The Competitive Brawl Stage Hacking Hub: Dat Valentine's Day Status

[AMKalmar]

That was just an image. I haven't touched it yet. Photoshop is an amazing tool.

 

[FrozenHobo]

why you... getting my hopes up! either way, that looked fine, and with that we won't need the jacks to dissuade border camping, which means we can freeze the stage, which means more classic DK in the background. 75m+ may actually be a reality O_o

 

[Shadic]

What's wrong with the camera Shadic? If you think it's comes to close to the death boundaries that's because I wanted to keep it closer to the original in that aspect. The camcenter is centered on the solid part of the stage on the x axis. I could center it vertically aswell if you think it's too low. Top and bottom boundaries are left alone. I did say I would do item spawns this evening an include it with the pokemon trainer and spawn point stuff... patience grasshopper?

I like tinkering.

I think the camera limits were far too low. For a Neutral stage, it's standard to have the camera limit 130 higher than the highest point of the level. Yours was like.. 50? I expanded the boundaries all around, and let the camera go a bit lower, while raising the center a bit. Also, I did move the items.

However, the spinning blocks don't spin properly anymore. wtf.
Download. For the curious.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

my idea for GHZ was to make one side of the stage 2 of the breakable platform (removing the stuff past it) and turn the other side into a grabbable part. i say we probably could find a different idea since they both would have the same gimmick of breakable/moving ledges.

Pfft...I thought of this idea first. You just improved on it by using the right side instead of the left.

Also, a random idea popped into my mind while ready stuff on Olimar. Is it possible to change the "terrain type" for certain things (not the appearance of it but the attribute that affects plucking Pikmins)? Like make the fire field on PS1 to be "cloth", thus increasing the chances of a red Pikmin being plucked? It would make sense, since right now, the fire field yields a neutral ratio. But this is just something that's not too important that I thought would be interesting if possible.

 

[FrozenHobo]

i haven't said this yet, but i have grown to like the new YI:M+. i really like what you've done with this AMK. you took my initial idea and really made it come alive. good work. you should add it to your OP. it plays really well.

 

[AMKalmar]

Shadic, not every stage has to have FD style boundaries. Japes has a super high ceiling, Greens is really tight. Different characters have advantage with different boundaries. That's part of what makes them counterpicks. This one's unique enough as it is, but I would like to keep it as close to the original as possible. The ceiling, floor and right wall are the same, the left wall is moved out to be the same as the right wall.

YIM has 3 pairs of pikmin bones. I think the first is still final smash.

 

[Plum]

I think its a good thing that the stage has such tight boundaries. With good DI I'm still feeling pressured to make it much further past the 100-110% range with a character like Sheik and that's a very good thing.

The stage plays very quickly because of the boundaries, the biggest issue with basically every other stage in Brawl is that characters live way too long. Fat characters can regularly live towards the 200% and up range, and my DDD is getting to like 150% here. A big reason as to why B+ still feels slow is because characters live too long, and increasing the boundaries here isn't going to change that issue.

+1 for the tighter boundaries.

 

[AMKalmar]

GENTALMANZ, DI down and tech those pipes.
Pretty sure this can go in the OP. Somebody test pikmin pickings. Pick them from the left blocks, pick them from the right blocks, and pick them from the middle. There is difference?

 

[FrozenHobo]

i'm gonna finish up some stuff on pictochat and then i'm going to take a look at 75m (once amk gives me one of 2 links ) and SMI. second DLC stage pack could be ready before the first one is even released O_o

oh, and i'm looking at mario bros... just an fyi.


edit: IDEA: Onett: (lol): make the outside ground passthrough/remove it (maybe all ground, actually), Remove cars/freeze stage. would be a huge stage (good for doubles) without border camping; aka, good CP (lets fee falco land those lasers now).

 

[Daakun]

I agree about the land on the sides of Onett, but there's no need to remove the cars.
You have plenty of warning; you can jump over it or powershield it easily. You can even crouch cancel and tech off the left building if you don't want to leave yourself open for the bit of stun on a flubbed shield.

 

[Revven]

Frozen, wouldn't it be better (and in the case of "wall infinites") to speed up the stage some so cars appear more often thus forcing players to play on the buildings more often than on the main ground? The cars only do a mere 30% and don't have as much knockback as they did in Melee. If you sped up the stage slightly with your modifications, I think Onett would indeed be a lot better.

 

[ValTroX]

I'm pretty satisfied with YI:M; very, very good job AMK. The only weird thing i found is that when you hit one of the center boxes and you try to go through the hole, you teleport back to where you started(if you are going slow) or you teleport to the next block(if you are going fast). Other than that it's just perfect, again awesome job with this stage.

 

[Alphatron]

All Onett needs is a speedup so that the cars come more often. And to a fix to those lousy rooftop edges on the right side of the stage.

 

[Shadic]

I'm pretty satisfied with YI:M; very, very good job AMK. The only weird thing i found is that when you hit one of the center boxes and you try to go through the hole, you teleport back to where you started(if you are going slow) or you teleport to the next block(if you are going fast). Other than that it's just perfect, again awesome job with this stage.

But you don't with small characters, so it's obviously a size issue.

There's no way we could make the blocks like, 2x their size, and just put down half as many of them, or something?

 

[FrozenHobo]

I agree about the land on the sides of Onett, but there's no need to remove the cars.
You have plenty of warning; you can jump over it or powershield it easily. You can even crouch cancel and tech off the left building if you don't want to leave yourself open for the bit of stun on a flubbed shield.

well, the cars would be removed if the center ground was removed (it would look/function weird if there were floating cars). if people want the center to remain, though, i don't see a problem with keeping the cars.

Frozen, wouldn't it be better (and in the case of "wall infinites") to speed up the stage some so cars appear more often thus forcing players to play on the buildings more often than on the main ground? The cars only do a mere 30% and don't have as much knockback as they did in Melee. If you sped up the stage slightly with your modifications, I think Onett would indeed be a lot better.

it wasn't the damage, but the above reason i was worried about. it seems people like the idea of the outside ground being removed and the inside staying. that with a sped up stage should work fine.

All Onett needs is a speedup so that the cars come more often. And to a fix to those lousy rooftop edges on the right side of the stage.

ah, yes, the right roof. thats an easy fix, but definitely a needed one.


edit @ shadic: i think that may be possible, actually...

 

[Perfect Chaos]

well, the cars would be removed if the center ground was removed (it would look/function weird if there were floating cars)

And floating houses don't look weird?
I'm pretty much against making walkoffs into platform stages by getting rid of the floor (with maybe for the exception of FlatZone2, since that doesn't need you to get rid of anything graphically, only making the non-screen part show up behind the character). It just doesn't feel right to me...

As for the "making YI:M's blocks bigger" idea, I don't think it's very necessary. It's just something that happens to big characters for small gaps that's part of how the game functions. Green Greens' blocks have a similar thing happen as well. It's not really game breaking or anything.

 

[ZacTASTIC]

I don't know if this has been said, but is there any way to change the camera on NPC?

 

[GHNeko]

I'm pretty much against making walkoffs into platform stages by getting rid of the floor (with maybe for the exception of FlatZone2, since that doesn't need you to get rid of anything graphically, only making the non-screen part show up behind the character). It just doesn't feel right to me...

​

I suggest you add this stage to your exception list, good sir.


*goes back to lurking*

 

[ValTroX]

But you don't with small characters, so it's obviously a size issue.

There's no way we could make the blocks like, 2x their size, and just put down half as many of them, or something?

Small characters like? It happened to me with Mario and he's... medium-small?

 

[AMKalmar]

I don't know if this has been said, but is there any way to change the camera on NPC?

That's one of the things that needed changing, yes (I assume you mean make it closer at it's closest). I just haven't gotten around to looking into it.

Valtrox, you'll get strange phenomenon like that. Look at Mario's ledge grab animation. He sticks his feet way out behind himself, making him take up over twice as much space horizontally compared to his falling animation. When he falls into a 1 block gap, he tries to grab the ledge but becomes wider than the gap and is forced to land on top of the block. As I said, you really have to mess around with this stage to see how your character and the blocks affect each other. For example, Ganon can't upB into a 1 block gap. He'll fall back down immediately. From there he could double jump uAir or upB again to land above the blocks. Or he could just aim for a larger opening.

All kinds of character specific shenanigans on that stage. That one specifically could be very good for mario since he doesn't have ledge lag. As soon as he is in range of the ledge (even from beneath), he is standing on top.

 

[Shadic]

AMK - Is is feasible to make the blocks 2x size? Maybe I'll look at it today.

 

[AMKalmar]

I think it should stay 1x. If you hit your head off a block, you'll grab the ledge (at least in vBrawl you will). If you make it 2x you'll be too far away to grab the ledge and that's huge anyways. 1.5x would be more reasonable but it may not eliminate all the ledge glitches for the large characters.

They're HUGE. And they eat Lucas' thunderball because the hurtbox is the same size while the collisions are 2x. No good!

 

[FrozenHobo]

at a smashfest right now and (i'm not sure if you were aware of this, but...) rolling on the blocks does not work. like, you can only roll on the individual blocks. probably should be looked at before final release.

 

[AMKalmar]

That's because they aren't one object. I'm sure there was the same glitch with the original YIM. We can't fix that.

 

[FrozenHobo]

we fixed it on LM+. i'm pretty sure we could roll on the platforms on vYI:M.

 

[Alphatron]

This may sound silly, but I'm starting to think that near every stage in brawl+ should have the AMK Yoshi's Island boundaries. Might just be me but living to near 200% is silly and slows down the match.

 

[RPGsFTW]

This may sound silly, but I'm starting to think that near every stage in brawl+ should have the AMK Yoshi's Island boundaries. Might just be me but living to near 200% is silly and slows down the match.

I agree. No stage needs big enough boundaries to keep everyone living so easily. Each stage may look ok, but in reality they need to be shrunken a bit, or something physics-wise can be changed(?), to make it less of the gay that is vBrawl.

 

[Alphatron]

I'd prefer looking into the boundaries of stages first. Physics changes will just piss more people off.

 

[BadGuy]

I think brawl+ would benifit from another physics change, the game is still too slow imo.

 

[Alphatron]

Simply changing the physics could goa long way I guess. People are still saying that follow ups are way too easy and that the game feels sluggish, etc.

Personally, I'm fine with it. And a physics change at this point would mean re-doing everything for every character. We're supposed to be stabilizing the game at this point.

 

[Plum]

Physics are out of the question. That would essentially be starting over from scratch. While it could do a lot for the game, its just something that isn't realistic at this point when we're trying to establish a stable game with no further character changes.

Stage boundaries were however brought up in the back room, and at this point it looks like we are going to be moving boundaries in to shorten the % it takes to end a stock. Characters live close to, or at vBrawl percents, and that's going to change. While I'm sure all of us would like to see perfect physics, its one of those "too late" type deals. Stage boundaries however are the least intrusive way of speeding up this game, and won't affect how characters are played so you can expect to see changes there.

 

[Alphatron]

Looking forward to it! Just make sure Japes keeps its abnormally high cieling and we're good.

 

[BadGuy]

Lol, new stage boundries? That means my bowser's forward smash is gonna start killing people at 40 more often now.

 

[FrozenHobo]

take this talk to the stage legality thread. its more fitting there. this topic should be for actual modification ideas. editing boundaries is not actually relevant to this type of hacking and should be discussed there. in this way, we can actually look at the boundaries for each stage, not just the ones being hacked here.

 

[hotdogturtle]

The new YI:M looks cool. I haven't had a chance to play it ingame, but it's a lot more visually appealing than I expected it to be.

Has work started on the modified SMI yet?

 

[AMKalmar]

we fixed it on LM+. i'm pretty sure we could roll on the platforms on vYI:M.

My mistake, just tested the original and you are correct. In that case I would guess it's because each block has a ledge and you can't roll off a ledge. Testing...

Okay... I'm not having this problem. I can roll just fine. Whoever had this problem must have not downloaded the latest pac. STGDXYORSTER_B.pac is the only one that I can imagine would have this problem because it is missing one of the two floor planes on the top of each block.

 

[FrozenHobo]

alright. i'll re-download and test again. may be that i was using _B.

 

[Gardevior]

Can someone post the Freeze Stage code for Summit in the OP?

Ninechars.

 

[FrozenHobo]

i'll get my current code up in a sec.

on the topic of stages, 75m is pretty weird. i can remove the unwanted blocks, but the top platforms (the ones being fought on) are part of what gets removed. what may happen is just shorten the stage (x axis) and freeze it (no jacks and we get to keep DK in the back. plus, left ledge). so, something to look forward to.

i'm also in the process of removing the catapult from pirate ship. this, with the bombs-be-gone code means the only problems left are the tornado (which really isn't a major problem, so get over it), and the water. once we can figure out the properties for water i can make it intangible (still there graphically, but you won't interact with it).

i may decide to release a second version of PictoPlus with some more changes to alleviate some more camping issues, though this will be near the bottom of my to-do list.

for the summit, i am trying some things to make the stage look even better and hopefully remove the sudden death issue. you can expect this one soon hopefully, barring any unforeseen problems that should arise.

finally, i'm also looking at Mario Bros. for a possible fix. now, i know most people want to just leave it, but you can blow me. stop being so god ****ed lazy/conservative and just try some of our ideas before arguing about how some stage just can't be saved. jesus ****ing christ, if i hear anybody say we should ditch a stage besides hanenbow i'll have to go ape **** on them. seriously. we have ideas, let us show you what they are before you go off on why we should just abandon all hope, you leaches. seriously, this isn't the place to tell us to just forget a stage. if we can see a way to fix it, then we will.

 

[ValTroX]

I'm really looking forward to Pirate ship, I don't remember much of it since I barely play it, but if the tornado(when the gravity is greatly lowered) passes fast, then it's not an issue, however, if it takes more than 20 secs, it can be a bother.