The Disappearance of the C-Stick?

[Bames-Jond]

Assuming the second joy-stick does what the c-stick did, it won't be very hard to make adjustment. Now instead of moving my thumb down I'll just be moving it up.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

In Melee, you couldn't use the C-Stick to execute smash attacks in the 1 player game modes, so it was good that Brawl fixed up that flaw.

At least for the next generation of controllers, the Right Control Stick can act as the C-Stick.

 

[MechaWave]

The Circle Pad Pro will probably be an accessory included with the 3DS version of Smash 4, or just an enhancement to gameplay to those that purchase it. There can be a bundled version which would probably cost a bit more; I'd be fine with that.

As M&SG said, you couldn't execute smash attacks with the C-stick in 1-player modes in Melee. It could work the same way for Smash 4 on the 3DS unless one uses the Circle Pad Pro.

 

[Frostwraith]

The Circle Pad Pro will probably be an accessory included with the 3DS version of Smash 4, or just an enhancement to gameplay to those that purchase it. There can be a bundled version which would probably cost a bit more; I'd be fine with that.

As M&SG said, you couldn't execute smash attacks with the C-stick in 1-player modes in Melee. It could work the same way for Smash 4 on the 3DS unless one uses the Circle Pad Pro.

could use the Circle Pad Pro for Smash attacks, and the touch screen could always do that as well. they could put some customizable controls for the touch screen (like taunts, smashes or grabs), not unlike Street Fighter IV for 3DS.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Wait a sec! What if you could assign the C-Stick for the tilt attacks!?!
I mean it's difficult to do a tilt attack and sometimes if you're in a rush you pull off a smash attack by mistake.
And if you have tap jump on half the time you'll end up jumping instead of tilting.
Plus it makes more sense to use the C-Stick for tilt attacks because you can't charge you're attacks with the C-Stick. Then again maybe they will finally implement the C-Stick properly by making it so that the Smash attack is performed after you Release the C-Stick. That way you can charge it by holding it in a direction.

I'm referring to the second Analog Stick/ Circle Pad whatevers as the C-Stick.

 

[Kink-Link5]

The Circle Pad Pro will probably be an accessory included with the 3DS version of Smash 4, or just an enhancement to gameplay to those that purchase it. There can be a bundled version which would probably cost a bit more; I'd be fine with that.

As M&SG said, you couldn't execute smash attacks with the C-stick in 1-player modes in Melee. It could work the same way for Smash 4 on the 3DS unless one uses the Circle Pad Pro.

ITT: High Expectations.

 

[MechaWave]

could use the Circle Pad Pro for Smash attacks, and the touch screen could always do that as well. they could put some customizable controls for the touch screen (like taunts, smashes or grabs), not unlike Street Fighter IV for 3DS.

Actually, that makes much more sense and is more likely to happen, since Sakurai likes to use the features of the console.

Touch screen smashes could work, but if a match is really heated, it'd be hard to quickly reflex from buttons to the touch screen just to perform a smash attack when you could just hold the circle pad and A button to do it. (Implying the 3DS version has some multiplayer connectivity.)

 

[Carlo_H.Luz]

Like TLOZ SS needed a Wii Remote Plus, I think SSB4 would need the Circle Pad Pro. If this is needed no doubt that all SSB fans would buy the accesory immediately. No doubt

 

[rawrimamonster]

Yknow...I haven't thought about it, and its a good point (besides the scrubby cstick hate) I know people will be all defensive saying "NO NO! NO! YOU'RE WRONG WE HAVE THE CIRCLEPAD PRO HUR HA HURR F YOU" but...without the 2nd stick, and with the 3DS being a handheld. Wouldn't it make a bit of sense if because of this we returned to 64 ish roots? I mean maybe we'll get cstickish support with CPP but its doubt-able since its not a peripheral they can enforce as a standard...nintendo's never done this with peripherals outside of fourswords and FFCC,but those weren't main series/big money rakers like smash is. Because of that I think we might see this with the 3DS version. Especially since it was stated that the 3DS smash and WiiU smash will be pretty different games.

Guess we'll have to hope they screw up and try to nerf smash again like they did with the transition from 64 to melee and end up making a incredibly deep game.

 

[Gene]

Smash 3DS should use the touchscreen as a c stick. If it turns out being a smash 64 like game then I'm okay with this.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Both games will be identical as far as physics are concerned. Different models will make some difference, but the games should feel pretty much the same as one another.

 

[SubparSmashBrother]

Both games will be identical as far as physics are concerned. Different models will make some difference, but the games should feel pretty much the same as one another.

YOU KNOW THIS HOW?? THIS IS BASED ON NO EVIDENCE AT ALL YOU'RE GOING TO BE SO DISAPPOINTED

(^this is what you sound like)

 

[Master Knight DH]

I'd want to see the power system from Kid Icarus Uprising. That would quickly clog the C-Stick (equivalent) for a useful purpose, namely a freaking better method of handling knockback, like what happened with the Super Armor power there.

Not to mention I'd rather have Smashes require some effort anyway.

 

[Kink-Link5]

YOU KNOW THIS HOW?? THIS IS BASED ON NO EVIDENCE AT ALL YOU'RE GOING TO BE SO DISAPPOINTED

(^this is what you sound like)

Sakurai has stated so. Surprised is the inverse of disappointed.

It isn't how I sound, adynata are ********, and you aren't very good at rhetoric.

 

[D-idara]

Maybe you people can stop being noobs and start using tilt+A for Smash attacks?

 

[El Duderino]

Never understood players who complain when someone masters some skillful technique, then turn around and call people noobs for using the c-stick. You would think they would appreciate the accessibility of it, but no, they can be just as snooty when an opportunity rises.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Oh but CStick can't be used in Melee's 1P modes

It's just a bug.

 

[PIKA321]

Honestly, I find the C stick to be very cheap and noobish, and I never use it unless me and my friends deside we want to have a just-for-fun-what-the-heck-match.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Unless one has the capability to jump, move the control stick forward, hit A, and then hit backward in 1 frame, C-stick is an essential component to maximize spacing ability, and nothing about having an accessible tool is "noobish." You should seriously rethink your view on this game, playing to win, use of tactics in a competitive game, and video games in general.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Yea, I don't see anything wrong with the C-stick I feel like only Noobs are the only ones who complain.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Using the C-Stick or Right Control Stick makes it easier to execute certain moves. However, Brawl messed up by making you fast fall if you use the d-air.

 

[PIKA321]

I also find items cheap but that's a whole different subject. Plus you can't use the C stick in SSB64, so why get used to using the C stick in Melee (not even Melee in the 1P modes) and Brawl and the not be able to use it in 64? If you base your strategy on the C stick then you'll suck in 64. That's just my opinion.

 

[Kink-Link5]

If you base your playstyle on anything about Melee or Brawl you'll suck at Smash64 because it's a different game with a different engine, different physics, different characters with different movesets, different mechanics, and an entirely different stage list.

 

[PIKA321]

You make a good point but like a I said that's just my opinion.

 

[Kink-Link5]

An opinion and a hypothesis aren't quite the same thing

 

[Plushies4Ever]

The C-Stick isn't THAT important. It was only used for moves than can be perfectly done with the other buttons.

This. All my this.

 

[Wizzrobe]

This. All my this.

It makes ariels easier because when holding a direction in midair it will make you move in that direction when you might not want too. For example, when pressing down in mid air you will fast fall and when pressing up you will jump. C-stick makes doing those moves easier without having to do actions that you don't want to do.

 

[Master Knight DH]

It makes ariels easier because when holding a direction in midair it will make you move in that direction when you might not want too. For example, when pressing down in mid air you will fast fall and when pressing up you will jump. C-stick makes doing those moves easier without having to do actions that you don't want to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xODlUr6JMtc
I use plenty of Up Airs there without triggering the Tap Jump, some mixed with Short Hopping. (If you don't get it, it's a Melee 1P video.)

 

[xX1337Sn1PeZaSsAsS1nXx]

C stick is for pros like me, it gives me perfect control over my aerials.

 

[Master Knight DH]

You don't need the C-Stick for perfect control over aerials. I didn't. Not in my 15 Minute Melee videos.

 

[| Big D |]

I think what he means is that by being able to use aerials with the c stick, you have the option of using attacks without changing you're movement in the air.

So I guess that means you didn't have perfect control.

 

[Kewkky]

Master Knight DH, try jumping backwards and fairing when at the top of your jump, while maintaining your aerial speed WITHOUT using the c-stick. If your speed decreases even a little, try again. Let me know when you achieve this.

 

[kisamefishfries]

I use up on the analog stick to jump and I use smash attacks with a well timed flick and A. In other words I don't care about the C-stick. Also the wiimote+nunchuck is my preferred control scheme.

 

[Master Knight DH]

Master Knight DH, try jumping backwards and fairing when at the top of your jump, while maintaining your aerial speed WITHOUT using the c-stick. If your speed decreases even a little, try again. Let me know when you achieve this.

Because that's totally not natural to do on Melee's 1P modes. When aerials are a flat necessity with some characters for 15 Minute Melee.

 

[Kewkky]

Because that's totally not natural to do on Melee's 1P modes. When aerials are a flat necessity with some characters for 15 Minute Melee.

It doesn't matter if you can or can't do it in the 1P modes. Just because it doesn't matter for you because YOU play 1P modes only, doesn't mean it matters for the vast majority of other players. Barely anyone plays Melee just for its 1P modes, they play multiplayer instead, since that IS what the main attraction of the game is about, just in case you didn't know. Can you do it when playing against other people then?

Unless that post of yours was an indirect way of saying you can't do it without the c-stick.

 

[Big-Cat]

I don't have working access to Melee, but couldn't you just jump back, immediately do your FAir input for no more than 3 frames (not that hard for me in Virtua Fighter), and then hold back again all while your character rises to their peaks?

I honestly don't know if that works or not.

 

[Kewkky]

I don't have working access to Melee, but couldn't you just jump back, immediately do your FAir input for no more than 3 frames (not that hard for me in Virtua Fighter), and then hold back again all while your character rises to their peaks?

I honestly don't know if that works or not.

Sadly, it doesn't work. You stop your backwards input which stops your backwards acceleration and slows your movement. And at the same time you press forward, which begins your forward acceleration thus slowing your backwards movement even more. Even if it's as low as 3 frames, movement is instantaneous in the air, so the speed is reduced regardless, which means you wouldn't be performing at optimum efficiency.

Another example are the ATs that can be humanly performed only thanks to the c-stick. In Brawl, they have dash-attack cancelled up-smashes (DACUS), in which they basically use the c-stick to cancel their dash attacks into an up-smash, while still getting a movement boost from their dash-attacks. Some characters have a large window in which they can do this and keep the slide (Falco and Snake, for example), while others' windows are insanely small that only people who have great finger dexterity, who have been practicing religiously and for a long time, can perform (Sheik, Jigglypuff, Diddy, among others), and not even consistently.

One last example before I go would be Brawl's B-reversal techniques, in which a character will run, jump, do a sideB towards their back, then quickly tilt their control stick to the opposite direction to "reverse" their aerial movement while still using their sideB, demonstrated in this video and this one as well. By changing the C-stick's shortcut to "specials" instead of "smashes", this technique can be humanly achieved consistently. Otherwise, this is all that you'd be able to consistently do without the possibility of accidentally sideB'ing to your death, or opening yourself up for an opponent's punish.

 

[Big-Cat]

I wonder how you could go about that such that it is possible.

One thing I've thought of is that the game hold the input for you via a buffer that gives you enough time to do an FAir like in the above scenario. Another would be that you have to commit to your character's momentum up to a certain point (as in real life, momentum would be gradually reduced via friction and air resistance).

 

[Kewkky]

I wonder how you could go about that such that it is possible.

One thing I've thought of is that the game hold the input for you via a buffer that gives you enough time to do an FAir like in the above scenario. Another would be that you have to commit to your character's momentum up to a certain point (as in real life, momentum would be gradually reduced via friction and air resistance).

That would be both good and bad and it would change the metagame around a little, if it were true. The game doesn't "lock" your momentum in the air when you jump, you have full control over it as long as you're not being knocked back by a strong attack (in which you'd then be in hitstun, where your influence would indeed be limited and the game would "lock" you in the direction you were sent flying for a while).

 

[Kink-Link5]

For what it's worth, Reverse Neutral B into B-reversal isn't very difficult without C-stick since most special moves lock air mobility where it is. It just takes a quick flick, muscle memory, and another flick to zip back rapidly. The aerials, buffered rolls and dodges, and DACUS are much more necessary functions for a second analog stick.