The Competitive Brawl Stage Hacking Hub: Dat Valentine's Day Status

[MK26]

hmmm

i should

but i dont

iunno why

oh ya

its cuz i know what needs to be fixed

more testing wouldnt really do much unfortunately

esp since these stages are lame when unfinished

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Then maybe a list of what has been done and what needs to be done for the stages you are working on, at least? So that people don't come in and ask for stuff that's already been done. Saves everyone some time in the long run.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Yoshi's Island Melee is going to be a major pain. Once I partially remove all the unwanted polygons, the stage would just be so small. If I extend the base, the texture stretching would be very noticeable. Putting this on hold.

See how tiny it would be. I don't think that's very playable.

you stretch it and then give it to me. i'll worry about if it looks bad or not. [/fake superiority]

but, yeah, being serious now, if you could just stretch it out that would be fantastic. i think i have it at 2 right now in BBox.

I didn't have much hope for YI:M xD, still I want you guys to fix Green Greens, Pirate Ship or Japes(in that order )

for pirate we may be going the code route (no bombs code is nice, but a no catapult/tornado would be even better. and even then, the tornado isn't that big of a deal).

as for JJ, we can fix the ledges easily, but the water will be annoying... i'm going to work on a couple more stages for now, but when i get past this next week of tests i'll get right on it.

AMK gave us a pac for GGs with no blocks, but people seem to not like that idea, so we'll try for the idea i posted on the front page. to be honest, nobody has really decided on a good solution for GGs yet.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

So why aren't there any blocks on that YI:M image? I think the set that was furthest to the left should stay.

As for Pirate Ship, it would be perfect, IMO, if there were no bombs, no catapult, and no low-gravity effect while in the tornado part. The water: I have mixed feelings about. As much as I hate water camping and splash fights, I think the water should stay...

For Jungle Japes, is to possible to slow down how fast the current drags you?

As for Green Greens, what is listed in FroHo's opening post is probably ideal. I'm thinking a max of 2 rows of blocks, 3 at the max (but 2 is better, IMO). As for apples, there are exploding ones, but the apples aren't that much of a problem, so I think they should stay.

 

[AMKalmar]

The blocks are a different model. I just edited a few screenshots from BrawlBox to show what it would look like if I removed the right half.

 

[RPGsFTW]

How do these things work? They should definitely be added as stages, with updated textures that fit with Brawl, of course. =] :

Especially these two:

 

[FrozenHobo]

where did you get those?

 

[Brizzle]

^What he said. Cuz that's awesome.

 

[MK26]

brawlbox creation thread

theyre 2d images btw

 

[RPGsFTW]

I found them here:
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=54109

But does being 2D images hurt them at all as a stage? It looks like they can be played on, as seen on the Saffron City stage. If so, you guys should make them Brawl+ worthy. Who hasn't wanted Smash 64 stages in Brawl since it came out? I really want them, especially Metal Mario's stage, since it wasn't playable before. I think it was only playable with GameShark codes on an N64 emulator. =P

^This one came with a link!
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?kzj1nez3iok

 

[FrozenHobo]

um, i think they're just being used as templates... mewtwo_2000 is making these stages in 3d and using these as guidelines for where everything should go. why would we want 2d stages anyway? i love 64 stages, but just having them in 2d would be an insult.

 

[RPGsFTW]

^That's why I said that someone should add a texture, or something, to them to make them look more like Brawl. =]

 

[AMKalmar]

Playing on a non-stage like that could be difficult. You would constantly have to line up the background with where your character is positioned. No 2D please gentlemen. I mean... GENTLEMEN.

It looks bad, but experiment with the blocks, see which attacks hit and which don't. Abuse the smash cancels (Lucas usmash>uair is pretty darn good) and use that ceiling to combo throws.

I thought about putting ledges on the blocks... I think no.

 

[FrozenHobo]

did you try stretching? did it make the background move too?

 

[AMKalmar]

Do you mean increase the X scale of the whole thing or move some vertices? Either way no. I honestly think this stage isn't bad for singles as it is. I thought it would be bad but I've begun to like it.

Hah, tether camping, tether the ledge just before the block turns solid.

 

[Brizzle]

I had an idea for YI:M+. I got it to work in BrawlBox, but it didn't work in-game. Maybe someone else could try. Here's what I did: I set the Translation X of StgDxYorster to 75, the Rotation Y to 65, and set Scale X,Y, and Z to 1.25. I like the look of it in BBox, but it won't work in-game. I'm pretty new to making stages with BBox, so it could just be a noob mistake (it probably is). so if someone would like to try that out, it would only take a minute or two, and I'd really appreciate it.

 

[FrozenHobo]

well, it looks really good right now, but could you still see if you can increase it on the x axis? bbox wouldn't do it, so i would like to see if hexing could do better.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Interesting YI:M. Although I'm going to do a little theoreocrafting and say that it might screw with the recoveries of a bunch of characters, so maybe each block haven't a ledge could be reconsidered...
What was your reasoning against ledges on the lower blocks, anyway?

 

[AMKalmar]

Advanced technique! Wave-Zamusing, walk up to the green pipe... mash downB. Try as I might, I can't seem falcon kick into the warp pipe.

I would use BrawlBox to stretch it. That didn't work so the other option is to move all the vertices that make up the right wall further to the right. That's what I was referring to when I said this was going to be a pain and that is still on hold.

PC, it's ledges on all or none. Wait, idea get.

Goodnight gentlemen.

 

[FrozenHobo]

thats interesting... i think i prefer the first version, though.

if you can make each block grabbable (so that the result would be only the outside most block can be grabbed) then i'll just stop work on GHZ and go with that since the result would pretty much be the same.

note, though, that i'd still like to see a stretched version of the stage too.

 

[Plum]

I tried both versions of YI:M and I prefer the second in terms of layout. It isn't cramped, and the platform made of spinning blocks in the first version created issues with teching. As long as one block wasn't spinning I was able to more or less camp under it, DI/SDI everything up and tech to live to some crazy percents. Given the right situation it was basically a cave of life.

I would love to see the second version with better ledges, the only issue with the stage that I see is how its unplayable for tethers in the current form. I have no idea on what is and what is not possible with stage hacking, but my ideal solution would be to have the outermost spinning block a permanent ledge that no longer spins.

I don't know exactly how the spinning blocks are supposed to act right now, but every once in a while a block would decide it wants to be a ledge, and then a few seconds later you wouldn't be able to grab it anymore. Occasionally a tether would snap to the ledge through the blocks, but like 99% of the time a tether would fail to grab a ledge as long as the block covering the ledge wasn't spinning. Even then, I had a lot of instances where it still wouldn't grab the ledge even if the block was spinning. I like being able to abuse the spinning platforms for strange combos/defensive purposes, so I wouldn't want to see all the spinning blocks go, but it definitely needs a permanent ledge on the ends of the stage.

I got some matches in on the stage with characters with standard recoveries, and while using them it was well received. The slopes of the pipe offer some great approach options with the huge slide you get from landing on it, and especially fast falling onto it. And I see it being a very annoying CP for characters like Pikachu who shoot projectiles downwards to abuse the high ground.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Yeah, the ledges are really glitchy. But once the ledges work the way it should, we wouldn't need a permanent block on the outside that doesn't spin. It would be that the outermost non-currently-spinning block will be grabbable (instead of blocks random deciding to be grabbable or not as of right now). This would essentially allow players to "move" the ledges inwards temporarily to suit their advantage. Then there's the other stuff you mentioned that makes this stage an interesting counterpick.

As for stretching the stage horizontally, it would make the stage look pretty funky, as the pipe's corners won't be a right angle anymore if it's stretched that way. At this point, I think the newest layout (but with fixed ledges) of AMK's is the best (but maybe with a four-five block layout instead of a three-six?).

 

[ValTroX]

why not make all the blocks solid and remove the upper ones? We will still have a unique layout and be a nice counterpick. Or, you could make the ground blocks solid and the upper ones normal, but you can tech on them and live through crazy %
EDIT: That is, of course, if you can give the blocks different properties.

 

[AMKalmar]

ValTrox, try the second layout. Or the one I'm about to make.

When I said it's all or none with the blocks, that's exactly what I meant. There is one block model, one collision data for it, 1 hurtbox, 9 instances that all behave exactly the same. I don't know why the ledges were deciding not to work. I have a feeling the tether was getting confused since there were too many ledges to choose from and it chose the wrong one.

Another thing I was thinking about is no ceiling on the bottom of the blocks. I decided against it because certain recovery moves would no longer plough through the blocks to the ledge and then the walls on the side would also be a nuisance. With no ceiling or walls they might as well be permanent fixtures.

The glitchy ledges could be because I put both ledges on one plane. I'll make another plane and put one on each. 4 left, 5 right.

Okay, how do I create a plane between 2 points in BrawlBox's stage collision editor?

Building on what Plum said, people with downward shooting projectiles are the only ones who would like the high ground. Most characters are at a disadvantage when they're higher because none of their hitboxes reach that low save for dash attacks and some dtilts that angle with the ground. A 45˚ slope is too much. As I said, most ground attacks don't hit that low and you get strange glitches (zamus downB).

 

[FrozenHobo]

why not make all the blocks solid and remove the upper ones? We will still have a unique layout and be a nice counterpick. Or, you could make the ground blocks solid and the upper ones normal, but you can tech on them and live through crazy %
EDIT: That is, of course, if you can give the blocks different properties.

if you hit the blocks from bellow they instantly go into their spinning animation. whatever CoL they might make gets destroyed instantly as soon as they hit it. thats one fo the things i liked about the original layout of the stage.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

I don't know why the ledges were deciding not to work. I have a feeling the tether was getting confused since there were too many ledges to choose from and it chose the wrong one.

It's not that. (Tethers wouldn't grab a ledge if there was something in the way, anyway.) It's that it can or can't be grabbed even by normal means on seemingly random occasions.

 

[AMKalmar]

Shopping all day didn't help me figure out how to create a plane between 2 points using the BrawlBox stage collision editor. I may have to resort to hexing it in.

 

[Shadic]

Ask Kryal in the thread?

 

[MK26]

highlight point A, alt-click point B.

 

[AMKalmar]

Thank you Maestro. gntlmn

 

[FrozenHobo]

you can only grab the right side of each block.

 

[AMKalmar]

GNTLMN

I actually tested this one, I am really liking it. Seriously. I love it.

Picture with moved spawn points because I like this stage so much. I just have to move the pokemon trainer, pikmin, and item bones and this is totally complete. I'll probably do that this evening and then upload the finished version.

You can grab the block ledges just fine, but grabbing the solid ledge is safer. If someone grabs a block ledge, spike them and the block. Lv.9 Ness found that out for me. Ouch.

 

[Gardevior]

Can you post the Freeze Stage code for Summit in the OP?

 

[Plum]

The new YI:M is MUCH better.
Ledges work right, and I'm liking the 4 to 5 block ratio over the 3 to 6.

Watching your opponent attempt to sweetspot a ledge only to have that ledge disappear is too good.

 

[DQP]

GNTLMN

I actually tested this one, I am really liking it. Seriously. I love it.

Picture with moved spawn points because I like this stage so much. I just have to move the pokemon trainer, pikmin, and item bones and this is totally complete. I'll probably do that this evening and then upload the finished version.

You can grab the block ledges just fine, but grabbing the solid ledge is safer. If someone grabs a block ledge, spike them and the block. Lv.9 Ness found that out for me. Ouch.

shweet. this is awesome. thanks, man

 

[ValTroX]

The new YI:M looks awesome AMK! you totally surprised me. I'll wait until you upload the finished version 'cause my wii is on a bag and i need to plug all the stuff into the tv(kinda heavy). So when you get the finished version here, I'll immediately test it and see if everything is fine

 

[Shadic]

Holy crap, AMK. This stage is AMAZING. You can have some amazing hijinks with down-throws on those blocks. I think the camera needs a bit of work, though. I'll tinker with that and do item spawns, and post a link if anybody wants to mess with it.

 

[FrozenHobo]

amk, since you've gotten the blocks to have ledges i'm just going to drop GHZ (no point having 2 stages with the same gimmick ). with that fixed 75m, though, i think we can freeze it to remove the jacks. and if thats the case then i'll move DK back into place, too.

 

[AMKalmar]

What were you going to do with Green Hill Zone? If you're saying the spinning blocks in Yoshi's Island Melee are too similar to the breakable pieces of ground in the middle, I think they're quite different.

What's wrong with the camera Shadic? If you think it's comes to close to the death boundaries that's because I wanted to keep it closer to the original in that aspect. The camcenter is centered on the solid part of the stage on the x axis. I could center it vertically aswell if you think it's too low. Top and bottom boundaries are left alone. I did say I would do item spawns this evening an include it with the pokemon trainer and spawn point stuff... patience grasshopper?

 

[FrozenHobo]

my idea for GHZ was to make one side of the stage 2 of the breakable platform (removing the stuff past it) and turn the other side into a grabbable part. i say we probably could find a different idea since they both would have the same gimmick of breakable/moving ledges.

i also didn't get a link for that 75m fix.