The Dash Attack: More than useless?

[Daea]

I thought that this might merit more than simply a post in the "Ask a quick question, get a quick answer" thread.

I was feeling a little nostalgic about melee today, so I found myself watching some old vids of Ken playing at various mlg tournaments (nyc, dallas, etc.). What interested me was that while I saw many similarities between Ken's melee marth playstyle and the brawl marth playstyle that has been developed, Ken opted to use marth's dash attack a lot more than I've seen any skilled marth do in brawl.

Personally, I might not use the dash attack even once a match, and yet if you look at a vid like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FRpjc3wECM (MLG Dallas PC Chris v. Ken 2), you'll see Ken use the dash attack multiple times and a lot more frequently than you would think as an approach/chase.

Granted, in melee against a falco you'd want to stay on the ground always if possible, but other than that, I don't necessarily think the mechanics of the dash attack itself and the circumstances of the game have changed that drastically in brawl. That being said, is the dash attack as useless of a move as its made out to be? Yes, it does have a lot of cooldown lag, but has anyone discovered any circumstances in which dash attack would be a legitimately good idea, or anything that a dash attack sets up/leads to?

 

[Zankoku]

Dash attack in Melee set up for combos. Dash attack in Brawl is a really poor situational KO move.

 

[VietGeek]

Dash Attack sent you up typically in Melee, which is a position where Falco or any character for that matter would not want to be in against Marth. It gives him a very good positional advantage for following up.

Also know that shieldstun in that game was actually enough to keep you rather safe if you space the DA correctly. In Brawl, the little shieldstun makes it risky to use, and it has no follow-ups.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Yeah, what the above posters said It's really not that good to use anymore... and also you could just fox trot a fsmash or boost smash, or even just run up, cancel the run with shield and do anything like utilt etc.

 

[the_real_toad]

that link distracted me from this topic for like an hour >_> I got completely sidetracjed and just started watching Ken vids

 

[Darxmarth23]

In most cases dash attack is useless.

In Melee, you could use it to send some one twirling in a diagonally behind you, and then follow it with a tippered f-smash. It was a basic move of marths arsenal that was used as a very offensive approach.

Now its send your opponent forward and has a lot of ending lag.

If you are facing some total n00b then you can use it as a surprise attack once or twice(at MAX) per game. Just to mess with them.

I would just stick to a hyphen smash.

Bottom Line:
Dash attack= weak and crappy.

 

[3xSwords]

I thought that this might merit more than simply a post in the "Ask a quick question, get a quick answer" thread.

*facepalm* You have to be joking me. Look here's a rule of thumb for future reference, unless you know it will warrant attention and will definitely change Marth's metagame such as a discovery of an AT or a property of a move that may not be used but is made useful after your post, after you tested it, then make a thread. Otherwise if its just a guess/theory crafting post it in the Q&A thread, and if it becomes something worth attention than we will give you the honor of making a thread for it.

That being said your post was not good because you did not really make any statement yourself and it basically ended with a question to the community, which should be put in Q&A. Also the fact that you just had a brilliant idea for Brawl after watching Melee is not a good transition.

Ok enough of my ranting.

Some info on DA.
three types of hits:
Tipper: Most knockback, diagonal but mostly horizontal trajectory
Regular: Weak knockback, A little more vertical than tipper trajectory
Hilt: Pathetic knockback, at low %'s your opponent doesn't even get hit into the air, he just gets shifted backwards a couple steps.

Tipper DA is basically your almost never valid kill move.

Hilt shot, is ok at medium-high%'s because the knockback is so weak that the opponent once going airborne will land only a little bit ahead of you. This sets up a tech chase situation, which results in more %.

Nevertheless you're screwed if the opponent shields it so you're taking a risk every time you do it for minimal rewards. So you can find another use for DA but me? I'd rather stick with my more reliable options.

 

[IDK]

you know that trick where you tap diagonally down very quickly to dash on the edge in order to do a dash attack right there. i did that against my friend the other day and actually killed him with a tipper at around 100%. it's got decent range. that's the only time i would ever consider using it though.

 

[Daea]

*facepalm* You have to be joking me. Look here's a rule of thumb for future reference, unless you know it will warrant attention and will definitely change Marth's metagame such as a discovery of an AT or a property of a move that may not be used but is made useful after your post, after you tested it, then make a thread. Otherwise if its just a guess/theory crafting post it in the Q&A thread, and if it becomes something worth attention than we will give you the honor of making a thread for it.

That being said your post was not good because you did not really make any statement yourself and it basically ended with a question to the community, which should be put in Q&A. Also the fact that you just had a brilliant idea for Brawl after watching Melee is not a good transition.

Ok enough of my ranting.

Look, kid. If you want to go around parading like you own the place and you're a mod, you honestly need something better to do with your time. If people legitimately only made threads about things that completely "change" marth's metagame, then this forum would be completely empty. Let's be realistic. At this point in brawl's development, the discovery of anything game-changing will be far and in-between. Also, you should understand that many people don't want to read through the q&a thread - they don't want to have to piece together which post links to which reply, especially when there are probably questions that they already know the answers to. This is also why most questions in that thread are answered by one post - the questions themselves might get lost in the pace of the thread. That being said, because I wanted more opinions than just the usual posters who post on the q&a thread, I chose to make a new one. Furthermore, given the rarity of dash attack use in the first place, I thought it even more likely that someone who does not usually post may have some insight that the majority of posters do not.

Please, stop being a pretentious prick and writing things like "we will give you the honor of making a thread." I don't need your permission to make a thread that I deem may result in some discussion, and if you feel that it's an "honor" to make a thread on an online forum, then you have your priorities a bit mixed up. Take a second and take a look - none of the previous 5 posters felt the need to play mod like you did - does that say anything to you?

I also don't need you to be judging the quality of my posts, thanks very much. My post was "not very good" because I posed a question to the community? Is this not a forum where people are allowed to discuss questions and ask questions to others? As I stated before, since I wanted the opinion of more people who may not necessarily read the q&a thread, I made another thread. And since I have seen almost no attention dedicated to/mentioning the dash attack for as long as I've read these boards, I think my brief "transition" as you put it, was just fine.

I understand the frustration that you may feel when people post questions that have already been answered, or basic questions that are common knowledge. I did not think that this was either, and although you may disagree, that's hardly enough to merit your weak excuse at exercising authority that you don't even have.

@ everyone else, thanks for the insight - I'll keep fooling around with it myself to see if I can come up with anything new.

 

[3xSwords]

Look, kid. If you want to go around parading like you own the place and you're a mod, you honestly need something better to do with your time. If people legitimately only made threads about things that completely "change" marth's metagame, then this forum would be completely empty. Let's be realistic. At this point in brawl's development, the discovery of anything game-changing will be far and in-between. Also, you should understand that many people don't want to read through the q&a thread - they don't want to have to piece together which post links to which reply, especially when there are probably questions that they already know the answers to. This is also why most questions in that thread are answered by one post - the questions themselves might get lost in the pace of the thread. That being said, because I wanted more opinions than just the usual posters who post on the q&a thread, I chose to make a new one. Furthermore, given the rarity of dash attack use in the first place, I thought it even more likely that someone who does not usually post may have some insight that the majority of posters do not.

Please, stop being a pretentious prick and writing things like "we will give you the honor of making a thread." I don't need your permission to make a thread that I deem may result in some discussion, and if you feel that it's an "honor" to make a thread on an online forum, then you have your priorities a bit mixed up. Take a second and take a look - none of the previous 5 posters felt the need to play mod like you did - does that say anything to you?

I also don't need you to be judging the quality of my posts, thanks very much. My post was "not very good" because I posed a question to the community? Is this not a forum where people are allowed to discuss questions and ask questions to others? As I stated before, since I wanted the opinion of more people who may not necessarily read the q&a thread, I made another thread. And since I have seen almost no attention dedicated to/mentioning the dash attack for as long as I've read these boards, I think my brief "transition" as you put it, was just fine.

I understand the frustration that you may feel when people post questions that have already been answered, or basic questions that are common knowledge. I did not think that this was either, and although you may disagree, that's hardly enough to merit your weak excuse at exercising authority that you don't even have.

@ everyone else, thanks for the insight - I'll keep fooling around with it myself to see if I can come up with anything new.

Sorry I'm just being stupid. I apologize for my actions, I guess I did push my frustration too far this time. I'll again apologize for my immaturity, however I hope you understand why I was frustrated.

 

[Mazaloth]

Look, kid. If you want to go around parading like you own the place and you're a mod, you honestly need something better to do with your time. If people legitimately only made threads about things that completely "change" marth's metagame, then this forum would be completely empty. Let's be realistic. At this point in brawl's development, the discovery of anything game-changing will be far and in-between. Also, you should understand that many people don't want to read through the q&a thread - they don't want to have to piece together which post links to which reply, especially when there are probably questions that they already know the answers to. This is also why most questions in that thread are answered by one post - the questions themselves might get lost in the pace of the thread. That being said, because I wanted more opinions than just the usual posters who post on the q&a thread, I chose to make a new one. Furthermore, given the rarity of dash attack use in the first place, I thought it even more likely that someone who does not usually post may have some insight that the majority of posters do not.

Please, stop being a pretentious prick and writing things like "we will give you the honor of making a thread." I don't need your permission to make a thread that I deem may result in some discussion, and if you feel that it's an "honor" to make a thread on an online forum, then you have your priorities a bit mixed up. Take a second and take a look - none of the previous 5 posters felt the need to play mod like you did - does that say anything to you?

I also don't need you to be judging the quality of my posts, thanks very much. My post was "not very good" because I posed a question to the community? Is this not a forum where people are allowed to discuss questions and ask questions to others? As I stated before, since I wanted the opinion of more people who may not necessarily read the q&a thread, I made another thread. And since I have seen almost no attention dedicated to/mentioning the dash attack for as long as I've read these boards, I think my brief "transition" as you put it, was just fine.

I understand the frustration that you may feel when people post questions that have already been answered, or basic questions that are common knowledge. I did not think that this was either, and although you may disagree, that's hardly enough to merit your weak excuse at exercising authority that you don't even have.

@ everyone else, thanks for the insight - I'll keep fooling around with it myself to see if I can come up with anything new.

God, I basically said something like this to Fear.

But anyway. DA is horrible because of the defensivness of Brawl, 7/10 times you will either get PS'ed, Spotdodged, or grabbed before attack really hits.
Just Hyphen smash, it is so much better. less starting and ending lag.

 

[OmegaXF]

DA is a weak killing move in Brawl. At low % it sends them away rather then setting someone up for combos......
SAKURAI!!!!!!

 

[Darxmarth23]

Look, kid. If you want to go around parading like you own the place and you're a mod, you honestly need something better to do with your time. If people legitimately only made threads about things that completely "change" marth's metagame, then this forum would be completely empty. Let's be realistic. At this point in brawl's development, the discovery of anything game-changing will be far and in-between. Also, you should understand that many people don't want to read through the q&a thread - they don't want to have to piece together which post links to which reply, especially when there are probably questions that they already know the answers to. This is also why most questions in that thread are answered by one post - the questions themselves might get lost in the pace of the thread. That being said, because I wanted more opinions than just the usual posters who post on the q&a thread, I chose to make a new one. Furthermore, given the rarity of dash attack use in the first place, I thought it even more likely that someone who does not usually post may have some insight that the majority of posters do not.

Please, stop being a pretentious prick and writing things like "we will give you the honor of making a thread." I don't need your permission to make a thread that I deem may result in some discussion, and if you feel that it's an "honor" to make a thread on an online forum, then you have your priorities a bit mixed up. Take a second and take a look - none of the previous 5 posters felt the need to play mod like you did - does that say anything to you?

I also don't need you to be judging the quality of my posts, thanks very much. My post was "not very good" because I posed a question to the community? Is this not a forum where people are allowed to discuss questions and ask questions to others? As I stated before, since I wanted the opinion of more people who may not necessarily read the q&a thread, I made another thread. And since I have seen almost no attention dedicated to/mentioning the dash attack for as long as I've read these boards, I think my brief "transition" as you put it, was just fine.

I understand the frustration that you may feel when people post questions that have already been answered, or basic questions that are common knowledge. I did not think that this was either, and although you may disagree, that's hardly enough to merit your weak excuse at exercising authority that you don't even have.

@ everyone else, thanks for the insight - I'll keep fooling around with it myself to see if I can come up with anything new.

WoW. seems like you took this personally.

Now that the question has been answered, I think we should let this thread die.

DA= Sucks.

 

[∫unk]

DA is pretty good for a finger slip move.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

Look, kid. If you want to go around parading like you own the place and you're a mod, you honestly need something better to do with your time. If people legitimately only made threads about things that completely "change" marth's metagame, then this forum would be completely empty. Let's be realistic. At this point in brawl's development, the discovery of anything game-changing will be far and in-between. Also, you should understand that many people don't want to read through the q&a thread - they don't want to have to piece together which post links to which reply, especially when there are probably questions that they already know the answers to. This is also why most questions in that thread are answered by one post - the questions themselves might get lost in the pace of the thread. That being said, because I wanted more opinions than just the usual posters who post on the q&a thread, I chose to make a new one. Furthermore, given the rarity of dash attack use in the first place, I thought it even more likely that someone who does not usually post may have some insight that the majority of posters do not.

Please, stop being a pretentious prick and writing things like "we will give you the honor of making a thread." I don't need your permission to make a thread that I deem may result in some discussion, and if you feel that it's an "honor" to make a thread on an online forum, then you have your priorities a bit mixed up. Take a second and take a look - none of the previous 5 posters felt the need to play mod like you did - does that say anything to you?

I also don't need you to be judging the quality of my posts, thanks very much. My post was "not very good" because I posed a question to the community? Is this not a forum where people are allowed to discuss questions and ask questions to others? As I stated before, since I wanted the opinion of more people who may not necessarily read the q&a thread, I made another thread. And since I have seen almost no attention dedicated to/mentioning the dash attack for as long as I've read these boards, I think my brief "transition" as you put it, was just fine.

I understand the frustration that you may feel when people post questions that have already been answered, or basic questions that are common knowledge. I did not think that this was either, and although you may disagree, that's hardly enough to merit your weak excuse at exercising authority that you don't even have.

@ everyone else, thanks for the insight - I'll keep fooling around with it myself to see if I can come up with anything new.

destruction post

 

[Remzi]

^^Thats what I was thinking o_0

Anyways, dash attack is incredibly situational, and when you can use it, there's always a better option. Frankly, it blows.

Plus, shield properties in brawl > shield properties in melee

And dash attack in melee was much better for setups.

 

[Qckpy01]

The only way I could imagine using DA as an attack is by mixing it up with f-smash via stutter stepping for unpredictability. But even then still very risky. Da** improved shielding!!

 

[Coda]

DA is pretty good for a finger slip move.

Junk's right. It's not something you put in your mind. But when a chain arises... and your thumb slips and you didn't SH or you could follow up with a fair or a stutter stepped Fsmash... DA doesn't mess you up too much... if at all... its a few more percent... which helps...

but everyone is right. It isn't an efficient KO move. Nor is it a combo starter... excuse me... string/chain starter.

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

Pretty much what everyone else already said. Marth's DA is a terribe move that should only be used by accident.

 

[xXZeroXx]

I think it's good enough as a kill move at certain %, and, useful while edguarding, since is faster than fair, you may ACCIDENTALLY hit.

 

[3xSwords]

How is it faster than fair? >_<

 

[xXZeroXx]

Yes, is faster than jump and then fair, mostly if the enemy is almost hanging the edge than over it

 

[Shaya]

15 frames > 6? frames + 4.

 

[TLMarth]

lol I love it when people make up.
I do find that I never read Q&As

 

[Darxmarth23]

Yes, is faster than jump and then fair, mostly if the enemy is almost hanging the edge than over it

There are many other options besides dash attack in this case.

many other better options.

Dash attack Is USELESS.

 

[Jenkins]

just dont do it lol

 

[ZHMT]

Tip dash attack actually KO's Jigglypuff at 170% on FD. But thats only if they dont DI at all. Its truly a great move with great range and priority.

I would spam dash attack tbh. Oh and bthrow to dash attack is a true combo at almost any %.

If you actually take this seriously...sigh...dont highlight this lol