The "Advance Techniques" from Melee. Sensible or Illogical?

[Johnknight1]

LOL beating other people is the entire allure of competitive gaming. It's why I enjoy online FPS and Smash so much more than single player campaigns (in most cases).

Constantly playing against computers gets repetitive and boring, but when you're playing against other humans no 2 matches are ever the same.

I've played over 15,000 matches with my brother in Smash 64, Melee, Brawl, and Project M, and none of them have ever been the same, and we are constantly evolving at all of those games together (except Brawl because we don't play it vanilla, lol!).

If they aren't complaining about Melee's technical barriers then they're complaining about Metaknight in Brawl... Wonder what it'll be for Smash 4? lol

Or all about the Brawl chain grabbing issues, FREAKING RANDOM TRIPPING, or just a lot of the top tiers being boring (looking at you Ice Climbers).

 

[(G-S.N) Chicago Ben]

Dunno, I got pretty close.
Seriously though, doesn't everybody else argue their point until the end of time? It's pretty much human nature.

Thats mostly politics

 

[(G-S.N) Chicago Ben]

@ Johnknight1 it hasn't been that many has it?

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Johnknight1 it hasn't been that many has it?

Between all 3 games (including mods) it most definitely has.

90% of both of our matches (at the least) on our memory of each game is against each other, and in Smash 64 and Melee we've had over 10,000 matches, and in Brawl over 6,000 matches.

We both contributed to about 75%-80% of that, so it all adds up.

 

[The Real Gamer]

can we all vote to permaban SmashChu forever

He's the only person I've ever had to put on my ignore list.

I suggest everyone else to do the same. :3

On a side note I wish my brother played Smash instead of LoL. >.>

 

[josh bones]

I won't ever ignore smashchu, just try to avoid arguing with him, I'd rather argue with a brick wall.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

On a side note I wish my brother played Smash instead of LoL. >.>

I'm in the same boat, except my brother plays WoW.

Also LoL is butt. Dota 2 is where it's at.

 

[D-idara]

I'm in the same boat, except my brother plays WoW.

Also LoL is butt. Dota 2 is where it's at.

Dota 2 is way too complex for its own good.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

You would say that D-idara, lol

 

[Jaedrik]

Dota 2 is way too complex for its own good.

What is "its own good"? Also, why you ignore me?

 

[D-idara]

What is "its own good"? Also, why you ignore me?

It's too hard to get into...and am I ignoring you?
Also, Neon, stfu.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

It's too hard to get into...and am I ignoring you?
Also, Neon, stfu.

1. You're not lying, Dota is very hard to get into (the community doesn't help). The game is so deep that it's worth it.

2.

 

[pitthekit]

Is there a hazing ritual for me to get into hardcore dota 2 community's?

 

[SKM_NeoN]

Pretty much every game in Dota 2 is a hazing ritual

 

[Jaedrik]

It's too hard to get into...and am I ignoring you?
Also, Neon, stfu.

I'm accusing you of not reading my response to your response to my long post a few pages back.
Also, don't make a claim unless you want to get into something! You can't just say 'it's too difficult to explain' and expect that to convince us! Unless, of course, you're not trying to convince us, then do whatever

 

[pitthekit]

We need another angusty teen to start an argument that is related to tech skill.

 

[LancerStaff]

We need another angusty teen to start an argument that is related to tech skill.

...

 

[Empyrean]

He's the only person I've ever had to put on my ignore list.

I suggest everyone else to do the same. :3

On a side note I wish my brother played Smash instead of LoL. >.>

I'm in a similar situation. However, it's my friends who are all over LoL, and also FIFA, and it's my bro who used to play DotA 2, until very recently (I also gave the game a shot, but shortly after I realized that I wasn't able to dedicate myself to both Smash and DotA, so back to Smash I go. As a side note, LoL is absolute **** when compared to DotA 2). Thankfully, him seeing me play Sheik might have resparked his interest as of late.

 

[Anomilus]

I don't know if this has already been suggested as idea or not, and I don't know what you guys are talking about the moment.

I just felt like putting this out here: An idea for solving the alternative wavedash input issue...


New Wavedash input: Quarter-Circle Down or Reverse Quarter-Circle Down.

Basically the QCF motion in reverse. Forward, Diagonal, Down.

The mechanics: Perform the motion during Dash start-up. The faster the better. You dash, then quickly bring the control stick to down. The key however is to quickly return to neutral. The mechanics involved would be that dash start-up would also create an initial amount of momentum. This momentum quickly dissipates as the player begins to run. If the player should immediately make their character crouch by quickly holding Down, the character exits the Dash, crouches, and the momentum generated from the Dash quickly dissipates into a minor slide. However, should the player immediately return the control stick from Down to Neutral, the generated momentum will dissipate more slowly, resulting in a notable slide across the ground. Finally, should the player initiate another Dash, a new set of momentum is generated. Momentum from a previous dash will not carry over.

I can't say this is even slightly intuitive without actual testing, but it could make more sense than Air Dodge based wavedashing. This method can be repeated rapidly in either direction. While wavedashing directly into platforms would be gone, wavedashing off platforms would still exist.

 

[JediLink]

I don't know if this has already been suggested as idea or not, and I don't know what you guys are talking about the moment.

I just felt like putting this out here: An idea for solving the alternative wavedash input issue...


New Wavedash input: Quarter-Circle Down or Reverse Quarter-Circle Down.

Basically the QCF motion in reverse. Forward, Diagonal, Down.

The mechanics: Perform the motion during Dash start-up. The faster the better. You dash, then quickly bring the control stick to down. The key however is to quickly return to neutral. The mechanics involved would be that dash start-up would also create an initial amount of momentum. This momentum quickly dissipates as the player begins to run. If the player should immediately make their character crouch by quickly holding Down, the character exits the Dash, crouches, and the momentum generated from the Dash quickly dissipates into a minor slide. However, should the player immediately return the control stick from Down to Neutral, the generated momentum will dissipate more slowly, resulting in a notable slide across the ground. Finally, should the player initiate another Dash, a new set of momentum is generated. Momentum from a previous dash will not carry over.

I can't say this is even slightly intuitive without actual testing, but it could make more sense than Air Dodge based wavedashing. This method can be repeated rapidly in either direction. While wavedashing directly into platforms would be gone, wavedashing off platforms would still exist.

I see a couple of problems with this.

• No jump cancels, so stuff like waveshines becomes impossible.
• You wouldn't be able to do it backwards without turning around.
• A reverse QCF actually sounds more difficult to do consistently than the current input.

Really, the only way I see wavedashing being re-implemented is if there's a dedicated button called "quick dodge".

 

[(G-S.N) Chicago Ben]

He's the only person I've ever had to put on my ignore list.

I suggest everyone else to do the same. :3

On a side note I wish my brother played Smash instead of LoL. >.>

Try playing with the same guy for 15 years in smash and have him rubbing your face literally when you lose and say that again.
He was beating me before I could count to 20

 

[(G-S.N) Chicago Ben]

I see a couple of problems with this.

• No jump cancels, so stuff like waveshines becomes impossible.
• You wouldn't be able to do it backwards without turning around.
• A reverse QCF actually sounds more difficult to do consistently than the current input.

Really, the only way I see wavedashing being re-implemented is if there's a dedicated button called "quick dodge".

Or be like Marvel with Sentinel and have it be two attacks at once, although that could be complicated too....

 

[JediLink]

Or be like Marvel with Sentinel and have it be two attacks at once, although that could be complicated too....

Might work... if you were using an arcade stick. On a controller you'd have to macro the input anyway (probably to a shoulder button), so making it its own button would make more sense.

 

[Anomilus]

I see a couple of problems with this.

• No jump cancels, so stuff like waveshines becomes impossible.

YESSSS....

I mean... True... >_>

 

[Empyrean]

Waveshine might the hardest technique to perform in any Smash game to date. Seeing people pull it off is one of the hypest things to see.

 

[Anomilus]

Waveshine might the hardest technique to perform in any Smash game to date. Seeing people pull it off is one of the hypest things to see.

See, and I have to say I find this rather concerning.

Yeah Waveshining can be hype. It's also extremely difficult, not intuitive at all, and is particular to only one character. Is it good then to become so attached to such techniques that we prefer off-putting tech to more adaptable, approachable alternatives? Even perhaps tech that at least still provides some additional options?

Yeah, my initial idea would not allow jump-canceled wavedashing techniques and the ability to move back while still facing the opponent. But it would still provide extra options. Better than outright eliminating stuff like with Brawl. It's tough as both adding options and maintaining accessibility need to be addressed.

BTW, my "reverse QCD" idea is no harder than a normal QCD. I should have nipped that in the bud sooner. In number notation it's just 632 and 412. Saying that's even harder is like saying it's very difficult to do a fireball only while facing left.

Another thing is that technically my idea would still allow for similar levels of spacing attacks. Yes the character would initially be turned around with my input suggestion. But F-Smashes done with the C-Stick would turn the character around anyway. Side-B moves would vary depending on the character but otherwise wouldn't change too much Side tilts could still be done but just a bit slower by tilting after the WD motion. Again, it's a suggestion that, while not as optimizing as the current WD input, is still something that adds options.


Now having said all of that, I actually came up with another idea that's even better than my first suggestion. But at this point I'd be better off posting in that "New mechanics ideas" thread or whatever it was called (I think there was one). If I brought it up here it would be too off-topic.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Honestly, I think adding some complexity at least is good (or in this case, keeping some in, whether modified or not); what do they want? The game to only have the core mechanics so they don't have to learn them? That's not very logical. Making things such-as wavedashing and L-Canceling officially known mechanics/official in their own right (much like say, combo's in fighting games being put in the manual) and maybe making them flow smoother with the game? Now that's maybe something I can get behind.

 

[pitthekit]

Wave shining is one of the most difficult techniques in melee? BRO

Samus Aran super wavedash says hello.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

See, and I have to say I find this rather concerning.

Yeah Waveshining can be hype. It's also extremely difficult, not intuitive at all, and is particular to only one character. Is it good then to become so attached to such techniques that we prefer off-putting tech to more adaptable, approachable alternatives? Even perhaps tech that at least still provides some additional options?

Yeah, my initial idea would not allow jump-canceled wavedashing techniques and the ability to move back while still facing the opponent. But it would still provide extra options. Better than outright eliminating stuff like with Brawl. It's tough as both adding options and maintaining accessibility need to be addressed.

BTW, my "reverse QCD" idea is no harder than a normal QCD. I should have nipped that in the bud sooner. In number notation it's just 632 and 412. Saying that's even harder is like saying it's very difficult to do a fireball only while facing left.

Another thing is that technically my idea would still allow for similar levels of spacing attacks. Yes the character would initially be turned around with my input suggestion. But F-Smashes done with the C-Stick would turn the character around anyway. Side-B moves would vary depending on the character but otherwise wouldn't change too much Side tilts could still be done but just a bit slower by tilting after the WD motion. Again, it's a suggestion that, while not as optimizing as the current WD input, is still something that adds options.


Now having said all of that, I actually came up with another idea that's even better than my first suggestion. But at this point I'd be better off posting in that "New mechanics ideas" thread or whatever it was called (I think there was one). If I brought it up here it would be too off-topic.

You mean 2 characters can do it.

Waveshining is actually very intuitive. You can do things like cross up aerial to waveshine jab mix up, waveshine with Falco to follow DI and combo, Waveshine with Fox to jab reset to thunders combo, waveshine combos with Fox and Falco, Waveshine to wave land aerial on platform, double shine waveshine. You can do anything you can imagine. You need to play more spacies, bro.

 

[D-idara]

Honestly, I think adding some complexity at least is good (or in this case, keeping some in, whether modified or not); what do they want? The game to only have the core mechanics so they don't have to learn them? That's not very logical. Making things such-as wavedashing and L-Canceling officially known mechanics/official in their own right (much like say, combo's in fighting games being put in the manual) and maybe making them flow smoother with the game? Now that's maybe something I can get behind.

The game should only have the core mechanics :I

 

[Thirdkoopa]

The game should only have the core mechanics :I

sarcasm post right

 

[SmashChu]

can we all vote to permaban SmashChu forever

I like how the internet gives you so much information and there are people who still want to block it out. People like him don't want me here because I'm making counter points. Gasp. Ban him lest we here a different opinion.

Brawl GF's at apex 2014 had less viewers on stream than both melee and P:M and nearly less than ssb64's btw to crush that part of your argument.

You don't think a casually gamer couldn't like and enjoy melee just because there is a competitive side to it? Most of us started playing that game as casuals if you have forgotten. You think you cant have fun playing competitively?My first tournament I went to (Rule 6) we had a giant melee battle on Brinstar and laughed our ***** off doing so. Also you think 11 million people are still fans of the game? Jesus I know dozens of people that picked up the game for a week then dropped it forever even after the game was made "less technical" for them. Besides, who the hell thought Brawl was overall more exciting than Melee? People love crazy combos not planking and spamming projectiles (R.O.B). Why the hell should we give up Melee if we still find it fun and exciting? You should play this game because its fun TO YOU not because of the games age or difficultly and that's why most of us stick with Melee. We like it and its that simple.
No tech skill at all? Whats wrong with you. Think about that one Chu.

First, let consider levels and trends. Level is nice but it can mean very little without trend. And that trend is one of declining attendance. Apex 2014 was behind for both Melee (compared to EVO) and Brawl (compared to EVO last year). Melee numbers are high, but how long will it last? One of the problems the community hasn't considered is that Melee is 12 years old. People who were 10 when Melee came out are 22. The people who were 15 when it came out are now 27. Looking at some of the profiles for top Melee players, they are in their early to mid 20s. Many of these people are very young, but wont be young for long. It's also interesting to note that some of the top players joined in 2007. So what's the point. There are two problems. The first is this "Melee revival" came from a $95,000 injection in a contest for EVO. Besides being expensive, it is unlikely that something like this will happen again, We've noticed that there is a declining trend in attendance, and people are getting older. Will Mango be willing to donate money when he is 28, trying to save, advance his career and provide for his new born son/daughter? Probably not. And that is the issue that the community is running up against. The second issue, of course, would be age. As I noted, a lot of the top players joined in 2007, so they are second wave players. A lot of these people probably owned a Gamecube or played Melee on the Wii. Now, consider the people who are joining now. They are joining in 2013. The Wii U us not backwards compatible, the new Wiis can't play Gamecube games, Gamecube controller are hard to find (least you order them from Japan), and a copy of the game is just as hard to find. What these new people are going to play is SSB WiiU/3DS. And that is the third issue. The community is going to shift to WiiU/3DS. Even if they enjoy Melee, everyone is going to want to try the new game. Competition is going to be hot for this game early one. M2K says he wants to be the best at it. The problem is the iron is hot for Melee now, but if it cools, it may be gone for good. Melee attendence at Apex was behind Brawl until recently. And again, the new community will be the WiiU/3DS players. These people either started on Brawl or WiiU/3DS and probably know little about Melee or have little interest in learning a 12 year old game. And again, let's look at the sales numbers. Despite high attendance at EVO, it only ammounted to 700 players which is a messily one hundredth of one percent of Melee's sales. If the community is going to grow, it needs to do something better. For comparison's sake, while it was the largest Smash tournament, it was drawfed by Street Fighter 4 (1,601) and Marvel 3 (1,297). It only barely beat SFxT (545) which is a garbage game. While the EVO numbers seem nice, we are seeing a declining trend, factors that will make it worse, an issue of the community's future, and the fact that despite stellar sales for the series, the game can not compete on tournament attendance.

On Brawl, it seems you need a fact check. Brawl has clocked over 100 million hours and has an average of 73 hours played per person. So it's clear that the lack of "crazy combos" were not an issue. In the same vein, there was a lot of opposition to wavedashing. Basically, the game will prosper without the competitive aspect.

To end, why make such an issue of the community and Melee. Well, first, it's kind of the community not moving on. There was a great post on another board but I'm having trouble finding it. Anyway, the issue is that other communities never had a problem moving on because they were fans of the series and were willing to try out the new game. Brawl, on the other hand, wasn't Melee so the community didn't want to give it the time of day. The other thing is the continued viability of the scene. I explained before that the series is running into a brick wall, and if not solved, the community will die (though the series will live on). These next few months will be the most important.

 

[Anomilus]

You mean 2 characters can do it.

I meant exactly what I said. Particular to one character. Yes Falco can waveshine, but who's the first character to come to mind when "Waveshine" is even said? "That ain't Falco!"

Waveshining is actually very intuitive. You can do things like cross up aerial to waveshine jab mix up, waveshine with Falco to follow DI and combo, Waveshine with Fox to jab reset to thunders combo, waveshine combos with Fox and Falco, Waveshine to wave land aerial on platform, double shine waveshine. You can do anything you can imagine. You need to play more spacies, bro.

What you described is examples that prove that Waveshining is very versatile.

Waveshining is not intuitive. Its input is not easily perceived by the average player. The average player will not gain quick or even moderate insight on it execution upon seeing or attempting to perform it. It lacks a practical sense.

Think of it this way: What does it even require in order to wavedash? I don't mean physically. I'm referring to the initial functions of the buttons involved: The shield button, the jump button, and the lower diagonal control stick inputs. Out of these three, only one makes some sense in relation to the desired and intended result of these inputs. The other two? One is supposed to put up a shield or allow for rolling. The other is supposed to remove the character from the ground.

So basically, in order to cause the fighter to perform this strange momentum-based slide across the ground, they're supposed to use an off-ground related input and a purely defensive input??? And all of this in the spam of what... 5 or so frames??

That's not intuitive at all. In fact it's almost counterintuitive! And that is a problem. See, while I'm not as familiar with wavedashing in a game like Tekken, I am familiar with wavedashing in Marvel vs. Capcom 3. While not exactly ideal, there is some practical sense to it. You double-tap a direction to dash, then you crouch to stop the dash, and apparently you can repeat this over again, and you're wavedashing! You also have the option of dashing with the press of a button. That's only 2 buttons in quick succession, 3 if going backwards. Notice that none of the inputs are primarily related to completely different actions. Yes dashing in MvC3 technically requires pressing two attack buttons, but it's still a basic input feature. Which fortunately can be macroed to a single button And if somebody can grasp dashing, they've pretty much grasped wavedashing (plink-dashing on the other hand... >_>).

I think by now you get what I mean. Intuitive controls is some parts physical, some parts visual, and some parts psychological. Even if an action required just pressing one button, its intuitiveness would be completely decided by what the action is. If a game had players move right by holding the Left button, that right there would be counterintuitive. Making sure inputs make as much sense in relation to the actions count!

 

[D-idara]

sarcasm post right

If wavedash is made into an intuitive, easily-done core mechanic, keep it. If it's still a fanmade piece of glitchy bull****, axe it.

 

[Empyrean]

Wave shining is one of the most difficult techniques in melee? BRO

Samus Aran super wavedash says hello.

You see, I've been drowning in PM for 6 months now, so I forgot about the extremely little execution window the SWD had in Melee. You have twice as much time to do it in PM. And plus, SWD is just a matter of learning the timing, whereas the waveshine requires you to perform a very difficult back-and-forth movement. I do agree with Anomilus, it is a highly non-intuitive tech relative to other ATs, at least for me. Waveshine once? ok. Twice?...uh, sure, I'll try...Waveshine all the way across FD? I think I'll just main someone else, thank you. It really takes a lot of effort to master waveshining, but don't get me wrong, I'm not against it by any means. Even for Melee vets, waveshine is no walk in the park. If such a technique becomes a pivotal part of a character's meta (which it hasn't as of now) , I would see why people would be afraid of maining x character. I don't even know what I'm rambling about now, like seriously...

And please stop with the glitch/unintentional mechanic bull****. Wavedashing makes as much sense as using a directional airdodge into the ground in a game where horizontal momentum is preserved. You have the right to hate it and not want its return. But how in the world is it "fanmade" if the game engine allows it and the devs were aware of its existence? You're making it sound like it's a hack or something that fans made up or something out of thin air.

 

[mimgrim]

Think of it this way: What does it even require in order to wavedash? I don't mean physically. I'm referring to the initial functions of the buttons involved: The shield button, the jump button, and the lower diagonal control stick inputs. Out of these three, only one makes some sense in relation to the desired and intended result of these inputs. The other two? One is supposed to put up a shield or allow for rolling. The other is supposed to remove the character from the ground.

So basically, in order to cause the fighter to perform this strange momentum-based slide across the ground, they're supposed to use an off-ground related input and a purely defensive input??? And all of this in the spam of what... 5 or so frames??

That's not intuitive at all. In fact it's almost counterintuitive! And that is a problem.

I think you looking at it from a wrong angle, to an extent. After jumping, you are in the air, while in the air that shield button is instead a dodge button. A dodge that allows you to move 8 directions. Like I have said before in this thread, the jump is gaining you the momentum and the airdodging diagonally into the ground is you making use of the momentum. It makes a bit of sense when thought of that way, at least to me.

But of course there are other ways it can be implemented without a Melee airdodge, the Brawl demo at E3 is proof of that. IIRC it was still done from the air but instead of being a dodge it was done through an attack, but after it was discovered it was taken out. :/

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I meant exactly what I said. Particular to one character. Yes Falco can waveshine, but who's the first character to come to mind when "Waveshine" is even said? "That ain't Falco!"



What you described is examples that prove that Waveshining is very versatile.

Waveshining is not intuitive. Its input is not easily perceived by the average player. The average player will not gain quick or even moderate insight on it execution upon seeing or attempting to perform it. It lacks a practical sense.

Think of it this way: What does it even require in order to wavedash? I don't mean physically. I'm referring to the initial functions of the buttons involved: The shield button, the jump button, and the lower diagonal control stick inputs. Out of these three, only one makes some sense in relation to the desired and intended result of these inputs. The other two? One is supposed to put up a shield or allow for rolling. The other is supposed to remove the character from the ground.

So basically, in order to cause the fighter to perform this strange momentum-based slide across the ground, they're supposed to use an off-ground related input and a purely defensive input??? And all of this in the spam of what... 5 or so frames??

That's not intuitive at all. In fact it's almost counterintuitive! And that is a problem. See, while I'm not as familiar with wavedashing in a game like Tekken, I am familiar with wavedashing in Marvel vs. Capcom 3. While not exactly ideal, there is some practical sense to it. You double-tap a direction to dash, then you crouch to stop the dash, and apparently you can repeat this over again, and you're wavedashing! You also have the option of dashing with the press of a button. That's only 2 buttons in quick succession, 3 if going backwards. Notice that none of the inputs are primarily related to completely different actions. Yes dashing in MvC3 technically requires pressing two attack buttons, but it's still a basic input feature. Which fortunately can be macroed to a single button And if somebody can grasp dashing, they've pretty much grasped wavedashing (plink-dashing on the other hand... >_>).

I think by now you get what I mean. Intuitive controls is some parts physical, some parts visual, and some parts psychological. Even if an action required just pressing one button, its intuitiveness would be completely decided by what the action is. If a game had players move right by holding the Left button, that right there would be counterintuitive. Making sure inputs make as much sense in relation to the actions count!

Lol ok.

I am an average player, and it made sense to me, as I learned it by watching other players do it.

Your basis for saying it's not intuitive is if the player takes the game at face value and believes that everything is cut and dry; well--it isn't. In street fighter an attack shouldn't be able to allow you to Kara Cancel, but it does, doesn't mean it isn't intuitive, it just means you are focusing too much on logistics. Can the attack move you forward? Can you cancel it? If both answers are yes then it makes sense. Actually, understanding the games mechanics enough to create something new through a loophole is the very definition of intuitive in this scenario.

It's also a bit hypocritical that you acknowledge the sense in Marvel vs Capcom 3's wave dashing and says Melee doesn't make any sense. In Marvel vs Capcom 3 you don't wavedash by double tapping forwards and down--you do it by pressing 2 attack buttons simultaneously and crouching, then repeatedly doing so. Now, you're telling me it's perfectly reasonable to press 2 attack buttons simultaneously to cause you to do a wavedash (A mechanic intentionally brought in from MvC2 to MvC3), but using the jump and shield button is not intuitive? Right...And Bold canceling with Dante being able to jump by pressing an attack button and a launch button that is also cancel able is also un intuitive on the same token since the events occurring are some sort ofinconceivable anomaly.

All of the greatest fighting games have quirks to them that people happen to find later on. Not everything has to make sense, just take the time to dig deeper and don't discredit something because it doesn't make sense to you.

And also, stop using the word "intuitive" incorrectly. You guys are just trending with the word because you don't have a solid argument so you are continually meat-riding each other. It's not a good look.

 

[LancerStaff]

Just thinking out load here, but the simpleist way to give people more options while moving is to let you perform moves out of dashes. We can already dash-Usmash, why not expand on it? There's really no need to go beyond the three button system that's been established for three games and no need to implement casual-unfriendly actions like quarter-circles.

 

[pitthekit]

Just thinking out load here, but the simpleist way to give people more options while moving is to let you perform moves out of dashes. We can already dash-Usmash, why not expand on it? There's really no need to go beyond the three button system that's been established for three games and no need to implement casual-unfriendly actions like quarter-circles.

If you expand too much on it then walking would be obsolete.

Who cares walking is only good for microspacing and doing retreating tilts (or you could wavedash)

 

[LancerStaff]

If you expand too much on it then walking would be obsolete.

Who cares walking is only good for microspacing and doing retreating tilts (or you could wavedash)

Wavedashing replaced all ground based movement for short distances. The DACUS replaced regular dash-Usmashes. L-canceling replaced just falling to the ground.