The "Advance Techniques" from Melee. Sensible or Illogical?

[josh bones]

Brawl, on the other hand, wasn't Melee so the community didn't want to give it the time of day.

Do you honestly think that? People hated brawl because of tripping, and the game being dumbed down for people who'll drop the game in a week.

 

[pitthekit]

Wavedashing replaced all ground based movement for short distances. The DACUS replaced regular dash-Usmashes. L-canceling replaced just falling to the ground.

Well dasb( dash attack cancel grab) beats running grab. It even makes a retreating pivot grab witch punishes rolling.

Some characters have bad dacus and running and usmashing is better.

 

[Anomilus]

Lol ok.

I am an average player, and it made sense to me, as I learned it by watching other players do it.

Okay, then you're an exception. Meanwhile I hear far more people say they can't do it or have a hard time doing it. I'm not wrong to claim an average here. Not to mention my and your definition of "average player" may vary.

Your basis for saying it's not intuitive is if the player takes the game at face value and believes that everything is cut and dry; well--it isn't. In street fighter an attack shouldn't be able to allow you to Kara Cancel, but it does, doesn't mean it isn't intuitive, it just means you are focusing too much on logistics. Can the attack move you forward? Can you cancel it? If both answers are yes then it makes sense. Actually, understanding the games mechanics enough to create something new through a loophole is the very definition of intuitive in this scenario.

You say I'm too focused on logistics, and I can say you're focused too much on the technique itself. I'm speaking from a perspective of general accessibility. There are plenty of things in an input-intensive game like Street Fighter that I would find somewhat intuitive, contrary to what I'm saying about Wavedashing. But then I'd be speaking more for myself or for people more around my range of ability.

But the topic here is why "people" disagree with tech skill. I have to assume a particular player average here. One that may not involve everyone that posts here.

It's also a bit hypocritical that you acknowledge the sense in Marvel vs Capcom 3's wave dashing and says Melee doesn't make any sense. In Marvel vs Capcom 3 you don't wavedash by double tapping forwards and down--you do it by pressing 2 attack buttons simultaneously and crouching, then repeatedly doing so.

You're right, I got the optimal input method wrong. It's been a good while since I've played.

Now, you're telling me it's perfectly reasonable to press 2 attack buttons simultaneously to cause you to do a wavedash (A mechanic intentionally brought in from MvC2 to MvC3), but using the jump and shield button is not intuitive? Right...And Bold canceling with Dante being able to jump by pressing an attack button and a launch button that is also cancel able is also un intuitive on the same token since the events occurring are some sort ofinconceivable anomaly.

It's as I said: Pressing 2 attack buttons to dash is a basic feature the player learns. Dash. Not wavedash. True it has to be taught that dashing can be done this way. After that hurdle however a simple press of Down completes the motion. As I said, I don't consider it ideal, but the actions lead into each other in a way that's not difficult to perform (even less so with a macro) and is visually clear.

On the contrary, Wavedashing in Melee isn't exactly easy to perform (yes some people pick it up quickly). The visual result when done right practically masks the jump and air dodge. Those functions aren't overridden like with MvC3 dashing. You claim Bold Canceling must be some kind of inconceivable anomaly. Yes BC is a bit of an odd move (partly 'cause its use isn't exactly made clear), but again the move overrides the basic function of the two buttons. Not so in Melee.

All of the greatest fighting games have quirks to them that people happen to find later on. Not everything has to make sense, just take the time to dig deeper and don't discredit something because it doesn't make sense to you.

Not not everything has to make sense. Of course quirks ought to be further examined, practiced, understood, and the whole nine yards. But part of this whole discussion comes down to an accessibility issue. Particularly for this kind of game that desires to attract a wide audience and not create huge gaps among them. So for that reason things like wavedashing ought to be questioned. Especially when its existence generates so much controversy.

And also, stop using the word "intuitive" incorrectly. You guys are just trending with the word because you don't have a solid argument so you are continually meat-riding each other. It's not a good look.

...And now you're crossing into condescending jerk territory.

I don't know who you've been talking to that have been using "intuitive". I've not followed this topic for long at all, I've not read most of the stuff in between, and I only initially stepped in to throw out an input idea. So lumping me with some group I'm completely unaware of and insulting my personal views and knowledge is NOT something I'm willing to tolerate. ESPECIALLY not this site.

If you're going to challenge somebody's use of a word, at least have the decency to correct them before resorting to derogatory comments. IF they're actually wrong. Which I am not. Intuitive game design is not some blanket term or internet gamer catchphrase I'm whipping around. It's something I've read about and have meditated on for quite some time regarding my own pursuits. And if you think I'm applying it incorrectly, it's quite possible you just don't understand where I'm coming from with my argument.

See, I was looking forward to some discussion, whether or not my views were accurate. But if it's gonna have that familiar stench of GameFAQs-style debating, I'm not even gonna bother.

 

[LancerStaff]

Well dasb( dash attack cancel grab) beats running grab. It even makes a retreating pivot grab witch punishes rolling.

Some characters have bad dacus and running and usmashing is better.

What makes you think I didn't know everybody can't DACUS effectively or at all? It's just an example.

 

[Anomilus]

Edit - Darn it Smashboards...

 

[josh bones]

"I'm right you're all wrong"
Everyone on this threads.

 

[pitthekit]

What makes you think I didn't know everybody can't DACUS effectively or at all? It's just an example.

I am sorry I misunderstood you. I didn't want to make assumptions but it seems I already did.

You're smarter than me.

 

[Anomilus]

I think you looking at it from a wrong angle, to an extent. After jumping, you are in the air, while in the air that shield button is instead a dodge button. A dodge that allows you to move 8 directions. Like I have said before in this thread, the jump is gaining you the momentum and the airdodging diagonally into the ground is you making use of the momentum. It makes a bit of sense when thought of that way, at least to me.

But of course there are other ways it can be implemented without a Melee airdodge, the Brawl demo at E3 is proof of that. IIRC it was still done from the air but instead of being a dodge it was done through an attack, but after it was discovered it was taken out. :/

True true, the "shield button", once in the air, is technically a dodge button with its own set of options. Indeed, alternative perspectives is very useful for this discussion. As far as I'm concerned, an issue with it is that, while the process is sensible when stated, the actual execution is exceptionally quick and can be difficult to discern. Not for everybody of course.

 

[mimgrim]

Just thinking out load here, but the simpleist way to give people more options while moving is to let you perform moves out of dashes. We can already dash-Usmash, why not expand on it? There's really no need to go beyond the three button system that's been established for three games and no need to implement casual-unfriendly actions like quarter-circles.

Melee had that with Crouch Canceling. And it still had Wave Dash. Wave Dash has a different way of being use.

Wavedashing replaced all ground based movement for short distances. The DACUS replaced regular dash-Usmashes. L-canceling replaced just falling to the ground.

No it didn't. No it didn't. Yes it did.

There are times when you want to Dash Dance instead, it in no way replaced all ground based movement and you saying that just shows how ignorant you are. There are times when you don't want to DACUS and instead do the regular one, and again just saying that about Dacus replaced all that is just ignorance towards the competitive scene on your part.

Do you even keep up with competitive play? >_>

 

[LancerStaff]

Melee had that with Crouch Canceling. And it still had Wave Dash. Wave Dash has a different way of being use.



No it didn't. No it didn't. Yes it did.

There are times when you want to Dash Dance instead, it in no way replaced all ground based movement and you saying that just shows how ignorant you are. There are times when you don't want to DACUS and instead do the regular one, and again just saying that about Dacus replaced all that is just ignorance towards the competitive scene on your part.

Do you even keep up with competitive play? >_>

Er, I worded things wrong. Again.
I ment that they mostly replaced the actions. Just like how being able to do most anything out of a dash wouldn't make walking 100% obsolete.

 

[mimgrim]

Er, I worded things wrong. Again.
I ment that they mostly replaced the actions. Just like how being able to do most anything out of a dash wouldn't make walking 100% obsolete.

They still don't mostly replace those actions. >_>

 

[LancerStaff]

They still don't mostly replace those actions. >_>

You know what I mean. I've already explained I really only understand Melee's techs but can't really do them and I have zero experience in hardcore play. To add to it, I've really only watched high level play of Pit because I'm trying to get better at him.

 

[mimgrim]

You know what I mean. I've already explained I really only understand Melee's techs but can't really do them and I have zero experience in hardcore play. To add to it, I've really only watched high level play of Pit because I'm trying to get better at him.

Then can you at least stop making uninformed statements on what techs do what they replace? As you can't really understand the uses of techs and whatnot until you understand competitive play, and that means getting involved in competitive play.

 

[LancerStaff]

Then can you at least stop making uninformed statements on what techs do what they replace? As you can't really understand the uses of techs and whatnot until you understand competitive play, and that means getting involved in competitive play.

I understand it well enough. Besides, I can't ask others to argue my point for me.

The initial use for dash Usmashing was to slide as far as you can and smash. With the DACUS around, you now use the original DUS to slide a smaller distance. That is what I ment by replaced.

 

[mimgrim]

I understand it well enough. Besides, I can't ask others to argue my point for me.

The initial use for dash Usmashing was to slide as far as you can and smash. With the DACUS around, you now use the original DUS to slide a smaller distance. That is what I ment by replaced.

That's not really accurate on replacing. There are still plenty of scenarios in which you would want to use the regular one instead. The only way DACUS could be a replacement was if it would always be the better one to use, which it most certainly isn't.

 

[LancerStaff]

That's not really accurate on replacing. There are still plenty of scenarios in which you would want to use the regular one instead. The only way DACUS could be a replacement was if it would always be the better one to use, which it most certainly isn't.

A regular DUS was the only way you could slide while smashing for a while. Now it's not because the DACUS was discovered. Same deal with Wavedashing and walking short distances. They both took a big chunk out of the original moves.
I understand they didn't entirely replace the moves, otherwise I couldn't explain why Jigglypuff and Peach barely Wavedash, if at all.

 

[mimgrim]

A regular DUS was the only way you could slide while smashing for a while. Now it's not because the DACUS was discovered. Same deal with Wavedashing and walking short distances. They both took a big chunk out of the original moves.
I understand they didn't entirely replace the moves, otherwise I couldn't explain why Jigglypuff and Peach barely Wavedash, if at all.

Even without WD, walking short distances wouldn'y be a big thing in Melee. This is because of how powerful Dash Dancing is in Melee. The reason players chose to walk more in Brawl is because of tripping and how Dash Dancing was majorly nerfed in Brawl to becoming basically useless.

Dash Dancing is too powerful in Melee but is too weak in Brawl. Here's hoping for another middle ground in Smash 4. It would also be nifty if Crouch Canceling a dash would come back, that would solve you case of Smashing out of a dash with more then just Usmash.

 

[SmashChu]

Do you honestly think that? People hated brawl because of tripping, and the game being dumbed down for people who'll drop the game in a week.

Yes. Consider that this thread wouldn't exist if that was the case. There would be thread saying how amazing tech skills are. There wouldn't be this idolization of wavedashing and L-canceling. Street Fighter players dont complain that SF4 should have had parrying and it needs to return in SF5. If the problem was that Brawl was a bad game as everyone claims, why is the most popular mod among the community (and the one they claim is far better than anything Sakurai could make) one that tries to turn Brawl into Melee (even using the same attack for Melee veterans).

It's obvious to see that the community worships Melee. There has already been talk that SSB WiiU/3DS arent going to be good because they are too "Brawl-y"

 

[smashmachine]

Yes. Consider that this thread wouldn't exist if that was the case. There would be thread saying how amazing tech skills are. There wouldn't be this idolization of wavedashing and L-canceling. Street Fighter players dont complain that SF4 should have had parrying and it needs to return in SF5. If the problem was that Brawl was a bad game as everyone claims, why is the most popular mod among the community (and the one they claim is far better than anything Sakurai could make) one that tries to turn Brawl into Melee (even using the same attack for Melee veterans).

It's obvious to see that the community worships Melee. There has already been talk that SSB WiiU/3DS arent going to be good because they are too "Brawl-y"

that's because SF4 was a solid game on its own competitively, remember when 3rd Strike wasn't taken up for a few years though? or even better, KoF/Mortal Kombat not moving on for several games in a row

and we all know you're salty about the community passing over your preferred game

 

[LancerStaff]

that's because SF4 was a solid game on its own competitively, remember when 3rd Strike wasn't taken up for a few years though? or even better, KoF/Mortal Kombat not moving on for several games in a row

and we all know you're salty about the community passing over your preferred game

Stick to arguments instead of insults. There's just as many stubborn fanboys on both sides.

 

[D-idara]

I would love it if people just dashed and walked normally to approach their opponents.

 

[Jaedrik]

"I'm right you're all wrong"
Everyone on this threads.

Yes.

Come now, do not be so cynical. Altruism exists, and other intentions are both possible and probable.

I would love it if people just dashed and walked normally to approach their opponents.

Define "normal". I would argue that Wavedashing as an act is "normal".

 

[D-idara]

Come now, do not be so cynical. Altruism exists, and other intentions are both possible and probable.

Define "normal". I would argue that Wavedashing as an act is "normal".

Then you have a pretty twisted definition of 'normal'. Normal's running towards the opponent. You know, actually using the run command that the game comes with?

The thing is...these people will never accept that Melee had mistakes that need to be corrected, Brawl had mistakes too, but at least we Brawl fans admit that and don't worship it like it's perfect, because it's not...you are like the people that want another Sonic Adventure or another Super Mario 64, all you want is for the franchise to de-evolve.

 

[Eight Melodies]

How about we play our preferred game rather than argue about it

 

[Jaedrik]

Then you have a pretty twisted definition of 'normal'. Normal's running towards the opponent. You know, actually using the run command that the game comes with?

The thing is...these people will never accept that Melee had mistakes that need to be corrected, Brawl had mistakes too, but at least we Brawl fans admit that and don't worship it like it's perfect, because it's not...you are like the people that want another Sonic Adventure or another Super Mario 64, all you want is for the franchise to de-evolve.

No, you misunderstand me, I do not want an example of normal, I want it defined, or if it cannot be, characterized and qualified. The game comes with wavedashing also, that is normal, all exploits by the definition you have implied thus far are normal, as they come with the game.

I. . . would avoid using 'you' in writing. . . unless you were implying that I am such? I guarantee you that I am not like that, at least I would hope.
Also, there's a tiny huge Non Causa Pro Causa error there; time does not necessitate progress. They correlate, perhaps, but it is far from a causal relationship.

How about we play our preferred game rather than argue about it

AMEN, AMEN!
Some simply cannot accept a difference of preferences in trivial things.

 

[smashbro29]

Short version of the thread: Wavedashing is cool but how it's done and how it looks is stupid.

 

[SmashChu]

that's because SF4 was a solid game on its own competitively, remember when 3rd Strike wasn't taken up for a few years though? or even better, KoF/Mortal Kombat not moving on for several games in a row

and we all know you're salty about the community passing over your preferred game

I know with MK that the games shifted from 2D to 3D after MK 3 (I believe) so the game are entirely different. The community had no problem picking up MK9. On 3rd Strike, the community didn't try to go back to SF3. Once they moved on, they stay there. There is a transition period with any game since people will still be playing the last one as the new one comes out. Starcraft 1 was still played when Starcraft 2 was out. Eventually, the SC1 pros that were left moved on. The issue here is that the community doesn't want to move on. Once 3rd Strike was adopted, they didn't try to go back. Once SC2 was adopted, they didn't try to go back. The Smash community (the American one) doesn't want to move on. The issue is the Melee worship and the community doesn't want on. They basically took their ball and went home. The reason is because now players couldn't win based on raw tech skills and had to use zoning, spacing and map control to win (oh noez). SSB WiiU/3DS is already getting the cold shoulder by some because it's "too much like Brawl," which is code for "Not Melee." If you want a better analogy, it would be like SF fans complaining that SF4 doesn't have parries and then trying to denounce the game and it's players while trying to stay playing an 11 year old game.

 

[JediLink]

I know with MK that the games shifted from 2D to 3D after MK 3 (I believe) so the game are entirely different. The community had no problem picking up MK9. On 3rd Strike, the community didn't try to go back to SF3. Once they moved on, they stay there. There is a transition period with any game since people will still be playing the last one as the new one comes out. Starcraft 1 was still played when Starcraft 2 was out. Eventually, the SC1 pros that were left moved on. The issue here is that the community doesn't want to move on. Once 3rd Strike was adopted, they didn't try to go back. Once SC2 was adopted, they didn't try to go back. The Smash community (the American one) doesn't want to move on. The issue is the Melee worship and the community doesn't want on. They basically took their ball and went home. The reason is because now players couldn't win based on raw tech skills and had to use zoning, spacing and map control to win (oh noez). SSB WiiU/3DS is already getting the cold shoulder by some because it's "too much like Brawl," which is code for "Not Melee." If you want a better analogy, it would be like SF fans complaining that SF4 doesn't have parries and then trying to denounce the game and it's players while trying to stay playing an 11 year old game.

Uugghhh...

Let me tell you something, sir. You don't know what you're talking about. You just don't. Don't try to pretend that you do, because you just don't. And you probably never will. You hate the competitive scene for reasons I don't know, and your hate clouds your vision and distorts the truth.

The actual reason why no one wanted to move on to Brawl because this is what Brawl is.

It's is a broken mess. It was barely playtested, camping was the dominant strategy, it had dumb mechanics like tripping, the balance was downright awful, and NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with tech skill. It just wasn't a good game, period.

 

[pitthekit]

Uugghhh...

Let me tell you something, sir. You don't know what you're talking about. You just don't. Don't try to pretend that you do, because you just don't. And you probably never will. You hate the competitive scene for reasons I don't know, and your hate clouds your vision and distorts the truth.

The actual reason why no one wanted to move on to Brawl because this is what Brawl is.

It's is a broken mess. It was barely playtested, camping was the dominant strategy, it had dumb mechanics like tripping, the balance was downright awful, and NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with tech skill. It just wasn't a good game, period.

Now people are going to say brawl has more celebral skill...

If you slowed down melee by 1/2 it's speed I can guess that it would be more defensive and celebrated since more moves can easily be punished by reaction.

Due to human flaws we can really only play aggressive and use zoning and spacing if the game is very fast and very deep, as we have less time to think. Although people with good intuition can make fast reads.

This is my thoughts and I could be wrong and are subjective to conscious change.

 

[LancerStaff]

Uugghhh...

Let me tell you something, sir. You don't know what you're talking about. You just don't. Don't try to pretend that you do, because you just don't. And you probably never will. You hate the competitive scene for reasons I don't know, and your hate clouds your vision and distorts the truth.

The actual reason why no one wanted to move on to Brawl because this is what Brawl is.

It's is a broken mess. It was barely playtested, camping was the dominant strategy, it had dumb mechanics like tripping, the balance was downright awful, and NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with tech skill. It just wasn't a good game, period.

To say either game takes more skill then the other doesn't make any sense. They take different kinds of skill. Melee fans are unwilling to move on because they have Melee and PM and it's the same as it was eleven years ago. But Melee is dying again, and SSB4 could very well be the straw the broke the camel's back.

 

[Chandeelure]

Melee's mechanics are stupid and Brawl's speed is pathetic.
The solution is a "Brawl" but with balance, speed and combos. And this exactly what Sakurai is doing (or trying) with Smash 4.

Are you guys happy now?

Also , @FalKoopa ? , are you sure this thread needs to exist?
I remember that one mod said that "Melee vs Brawl threads" are not allowed, but I'm not sure.

 

[pitthekit]

To say either game takes more skill then the other doesn't make any sense. They take different kinds of skill. Melee fans are unwilling to move on because they have Melee and PM and it's the same as it was eleven years ago. But Melee is dying again, and SSB4 could very well be the straw the broke the camel's back.

Perhaps someone can take all the skills in melee (zoning, aggressive, reads, tech chase, stage control, technical abilities, advance techniques, spacing, defensive measures, mind games ect.)

While we take all the skills in brawl (zoning, oos, tech chase, stage control, di, momentum cancel, buffer, Advance techniques, item play, spacing shield poke, mind games. Etc)

And determine which game has more skills to learn or more required skill.

Factors could be speed,magnitude of skill(dash dancing is powerfully in melee, weak in brawl), depth of skill(what options does this skill add?)

Other factors I am not sure to consider is shield stun and core mechanics like hitstun,weight and characters.

We have to consider some of the unique(?) skills in ether game.

Brawls has less shield stun than melee: brawls perfect shield duration is frame 1-3 perfect shields and shield drop makes picking oos options a skill(takes good reaction)

Melee has more shield stun and has a perfect shield of 1 frame duration(I think) so you can still perfect shield and pick an oos option... Does melee perfect shield negate shield stun? By how much compared to brawl?


Question: if you had perfect frame by frame reaction, you could always perfect shield in melee and in brawl.
Does that mean that technically, melee has the same shield play as brawl.. It is just harder to do.
Note: for an option to be considered OutOfShield it has to be a move that is active frames 1-7.
Some characters in melee like g&w has had there frame data reworked in brawl making them faster and having better oos options.


I would imagine for the answer we would have to consider that melee and brawl have different characters, with different shield stun, and shield drops.


Anyone know exactly how much skills brawl and melee have in common?

 

[RODO]

You can't say that a game is "bad" when there are people who don't think that that's the case. Every smash game is solid, some better than others, but none of them are bad by any stretch of the imagination. I have fun playing all of them.

 

[LancerStaff]

Perhaps someone can take all the skills in melee (zoning, aggressive, reads, tech chase, stage control, technical abilities, advance techniques, spacing, defensive measures, mind games ect.)

While we take all the skills in brawl (zoning, oos, tech chase, stage control, di, momentum cancel, buffer, Advance techniques, item play, spacing shield poke, mind games. Etc)

And determine which game has more skills to learn or more required skill.

Factors could be speed,magnitude of skill(dash dancing is powerfully in melee, weak in brawl), depth of skill(what options does this skill add?)

Other factors I am not sure to consider is shield stun and core mechanics like hitstun,weight and characters.

We have to consider some of the unique(?) skills in ether game.

Brawls has less shield stun than melee: brawls perfect shield duration is frame 1-3 perfect shields and shield drop makes picking oos options a skill(takes good reaction)

Melee has more shield stun and has a perfect shield of 1 frame duration(I think) so you can still perfect shield and pick an oos option... Does melee perfect shield negate shield stun? By how much compared to brawl?


Question: if you had perfect frame by frame reaction, you could always perfect shield in melee and in brawl.
Does that mean that technically, melee has the same shield play as brawl.. It is just harder to do.
Note: for an option to be considered OutOfShield it has to be a move that is active frames 1-7.
Some characters in melee like g&w has had there frame data reworked in brawl making them faster and having better oos options.


I would imagine for the answer we would have to consider that melee and brawl have different characters, with different shield stun, and shield drops.


Anyone know exactly how much skills brawl and melee have in common?

Mew2king is really the only guy who could tell us which game takes more skill. But I doubt he would get stuck in the middle of the debate like that.

 

[Jaedrik]

I know with MK that the games shifted from 2D to 3D after MK 3 (I believe) so the game are entirely different. The community had no problem picking up MK9. On 3rd Strike, the community didn't try to go back to SF3. Once they moved on, they stay there. There is a transition period with any game since people will still be playing the last one as the new one comes out. Starcraft 1 was still played when Starcraft 2 was out. Eventually, the SC1 pros that were left moved on. The issue here is that the community doesn't want to move on. Once 3rd Strike was adopted, they didn't try to go back. Once SC2 was adopted, they didn't try to go back. The Smash community (the American one) doesn't want to move on. The issue is the Melee worship and the community doesn't want on. They basically took their ball and went home. The reason is because now players couldn't win based on raw tech skills and had to use zoning, spacing and map control to win (oh noez). SSB WiiU/3DS is already getting the cold shoulder by some because it's "too much like Brawl," which is code for "Not Melee." If you want a better analogy, it would be like SF fans complaining that SF4 doesn't have parries and then trying to denounce the game and it's players while trying to stay playing an 11 year old game.

Please, Chu, will you consider our perspective for one, tiny, small moment, to put aside your framing of the supposed issue and listen to what we think the issue is? Also, do not respond to this post unless you intend to respond and address it in full. You do not understand our intention, please do not assume it. I think many competitive people will agree with me when I say zoning, spacing, and stage control is vital in Melee, and they are required to win. Raw tech skill will only get one so far, and in my opinion it's the easy part, learning spacing and zoning and comboing and DI is incredibly important and takes critical thinking skills, please do not downplay the mechanics any further. This is what we assert and it has always been what we have asserted, and you have not ever, as far as I have seen, been able to comprehensively disprove our assertion, you simply claim it is untrue and go on with your perspective about how we all need to move on. Why? You seem to be saying as well that the next game in the series is always better than the preceding one, but better by what standard? Certainly not the competitive community's standards, and that's what you do not take into account.

Next, all your analogies are flawed. Did you know that Blizzard/Activision disallowed many events of SC1 after SC2 came out? It's one of the reasons I know that SC1 died, and SC1's gameplay is making a comeback in the Starbow mod, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Further, and this goes for all your other examples here, the next in the series was only marginally different in terms of mechanics, and the competitive communities of each made the estimations that they lost very little in the coming generation, and indeed gained some things, that is why they did not switch. The reason why a portion of the Smash community did not like the change is not because they're special, as all communities principally act the same as all humans principally act the same, but because the margin of change from Melee to Brawl, and the things competitivity lost therein, was so vast as to cause that portion to estimate that they would rather keep the last game than move on. If a game in the SF series or the Starcraft series came out that was so radically different, I guarantee you 100% that it would tear the competitive fanbase asunder most especially if the developer's vision interfered with their vision of what a competitive game of that series should entail. You must consider what competitivity means to us, the archetypes that flow throughout the more and less competitive games of Smash, and you must do the same with the other communities. So far, this has fortunately not happened to the other communities, but it would, your analogies are confounded, sir.

When I say that all humans act principally the same, and competitive communities are no different, I would do well to point out that you have implicitly stated that one competitive community unto another does not act similar, and in that you must say they do not have the desire to fulfill their ends through the means they employ, as 'competitive community' implies a collective goal, and the community acts towards that goal.
Funnily enough, the collective wishes of the competitive element of the community have taken manifestation in the forms of 'not Melee' only because they do not understand the archetypes that govern the differences between the games, and what makes Brawl finally and ultimately less competitive than Melee, but I guarantee you that there are many, as myself, who have reasoned through what makes Brawl exactly less so, please do not attempt to make our arguments for us and then proceed to summarily dismiss them saying we are hard-headed and worship Melee, I most certainly do not worship Melee, and I hope you would trust me when I say that, as I believe my estimation of my own intentions are greater than yours.

It is concluded in saying that this is not an issue of the community not wanting to move on, it is the issue of SmashChu not wanting to accept that the community, or part of the community that has created its own collective goal, has an end in mind that is both different, as well as their perception of the means to best achieve those ends, than his. Why he cannot accept this is beyond me, and I am not willing to assume his intentions, as he is ostensibly not part of said collective. That is my perspective, sir.

 

[StarshipGroove]

Melee is dying again

Yeah it's dying so hard that both mlg and evo want it in their game lineup, and it had 696 entrants at evo 2013.

Melee is doing great. It boggles the mind that a multiplayer game that is over ten year old is still played so much to this very day.

 

[LancerStaff]

Yeah it's dying so hard that both mlg and evo want it in their game lineup and had 696 entrants at evo 2013

Regardless, attendance is dropping, Melee players are aging, and there's a new SSB on the horizon. This could very well be Melee's last year.

 

[pitthekit]

I think the correct term is: brawl and melee are dying,
Not to pull a snive semi reversal to melee is dying.
But brawl is really dead... And melee is on the deathbed.

Ssb4 is going,to be a newborn bebe

 

[LancerStaff]

I think the correct term is: brawl and melee are dying,
Not to pull a snive semi reversal to melee is dying.
But brawl is really dead... And melee is on the deathbed.

Ssb4 is going,to be a newborn bebe

I don't think anybody'd argue that Brawl isn't dying XD.

 

[Goten21]

It doesn't necessarily take time to master moves, it takes natural skills.