the CONTROLLER thread! Button Mapping, Controller Type, etc

[ludvigpasse]

I want to see someone show up with a drum set. But like Kyokoro said, you could not perform retreating aerials without a cstick. Don't you also need a cstick to DACUS? Snake mains, where u at

No you dont, you can dacus with 2 buttoms+ a joystick. Just set 1 buttom to downsmash, 1 buttom to uppsmash, run, downsmash, uppsmash. There you go, you just performed a dacus.

 

[-Vocal-]

No you dont, you can dacus with 2 buttoms+ a joystick. Just set 1 buttom to downsmash, 1 buttom to uppsmash, run, downsmash, uppsmash. There you go, you just performed a dacus.

Alright, so I guess you could keep the dacus. Still, Brawl with a fight stick seems like way too much of an effort. More power to you if you want to try it though; you probably couldn't use it in an actual tourney, but I'd be mad impressed if you ever beat a good player in friendlies.

 

[AvariceX]

Forget retreating aerials and DACUS or whatever. Without 2 sticks you can't DI properly. I mean you're welcome to try if you don't mind dying at 2/3's the damage you should die at or potentially taking 42% from Snake's nair.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I still think the DDR mat is a viable option, followed by Donkey Konga's bongo controllers and the Wii Vitality Sensor.

On a serious note, yeah, I just can't see how it would work effectively without giving up major things to use it. Not sure if it is even worth a shot, but go for it. It'll definitely be cool if you win with one.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Big-Cat]

Only aerial attack problem I found is with the retreating ones.
With just one stick you can't input two directions at once. It just screws some styles of playing Brawl.

But then again, seems ridiculously fun to play with.

If you had something in the coding that you gave a small enough time window to let you do retreating aerials, you'd be fine with aerials. Of course, this would have to be for post-Brawl, but let's not go there.

I for one would like to see this become a viable option. The great thing about arcade sticks is that your fingers are mapped to one button each. Still, I think we would have to have the stick itself be an up scaled analog stick.

Other than that, I'm quite curious as to why you need two sticks to DI properly. I'm not really understanding some of the DI stuff.

 

[-Vocal-]

If you had something in the coding that you gave a small enough time window to let you do retreating aerials, you'd be fine with aerials. Of course, this would have to be for post-Brawl, but let's not go there.

I for one would like to see this become a viable option. The great thing about arcade sticks is that your fingers are mapped to one button each. Still, I think we would have to have the stick itself be an up scaled analog stick.

Other than that, I'm quite curious as to why you need two sticks to DI properly. I'm not really understanding some of the DI stuff.

You've heard of smash DI, right? It's how you escape moves like Pikachu's down smash, or Snake's nair, for example. While holding a direction with the analog stick, you smash in the direction you want to move with the cstick. Get's you out much quicker and reliably, and in many cases it's the only way to escape the full brunt of a move.

 

[Big-Cat]

You've heard of smash DI, right? It's how you escape moves like Pikachu's down smash, or Snake's nair, for example. While holding a direction with the analog stick, you smash in the direction you want to move with the cstick. Get's you out much quicker and reliably, and in many cases it's the only way to escape the full brunt of a move.

And here I thought the C-Stick was for those with crappy execution. I've always found the C-Stick questionable, and then there's this.

Don't get me wrong, I can see the uses in this, but this just seems like something you weren't intended to do (like assigning Guile's Sonic Boom to a button).

 

[-Vocal-]

And here I thought the C-Stick was for those with crappy execution. I've always found the C-Stick questionable, and then there's this.

Don't get me wrong, I can see the uses in this, but this just seems like something you weren't intended to do (like assigning Guile's Sonic Boom to a button).

Like wavedashing. I can live with it

 

[.AC.]

you can still escape multi hit moves without the cstick. as for retreating aerials , you can still do them if you buffer them.

 

[sunshade]

And here I thought the C-Stick was for those with crappy execution. I've always found the C-Stick questionable, and then there's this.

Don't get me wrong, I can see the uses in this, but this just seems like something you weren't intended to do (like assigning Guile's Sonic Boom to a button).

brawl as a whole was not intended to be played competitively, that however does not stop us from going to tournaments. Smash DI just happens to be a needed feature of competitive play. The same goes for retreating aerials.

In terms of the advantage of a fight stick over other controllers there are really none. You may have a finger over every button but you lose the ability to preform many advance techniques unless you use map out a signficant number of other buttons to the controller such as Up-smash and Down-smash.

Having a finger designated to each button however is not unique to a fight bad. You can get the same results from the Wiimote+nunchuck control scheme. With the wiichuck you can set the pad on the right side to smashes and uses it for SDI, aerials, and dacus. Every other command will be covered by a finger as well.

People just use the GameCube Controller since most AT are taught to be done using the GCC and it was the only controller back in melee and it transfered over as the status quo. Not that the GCC is not a great controller its the second best for smash and the controller of choice for myself and many but the Wii-mote is better from a efficiency perspective.

The fightstick however will be a bad bet unless your only other option is a Wiimote without nunchuck and even then its a lousy option.

 

[Blacknight99923]

you need C stick and control stick to play optimally, unless your fightstick does that your hindering yourself in competitive play, end of discussion

 

[Browny]

DDR Brawl tournament with DDR mat only! LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv8WZPgPkFA

Close enough this was a real tourney with like 10 entrants rofl

 

[Big-Cat]

brawl as a whole was not intended to be played competitively, that however does not stop us from going to tournaments. Smash DI just happens to be a needed feature of competitive play. The same goes for retreating aerials.

And that's fine and dandy with me as I've said in another thread.

In terms of the advantage of a fight stick over other controllers there are really none. You may have a finger over every button but you lose the ability to preform many advance techniques unless you use map out a signficant number of other buttons to the controller such as Up-smash and Down-smash.

Maybe not for a game like this where two sticks are needed for competitive play (I'm starting to hate the C-Stick now), but this along with pads for those who can't afford sticks, are ideal for other fighting games.

People just use the GameCube Controller since most AT are taught to be done using the GCC and it was the only controller back in melee and it transfered over as the status quo. Not that the GCC is not a great controller its the second best for smash and the controller of choice for myself and many but the Wii-mote is better from a efficiency perspective.

Wait, second best? This is news to me.

 

[ぱみゅ]

DDR Brawl tournament with DDR mat only! LOL!

Brawl Tournament side-events:
-Only Fightstick
-Only PS controller
-Only Dance Dance Revolution mat
-Only XBox controller
-Only Pump it Up mat

Wouldn't that be awesome?

 

[-Vocal-]

Wait, second best? This is news to me.

Lol I think he was talking just in terms of being able to map many different actions to be performed at the push of a button. The wiichuk combo allows for more one button inputs, so "from a efficiency perspective" it would be better. But taking into account the way the human hand is shaped and functions, the GCC is better, imo.

P.S. @kyokoro: Yes, that would be amazing :D

 

[Big-Cat]

Lol I think he was talking just in terms of being able to map many different actions to be performed at the push of a button. The wiichuk combo allows for more one button inputs, so "from a efficiency perspective" it would be better. But taking into account the way the human hand is shaped and functions, the GCC is better, imo.

P.S. @kyokoro: Yes, that would be amazing :D

That's what I was thinking. Thanks for confirming it. By the way, are you familiar with the easy specials in BlazBlue by chance? This is what the C-Stick feels like to me and then some.

I'd really hate to turn this into a C-Stick debate (but how often is this part of the C-Stick usage gone into?).

And that tournament would be crazy to see. You'd have to be in good shape to do the DDR pad one.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Well, I'm starting play arcades, and I do play Pump it Up, so...
I'd at least try it =P

 

[Big O]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv8WZPgPkFA

Close enough this was a real tourney with like 10 entrants rofl

LOL that was amazing. My bro played timesplitters 2 with a guitar hero controller and actually beat someone on a real controller lol.

I'd love to see something silly like that as a side tourney. Wacky controller tourneys where the wackier your controller is, the better the characters you can pick (like GCN controllers are Ganon only, Wiimotes are F tier, and MK is DK bongo exclusive or something lol).

 

[Pierce7d]

In Brawl, the C-stick is a macro for a direction and the "Attack Function". However, due to the large amount of movement options Brawl provides and the fact that the actions you performed are often based on movement input, having two direction sticks is vital for competitive play. Amongst the actions able to be performed, doing aerials in any direction with full range of motion (and regardless of what you may think, no matter how much you master "buffering" you will always have greater movement to action potential by using both sticks, when compared to using one) was already listed.

Instant Dash Attacking is another big one, especially for DACUS. During the first 5 frames after hitting forward, you can still input an Fsmash. How silly would it be if you had to be frame perfect to input an Fsmash, and had to hit A and move the directional stick on the exact same frame every time. If that were the case, everyone would be doing accidental Dash Attacks. However, what if you want to do a Dash Attack right away? Well, you can't do a Down Smash out of a Dash, so hitting Cstick Down will produce a Dash Attack if you do it even within one frame of starting a Dash.

I also like to frequently do Uairs or other aerials while falling through platforms, and perhaps moving as well. The Cstick helps a lot here.

I could go on and on about how important the Cstick is, but in short, just acknowledge it as an option to attack with, like the A button, just with a wider selection of attacks, not dependant on the joystick, so you can use the joystick to move as you'd like.

As for a fight stick? Wouldn't do it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I've just realised you said you don't use X, Y or the C Stick when you used the standard set up and you jump using Tap Jump

How the heck have you used Peach before and done a Floating Dair?

I mean that I don't use it primarily.
If I need to use Peach for some bizarre reason I will use X/Y to Float.

 

[Damage Points]

Tap Jump on vs Tap Jump off

I've struggled with this issue for awhile now. I'm a Wario player but often use MK. I have to switch controller settings which is annoying if I decide to switch characters between matches. I find with Wario I'll waste a jump with it on but with it off I cant use MK to his full potential.

So what I want to know is:

Who do you main? Do you have tap jump on/off? And why.

 

[-Vocal-]

That's what I was thinking. Thanks for confirming it. By the way, are you familiar with the easy specials in BlazBlue by chance? This is what the C-Stick feels like to me and then some.

I'd really hate to turn this into a C-Stick debate (but how often is this part of the C-Stick usage gone into?).

And that tournament would be crazy to see. You'd have to be in good shape to do the DDR pad one.

I think that comparison is a TAD overblown lol, the cstick isn't taking out half of anybody's health bar (or equivalent) anytime soon And besides, why require complicated button presses to perform a move that fits into your strategy? It should be foremost a battle of wits, and that isn't to say that all technical ability should be thrown out the window, of course; I just mean that this gives people the ability to perform as efficiently as they can. What's wrong with that, other than fighting game notions that good moves must require complicated button inputs?

EDIT: And oh yea, nice explanation Pierce. I'm really starting to recognize your name lol, you keep showing up where I post

 

[Meru.]

Outstanding Questions:

Is the fight stick that came with Tatsunoko vs. Capcom at all compatible with Brawl?

According to this and a little bit of research, yes, but some still warn that it may not be compatible for whatever reason.

And I didnt know you could play Brawl with the DDR Dance Mat XD.

Edit: huh, wasnt this a new thread Pierce made? @_@

 

[Big-Cat]

I think that comparison is a TAD overblown lol, the cstick isn't taking out half of anybody's health bar (or equivalent) anytime soon And besides, why require complicated button presses to perform a move that fits into your strategy? It should be foremost a battle of wits, and that isn't to say that all technical ability should be thrown out the window, of course; I just mean that this gives people the ability to perform as efficiently as they can. What's wrong with that, other than fighting game notions that good moves must require complicated button inputs?

EDIT: And oh yea, nice explanation Pierce. I'm really starting to recognize your name lol, you keep showing up where I post

I just realized that I made my comparison backwards. I meant to say that the C-Stick is like the BB easy controls and then some. My mistake.

Anyway, those so called complicated button presses are anything but. Quater-Circle Forward + Punch/Whatever is only hard if you're not used to it. I'm tired of people saying that these things are hard. These inputs are also in to help balance the game. Zangief and Iron Tager should not be allowed to do their SPD moves with only the press of a button. You could try to balance it out by making it have a slow startup, but that just makes it suck.

Anyway, the bolded reminds me that I feel that fighting games in general (along with other competitive genres such as the FPS) are something akin to sports. Are these games a battle of wits? Yes, but the smartest player isn't always the one to win. This is just like trying to justify the use of Turbo on an arcade stick.

Read this for what I'm talking about:

http://shoryuken.com/f315/i-cant-believe-how-many-people-use-turbos-236093/
This is why I find it analogous to C-Sticking.

 

[AMKalmar]

@Damage Points, that directed at anyone or someone specific? Anyways, tap jump off because I'm used to it now. Before I ordered my nintendo controllers from play-asia, I used these icon controllers with really touchy analog sticks. It was near impossible to [quickly] utilt/uair without jumping. I could barely even walk without dashing.

 

[-Vocal-]

I just realized that I made my comparison backwards. I meant to say that the C-Stick is like the BB easy controls and then some. My mistake.

Anyway, those so called complicated button presses are anything but. Quater-Circle Forward + Punch/Whatever is only hard if you're not used to it. I'm tired of people saying that these things are hard. These inputs are also in to help balance the game. Zangief and Iron Tager should not be allowed to do their SPD moves with only the press of a button. You could try to balance it out by making it have a slow startup, but that just makes it suck.

Anyway, the bolded reminds me that I feel that fighting games in general (along with other competitive genres such as the FPS) are something akin to sports. Are these games a battle of wits? Yes, but the smartest player isn't always the one to win. This is just like trying to justify the use of Turbo on an arcade stick.

Read this for what I'm talking about:

http://shoryuken.com/f315/i-cant-believe-how-many-people-use-turbos-236093/
This is why I find it analogous to C-Sticking.

Oh, see I thought you were referring to how the right analog stick performs the super specials or whatever they're called lol, and does Easy controls switch the button mappings somehow? And for the record, I don't think quarter circle forward->punch is hard or complicated, I meant something a little more in depth than those moves. Still, part of the reason Brawl (and Melee?) can be played at such a high speed is because aerials and smashes are mapped to the cstick. Games would be likely be noticeably slower without them, and I like things the way they are. I really don't see any problem with having smashes on cstick; maybe it's just a difference in preference.

 

[Big-Cat]

Oh, see I thought you were referring to how the right analog stick performs the super specials or whatever they're called lol, and does Easy controls switch the button mappings somehow?

The right analog stick does what you just said; it lets you perform select specials effortlessly.

And for the record, I don't think quarter circle forward->punch is hard or complicated, I meant something a little more in depth than those moves.

Like what?

Still, part of the reason Brawl (and Melee?) can be played at such a high speed is because aerials and smashes are mapped to the cstick. Games would be likely be noticeably slower without them, and I like things the way they are. I really don't see any problem with having smashes on cstick; maybe it's just a difference in preference.

To me, it seems that the C-Stick is for breaking in newer players, at least I think this was intended because it obviously isn't used that way in competitive play.

As I said earlier, if you had something in the game's code that allowed you to do retreating aerials and such without a c-stick, there wouldn't be a need for it. Not only that, but I also feel that the C-Stick overrides the restrictions the developers put into the game (this is not the same as playing a game competitively when it was intended for casual play), just like the easy specials in BB (I believe they're banned in tournaments).

 

[-Vocal-]

The right analog stick does what you just said; it lets you perform select specials effortlessly.


Like what?


To me, it seems that the C-Stick is for breaking in newer players, at least I think this was intended because it obviously isn't used that way in competitive play.

As I said earlier, if you had something in the game's code that allowed you to do retreating aerials and such without a c-stick, there wouldn't be a need for it. Not only that, but I also feel that the C-Stick overrides the restrictions the developers put into the game (this is not the same as playing a game competitively when it was intended for casual play), just like the easy specials in BB (I believe they're banned in tournaments).

I don't think it's overriding anything. Retreating aerials have been a part of the game since Melee. If the developers didn't want them they would have removed them. The same can possibly be said for SDI, I just don't know if it was around in Melee so I can't say.

However, to me, it does not seem that the C-Stick is for breaking in newer players; although it can serve this function, I believe it is also there to allow the player to perform as many actions as he can. Hyphen smashes, for instance, where a player cancels a dash directly into an usmash but retains the momentum, thus moving forward, would not be possible without the C-Stick, as you cannot move the analog stick in two different directions at the same time. As an Olimar player, I would be extremely upset if I lost my dthrow->usmash combo, and without the C-Stick this simply wouldn't be possible. And I'm quite certain the developers did not simply overlook this function; it's too common and obvious to be an accident.

Moving on, do you just dislike the ability to do smashes with a flick of the stick? I see it as an advantage allowing for faster game play and more precise input, but it seems that you think that it's not right to do such powerful moves so simply.

And to finish off, there'd be no reason to program the game in a different way to accommodate retreating aerials when we have a stick that serves the purpose flawlessly. Why do you hate what works?

 

[Big-Cat]

I don't think it's overriding anything. Retreating aerials have been a part of the game since Melee. If the developers didn't want them they would have removed them. The same can possibly be said for SDI, I just don't know if it was around in Melee so I can't say.

In a way, it is overriding. The reason, per my guess, as to how the retreating aerials and such work is because the game recognizes the input of the control stick,your means of movement, as the c-stick, an attack macro, is going in another direction at the same time.

However, to me, it does not seem that the C-Stick is for breaking in newer players; although it can serve this function, I believe it is also there to allow the player to perform as many actions as he can. Hyphen smashes, for instance, where a player cancels a dash directly into an usmash but retains the momentum, thus moving forward, would not be possible without the C-Stick, as you cannot move the analog stick in two different directions at the same time. As an Olimar player, I would be extremely upset if I lost my dthrow->usmash combo, and without the C-Stick this simply wouldn't be possible. And I'm quite certain the developers did not simply overlook this function; it's too common and obvious to be an accident.

I've heard this, but I believe I've done this quite a bit, on the wiimote-nunchaku mind you, and I just tested this out on Lucas and Zero Suit Samus to confirm it. The timing's kinda tough, but I can still do it. I don't think this was DACUS though, but I wasn't paying attention that closely.

Moving on, do you just dislike the ability to do smashes with a flick of the stick? I see it as an advantage allowing for faster game play and more precise input, but it seems that you think that it's not right to do such powerful moves so simply.

Have we really gotten to a point that we demand instant gratification? *Sigh* As I explained earlier, there are reasons why you can't do really strong stuff so easily.

And to finish off, there'd be no reason to program the game in a different way to accommodate retreating aerials when we have a stick that serves the purpose flawlessly. Why do you hate what works?

Because it promotes poor execution. You're putting everything onto the C-Stick that you, yourself, can't do.

Just out of curiosity, are a you Smash player going from Melee to Brawl, or went just straight to Brawl?

 

[-Vocal-]

In a way, it is overriding. The reason, per my guess, as to how the retreating aerials and such work is because the game recognizes the input of the control stick,your means of movement, as the c-stick, an attack macro, is going in another direction at the same time.

You said overriding the game developers intentions. However, they programmed this function into the game. And it was in Melee, so it's not like they just slipped up. They intended it to be there, therefore no intentions are being overridden.

I've heard this, but I believe I've done this quite a bit, on the wiimote-nunchaku mind you, and I just tested this out on Lucas and Zero Suit Samus to confirm it. The timing's kinda tough, but I can still do it. I don't think this was DACUS though, but I wasn't paying attention that closely.

And that's just it - the timing is very tough. And without that tough timing people are able to do much more. This is the way Smash was designed, and perhaps you can criticize the developers for making such an "easy" control scheme, but it is what it is.

Have we really gotten to a point that we demand instant gratification? *Sigh* As I explained earlier, there are reasons why you can't do really strong stuff so easily.

But those apply to other games. This is Smash, and in Smash you can perform Smash moves with the c-stick. It is nowhere near equivalent to one-flick supers in BB - for one, those moves are used only a few times in a round, and smash moves are used constantly. Since smash moves are a constant part of play, you can't say it's wrong for them to be easily performed. Other games, sure, but this is Smash and this is the way that Smash is played. It's been played this way since Melee. You can criticize it in comparison to other fighting games, but Smash is different regardless so it's meaningless to say it should work like them.

Because it promotes poor execution. You're putting everything onto the C-Stick that you, yourself, can't do.

Then you should stop using cars. You're putting everything in them that your feet can't do.

Let me be more in-depth: what is wrong with using a function that the developers put into the game? They meant for the game to played this way. Why would you wish to take away such a useful and nearly vital part of a player's controller? I think a fitting analogy would be taking away two fingers from a player of a more traditional fighting game. He can still perform all of his moves, with difficult timing, but it wouldn't be right to do that because that's not the way the game was meant to be played. Brawl was meant to be played with both an analog stick and a cstick; say what you will about that philosophy, but that is the game as it is.

Just out of curiosity, are a you Smash player going from Melee to Brawl, or went just straight to Brawl?

Athough I had Melee the Christmas it first came out, I only started in competitive smash with Brawl this past school year. I am quite familiar with both games and their workings, however.

 

[Big-Cat]

You said overriding the game developers intentions. However, they programmed this function into the game. And it was in Melee, so it's not like they just slipped up. They intended it to be there, therefore no intentions are being overridden.

What I meant by this was that the stick makes you do stuff that is otherwise humanly impossible based on the current conditions (meaning it can be changed). I don't know whether or not this was one of the c-stick's intended purposes, and it's hard to tell with Brawl.

As for Melee, we all know that the game was never intended to have a large competitive following (hence wavedashing still existing) so that's irrelevant.

And that's just it - the timing is very tough. And without that tough timing people are able to do much more. This is the way Smash was designed, and perhaps you can criticize the developers for making such an "easy" control scheme, but it is what it is.

It's not that tough. At first, I couldn't quite pull it off, but I was pulling it out consistently afterwards once I got readjusted to the game. Seriously, just practice the **** thing. IIRC, I was pulling this stuff off as early as Brawl's release (assuming it wasn't in Melee).

I have nothing wrong with an easy control scheme; in fact, I applaud it and it's what kept me in Smash for a while (and scared me from other fighters). I do have a problem with trying to get around the few difficulties the controls actually have in this manner (as opposed to, say, finding a rhythm to help the learning process).

But those apply to other games. This is Smash, and in Smash you can perform Smash moves with the c-stick. It is nowhere near equivalent to one-flick supers in BB - for one, those moves are used only a few times in a round, and smash moves are used constantly. Since smash moves are a constant part of play, you can't say it's wrong for them to be easily performed. Other games, sure, but this is Smash and this is the way that Smash is played. It's been played this way since Melee. You can criticize it in comparison to other fighting games, but Smash is different regardless so it's meaningless to say it should work like them.

I think you misinterpreted me earlier. Supers are NOT available under the Easy Specials stick. You still have to do the motions and such. Only special attacks are. In Street Fighter terms, this would be stuff such as the Hadouken, Shoryuken, Spinning Bird Kick, and Sonic Boom. With that in mind, it is similar to the c-stick.

You say that using the C-Stick is how Smash is played? It's my understanding that it's optional for it to be used. After checking the control customization options, you can do other things with the C-Stick, including specials. Smash attacks are only the default option.

Then you should stop using cars. You're putting everything in them that your feet can't do.

You can't really compare the two. Yes, I could walk all the way from Maine to Texas, but who would really do that? No one has the stamina to do that. On the other hand, you can do a hyphen Smash without a c-stick if you practice enough.The only thing that would make sense otherwise in using the C-Stick is to maintain momentum in the air.

Athough I had Melee the Christmas it first came out, I only started in competitive smash with Brawl this past school year. I am quite familiar with both games and their workings, however.

Okay, just wondering.

 

[-Vocal-]

What I meant by this was that the stick makes you do stuff that is otherwise humanly impossible based on the current conditions (meaning it can be changed). I don't know whether or not this was one of the c-stick's intended purposes, and it's hard to tell with Brawl.

Yes, it was intended. If it wasn't, the developers would have looked at Melee and said, "Oh look, you can do aerials with the C-Stick. We should change that." They didn't.

As for Melee, we all know that the game was never intended to have a large competitive following (hence wavedashing still existing) so that's irrelevant.

I brought it up to say that the C-Stick served the same purpose there. If the developers didn't want the C-Stick to do that anymore, they would have changed it. It is not an accident whatsoever; this is one of the uses they intended for it.

It's not that tough. At first, I couldn't quite pull it off, but I was pulling it out consistently afterwards once I got readjusted to the game. Seriously, just practice the **** thing. IIRC, I was pulling this stuff off as early as Brawl's release (assuming it wasn't in Melee).

There's also nothing tough with doing a dash with the analog stick and doing an usmash with the C-Stick. There's no reason to do things the more complicated way.

I have nothing wrong with an easy control scheme; in fact, I applaud it and it's what kept me in Smash for a while (and scared me from other fighters). I do have a problem with trying to get around the few difficulties the controls actually have in this manner (as opposed to, say, finding a rhythm to help the learning process).

It's not a difficulty of the controls if the controls have been programmed so that you don't have to do that. It's like doing a pivot grab with shield+A; it's possible to do it that way, but the game has been programmed so that you can just use a grab button. There is no reason to do things a difficult way.

I think you misinterpreted me earlier. Supers are NOT available under the Easy Specials stick. You still have to do the motions and such. Only special attacks are. In Street Fighter terms, this would be stuff such as the Hadouken, Shoryuken, Spinning Bird Kick, and Sonic Boom. With that in mind, it is similar to the c-stick.

We must have different versions of BlazBlue, because Supers are available in mine. And like I already said, those are other fighting games. They were meant to be played where you input a quarter circle then press "strong attack" to produce a move. In Brawl, the C-Stick is part of intended play, so comparison to BlazBlue or any other fighter is irrelevant.

You say that using the C-Stick is how Smash is played? It's my understanding that it's optional for it to be used. After checking the control customization options, you can do other things with the C-Stick, including specials. Smash attacks are only the default option.

Ok. You can change it. It's still the default option. It's still the option most widely used. It LITERALLY is how the game is played the majority of the time with the majority of players.

You can't really compare the two. Yes, I could walk all the way from Maine to Texas, but who would really do that? No one has the stamina to do that. On the other hand, you can do a hyphen Smash without a c-stick if you practice enough.The only thing that would make sense otherwise in using the C-Stick is to maintain momentum in the air.

But you don't have to do it without the C-Stick. I don't see any good reason not to, other than a notion that the produced move is too powerful to be available at the flick of a thumb, and that does not convince me since I don't believe the produced move is too powerful.

 

[Big-Cat]

This is going nowhere. Agree to disagree? I will admit that you do have valid points though. As it stands, there are no reasons why you wouldn't use the C-Stick aside from an extra frame of startup. At least easy mode in other games (other than fighters) have a catch in that you can only do certain things as a result (Easy Mode Mockery). This is starting to remind me of L-Canceling.

 

[Tinypoke42]

Wow, there's way too much arguing about the c-stick. Something people can try is to go rent/borrow Metroid prime 3/trilogy on wii for a week or so then play SSBB with nunchuck make C special make B jump. It feels natural (to me at least) . it feels a little like ssb64.

 

[ぱみゅ]

My config:
Tap jump OFF, L/X for jumps, Y/B for specials. Everyhitng else is default.

-I used to randomly miss my midair jump when I tried to DI (and whenever I tried an upair lol), so I turned it off.
-When I first chosen use Y for specials, was trying to hace an easy way to press quickly Jump and Special (altough I didn't knew about UpB OOS back then lol). Now, I randomly use any of them.
-L for jumps was basically for DDD, in order to use well his Bairs. But I mix L and X with MK for his Dair camping, or to use any UpB OOS.

 

[PractiseCactus]

Does anyone apart from me use the classic controller? I find it's really easy to reach all of the buttons, lots quicker than the gc controller.

 

[-Vocal-]

@Kuma: Agreed

And to the post above, I saw someone at the last tourney I went to who used a classic controller, not a bad player either

 

[PractiseCactus]

On classic, I have y set to special, b is attack, and I have "c stick" as smashes, sometimes tilts. I also have r as grab. Also, x and a are jumps. I based it around the original n64 controller setup.

 

[AMKalmar]

E-stick (b-sticking with a c-stick (Lucas get your butt in here))

Ye. B+C = E. TL;DR last paragraph.

I have two control schemes, one has a b-stick for my Lucas shenanigans, the other has a c-stick for optimal aerial control so my Ganon can win. B-stick vs c-stick has always been a dilemma for me as a Lucas player (bounces vs aerials and SDI). And the other way of bouncing with a c-stick is really hard to do consistently.

While fooling around on Green Greens with Ike just now, with my c-stick configuration, I got blowed up and was sent flying to the right. I decided to press side-b towards the stage so that I could quickly get back to business. What I actually did was press the left analog partially left, press the b button, and at the same time, touch the c-stick to the right. Ike shot off to the right and died. What I did there was not a wave-bounce but I realized you could direct specials with a c-stick. Dilemma solved maybe.

Now, with L, R, or Z set to specials and stick to smashes, I input the following: right > jump > c-left + special. Special overrides smash > left analog overrides right analog > crap pants bounce. You have to press the c-stick a bit earlier than the special button because it only registers after you push it so far (just like a bounced zap-jump). Hoping this isn't already common knowledge so that I don't look silly. If I just invented this for real, you have to call this technique the e-stick.