The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

[Famous]

Some new vids up...Check the Mario Vids thread in a sec


[EDIT] Mario Vs Marth vids wont be up till morning...It's worth the wait though. Until then, enjoy the Mario montage...

 

[HeroMystic]

Ooookay, match-up discussion at this point is going in circles.

At this point, I stopped caring, so lets put the match-up ratio as this.

65:35 (Very arguable for 60:40)

or

60:40 (Very arguable for 65:35)

I believe having both numbers up there will settle down both boards. Agreed?

 

[_Kadaj_]

lol famous that teams match was horrible

I didnt even try in that match because Candy doesnt use marth lol

Btw upload my Bowser vids vs Boss and vs Candy plz

or at least record them and we'll upload them this weekend at my house

 

[A2ZOMG]

But uh. Luigi has more KO power. So naturally he'll do slightly better.

Nah.

It's harder for Luigi since it's a bigger chore for him to get inside Marth's range. He's slower moving, and has less range on KO moves. His better recovery doesn't help him much against Marth, and he doesn't have as many good out of shield options since he slides away a lot. His sliding does very little to help him in this matchup. He can't escape something like Dancing Blade (while Mario can with Up-B out of shield), while everything else puts him outside of the range where he can punish with a kill move.

Luigi in the same way does worse against G&W.

 

[Inferno3044]

I think we should call it 60:40 Marth and move on to a different character. Could we do D3 or Falco next? Btw thank you Marths for helping us out.

 

[Judge Judy]

Well...at least this wasn't as bad as the Zelda boards...

 

[HeroMystic]

D3 has been talked to death.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I don't know why, but I was thinking we do the ROB matchup next.

And yeah, D3 is always talked about, it's pretty much "Don't get grabbed". And all that junk.

 

[Famous]

I just ledge camp...Or use Luigi against D3...

 

[Inferno3044]

Then lets go with ROB. Either him or Falco or a character thats in like B or C tier that isn't used too often but is seen.

 

[:mad:]

I was thinking more along the lines of Game and Watch as our next topic.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

G&W is fine with me, they're usually surprised when you SJP OoS their turtle. I did that at my last tourney, he was like "...WDF?" I laughed.

 

[:mad:]

Lol, SJP is amazing. Mainly for that reason. I love stage spiking the ridiculously bad edgehoggers.
Anyone else second Game and Watch discussion?

 

[Matt07]

Game and Watch...

My worst hated match, I would love to talk about him .

I'm so trashy versus Game and Watches.

 

[:mad:]

You got it, Matt.
I'll get right to it.

 

[hippiedude92]

Im just a outsider ... But i was leaning on DK.. My luigi can barely take on DK and it's like 4/6 matchup lol.. and I still have a hard time using Mario against DK, usually i just barely win or consistently 2 stocked... but yeah I'd preferred DK... but GaW is ok too.. let it ripp...

 

[Inferno3044]

Well I guess the first thing I can easily say that is a pro is that he is lightweight and his turtle is affected by FIHL. Cons, I'll give a few:
Every freaking attack is a disjointed hitbox
Able to kill at low percents
Nearly impossible to gimp
Can't fireball camp because of the bucket

This is Mario's hardest matchup (except for D3 /w infinite) imo. 65:35 maybe 70:30 but that's because I don't know what to do against him.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Fireball camping still works fairly well, what do you do when they fill the bucket up? You go to town fireballing. Just keep on the lookout for crazy bucket of doom.

Honestly, I haven't had THAT much trouble with this matchup, I thought Lucario was harder... and I've played the top G&Ws in my region.

 

[:mad:]

Im just a outsider ... But i was leaning on DK.. My luigi can barely take on DK and it's like 4/6 matchup lol.. and I still have a hard time using Mario against DK, usually i just barely win or consistently 2 stocked... but yeah I'd preferred DK... but GaW is ok too.. let it ripp...

Your opinion matters.
... we'll do DK next, in honor of you.

Well I guess the first thing I can easily say that is a pro is that he is lightweight and his turtle is affected by FIHL. Cons, I'll give a few:
Every freaking attack is a disjointed hitbox
Able to kill at low percents
Nearly impossible to gimp
Can't fireball camp because of the bucket

This is Mario's hardest matchup (except for D3 /w infinite) imo. 65:35 maybe 70:30 but that's because I don't know what to do against him.

Problem is, a good Game and Watch can bucket brake and survive about 40% longer than he normally would.

Fireball camping still works fairly well, what do you do when they fill the bucket up? You go to town fireballing. Just keep on the lookout for crazy bucket of doom.

Honestly, I haven't had THAT much trouble with this matchup, I thought Lucario was harder... and I've played the top G&Ws in my region.

Better yet, cape the crazy bucket of doom.

Lucario... is harder? lol.

 

[hippiedude92]

Straked your the best man

Fireball camping does work to a extent of the risk. If you do fireball camp, they'll bucket, but this will leave them in a laggy state which most good Gaws dont leave themselves open for. But if they do bucket all 3 of them, they wont be able to bucket brake and leave longer. But they'll be able to play with your mind and have a free ko on you depending on %. So yeah, you'll want to go over the rewards/risks ratio in fireball camping etc...

You'll want to aim for sides when he does a dair since it hits below you. FIHL is your best friend in this matchup..

 

[:mad:]

I did hear some good stuff about your Mario, so I think you at least deserve it for using him once in awhile.
I'm glad you suggested DK, to be honest. It's a really fun matchup.

 

[Matador]

I want to do DK.

In reference to G&W and fireballing, I usually do it. With a full bucket, he can't bucket brake OR bucket fireballs and I'd rather be able to approach the ******* and be able to kill him than for him to be living waaaaaaaaaaay longer than he should AND taking away my best approach method by scaring me away with the wretched bucket. G&W already keeps us out VERY well, no need to add to it.

I have my priorities.

Edit: Christ Xeroxen, what Lucarios do you fight? The matchup isn't THAT bad.

 

[HeroMystic]

Never played a G&W that bucket-braked on me yet, but as everyone said, FIHL is your best friend on this match-up. I'd say just because of bucket-brake, it deserves a 35:65. Don't hold me on that as, again, I've never fought a bucket-braking G&W.

btw, G&W is the third hardest match-up.

 

[Matador]

Never played a G&W that bucket-braked on me yet, but as everyone said, FIHL is your best friend on this match-up. I'd say just because of bucket-brake, it deserves a 35:65. Don't hold me on that as, again, I've never fought a bucket-braking G&W.

btw, G&W is the third hardest match-up.

It's not that bad. You just have to wait a little longer to kill him. I don't think it's 40% like Straked said though, maybe 20%. Just kill him when you'd kill Kirby instead of when you'd normally kill G&W.

 

[:mad:]

40%'s a pretty noticeable difference, but it's just a guess, I play way too many good Game and Watches offline, but they all play the same. Overpowered smashes, Dair, Dtilt, Nair, Bair. The usual. I Utilt more versus Game and Watch than anyone else, mainly because it tempts them to shift their dair to the side. I've seen plenty of Dthrow shennanigans out of these Game and Watches, especially Dthrow + run rly fast to the side and Upsmash, Dthrow > Jab + Regrab, Dthrow > Dsmash. Most of which are avoidable if you hold 'A' so you'll jab. Don't roll back, though, just don't.

65:35 sounds about right, I wouldn't argue 60:40 this time because of sheer kill power. Upsmash will kill fairly early here, regardless of the bucket brake. Take them to a low ceiling stage, if you're feeling brave, because they have a powerful Usmash, too. As long as you always take the first stock and keep some steady momentum, you should win on small stages. Just stop him from racking up the damage first, fresh smashes kill at 110% or even less.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Game and Watch:
Ugh, this matchup is a *****. You can give him a run for his money if you know what you're doing, but this matchup is always going to be a pain in the *** if he doesn't suck at spacing.
Up-B out of shield is your friend. Abuse it whenever he doesn't space perfectly.
Grab combos are also your friend at low percents.
Fireball camping is good as long as he doesn't catch onto it.
SAVE THAT UP-SMASH.
F-smash mindgames are especially difficult on G&W due to his lingering hitboxes. They're possible, but more risky in this matchup.
FLUDD can mess up his spacing.
Jab and F-tilt a lot in close range. They outspeed his attacks pretty well.
Also, don't bother trying to punish his Up-smash. It's completely safe. Seriously. <_<

All in all 65/35 his favor.

Don't ask me to play you in this matchup. No time right now.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I don't really play Lucarios who are that good. I just suck so hard against that matchup I cry.

I'm okay with this going 65:35, although I tend to do rather well against G&W. :D. Pretty much everything has been said, and I don't feel like goi into detail.

 

[Matt07]

Hmm Game and Watch um...in regards to his usmash I didn't know knowing beats it maybe that's why I always died when I tried to n-air his usmash...

Usually though it's such a huge hitbox that I think I won't get hit. But guess again...usually from what others have told me, you'll want to be using jabs, and ftilt a lot in this match-up. If he get's careless with Turtle, just up. Also if you get him in a 'combo' or within his range, they'll most likely up B and restart the 'situation' again.

 

[:mad:]

There's a lot more to say than just that. And yeah, HIS Upsmash has some unique properties. The common mistake we try to make is attempting to punish the key, and 9 out of 10 times, it won't happen. Just avoid his Dair at all costs. FIHL + Upsmash can kill if they get too aggresive with their turtle.

 

[Judge Judy]

G&W's Usmash has a very slow startup and you can always just cape it if you know what you're doing. Also, like you guys said, FLUDD works too.

 

[:mad:]

The fact that it has great kill power and clanks/beats nearly everything makes up for that.
I really hate that move...

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W's Usmash has a very slow startup and you can always just cape it if you know what you're doing. Also, like you guys said, FLUDD works too.

The thing about G&W's Up-smash is it's SPAMMABLE.

It may look slow, but it has deceptively FAST properties. It has basically no ending lag. And the charge release is frame 2. His head I believe is invincible during the hitbox duration. Even if he doesn't hit you, it's so low lag he can either shield or Jab or D-tilt before you can do anything else. Aside from the fact his Up-smash pushes you away 100 miles when it hits your shield, the frame advantage is -8 (advantage after dropping shield is -1. Your Jab is frame 2).

As a G&W user, I actually get the majority of my kills with Up-smashes, and the rest of them are usually F-airs. G&W's Up-smash is especially scary if he's good at predicting dodges, as his Up-smash ***** dodges if he knows charge releases.

3:28

 

[Judge Judy]

I'm aware of the IASA frames but its initial startup is still very punishable.

 

[Matt07]

That is true it is easy to punish the start-up. I find Game and Watch's use usmash though after a dthrow (hence, I'm trying to learn my lesson to lie still after dthrow, so I don't roll into a usmash), or when your falling down since it's hard to punish the slow startup when your in the air.

 

[Judge Judy]

That is true it is easy to punish the start-up. I find Game and Watch's use usmash though after a dthrow (hence, I'm trying to learn my lesson to lie still after dthrow, so I don't roll into a usmash), or when your falling down since it's hard to punish the slow startup when your in the air.

Cape stall, it will make you less predictable when falling.

 

[A2ZOMG]

On paper it looks easy to take advantage of the 25 frame startup of his Up-smash.

However that's easier said than done when in the first place you are probably shielding and dodging a lot just to avoid getting owned by his B-air. The startup on his Up-smash hardly matters when he's usually going to set it up through intelligent spacing and a 2 frame charge release.

Also, most G&Ws from D-throw, will usually Jab or D-tilt. Or techchase regrab/Dash Attack. Techchase U-smash isn't all that common IMO due to it not being practical in the event the opponent DOES tech.

 

[Matador]

A move being slow isn't always a bad thing. Ike wouldn't be nearly as annoying to fight if half of his attacks weren't built-in airdodge/spotdodge punishers. You get so used to reading an opponents movements and intentions that you forget to compensate for how incredibly slow the move is.

G&W's Usmash will catch you if you're not paying attention, because it has deceptive speed and we can't afford to take a hit from it in this matchup.

 

[Judge Judy]

My point is that there are far more dangerous moves in G&W's arsenal; it's like discussing ways around Ike's Usmash without even mentioning his jab.

 

[Matador]

My point is that there are far more dangerous moves in G&W's arsenal; it's like discussing ways around Ike's Usmash without even mentioning his jab.

I highly doubt we'll go an entire G&W matchup discussion without mentioning his staple Bair, ungimpability and his other ton of retardedly good tactics and traits that are stacked against us.

In that regard, mentioning his Usmash is just as important, especially since we're writing it off as "slow" already.

 

[_Kadaj_]

I know I'm not a mario main but if G&W is recovering low and you anticipate his up b correctly you can speed hug the ledge and he will land on stage in his sitting animation.

As soon as he lands on stage you can quickly get off the edge and attack with N-air, D-air, or U-air.

I used to play Mario when the game 1st came out XD