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The CEO: Dreamland discussion thread

Iron Kraken

Iron Kraken

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0megaZer0 said:
So what is the most anticipated matchup of the tournament?
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I'm very interested in seeing what ESAM can do against ZeRo and what Samsora can do against Void.

5 of the top 8 (Mr. R, Void, ESAM, Marss, Samsora) have a chance to win their first major.
 
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chaos11011

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Iron Kraken said:
Yeah, I didn't elaborate on the matchup before because chaos pretty much covered it, but that set perfectly illustrated the Rosa / Duck Hunt matchup.

Coming from the Rosa perspective, the neutral is annoying as hell and it can be very difficult to get an opening. Rosa is forced to approach and there's no clear way to rush in. Rosa has no good answer for the gunman. Spacing out with things like jab doesn't work well for her in this match up, so she's forced to play out of her comfort zone. Luma's going to die a lot thanks to the can.

But it is possible to play evasively and wait for Luma to come back. And once she gets an opening she absolutely bodies Duck Hunt. Being above Rosa or being offstage against Rosa is not a pretty situation for Duck Hunt. And that's what still keeps the matchup in Rosa's favor.
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Well said. I have a regular Rosalina training partner and the match up really boils down to either Duck Hunt keeping Rosa out or Rosa putting DH above her. It's quite stressful for both sides honestly, but Rosa has the upperhand.

I wanted to see Raito bait out Gravitational Pull a lot more. He just let it happen. Also, if DHs Fair hits both Rosalina and Luma, DH can UTilt into Nair Luma for some immediate pressure once Rosa starts getting launched far enough. Raito didnt use that at all.

(Also for future ref, I dont go by chaos11011 anymore, as this is a 7 year old account. I'm Season, the DH main from New England. I know signatures dont show up on mobile, so you probably didnt see it, but it says it there!)
 
The-Technique

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Dammit I just wanna see Nairo take a set from Zero just once in 2017. If he beats Mr. R he's at least guaranteed 3rd place.
 
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Vyrnx

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This has been an excellent tournament for Sheik.

Particularly VoiD's set vs Zack showed how strong VoiD has gotten in the MU. VoiD found a way to put damage on Bayo at the ledge in a way I haven't seen other players be able to do (usually with needles) and he got Zack there easily with combos --> ledge trap, fair oos --> combo --> ledge trap. If it weren't for small mistakes that led to witch times, some of those games would've been dominant two stocks for VoiD. Edit: this stuff is actually referring specifically to game 4, I couldn't remember which game it was.

This is one of the best chances Sheik has had for winning a major, the biggest obstacle being ZeRo, but if he gets upset, all bets are off.
 
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Laken64

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Also is it just me or is Anti growing more and more inconsistent this season? Anti's counterpick playstyle is hurting him more against other players, (losing to marss, pugwest, Nicko, MVD) the main one being Samsora with a 2-0 record over him this season, beating his Mario, Zss and diddy. At this point Captain Zack is looking more top 10 material than anti atm because if anti doesn't pull out of this I can't see him in top 10 tbh.
 
|RK|

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Laken64 said:
Also is it just me or is Anti growing more and more inconsistent this season? Anti's counterpick playstyle is hurting him more against other players, (losing to marss, pugwest, Nicko, MVD) the main one being Samsora with a 2-0 record over him this season, beating his Mario, Zss and diddy. At this point Captain Zack is looking more top 10 material than anti atm because if anti doesn't pull out of this I can't see him in top 10 tbh.
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Not to say what he should or shouldn't do (tho that's kinda what I'mma do), buttttt....

I think he needs to stick with one solid main and one secondary. I remember he said he likes fast characters with swords before - maybe Lucina might suit him better now that she's good? Or start maining Cloud and keep Mario as a secondary. All up to him ofc. I wanna see this man succeed.

On a related note, Dabuz mentioned that he feels like one of the reasons he doesn't get upset as much is twofold. One, he *knows* his MUs. The other is that he plays against all sorts of levels of players consistently. *shrug*

Feel like many players learn MUs from one person and get caught off guard later on.
 
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my_T

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Vyrnx said:
This has been an excellent tournament for Sheik.

Particularly VoiD's set vs Zack showed how strong VoiD has gotten in the MU. VoiD found a way to put damage on Bayo at the ledge in a way I haven't seen other players be able to do (usually with needles) and he got Zack there easily with combos --> ledge trap, fair oos --> combo --> ledge trap. If it weren't for small mistakes that led to witch times, some of those games would've been dominant two stocks for VoiD. Edit: this stuff is actually referring specifically to game 4, I couldn't remember which game it was.

This is one of the best chances Sheik has had for winning a major, the biggest obstacle being ZeRo, but if he gets upset, all bets are off.
Click to expand...
I was going to post about this. Void showing just how ridiculously oppressive Sheik can be in neutral. Needles still easily looking like one of the best moves in the game
 
Ziodyne 21

Ziodyne 21

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Laken64 said:
Also is it just me or is Anti growing more and more inconsistent this season? Anti's counterpick playstyle is hurting him more against other players, (losing to marss, pugwest, Nicko, MVD) the main one being Samsora with a 2-0 record over him this season, beating his Mario, Zss and diddy. At this point Captain Zack is looking more top 10 material than anti atm because if anti doesn't pull out of this I can't see him in top 10 tbh.
Click to expand...
Sadly..the same things can be said for Salem as well. He still does well in relatively smaller competions but he really seems to fall of at most majors. Notably I think his losses to Marss and ANTi here at dreamland were
considered upsets but correct me if I am wrong.

At point Zack can be well on his way to be majority agreed upon top Bayo main. If he continues to outpreform Salem in majors like he has for quite a while.
 
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FeelMeUp

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I need to stop talking about Sheik's matchups. Every time I do, a Sheik proves me right(Blank and VoiD in the same tourney).
Jjab430 said:
Sheik will never win a major.
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don't gotta win a major when you have some of the most consistent placings in the game.
VoiD ran into a relatively hard matchup without seeming to know it all that well. Happens sometimes.
 
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Fenny

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Samsora's movement was on some Dance Dance Revolution ish

then he started reading him for filth in game 4
 
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NotLiquid

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Man Pikachu is so fun to play and watch but there's just no way to reconcile his bad KO potential against a character like Diddy Kong who can win neutral the same amount of times and hit confirm into a kill with the same effort.
 
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TDK

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Pikachu has all of like two reliable kill options (Thunder and Usmash), it just depends on how well you land them, which is admittedly very ahrd, even for ESAM.

And then while you work to land two very hard to land Kill options your opponent has Needles>BF, Dtilt Usmash, Killing Throws, Luma anything, LCS, Shoryu, and more.
 
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chaos11011

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Other than Samosra's explosive moments, Void was looking like the best player in the world. His neutral game was so scary game 1 and 2. He fell apart game 3, but damn, makes me want to play Sheik again.
 
TDK

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Mr. R's dodging ZSS's up air strings so well. That seems to be a huge part of the matchup, it doesn't seem like ZSS has much going outside of Up Air strings vs Sheik.
 
TDK

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Mr. R :4sheik: 3-1 Nairo :4zss:

Mr. R made ZSS look like a bad character some of those games. I don't think Nairo actually got an Up Air string that lead into anything.
 
Finh009

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Dabuz :rosalina: 3-1 ESAM :4pikachu:

ESAM was very good at getting rid of Luma. Unfortunately, it wasn't enough to take the set.
 
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Rooting for Zero to win this one.

If Dabuz does? Oh Jesus the uproar over Rosa will begin...
 
Vyrnx

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Nairo didn't get any grab confirms on Mr. R outside of fair followups. When he went for uair his spacing was always off and he'd whiff.

The one uair uair up b he had, he used side b by accident and the commentators thought he side B'd on purpose. It wasn't going to kill anyway.

There are only a few select times where ZSS should be getting kills with uair (uair) up b. But the assumption from viewers and most commentators is that a ZSS getting a grab at 35 means the player needs to ladder combo and the ladder combo is supposed to kill from ground level, and when it doesn't they say something about nerfs despite the fact that that didn't even kill in 2015 (but such is the world of 98% of people not knowing how ZSS jank works).

ZSS players for a long time needed to start converting fairs, bairs, and uair fairs off of grab and use less up b. It keeps uair fresh and gives ZSS stage control that she can't get when she ends a combo with up b. Nairo and Marss have gotten better about that. ZSS players get the vast majority of their kills off of up b oos and bair anyway, not ladder combos, nair flip kick, etc.

Game one Mr. R vs Nairo they both played extremely high level Smash that's typical of their sets, but after that Nairo stopped adapting. Always dsmashing at the ledge and getting hit by either bf or the wind hitbox on vanish, flip kicking into the stage out of pressure when Mr. R was scouting for uairs on that from the beginning, etc.

I was predicting Mr. R to win this set either way.
 
|RK|

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FeelMeUp said:
I need to stop talking about Sheik's matchups. Every time I do, a Sheik proves me right(Blank and VoiD in the same tourney).

don't gotta win a major when you have some of the most consistent placings in the game.
VoiD ran into a relatively hard matchup without seeming to know it all that well. Happens sometimes.
Click to expand...
Wellll, I wouldn't say that. I imagine Sheik players play her because they believe she can win a major.
 
NotLiquid

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Nairo :4zss: 3 - 1 Samsora :4peach:

Samsora could have had that second game after that incredible punish. Still though, 7th at Midwest Mayhem and 5th at CEO Dreamland, two of the most stacked back-to-back majors. He's been putting in really hard work with Peach and it's great to see. I want to see Umeki and Kie come stateside again.
 
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TDK

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Nairo :4zss: 3-2 Dabuz :rosalina:

Nairo stole that from Dabuz

ZeRo has this easily though, the last person that could pose a reasonable threat to him is out
 
The-Technique

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I think Nairo should have switched back to ZSS after winning that match with Lucina.

Nairo's a great player but he dashes in way too much with Lucina, who has way more options while walking.
 
Ark of Silence101

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TDK said:
Nairo :4zss: 3-2 Dabuz :rosalina:

Nairo stole that from Dabuz

ZeRo has this easily though, the last person that could pose a reasonable threat to him is out
Click to expand...
This proves my point about Marss, not being as good Nairo, he also got rekt in the ditto against him this tournament.
 
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DariusM27

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Of course upsets have happened. A Marth player beat ZeRo. So has a Palutena, a Lucario, and a Duck Hunt Dog.
Upsets happen plenty of the time.
 
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