The Battle for Power! (Matchmaking & Video Thread)

[WwwWario]

Just a quick ganondorf combo vs c.falcon (FG)

That first stock was far beyond beautiful.

 

[mgleed]

Looking for some gameplay advice here. I played one of the best overall players I've ever played for about an hour on FG last week. He took at least 3/4 of the games and the only character he played more than once was Rosa, who he dominated me with (best ledge getups anyone?). I saved three of the replays to review some of my mistakes. I notice a little easier my obvious mis-inputs that he punishes (mostly smashes that I wanted to be tilts), but I'd appreciate some other perspectives to help me catch things I don't see as readily such as general bad habits or suggestions for things I should implement more, etc. Thanks!

 

[| Kailex |]

Rip

 

[Swoops]

Had some amazingly fun sets at our first local rabat last night. Lots of hype.

vs Yoshi (Yoshiken) shield break at the end of the first game
vs Fox (Wulfn) UTilt game 2

vs Jigglypuff (Shiny) comebacks. 0-death game 2
vs Yoshi (Yoshiken) janky Ganoncide

Feel free to watch my matches vs Shiek in Winners Finals and Grand Finals. Fair warning though, the matches will make you sad >.<. If you notice anything big you can definitely critique, but I feel like I played the match up about as well as I could barring a couple dumb things here and there.

 

[Daeyrat]

Questions for some here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGioSJZjyQ

1 - Is it a true combo?
2 - If not, can it somehow become one?
3 - If it is, is it viable? Can we find ourselves in this situation? Can we force this situation?

 

[verbatim]

dunno, video's private.

 

[Daeyrat]

Fixed. Don't know why it was set to private.

 

[Vermanubis]

Fellas, just as a courtesy to your fellow Ganons, try to comment on the person's vid who posted before you if you're posting a new vid.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I love Swoops ' dairs.

I don't always agree with 'em... but I always love 'em.

 

[| Kailex |]

mgleed try and use dtilt more often, there were a lot of situations were you couldve used it instead of f tilt, its safer and can link to aerials/set up juggle opportunities

Daeyrat looks like a true combo to me since dair is untechable

 

[Vermanubis]

Appreciate it, guys.

 

[GunGuts]

Hello Ganon Boards, I know I'm a bit late to the scene, but I've been lurking around Smashboards for about a year and I've always wanted to main Ganondorf. I've played every Smash game, including PM, and Ganon's been one of my favorite characters. So yeah, you can expect me to come here more often.

One last thing. I don't own a copy of Smash 4, but I was so itching to get involved more in the competitive scene that I had to make an account.

 

[verbatim]

Welcome to the Ganon boards. It's been my personal experience that the smash 4 ganonboards are an incredibly useful resource for learning and keeping up with the advancing Ganondorf metagame.

I learned how to play Ganondorf competitively in Smash 4 from these sources, so I thought I'd link them all in a convenient place,

Blobface's not-complete comprehensive Guide: This goes over all of his individual moves and when to use them. A few things have changed since this was written but the big keep away you need to take is that nair is now significantly better than it used to be. These two threads go more in-depth.

A2ZOMG's Edgeguarding guide: Ganondorf makes up for a low tier neutral with a top tier edgeguarding game. The way to play Ganondorf competitively and win is to make the absolute most you can out of offstage situations.

TheOrangeJacket's Missed tech choke followups list: Is helpful for learning character specific vulnerabilities. This is an image that conveys the same information, I have a copy on my phone so I can look at it mid tournament. It was originally posted in The Wise Ganon thread, which is worth reading through if you have the time.

Blobface explaining why you should ALWAYS pick Battlefield if your opponent doesn't strike it.

Wizard Foot Canceling tips and tricks

Advanced Stuff that I can't do/my to-do list

Tip N Slide: Explains how ledge mechanics enable Ganondorf to set up true combo's with his aerials.

Untechable: I didn't really want to post my own thread but it's the most concise english explanation of this. In Smash 4 Ganon (and Falco)'s dair has a special property such that if you hit someone while they are on the ground they cannot tech the hit. Since this rule also applies to footstools, you can use to set up some incredibly disturbing true combos.





Also I propose that we start calling Gunginir's Dair>footstool>Fast-fall tipman>Charged F-Smash combo "Odin's Spear" since his competitive moniker has a different meaning in Norse Mythology. It's also REALLY annoying referring to a 4 move combo by name.

 

[GunGuts]

Wow, that's a lot info. Thanks man. Also, when or if I ever get a 3DS, I really want to play some matches with you guys despite my noob skills.

 

[Sykkamorre]

Rip

Dude, you play really well but your downfall seems to come from using your second jump far too early when knocked offstage. Made you easy to get a read on for gimping.

 

[| Kailex |]

I choked, sadly not a flame choke.

 

[Swoops]

I choked, sadly not a flame choke.

On the positive side, it was pretty nice of you to run into so many lightning kicks for him :3.

But seriously, I think I saw 5 lightning kicks alone in the first match, and probably many more in the remaining set. That's 100+%. My main take away from that was you were playing a bit manic and overly mobile for no reason. You were constantly moving, and I'm not sure it had a purpose outside of making yourself a wider target for lightning kicks. You would have helped yourself quite a bit by calming down and being more deliberate with your buttons/movement since Zelda isn't a mobile or pressure heavy character, and the lightning kicks are a huge commitment.

mgleed I had some play by play notes written down somewhere that I'll post when I get a second. A general note: FAir/DTilt is your friend in the Rosa match up.

 

[MezzoMe]

Looking for some gameplay advice here. I played one of the best overall players I've ever played for about an hour on FG last week. He took at least 3/4 of the games and the only character he played more than once was Rosa, who he dominated me with (best ledge getups anyone?). I saved three of the replays to review some of my mistakes. I notice a little easier my obvious mis-inputs that he punishes (mostly smashes that I wanted to be tilts), but I'd appreciate some other perspectives to help me catch things I don't see as readily such as general bad habits or suggestions for things I should implement more, etc. Thanks!

Regarding the Rosa match-up, aside dodging using Ganon, you must go for hard reads.
Like, you need hard reads in neutral as she's just going to mash safe things against you otherwise(including the Nair that as a rule of thumb shouldn't be safe for her), comes by itself that for the disadvantaged states, you'll need even harder reads, she's going to pay quite a bit for her errors, the deal is making her domthose errors.

 

[Swoops]

http://gfycat.com/GracefulOrderlyErin

http://gfycat.com/ImmenseShoddyAmericanblackvulture

I wish I knew how to embed these >.<

 

[Deotay]

Buffalo had a 64 man Smash 4 tournament yesterday. I got 9th but I lost every set I had on stream. Fortunately that makes it easier to seek advice though, which I would greatly appreciate.

The Twitch vod is here.

Matches are:
1:41:15 vs. Fox
Money match between me and iModerz. I was pretty nervous because half the venue was watching and I know I played a couple moments poorly, like missed edge guards and shield grabs. Advice on what do to against Fox in neutral is appreciated.
Side Note: I was being coached by my friends PikaPika and Goggles in between rounds.

6:20:30 vs. Pikachu
This was against PikaPika. I got the first game but only because he kept missing the Flame Choke tech. The next 2 games I got 2 stocked. Advice on how to deal with Pikachu pressure would be nice.

6:48:40 vs. Toon Link
Me vs. Champ. I've faced him before with customs and 2 - 0'd him but without them I struggle with getting in and dealing with bombs. He started catching on to my rolling habits and killed me for it. Advice on how to play the neutral would be very helpful.
Side Note: The end of game 2 had THE MOST stressful Ganoncide of my life.

Thanks for looking through. I was really sad about not making top 8 but I'm here to improve after all.

 

[verbatim]

Pikachu/Ganon is a legitimate contender for wirst matchup in the game. He's hard to hit, Sheik is easier to edgeguard, and he can carry you across the screen and nair through your recovery mixups. If you're committed to playing Ganon in this matchup the best thing you can do is to make sure you get as much as humanly possible out of your punishes. Pikachu needs to be taking 20-30% per mistake they make.

Not to sound grim but this is probably the only matchup I would switch off of Ganon for with customs on.

 

[VenomCB]

I've recently started playing Smash4 competitively on a serious level and want to get some critique.
Here is a match I had against MJG in pools. He pulled away at the end for the win, but does anyone have any bad habits of mine to point out or any Ganon secrets I need informed of?

 

[Deotay]

I've recently started playing Smash4 competitively on a serious level and want to get some critique.
Here is a match I had against MJG in pools. He pulled away at the end for the win, but does anyone have any bad habits of mine to point out or any Ganon secrets I need informed of?

Villager is a very annoying match-up for Ganondorf obviously due to projectiles. However in your case, I'm really going to emphasize the fact that you NEED TO LEARN HOW TO POWERSHIELD.

 

[verbatim]

Out of all the characters in this game, Ganondorf is probably the most dependent on perfect shielding. Unlike most aspects of competitive smash this is honestly something you want to lab out with CPU's, perfectshielding is 100% muscle memory and you can't develop that in lag online. Your mindgames were on point but you ended up taking a SIGNIFICANT amount of damage because you didn't have a response to slingshot (tbf "powershield it" is every character's response, but I digress).

One thing I did pick up on watching game 1 was you double jumping in the air while Villager was on the ground. He didn't punish you for this, but if you get knocked off stage when you don't have your second jump your stock is gone, nine times out of ten.

 

[VenomCB]

Yeah I noticed my double jumping when I watched this after the fact. In the last two games, or at least the 2nd one I had that issue and lost my stocks due to it.

And yes powershields. I really have only played Ganon on For Glory. I haven't really done any lab time or just against CPU. I used to just play him for lolz, but then he got me better results than other "top tier" characters. This was only my second tournament using him after the first one when my Luigi got destroyed so I switched to Ganon... From then on it's been Ganon all the way!

What do you guys suggest about my movement in the past video? I'm still not used to not having wavedash and the majority of tech from Melee or PM. What do you do to get around projectiles and get in?

Also Ganon ditto HYPE!

 

[verbatim]

WRT getting around projectiles, powershielding is pretty much the only way to get in, but there are a few special examples.

You can hop over Ness's PK Fire with Wizard's Foot while it is in motion but not when it explodes. Wizard's Foot is a good mixup, but it's incredibly easy to punish on block and shouldn't be considered a "approach". If customs are on Wizard Drop Kick works on a much wider range of projectiles, and can catch people more reliably because it comes in at such a weird angle.

To that end you should be very deliberate about your stage choice to get as small of a playing field as possible so getting in is as easy as possible. When I intend to start off with Ganon g1 I always ban FD. If I get a second ban I usually ban Smashville, but that's primarily because Battlefield is Ganon's best stage uncontested, and some people are uncomfortable not playing on the aforementioned trifecta. If you win game 1 as Ganon and have 2 bans Duck Hunt is also horrible. It's been my personal experience that Duck Hunt is the easiest stage in the game to time someone out on, and Ganon's especially vulnerable to getting out spaced.

Beyond that If I can't go to Battlefield I go to Lylat, if I can't go to either I go to Dreamland.

 

[Koskinator]

Hey if any of you were looking for vids of how good jman is, look no further for this is truly his magnum opus
Yall should take notes from jman and perhaps
One day


You can be half of the man he is

Perhaps

 

[jmanup85]

No no no Koskinator

This match is more like how it goes. I dominate you and then I fudge up in the end because I'm an idiot.

 

[Swoops]

Omg please stop, we aren't ready. These wifi Ganon dittos are too raw.

 

[jmanup85]

what if I bribe you with this hamburger?

 

[Koskinator]

^^^^ same trick he uses on his old lady to get some

 

[Swoops]

what if I bribe you with this hamburger?

So I'm pretty sure the hamburger isn't real...

but just in case I'll accept.

 

[Koskinator]

^^^^^same thing his old lady says.....

Swoops are you secretly jmans lover

 

[_Magus_]

You guys are so weird. Oh well, love ya anyway

 

[Deotay]

Game 2 has the oddest way I've ever won a round in tournament.

Also, the tournament sets I had posted about earlier were uploaded to Youtube. Advice on any match-ups from any of these 3 sets is still appreciated since I still struggle with them.

Vs. PikaPika (Pikachu)

Spoiler

Vs. iModerz (Fox)

Spoiler

 

[Marsh D Teach]

Hi fellow warriors of darkness, I decided to finally create an account on here to help put forth information in hopes of developing Ganondorf for competitive play. Here is a match I had against someone in for glory that allowed me to demonstrate what can be done against an opponent that is able to and frequently techs flame choke. By punishing tech's with another flame choke, ganon can condition opponents to eventually not tech and commit to something that leaves them open to a kill, otherwise they risk having their percent constantly racked up to stupid amounts in short windows of time, leading to an inevitable K.O. anyway.


I'm making this post in haste as I prepare to go to my local meetup and use this very tech against a Pacman main that has been frustrating me for weeks with his spot on techs of flame choke, depriving me of mixup potential. I hope this helps someone!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zEpcLAfq4w&app=desktop

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I mean, it only covers one option--the tech in place. They still have tech roll, do nothing, regular get-up, get-up attack, regular roll in and regular roll back. All of which (besides maybe the roll back depending on character) will escape the instant choke.

In the end, I don't think it answers any real problems--it's just another mix-up in the bag of mix-ups.

 

[verbatim]

I mean there is no single answer that covers all possible options for Flame Choke (please patch in untechable Flame Choke so we can actually 60-40 Olimar), but I honestly didn't know that you could Flame Choke characters that tech rolled away.

 

[mgleed]

Put out another montage this week, I hope you enjoy! It'll probably be my last for a while, but my bucket list of Ganon exploits has to be fully completed. I put in a few clips with fellow board members too, although many of the matches had just as much or more styling on me.

 

[Koskinator]

I decided to finally create an account on here to help put forth information in hopes of developing Ganondorf for competitive play. Here is a match I had against someone in for glory

Verm I'm not strong enough