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IF (if) the sh-upair is guaranteed, then it's more consistent against the floaty members of the cast. It's very easy to miss a character like Luigi with a short/fullhop-fair.I guess, but why do that when you can fair and get what seems like a guaranteed jab afterward?
No. He has five frames of invincibility from frames 22-26. Hitbox is active frame 22. You are most likely encountering the increased damage resulting in the move overpowering attacks that it might not otherwise.I humbly apologize if this kind of post doesn't belong in the Zard's Metagame thread, since it's a question. I couldn't find a Q & A thread to ask here.
Just wondering, but does Charizard's invincibility window in his F-smash increase the longer you charge the move? I'm getting surprising results messing around with the move that lead me to believe that it may or may not increase.
I see. Then it was the former thought that I had in mind that involves the move used against Zard's F-smash. Thank you for the answer.No. He has five frames of invincibility from frames 22-26. Hitbox is active frame 22. You are most likely encountering the increased damage resulting in the move overpowering attacks that it might not otherwise.
EDIT: Zard's frame data http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Charizard
Highe damage = more hitlag maybe?I see. Then it was the former thought that I had in mind that involves the move used against Zard's F-smash. Thank you for the answer.
EDIT: Actually, y'see, the move used against Zard's F-smash was Shulk's Vision counters. All 3 Vision variants including Vision, Dash Vision, & Power Vision all slow down time so-to-speak. Basically I got interesting results from countering Zard's F-smash uncharged, fully charged, & semi-charged.
I asked the question because Power Vision Forwarded would be able to counter an uncharged F-smash, but not a fully charged F-smash. Moves that possess invincibility windows like Jigglypuff's Rest & Zard's F-smash can potentially avoid being hit by Shulk's Vision counter since the invincibility frames also get slowed down.
Also try to make sure the enemy is behind Charizard, U-Air's hitbox starts right when Charizard's head starts to go in the other direction. Might have some juggling potential, the range is good for a killing attack.Don't think that Dthrow > Uair is guaranteed at low % but at ~80% (aka kill % on a lot of characters) if you can bait an air dodge you can get under them and uair for the kill.
Wouldn't Up-Tilt and Up-Smash be better since they're a bit safer, and won't encourage your enemy to come out and hit you? Even if they don't do as much shield damage, they seem generally more practical in most situations. Charizard doesn't seem like he can do much to pressure shields except maybe Flamethrower and sometimes his jab, I don't think, especially not with his grab.Rock Smashing someone shielding on a platform above you will shield poke pretty often, depending on the character and your spacing. You want that rock as deep inside their shield as possible. Short hop so you won't land on the platform and get punished if you don't poke.
Could be this, eh it probably is. What's odd is that a regular Power Vision will counter Zard's F-smash whether it's uncharged or fully charged. I'd have to study this a bit more to get a better understanding of it. Still, Zard's invincibility is quite something.Highe damage = more hitlag maybe?
Hitlag doesn't increase the frame counter.
I'm still trying to identify Charizard's truly awful matchups. Other than and I don't have strong feelings on what Zard's worst MUs are. For what it's worth I also play .Even if there's a thread for this already, having a discussion about it in the metagame thread would help as well; What are some secondaries that could help offset Charizard's weaker match-ups? Ones that you all personally have? (I also ask this because so far I've been too stubborn to consider one. If I was just talking about characters we played on the side, I would pick Dr. Mario, but I don't think he covers any of Charizard's problem match-ups.)
Bowser might be a good choice against Mega Man, for example. Unlike Charizard or the other characters, at low percents Mega Man's pellets (lemons) don't actually make him flinch, which lets him attack and close the distance a lot more efficiently than Charizard could.
Well sometimes eating a smash to FB Luma off stage can be worth it but FB isn't that useful against someone who doesn't need to commit to attacks very much.I'm really interested to know how this impacts MUs. One of the reasons I think is so bad for Zard is that Flare Blitz is pretty much useless while Luma is still alive.
It depends how frequently you used DR and what matchups you actually used it to attack/approach in. When we discuss MUs here, we kinda point out what would be an option on paper but in practice, a lot of it comes down to the player's personal preference for the MU unless there is literally only one option available.I'm really interested to know how this impacts MUs. One of the reasons I think is so bad for Zard is that Flare Blitz is pretty much useless while Luma is still alive.
Question @ Saturn_ ! I was wondering what you think of the Jigglypuff and Charizard matchup. Advatages? Disadvantages? (More disadvantages preferably so I'll be ready for ya in a few weeks. lol)In bracket tonight, in a match game 1 I went against a and won, game 2 went against a and lost, and game 3 went against and won. I knew the guy and he said he had tried to prepare against Zard since he knew I play it.
How do you guys feel about the MK matchup? I feel like we can outspace him and Flare Blitz is suuuuper powerful against him. I think you actually win neutral against him.
Jigglypuff has a terrible matchup with Zard. Fair beats out everything Jiggly wants to do and dtilt/ftilt completely outspace her. Getting Zard to sit in shield, trying to shieldgrab Jiggly, is probably her best strat because you can use the multiple jumps to bait a grab attempt and then punish. Zard is also vulnerable to roll-rests because it is possible to get inside his range and rest him when he can't hit you.Question @ Saturn_ ! I was wondering what you think of the Jigglypuff and Charizard matchup. Advatages? Disadvantages? (More disadvantages preferably so I'll be ready for ya in a few weeks. lol)
Thanks for the tipJigglypuff has a terrible matchup with Zard. Fair beats out everything Jiggly wants to do and dtilt/ftilt completely outspace her. Getting Zard to sit in shield, trying to shieldgrab Jiggly, is probably her best strat because you can use the multiple jumps to bait a grab attempt and then punish. Zard is also vulnerable to roll-rests because it is possible to get inside his range and rest him when he can't hit you.
People are saying Zard's dtilt got buffed so that it hits characters at point blank. This improves his matchup with Jiggs.Thanks for the tip
Very small characters like and can/could get inside Charizard's reach, absolutely. I haven't had a chance to get in the lab, does this push someone sitting in shield? Simply moving them away matters.Zard's dtilt apparently got a windbox on dtilt to bring peeps into the hitbox. Not sure how that helps with the jiggs matchup, since from what I've seen Jiggs likes to stay in the air.