The "Advance Techniques" from Melee. Sensible or Illogical?

[D-idara]

Yeah I dunno about him, but he is willing to learn (?). He made a thread earlier about trying to improve and I sent him some links. Dude needs to work on his attitude though.

No, I'm not willing to change that, I just want to learn how to do things. And Raykz, no, of course I recognize them but why would I change my attitude? What's wrong with my personality and opinions, I just hate losing and can't stand it and there's no way to possibly get over it. I still don't get how these tourneygoers shake hands with the filth that just beat them.

 

[guedes the brawler]

TL:DR: I can't stand losing and never will, so learning from mistakes is a no-no for me. That's why I love single player games, when I make a mistake, I know it was my fault and not the other players who cheated. I don't want to lose to someone "better"...that's why I don't want to start practicing, because no matter how much I practice, there will always be someone that mops the floor with me (Make that someone a couple thousand maybe).

Just to give you an example, I just came back from playing P:M, switched the jump to a button, started falling off ledges because I'm used to tap-jump, inmediate giving up.

then you don't want us to think you are a little kid

 

[D-idara]

then you don't want us to think you are a little kid

It has nothing to do with being a 'little kid' people get frustrated easily when they think like me, I usually focus on what I can't do instead of things I can do, or when I'm one stock down, I usually just give up because there's no way to recover from a -1 Stock if you're not very good, and I'm not, and probably will never be compared to the people that play againist me.

What do you want me to do? There's no way that I'll ever weigh the barely-possible positives againist the completely-certain negatives. I hate losing much more than I like winning, so the payoff isn't worth the effort.

Also, yes, the problem's me, but I'm not going to change my life philosophy and views over a videogame, even Smash, I like my negativity. It shields me from taking risks and then losing.

 

[JediLink]

What do you want me to do?

Stop complaining about everything to do with competitive Smash. That'd be nice. Just saying.

 

[guedes the brawler]

TL:DR: I can't stand losing and never will, so learning from mistakes is a no-no for me. That's why I love single player games, when I make a mistake, I know it was my fault and not the other players who cheated. I don't want to lose to someone "better"...that's why I don't want to start practicing, because no matter how much I practice, there will always be someone that mops the floor with me (Make that someone a couple thousand maybe).

Just to give you an example, I just came back from playing P:M, switched the jump to a button, started falling off ledges because I'm used to tap-jump, inmediate giving up.

then you don't want us to think you are a little kid

It has nothing to do with being a 'little kid' people get frustrated easily when they think like me, I usually focus on what I can't do instead of things I can do, or when I'm one stock down, I usually just give up because there's no way to recover from a -1 Stock if you're not very good, and I'm not, and probably will never be compared to the people that play againist me.

What do you want me to do? There's no way that I'll ever weigh the barely-possible positives againist the completely-certain negatives. I hate losing much more than I like winning, so the payoff isn't worth the effort.

you don't need to be very good to even a stock out. Provided the playground is even between both players, when you are KO'd the other guy probably is at high percentages... considering you are invincible for a short while, you can easily get a KO. Specially if you are playing with a fast character with ONE strong move ... like, Fox and Up-smash (i'm saying that from experience. i still have the boot marks)


If you can't compare to people, i doubt you can compare to CPU. whyy are you even playing smash at any level if the risk of losing is that high?

 

[D-idara]

Stop complaining about everything to do with competitive Smash. That'd be nice. Just saying.

No, because competitive Smash makes me bitter.

I play Smash because I love it, but like with everything I do, it's only fun until I lose. I don't just like winning, I only like winning and that's why I'm not a competitive person, I'm never prepared to lose.

 

[Jaedrik]

No, I'm not willing to change that, I just want to learn how to do things. And Raykz, no, of course I recognize them but why would I change my attitude? What's wrong with my personality and opinions, I just hate losing and can't stand it and there's no way to possibly get over it. I still don't get how these tourneygoers shake hands with the filth that just beat them.

I used to be similar to you. As a child, I raged incredibly hard whenever I lost to a CPU, "I am a human, I'm better than them!" I would shout as I slammed my controller into the ground. Funnily, I was never that way against humans, I just broke into a cold sweat and smiled at them and laughed with them as I got wrecked.
One day, I have no idea when, I began to view my rage with an even stronger disgust, it was a poison that only served to further enhance my despicable state, but I worked and worked to solve it, and then became just as you are, I hated losing in any way to anybody (most especially random people on the internet) or anything (dumb CPUs!), and I stayed like that for many years. I still do have a hint of that nowadays, but I did change.
Nowadays, I am at peace. But how, I wonder? Two things I know for certain, I was prideful, and I changed that attitude through sheer force of will, that's it. If I, bonehead that I was, can change myself over any period of time with a sheer force of will, then you can do it too, I know this for a fact. I know that all humans can do this, for we share the same essential nature as rational agents of will.

First, you've already acknowledge your attitude as a problem, you acknowledge that you are prideful. This (pride) is the most major defect you have, it is far greater than any ability to learn any technical skill in a game. You're already on your way. Second, to begin your journey of change, you have to believe that you can change anyways. Third, you must have the desire the good and hate the bad.
If you have trouble with any of the above, there's a simple way to get around wanting to change. Want to want to change, and if that's not possible, want to want to want to change. With the degrees of detachment it becomes easier and easier to desire and strive for something, and you will eventually work your way up to desiring the actual thing, and then attaining it.
Perhaps by now you've stopped reading, justifying yourself saying that you don't need to change. My point is that you can change, and this pride is a serious, massive defect in your character that needs to change. Pride is the keystone of all other evil in anyones lives, all evil can trace its way back to pride in some way, shape, or form, and it must, above all, be attacked (not necessarily destroyed the first time around, that's just ridiculously hard) before one can work on their other various defects. Any other viewpoint is unjustifiable, and is not in conformity to reality or justice.
You will continue in this miserable, deplorable state until you change yourself, and believe me, you can change yourself as I have. Once you do, you will find a greater peace. Fact.
Now get over yourself and start calling yourself filth instead of others! That seems like a good starting point
I still am filth

 

[D-idara]

I used to be similar to you. As a child, I raged incredibly hard whenever I lost to a CPU, "I am a human, I'm better than them!" I would shout as I slammed my controller into the ground. Funnily, I was never that way against humans, I just broke into a cold sweat and smiled at them and laughed with them as I got wrecked.
One day, I have no idea when, I began to view my rage with an even stronger disgust, it was a poison that only served to further enhance my despicable state, but I worked and worked to solve it, and then became just as you are, I hated losing in any way to anybody (most especially random people on the internet) or anything (dumb CPUs!), and I stayed like that for many years. I still do have a hint of that nowadays, but I did change.
Nowadays, I am at peace. But how, I wonder? Two things I know for certain, I was prideful, and I changed that attitude through sheer force of will, that's it. If I, bonehead that I was, can change myself over any period of time with a sheer force of will, then you can do it too, I know this for a fact. I know that all humans can do this, for we share the same essential nature as rational agents of will.

First, you've already acknowledge your attitude as a problem, you acknowledge that you are prideful. This (pride) is the most major defect you have, it is far greater than any ability to learn any technical skill in a game. You're already on your way. Second, to begin your journey of change, you have to believe that you can change anyways. Third, you must have the desire the good and hate the bad.
If you have trouble with any of the above, there's a simple way to get around wanting to change. Want to want to change, and if that's not possible, want to want to want to change. With the degrees of detachment it becomes easier and easier to desire and strive for something, and you will eventually work your way up to desiring the actual thing, and then attaining it.
Perhaps by now you've stopped reading, justifying yourself saying that you don't need to change. My point is that you can change, and this pride is a serious, massive defect in your character that needs to change. Pride is the keystone of all other evil in anyones lives, all evil can trace its way back to pride in some way, shape, or form, and it must, above all, be attacked (not necessarily destroyed the first time around, that's just ridiculously hard) before one can work on their other various defects.
You will continue in this miserable, deplorable state until you change yourself, and believe me, you can change yourself as I have. Once you do, you will find a greater peace. Fact.
Now get over yourself and start calling yourself filth instead of others! That seems like a good starting point

Why don't other people just change to suit your personality? I will never get over my pride and I hope I never do, it's absolutely ridiculous to congratulate someone for beating you, you should build a grudge againist them and should only be happy if they lose AND lose their temper, because that person beat you, how dare he/she!? You're better off just not playing againist that person again or making 100% that the next time you demolish that person, an even playing ground includes the possibility of losing, and you can't take that chance.

If a person beats you? Avoid people of that level and seek people who are worse at the game, I prefer going around or away from obstacles instead of clearing them, if the obstacle wants to be cleared, I don't have to jump higher, it needs to become shorter.

But really, I'm tired, just woke up and there's basically a bunch of hate mail on Smashboards and people who think they can change me for worse, make me see loss as something with a hint of good, while losing is the epitome of bad, there's nothing worse than losing and you learn nothing from losing.

 

[Reila]

Stop complaining about everything to do with competitive Smash. That'd be nice. Just saying.

Why should he (or anyone else) stop complaining about competitive Smash? It is not even the correct way to play Smash.

 

[Jaedrik]

Why don't other people just change to suit your personality? I will never get over my pride and I hope I never do, it's absolutely ridiculous to congratulate someone for beating you, you should build a grudge againist them and should only be happy if they lose AND lose their temper, because that person beat you, how dare he/she!? You're better off just not playing againist that person again or making 100% that the next time you demolish that person, an even playing ground includes the possibility of losing, and you can't take that chance.

If a person beats you? Avoid people of that level and seek people who are worse at the game, I prefer going around or away from obstacles instead of clearing them, if the obstacle wants to be cleared, I don't have to jump higher, it needs to become shorter.

This perspective is completely unjustified, self-destructive, and wholly evil. I hope you realize that before it's too late.
In the meantime, everyone should recognize that this sort of critique is invalid from a design perspective and must be disregarded if we want to have objectively better games.

 

[D-idara]

This perspective is completely unjustified, self-destructive, and wholly evil. I hope you realize that before it's too late.

No, I don't want obstacles, you can only be truly happy if you win at everything, everytime. If you lose, you're back to square one, there's no such thing as 'learning from your mistakes', I tried to practice and look at things through a positive light, but if winning means that I'll have to lose, then I don't want it, I don't want adversities, I don't want challenges, hell, I don't want a difficulty curve, I want a plain.

Even now, I might agree with what you're saying and agree that I need to change (hypothetically) but I'm never going to give you the reason or a 'yes' because that would mean that I lost, and I don't lose, I don't accept losing.

 

[ChikoLad]

I first I was actually SOMEWHAT thinking that your perspective was the result of some kind of anxiety issue and nothing else.

Now you're just blatantly a try-hard troll.

 

[pitthekit]

Well if you change who you are, you could change your quality of life.

Also I always play people who are better than me, over my losses I (hopefully) get better.
After I can at least be on par with the person I lost to over and over: I can beat anyone below that persons skill level(usually)


Honestly I never listen to emotion just reasoning.

 

[D-idara]

Well if you change who you are, you could change your quality of life.

Also I always play people who are better than me, over my losses I (hopefully) get better.
After I can at least be on par with the person I lost to over and over: I can beat anyone below that persons skill level(usually)


Honestly I never listen to emotion just reasoning.

You forgot the part where you feel your insides burning every single time you lose a match.

I'll practice, and I'll try, but it just pisses me off how some people hold 'losing' so high even though it's clearly a bad thing. And my life quality is fine because I avoid any situations with a chance of 'losing'.

I mean, maybe I'm trolling a little bit at this poing just to keep this going, but I still think it's very hard to accept losing and learning from your mistakes implies admitting your mistakes, something that makes me burn with rage.

 

[pitthekit]

You forgot the part where you feel your insides burning every single time you lose a match.

I personally enjoy losing, getting dominat...

You should not listen to emotions, think with reason.
After you lose, say to yourself. "Did I learn other thing and/or improved myself?"

 

[D-idara]

I personally enjoy losing, getting dominat...

You should not listen to emotions, think with reason.
After you lose, say to yourself. "Did I learn other thing and/or improved myself?"

I'm too busy insulting whoever beat me and calling them a ****ing cheater and a bad player. If you play with 'reasoning' you're pretty much not having fun.

 

[pitthekit]

I'm too busy insulting whoever beat me and calling them a ****ing cheater and a bad player. If you play with 'reasoning' you're pretty much not having fun.

Fun is subjective and relative.

I am starting to think you are a massive troll.

 

[D-idara]

Fun is subjective and relative.

I am starting to think you are a massive troll.

Well, I really do insult everyone that beats me at anything, if that's what you're asking. I just want to end it with this goddamn thread, I'm pretty ****ing tired of people questioning my life choices over a game, and I don't think I'll ever get over losing, losing = bad, winning = good, there's no gray areas here. Period.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm pretty ****ing tired of people questioning my life choices over a game

...Then don't bring them up?

 

[Jaedrik]

No, I don't want obstacles, you can only be truly happy if you win at everything, everytime. If you lose, you're back to square one, there's no such thing as 'learning from your mistakes', I tried to practice and look at things through a positive light, but if winning means that I'll have to lose, then I don't want it, I don't want adversities, I don't want challenges, hell, I don't want a difficulty curve, I want a plain.

Even now, I might agree with what you're saying and agree that I need to change (hypothetically) but I'm never going to give you the reason or a 'yes' because that would mean that I lost, and I don't lose, I don't accept losing.

This notion is easy to entertain, because it does have some element of truth in it.

To say that you must win to be ultimately happy is. . . dubious, but let's say that it's true. Let us also take for granted that other people are in fact happy when they 'lose'. This viewpoint is inconsistent, so either they don't truly believe they lose, or that they don't need to win to be happy. I would prefer the latter, but the former is justified as well in some odd sense. Many other people, especially the ones who earnestly congratulate those who 'defeat' them, view the outcome as ultimately beneficial to themselves. If you want to put this perspective on others, the most logical solution to others being okay with 'losing' in a competitive sense is that they truly believe that they are winning by improving themselves by facing their opponent. This may, or may not be, true that they are improving themselves, but it is highly probable that they are improving themselves by miniscule amounts each time. To them, that's worth it, and I can't see how anyone who views the world in this way can be anything but happy. Further, your basis for justification involves solely the ego, then you must recognize that the ego of others is different, they have different priorities and estimations of worth. Since real justification for anything simply does not exist (how can real justice exist but outside the subject? If not outside, then it is not 'real'), for in this supposed world, all justice is relative to the observer, then the observer has no real authority over interpretation, and one can be said to be as fallacious as another, as all humans are fallacious. . . Disregarding the obvious conflict with the principles of causality and contradiction, this system is workable. (When we pretend that cause and contradiction exist anyways :D)

There is also a second way of looking at things that we will have to take for granted. There are numerous dichotomous way to view the world, and they can be neatly shortened into cheesy lines commonly used in pep talks and corporate culture and whatever, but they're useful distinctions nonetheless. The first of these ways is the way many view it, and it is quite common: Win-Lose. If there's a winner, there must be a loser, no ifs ands or buts.
But there are numerous criticisms we may bring against this. I'll only outline the most profound one here. If winning and losing is observer relative, that is, utterly subjective, then cannot one relegate the terms of losing out of their observation of a given situation? That is, cannot one view it as (oh boy, another cheesy line incoming) a Win-Win? It is readily observed that those sorts of people are much happier in life, and indeed this subjective evaluation is the pure basis for all economic activity. Do not both parties thoroughly believe they are benefiting from the transaction? If one acknowledges that all such valuations are subjective, it is easy to abstract from ones own perspective and see why the other would think they benefit from the deal, and then return to their own perspective, and view how they benefit from the deal.

In a competitive sense, they only see the positive, the probability they are slowly improving or having fun, and the positive, the probability that the other benefited in some way (it can be a concrete estimation or an abstract estimation).
In discussion, the 'debate' culture has driven us to view many discussions with opposing perspectives as having a winner and a loser. Though much better than an argument (where the winner and loser are made blunt, harsh, and obvious), the debate still lacks softness, because a winner and a loser is determined by the general reaction of the spectators, the peanut gallery. I don't like it, as we naturally don't want to accept losing. I hate losing too, believe it or not, most people do, I guess, and in that you're right, D-idara, but only to a point and only by admitting certain points. And I guess I have to admit guilt of making debate to be consistent and unhypocritical.

But, much like the person with win-win, I hope there's a third alternative. Plain old Scholastic discussion. Often, however, people grow weary, and rightly so, it takes a lot of endurance to sit through everything and listen to both sides. It's fallen out of favor in the past few hundred years.

 

[D-idara]

Well, when looking at it from that perspective, maybe it makes a little sense, but let's say, I'm playing againist someone a little higher than my level, I'll probably learn something (Like when playing with my Smash veteran cousin) but if I played againist someone like M2K, for example, I wouldn't learn anything because the level's too high, I mean, it's a game, I need to have fun to keep playing...

Of course I do have fun while playing on an even level because I feel like there's a chance to win. Another downside is that on Venezuela, you either get very rookie players, or hardcore tournament ones...so it's a really hard thing to learn. This is why SSB4's good online makes me hopeful. I mean, right now I'm practicing Wavedashing to at least get my tech skill prepped.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Why should he (or anyone else) stop complaining about competitive Smash? It is not even the correct way to play Smash.

>implying there's a "correct" way to play smash

 

[Dott]

No, because competitive Smash makes me bitter.

I play Smash because I love it, but like with everything I do, it's only fun until I lose. I don't just like winning, I only like winning and that's why I'm not a competitive person, I'm never prepared to lose.

Then that's your problem, no the problem of Smash in general. Some of us love to demostrate how good we are in this game, and how good people can be against us. I know even people who don't know how the competitive style (causals players) is and love to play to win, or just to show their skills and how fast are they. If you don't like it, fine, we understand it, but don't came here to say "competitive style is wrong, everything with it is wrong, THAT'S NOT HOW YOU HAVE TO PLAY SMASH".

 

[Stryker]

Well, when looking at it from that perspective, maybe it makes a little sense, but let's say, I'm playing againist someone a little higher than my level, I'll probably learn something (Like when playing with my Smash veteran cousin) but if I played againist someone like M2K, for example, I wouldn't learn anything because the level's too high, I mean, it's a game, I need to have fun to keep playing...
.

I will pose this question again. Why do you even care about playing against players? Why do you want to get into the competitive scene. Unless you think you are just going to blow through a tournament without a single loss. (Which includes going 2-1 in a set) you are not going to enjoy the scene in the slightest. And as we've gone over, you emotions hinder your play hugely, so I personally don't think you are suited for tournament play until you can get some control over your emotions, because if you did get beaten, you would go home in tears. (EVEN IF you accomplished something great, like making it all the way to Grand Finals. You would be focused on the negative frustration of the loss and not the good you did.)

As was my recommendation before. Just go 1v1 Level 1 bots. The cast is large enough that it shouldn't get too boring, and you should never lose. Is this not the optimal way for you to enjoy smash bros? Instead of getting frustrated over the fact that your personality does not allow you to play competitively.

 

[Renji64]

lol this thread.

 

[pitthekit]

Lol 23 pages in, and the thread gets turned into a self help forum.

 

[Mr.C]

The only people who oppose mechanical tech-skill are filthy casuals. You don't play chess with pigeons; you don't argue competitive merits with dirty peasants. Ignore them, their opinions, and continue being the superior competitive gamer.


Kiss my ring.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Well, when looking at it from that perspective, maybe it makes a little sense, but let's say, I'm playing againist someone a little higher than my level, I'll probably learn something (Like when playing with my Smash veteran cousin) but if I played againist someone like M2K, for example, I wouldn't learn anything because the level's too high, I mean, it's a game, I need to have fun to keep playing...

Of course I do have fun while playing on an even level because I feel like there's a chance to win. Another downside is that on Venezuela, you either get very rookie players, or hardcore tournament ones...so it's a really hard thing to learn. This is why SSB4's good online makes me hopeful. I mean, right now I'm practicing Wavedashing to at least get my tech skill prepped.

Why is everyone bagging on you? I like the way you think as a person who only has fun facing anybody who is willing. I think it would be great to have someone like you 2 face. Alas you may not enjoy it but i know i will. (im not saying ill win. nor will i congratulate you the most you will get from me is "thanks for the fight it was fun." Its a very competitive pokemon mentality.)

 

[Renji64]

Lol 23 pages in, and the thread gets turned into a self help forum.

The only people who oppose mechanical tech-skill are filthy casuals. You don't play chess with pigeons; you don't argue competitive merits with dirty peasants. Ignore them, their opinions, and continue being the superior competitive gamer.


Kiss my ring.

I laughed a little too hard at this lol

 

[D-idara]

From Smashboards thread, to self-help forum, to etilist, self-important asshole magnet, this thread has a lot of forms.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

From Smashboards thread, to self-help forum, to etilist, self-important ******* magnet, this thread has a lot of forms.

Anyone who knew a thing or 2 about smash bros knew this was going to turn into a mess of a forum im just waiting for this thing to be locked because people can't respect other opinion/differences. (it's like 94 percent of written history.)

 

[Jaedrik]

wtf guys cool yer jets dont hit ur atferbunners

 

[Deleted member]

I think this thread made me feel the true meaning of hate.

The only people who oppose mechanical tech-skill are filthy casuals. You don't play chess with pigeons; you don't argue competitive merits with dirty peasants. Ignore them, their opinions, and continue being the superior competitive gamer.


Kiss my ring.

Let me translate quickly:
"Anyone who doesn't play Smash on a competitive level is inferior to me and my opinion is the only thing that matters."
There we go.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I think this thread made me feel the true meaning of hate.


Let me translate quickly:
"Anyone who doesn't play Smash on a competitive level is inferior to me and my opinion is the only thing that matters."
There we go.

HAHA made me laugh. But yeah smash brings the hate out of people the only game i know that dose it worst is Mario party, friends walk in enemies walk out.

 

[J1NG]

I am starting to think you are a massive troll.

And this is where I step in.
You know, a long time ago, I used to browse video game forums and post all the childish things I felt like posting. I was a loudmouth, an ignorant little cuss with no self-awareness or any idea on how to compose my speech(or text, as was the case). I could go on and on, but unfortunately for me, my fellow forum users were probably mid 30-40 year old man-children acting like they were "witty" and "intelligent" teenagers. As such, they saw a young kid like me, and instead of considering the possibility that I was just a child, they bombarded me with troll accusations. Even worse was the fact that they were probably trolls themselves, looking to get emotional reactions out of someone that could only be a child, which they did. It was cruel of them, and I was pretty bitter about the whole experience. It can be impossible to tell(especially on the internet) whether or not someone's words or actions come from a sincere thought or feeling, or whether it's just a clever ruse. But at the risk of being made a fool of by some random person over the internet, I'm going to give D-idara the benefit of the doubt here, as I feel that the only troll bait that they are going to rouse by posting fake personal problems over the internet are the people with troll solutions(kind of like Yahoo Answers), and I have seen none so far, although I did get a laugh out of this:

The only people who oppose mechanical tech-skill are filthy casuals. You don't play chess with pigeons; you don't argue competitive merits with dirty peasants. Ignore them, their opinions, and continue being the superior competitive gamer.


Kiss my ring.

 

[Deleted member]

HAHA made me laugh. But yeah smash brings the hate out of people the only game i know that dose it worst is Mario party, friends walk in enemies walk out.

Relevant.

Let me clarify I'm a fan of competitive Smash on both the spectating and play fronts, but I just don't like people who develop a false sense of superiority over a video game.

He might just be a troll though, I'm not really sure.

 

[fabulouspants]

if you think melee takes "TECH SKILL"(lol go to training mode for literally 5 minutes to learn to L cancel properly) then you're fat and most likely ugly.

 

[Renji64]

if you think melee takes "TECH SKILL"(lol go to training mode for literally 5 minutes to learn to L cancel properly) then you're fat and most likely ugly.

Well brawl is so easy you don't even have to practice.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Relevant.

Let me clarify I'm a fan of competitive Smash on both the spectating and play fronts, but I just don't like people who develop a false sense of superiority over a video game.

He might just be a troll though, I'm not really sure.

lol no need im competitive my self.

 

[Eight Melodies]

This thread sucks