ps2 controller. ive beaten pro players with it while they are using a gc controller. but i cant play as fox/falco with it. its pretty hard to handle shields.

 

[Dexident]

I think that new controller looks absolutely lame. I personally think the gamecube controller is one of the best controllers that has been made.

This new one looks like an Xbox controller.

I never use the C-stick anyway, I think it is lame.

But this new controller... is lamer. /ingorant and biased statement

Seriously though, I am very worried about this new smash bros....

 

[yani]

Well, it wouldn't be required to most users, but anyone wanting to use the stick will be forced to buy one.

Business wise, this is genius for Nintendo. It would make the CPP sell like hotcakes.

 

[BSP]

For the record, let me just say that I think the C-Stick was dumb from the get go and is an execution handicap that otherwise allows things that are otherwise impossible (unless that was intended).

Really? I like the C-stick :\

 

[Tailisu10]

The C-Stick isn't THAT important. It was only used for moves than can be perfectly done with the other buttons.

 

[Pseudomaniac]

The C-Stick isn't THAT important. It was only used for moves than can be perfectly done with the other buttons.

It was used for a lot of advanced techniques in both games (most importantly being able to use an aerial in one direction while going in the other direction, or using DAirs without fastfalling).

 

[Big-Cat]

Something tells me that's doable without a C-Stick with proper execution - like not holding the input for so long.

 

[Bones0]

You can't FF and uair at the same time without the C-stick. Outside of that, it is simply a vastly superior way of inputting attacks as opposed to stick+button combinations. If you made it so you could click the C-stick by pushing it in (Xbox and PS controllers have had this for years), then you could do all 5 aerials, all 3 smash attacks, both types of grabs, and dash attacks with a single stick.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Something tells me that's doable without a C-Stick with proper execution - like not holding the input for so long.

Ignoring that in order to get the same spacing precision without a C-stick you'd need superhuman 1-frame capabilities, sure.

 

[Conviction]

Even then that one frame input would still take away from the movement you were doing because the C-stick wouldn't have inputted a counter motion to most aerials.

Drift forward while Bairing for example.

 

[LydianAlchemist]

I'm seeing a lot of C STICK IS FOR NOOBS comments. -__-

Like the two previous posts stated, c stick was always extremely useful.
for what the previous posters have mentioned as well as for DI.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei-iOIN32i4
A tool that you didn't utilize for whatever reason doesn't invalidate it's existence.

There was more to the C stick than
"oh I can't do smash attacks the *regular* way so I'll *cheat*"
"hey no cheating! noob!"
even when viewed as *cheating* that is just as much of a cop-out as calling something cheap. C-stick is more efficient plain and simple.

I can see them integrating it with the classic controller pro for wii u. Also the wii remotes and peripherals for them work with the wiiu iirc, so classic pros for the 1st wii will work as well.

Who knows, maybe regular the "direction+A" formula for executing smash attacks will be removed, and it will be more of a cstick+z to charge sort of thing?

 

[LLDL]

I'm straight

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

We don't even know how similar the new game will be to Melee or Brawl yet, so there's really not a reason to even talk about this stuff just yet...

But assuming the controls and mechanics are the same between Brawl and Smash 4, Smash 3ds doesn't even need a c-stick. It's entirely possible to play the game without it, and people who use alternate controllers in Brawl often do. And if you want a c-stick (for all your pro Smash 3ds tournament games) you can buy a CPP.

 

[teluoborg]

Personnally i'm more afraid of the disparition of controller wires than the C stick's.

Seeing how ONE wiimote connection can screw up multiple TVs in a tournament, I tremble in fear at the idea of every player in the using one.

 

[Jockmaster]

Yeah but there hasn't been a console besides wii (for obvious reasons) who hasn't offered a wired controller. Anything that isn't motion-based SHOULD have a wired controller imo

 

[Big-Cat]

That's probably not going to be a concern. Either Nintendo or a third party will provide wired pro controllers or some variation of it like the Madcatz FPS controller by using the USB ports.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'm straight

My biggest concern with these off brand controllers is that they tend to lack a dead zone and their Z-buttons more "click" in than press down easily.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Smash 64 didn't have a C stick. Also, if the game isn't as fast paced as Melee then I think it will be less of a problem, Still unfortunate though.

 

[lordvaati]

for all we know, the button format of the games will be changed anyway because it's on new controllers, like what they did from 64 to Melee. so the C-stick function may be removed altogether.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Bones
Are you saying that pushing the C-stick "down" could be both the neutral air, a grab button, and for grab hits=???

If so, that really would make simpler, for both casual and competitive smashers.

The only other needed button would be Z for Z-airs, the L and R buttons for shielding, the control pad for taunt buttons (lulz), the control stick, the start button to pause!

Business wise, this is genius for Nintendo. It would make the CPP sell like hotcakes.

Yep. If Nintendo packaged it with Smash 3DS (or had it to where both could be bought together), that would be a perfect way to get people to use it, too.

 

[gothrax]

Well, there is the Circle Pad Pro (which currently doesn't work on the upcoming 3DS XL) so that can help out.

But I don't think the 3DS version controls is doomed just because it doesn't have all the buttons as other Smash game controllers. I say this because I own a 3DS game that downright plagiarizes Super Smash Bros. (not just a little but almost everything): Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion. The game only gives you four premade control schemes but Type A is my favorite (in fact, when I get Smash 3DS, I'm gonna make my control scheme copy Punch Time Explosion's). Here is the game's control scheme for Type A:

Control Pad - Move (this game has no taunting)
Circle Pad - Move
Start Button - Pause
Touch Screen - Punch Time Explosion (the game's version of Final Smash)
A Button - Grab / Pickup item / Interact
B Button - Normal Attack
X Button - Jump
Y Button - Special Attack
L Button - Shield
R Button - Shield

The other control scheme are not that different from Type A, like two of them has the Grab button became one of the shoulder buttons (one Type puts it on the L Button and the other on the R Button). So even without the second circle pad or second pair of shoulder buttons, I don't think Smash 3D will have any major control issues.

The thing is most people forget the 3ds's other (more interesting) uses like the touch screen or more importantly the inward cam, with the touch screen you could easily add taunt buttons :/ but the cam has a face recognizer so the cstick could be replaced with the flick of your head?

Oh and dont make the grab botton A just make it shield plus attack or Lcam+Rcam

 

[Pivot]

We don't even know the physics of this game. We arent sure there will be 5 aerials, and don't know for sure there will be smash attacks.

So in a way, no C-stick could make absolutely no difference.

 

[lordvaati]

^ my point exactly.

it's like think Mario Galaxy was going to play just like Sunshine.

 

[Johnknight1]

We don't even know the physics of this game. We arent sure there will be 5 aerials, and don't know for sure there will be smash attacks.

LOL, well judging how there were aerials and smash attacks in Smash 64, Melee, and Brawl, there is plenty of reason to have logical faith they will return, because they've come back ever time. I have the same logical faith that the sun will rise in the morning and set in the evening because it has done so for my entire life without fail.

Not just that, but such a concept makes no sense. If you we eliminate aerials and smash attacks, each character would only have tilts, specials, and grab-related moves. Literally that would eliminate half of the offensive arsenal of every character. We'd be stripped to just 8 attacks and a grab. That would be less offense than most smash fan games!

So in a way, no C-stick could make absolutely no difference.

Yes, it would make sense in a game with no more attacks! We can call it "Super Smash Bros. jump around all day" or "Super Mario Bros: Do Nothing!"

 

[lordvaati]

Smashes will return,but the auto-Smash option may not.

because being real here..they used it for the freaking camera in everything except Vs.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I think we're going to have to revoke John's smiley privileges.

Who are "they," vaati?

 

[lordvaati]

the creators? because in Event, Classic, Stadium, etc. C-stick was just for Camera. just look no further then the millions of people still pissed you can't use it in training mode.

 

[Kink-Link5]

C-stick is used in the 1player modes in Bawrl.

 

[Johnknight1]

the auto-Smash option may not return.

because being real here..they used it for the freaking camera in everything except Vs.

Ummm, no. The C-stick is useable in every mode in Brawl, including single-player modes. Besides, even casual players use the C-stick, and taking that away would hinder the game. Seriously, why would you want it to control the screen when you are playing with another player, or two, or three=??? That would be one effed up camera!

Something tells me you didn't consider that as a possibility. You don't want to have to battle people for camera angle! That would be stupid!

 

[aba1]

I never really used the C-stick but I would rather the remotes stagered the control sticks like the xbox did or how the madcats demo looks