Welp, that's also true.
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The BlazBlue Thread: all the imports!
- Thread starter Lythium
- Start date
Zero_Gamer
Smash Master
Noel shouldn't even exist.
arturefo
Smash Journeyman
of course she should.she is so cool.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 11,841
Zero_Gamer
Smash Master
A: No, she's not.
B: It was a joke about the story. She's really not supposed to exist.
B: It was a joke about the story. She's really not supposed to exist.
LivewiresXe
Smash Hero
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.
Now, normally I wouldn't say much but...2 and a half years of maining says I should. A good Noel can take advantage of the many pokes she has within combos and in CS2 a lot of her Drive parts can be canceled into Optic Barrel or Muzzle Flitter, and there are a number of varying things with her that have been pointed out and explained. The reason she has difficulty with Tager is because most of her moves have projectile properties and a number of Tager moves and things can completely pass through/negate 'projectiles', hence making a lot of her non A/B moves things that you have to work into.
There are things people have to look out for while playing against Noel that are much more simple than "does this hit high or low?". Things like whether or not she'll Super Jump with j.D in a combo, whether the 2D part of a combo in the corner or such will pass over, which range of Optic Barrel will get thrown out as yo charge in, whether a 3C or 6B will come out, whether you need to prepare for a Haida Loop carry (which is quite possibly the hardest freaking thing I have EVER tried with any character in the game), and stuff like that. Hell, even her Astral is viable.
Yes she's used a lot, but she's used a lot partly because she's good and people will naturally hop on that bandwagon.
Sorry to rant but I get a bit uh...defensive when people get talking on stuff like that.
Crusayer
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2009
- Messages
- 1,451
People hardly ever really care that much about optic barrel zoning. It's just there but never really pose a real threat at the long distance. Now I have no idea what you're talking about whether or not we should be paying attention to the DIRECTION of which someone is getting comboed or which combo they choose to do. If noel is coming out from the corner, it's obvious she'll do a super jump j.D to cross up and put you back into the corner. Haida looping is there just for damage and even a lot of noels out there don't do it due to inconsistency. I don't need to worry about how you combo. I just need to know what's at the end and how I can prevent the next combo starter. If you wanna talk about how diverse a combo can be, just look at jin instead. Way way more different combos than noel ever uses.
3C vs 6B can hardly be called a "which way". 3C is a typical poke that's unsafe and will end your string. 6B is just like a regular overhead. Hardly ever used in stagger strings.
Drive strings are never that safe against higher level players. Everything is negative on block so what you have left is try to end your string early, safely, and get out. It's her normal staggers that people might have trouble with.
Things I think people usually should be on the lookout for vs Noel is random optic barrels, 2D crouch cross up. 6A CH anti-air. 6B overhead oki (not that reliable). Throws in general (especially that air throw since it leads to massive damage). 4D upper body invincibility. Assault through doesn't work on higher level players (only serves only to crush a primer, lowest frame disadvantage and can possibly get you out of the corner).
The only reason she's even up there in the tier list is actually because of her randomness that leads to HUGE damage.
Makoto stood at S tier in CS2 and yet no one played as her (in japan anyway).
She's now dropped several tiers and even less people play her.
Forever alone ;-;
3C vs 6B can hardly be called a "which way". 3C is a typical poke that's unsafe and will end your string. 6B is just like a regular overhead. Hardly ever used in stagger strings.
Drive strings are never that safe against higher level players. Everything is negative on block so what you have left is try to end your string early, safely, and get out. It's her normal staggers that people might have trouble with.
Things I think people usually should be on the lookout for vs Noel is random optic barrels, 2D crouch cross up. 6A CH anti-air. 6B overhead oki (not that reliable). Throws in general (especially that air throw since it leads to massive damage). 4D upper body invincibility. Assault through doesn't work on higher level players (only serves only to crush a primer, lowest frame disadvantage and can possibly get you out of the corner).
The only reason she's even up there in the tier list is actually because of her randomness that leads to HUGE damage.
Makoto stood at S tier in CS2 and yet no one played as her (in japan anyway).
She's now dropped several tiers and even less people play her.
Forever alone ;-;
LivewiresXe
Smash Hero
Uh, you realize that kind of just agrees with what I said, right?
Crusayer
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2009
- Messages
- 1,451
What I'm saying is that she has tools that begin strings. She doesn't have tools to continue those pressuring, which makes her a linear type of character vs someone that knows how to block.
Vs characters like Tao, Litchi, Jin, Hazama, Rachel, you're actually afraid of their kind of strings because of how much pressure they put on you from spaced projectiles that make you not want to move to constant overhead / cross up pressure.
Iuno what I'm really talking about here anymore. `-`.
Vs characters like Tao, Litchi, Jin, Hazama, Rachel, you're actually afraid of their kind of strings because of how much pressure they put on you from spaced projectiles that make you not want to move to constant overhead / cross up pressure.
Iuno what I'm really talking about here anymore. `-`.
Obviously I don't know the entire Japanese scene but I remember a lot of Makoto players in CS2.
Maybe not as many as Yun players in AE, but certainly more than enough to justify refuting the 'no one played as her' comment.
Crusayer, I pretty much agree with everything you've said, except your statement that no one in Japan played Makoto in CS2. Also, Noel doesn't need a CH 6A to start a combo. Just a regular 6A will suffice. 
Things like 2D cross-ups, sj.D in combos, haida loop, etc. That stuff is what the Noel player needs to be thinking about. Not the opponent. Your opponent needs to respect these options, but they're not going to particularly care if you used a sj.D or a regular j.D in a combo.
...
And for people who are saying Noel is exceptionally easy: her combos are not particularly difficult. They do have some hard parts, the same as everyone else's. But let's not fool ourselves, this is BB, nothing is really, really difficult. Online, winning with Noel is laughably easy. Offline, harder than you might give it credit for. I'm not going to say she's not dumb, because she kind of is. And her meterless midscreen damage is almost as ridiculous as Makoto's. However, she has weaknesses that are easy to exploit, and there's this fabled technique called blocking that makes Noel easy to deal with.
That took longer to write than I thought it would.
"Pokes within combos"? It seems like you are confusing pressure/blockstrings with combos. You can start a combo with a poke or pressure with a poke, but you can't poke within a combo.
This is not a new development. Noel has always been able to do this since CT. Optic Barrel makes Noel's pressure safe regardless of normals or drive, and Muzzle Flitter does unprorated combo damage and can be used as a yomi mixup tool. But these are not things that make Noel particularly good in CS2.
I think when people are playing against Noel, they have to keep in mind that they have to respect her. And I'm not particularly talking about her mixup either. I mean, her mixup itself is a mixed bag. It's very easy to react to and going for an overhead is a risk in and of itself, but she's gets big damage off of those random hits, and her risk/reward is extremely high. Her damage output off of taking risks is amazing, and that is what makes Noel so good in CS2. Off of good starters, you're looking at scoring 4k every time.
Things like 2D cross-ups, sj.D in combos, haida loop, etc. That stuff is what the Noel player needs to be thinking about. Not the opponent. Your opponent needs to respect these options, but they're not going to particularly care if you used a sj.D or a regular j.D in a combo.
...
And for people who are saying Noel is exceptionally easy: her combos are not particularly difficult. They do have some hard parts, the same as everyone else's. But let's not fool ourselves, this is BB, nothing is really, really difficult. Online, winning with Noel is laughably easy. Offline, harder than you might give it credit for. I'm not going to say she's not dumb, because she kind of is. And her meterless midscreen damage is almost as ridiculous as Makoto's. However, she has weaknesses that are easy to exploit, and there's this fabled technique called blocking that makes Noel easy to deal with.
That took longer to write than I thought it would.
Maybe in Extend? Sure.
But in CS2, there were five Makoto players that qualified for SBO. And then the ones that didn't qualify, like Tsujikawa, Isa and Satoshi. Plus, the ones that I don't really know the names of. I dunno, I remember seeing more Makoto in CS2 than almost anyone else.
edit: But reflecting on it, there were also loads of Noel players, so you're quite right about that.
But in CS2, there were five Makoto players that qualified for SBO. And then the ones that didn't qualify, like Tsujikawa, Isa and Satoshi. Plus, the ones that I don't really know the names of. I dunno, I remember seeing more Makoto in CS2 than almost anyone else.
edit: But reflecting on it, there were also loads of Noel players, so you're quite right about that.
LivewiresXe
Smash Hero
Lyth, I understand what you're saying with that long and at parts don't disagree, but...well, this whole discussion thing since it was brought up has got me all touchy, defensive, and kind of irritated. It's not necessarily your fault, or even really Crusayer's, it's just one thing I can't stand is to have a bunch of things said by someone that kind of just comes out of the blue said that I don't agree with, only for well...things I say in defense of it to be picked apart by people who know what they're talking about. And uh...stuff. I guess I don't even know where I'm going with this or what I'm trying to say other than I suppose I'm not sure if this debate was even really necessary. Sorry...
Don't be sorry, dude. I'm not even mad or annoyed or anything. I'm totally with you on that. And I'm sorry if I came off sounding harsh, that wasn't my intent. I just wanted to give my opinion, and right some of the stuff that I believe was mistaken, that's all.Lyth, I understand what you're saying with that long and at parts don't disagree, but...well, this whole discussion thing since it was brought up has got me all touchy, defensive, and kind of irritated. It's not necessarily your fault, or even really Crusayer's, it's just one thing I can't stand is to have a bunch of things said by someone that kind of just comes out of the blue said that I don't agree with, only for well...things I say in defense of it to be picked apart by people who know what they're talking about. And uh...stuff. I guess I don't even know where I'm going with this or what I'm trying to say other than I suppose I'm not sure if this debate was even really necessary. Sorry...
We still Noel bros? <3
LivewiresXe
Smash Hero
Don't worry, I didn't think you came off harsh.
And of course we're still Noel siblings. After all, who would know her better than people that've been using her all this time?
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Noel mains can die in a fire. ( @ I sub Noel.)
Same with Rachel mains. (That was directed at Spelt.)
Smooth Criminal
@ I sub Noel.)Same with Rachel mains. (That was directed at Spelt.)
Smooth Criminal
Do I have to change this thread title to "where we hate every character" again?
Hazama mains.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
Thank you.
LivewiresXe
Smash Hero
dualseeker
Smash Ace
Hello! Just wanted to introduce myself here ^__^. I play BlazBlue pretty often and can't wait for Extend! I use Noel for a majority of my matches and sometimes use Rachel. If you want to play me, I'm on Xbox Live under the gamertag "dualseeker". I hope I'll be able to join in the discussion soon ^__^.
dualseeker
Smash Ace
Hello ^__^!
arturefo
Smash Journeyman
hi.i play on xbox too.ill add you so we can play sometime.
Hey, dualseeker!
I added your tag to the online compendium in the first post, and be sure to check it out if you're looking for some opponents on Live. :3
I added your tag to the online compendium in the first post, and be sure to check it out if you're looking for some opponents on Live. :3
dualseeker
Smash Ace
Oh, thanks Lithium ^__^. I sure will!
And thanks for adding me, aturefo! Can't wait to play ^__^!
And thanks for adding me, aturefo! Can't wait to play ^__^!
LivewiresXe
Smash Hero
Hey there, welcome. It's always good to see another member of the Vanguard. *thumbs up*
dualseeker
Smash Ace
Thanks ^__^. I've been a Noel main since CT! A proud member since 2009 ^__^! *thumbs up*
Nice to meet you!
LivewiresXe
Smash Hero
Yeah, same here. I think we'll get along just fine.
But Spelt doesn't main Rachel anymore so it would be hard to offend him by dissing Rachel. Maybe.
I've fought a good tao and I hate playing her. Her crossups are legit and her midscreen combos are the same as her corner combos unless she uses Almost Becoming Pretty ****ing Stupid.
I've fought a good tao and I hate playing her. Her crossups are legit and her midscreen combos are the same as her corner combos unless she uses Almost Becoming Pretty ****ing Stupid.
arturefo
Smash Journeyman
i love taos.
arturefo
Smash Journeyman
hueheue.i love those too.
Rutger
Smash Master
Crossups with Tao are kind of gimmicky imo. D~B is -5 so it can be punished. No crossup she has can really be abused anyways.
AB2 combos are some of my favorite in the game though, 4k+ in four seconds. :3