stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
kay kay, I'll come over.
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The 949 Smash Thread: RIP PacWest
- Thread starter JDM
- Start date
I'm not going to pretend that I know this matchup but here's what I do (experience from playing Kyle's sheik and other more basic sheik's like McCain or Jason):
[Most important]
- KNOW how to punish out of your up and downthrow. Upthrow knee is an automatic kill at like 80%. Downthrow at low percents so you can tech chase because she can escape upthrow at low %. Downthrow knee at VERY high percent is an automatic kill. At mid percents upthrow to millions of upairs is cool. The golden rule is, if you're fast enough it will hit. Get a hit in after every up/down throw, and know which one to do when. And don't waste time with fancy combos at like 70%+ when all it takes is simple THROW to KNEE to get her off the stage and then she dies cause falcon edgeguards her easily.
[These have to do with dashdancing and spacing your approach like a pro]
- Nair if she whiffs ftilt (only if I'm looking for it... if i'm a millisecond too slow I'll run into another ftilt)
- Nair/knee/upair if I think she will jump. Move choice depends on percentage
- Shield grab after she does fair > jab on my shield.
- Shield grab/nair if she does ftilt too close to my shield
- Run around a lot and try to make her whiff a fullhop or double jump aerial so I can punish that. So use your speed to run around platforms too
[This has to do with punishing... or general stuff I guess]
- Spam upairs if she's above me. She doesn't have a good move to come down with like Falco lol. His spike is so ridiculously GOOD. I hate Falco's who jump a lot. I hate Falco. But I love playing as him. You know there's your main, and then there's the character you LOVE playing, that no matter what you always have fun using that character. For me it's Falco. If you're lucky enough to main your most fun character be thankful. But I digress.
- Do shorter combos into Knee. This is to: 1. Train her to DI up so you can later do a longer combo, and 2. Get her off the stage faster so I can...
- Edgeguard like a pro. Punish her lag with stomp to knee, or just knee at high percents (sometimes reverse knee). Golden rules of edgeguarding: 1st thing to do always is GRAB the LEDGE. 2nd thing is to STAND UP (press up lightly or towards the stage) IF (and only if) her up B explosion is going to hit you. Then your choices are Knee, Upthrow knee, or stomp knee. If her explosion won't hit you then WAIT on the ledge. She will either go at an angle where she falls to her death (assuming you're still on the ledge), or she will land on the stage. And she will land close enough so that you can ledgehop knee, reverse knee, or stomp. And then you knee. I love edgeguarding Sheik. Also when you stand up, you should do it at the last possible second. So if they try to mindgame you and do that thing where they go to the ledge anyway and grab it late, it WONT work. Trust me if you do it at the last second she can't grab the ledge no matter what so just do that. Then she has like no options at all.
hope it helps and wasnt too hard to read or understand
oh also low percents if you connect with nair try to grab after. if she's good she'll CC all your moves to grab and then tech chase you to death. also i love stomp to grab at low percent. tech chasing is hard but you'll get the hang of it as you play more. just know that if you're not gonna make it in time then don't go for it.. trick into doing something dumb after her tech then go in or read what she usually does after a tech then figure out a way to punish it. don't waste time with moonwalks. but waste time with gentlemans. gentlemen are such good shield pressure. oh yeah learn how to shield pressure well. and do up B recovery trixies like jeff. just watch what he does and copy, it's easy when you have a role model. anddd uh if she spaces ftilt perfectly then wavedash backwards out of shield. dont challenge. and dont roll like a noob. roll like a pro, the way good falcons do it.
oh you know i do haha. its kinda hard to copy though
... and psh 'dont know the matchup.' youre an encyclopedia dude. it really did help. also i was lucky enough to play with mccain and kyle last friday, and they were able to give me some solid advice as well (kyle moreso in the sheik matchup but yeah you know how it is haha)
Incronaut
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2007
- Messages
- 610
hey are you in irvine on sunday? (cause ill be in SD LOL so if youre in sd then we should hang out, if youre up here, then sadddd lolz)oh you know i do haha. its kinda hard to copy though
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
is anyone in 949 cool enough to house a car of smashers from AZ for NSH? We will be willing to give you a ride to and from the venue.
People: me, Forward, AXE, DualCats
People: me, Forward, AXE, DualCats
Incronaut
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2007
- Messages
- 610
oh aiiiiiiiiiiiiiite... i might text you to see which starbucks you work at to bother you! :D and be like "this coffee has no tech skill foo! make me another!" cause im a good friend like that...
i hung out with my classmates after the final.. i kinda knew they wanted to after our last one together for the quarter so i didnt sign up for anthonys.. next time next time
OkamiBW
Smash Champion
Yeah, I could, but there would have to be a spot open in the car.
more technical coffee?! You're gonna have to hit up my boss for something like that haha. How was finals for you though?
Mobil
Smash Rookie
if only they let Dave work on brawl...
I'm moving to NorCal next week 
bye guys
bye guys
Incronaut
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2007
- Messages
- 610
what?!!? for realz??!?! forevers?!?!?!? why??!?!! how long have you known you might leave us!?!??!I'm moving to NorCal next week
MacD
Banned via Administration
on the bright side connor, no more super evil asian PE teacher that everyone fails
hellllll yeah. looks like norcal's gonna have all the kids
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
Wait whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
Super short notice wtf
Super short notice wtf
ComboFest
Smash Lord
I didn't even play you
Boo! I still love you ConnorI'm moving to NorCal next week
"The Kid." you will be missed
ComboFest
Smash Lord
This is awesome. I always had trouble with the shiek matchup.
Do you have anything about the Falco matchup? (When i am Falcon).
im not nearly as knowledgeable as dave, so i'll leave the in-depth stuff to him :] .. in my experience, the falco match up is pretty gay haha. i think the biggest problem with most falco players is that theyre so used to stunning people with their lasers, that they attack you in your spot. as you know, this is bad, because you can easily DD away, then back and grab them. so some preliminary stuff (and dave, please correct me if im wrong):
- you MUST utilize your options out of shield OTHER than rolling:
personally, i like to WD, but doing a short hop and then FFing it works well too. the point is to be as mobile as you can, because the whole point of him lasering you is to mess up your movement. showing them that you can still move well even though their lasering the crap out of you might even make them not laser as much (especially if you powershield consistenly). rolling is bad. dont do it haha
- out-spacing falco is amazing!
like i said earlier, most falco's early in the game will instinctively attack where you are as opposed to covering options behind you or over your head. this is where your options out of shield are so important! WDing out of shield is SUUUUPER useful! i get so many grabs on falco players (even ones that are HELLA better than me) because of this. later on they'll catch on and start to space better, but you can travel so many directions out of your shield that it'll be pretty hard for them to completely catch onto your movement.
- turning a defensive position into an offensive position:
i dont really know about your style of play, but as soon as i see an opportunity to start a combo, i hella jump on it. (pretty much more options out of shield) ... if they make the mistake of dash attacking into my shield, or fsmashing randomly, i see it as a free stomp, and from there i try to keep them in the air and ultimately end in a knee. thats, of course, the best case scenario, but the main idea is taking offense away from the falco. when theyre shield pressuring, depending on where they hit your shield, and how youre angling it, you can easily stomp or grab or something, and from there just kill him haha
uhhh.. this is all i can think of right now. if i think of anything else i'll edit or re-post or something. i know i said the matchup is pretty gay earlier, but by working on these things, its starting to become one of my favorites. or space animals in general are my favorites. them and peach. so yeah! for now, try working on options out of shield, specifically ones that make it easier to take the offense away from a falco, and your spacing. from there whatever dave tells you will make you like a million times better and make me and this post look like a ***** hahah
Umm
short answer cause I'm sleeping soon
- run up, [power]shield the laser, nair to interrupt their attack. then when nair hits grab
- fulljump or double jump stomp/bair/knee when they're on the ledge cause they're gonna come up with lasers.
- roll away from good shield pressure (don't get predictable. there's a pro way and a noob way to roll). if they're still following you, roll more. lol i dunno it works for me. if you watch good falcons they just roll at safe times cause you dont have a ton of options from your shield. wavedash out of shield away from uptilts, dont challenge it from your shield. if you wavedash out of shield away from shine shield pressure time it to be immediately after the shine. eventually learn to shield grab early aerials and stomp out of shield over shines but that's more advanced. same with rolling there's a noob way to shield grab and a pro way.
- upthrow fsmash at 75%? (ish) 80% for sure. just do it
- if they get hit off the stage you can usually fly out there and hit them with weak knee then double jump up air. unless falco sits in his shine and saves his double jump he really doesnt have a lot of places to go
- you can side B under lasers
- if you're slightly late on your tech chase (ie they can act before you can grab them), they'll probably spot dodge or roll immediately upon wakeup. that's if you're just about to get them. if you're a little more than slightly late they'll probably do an attack or jump which is the smart thing to do and which they should do in the first scenario but probably wont cause they'll be more scared if you're right on top of them. if you dont do anything they might laser if they think they're safe.
- iono i just do stuff. but the matchup is fun to me, i like it
didnt read what charles said yet but it's probably cool
D
Deleted member
Guest
i can write a fuken paper on the falcon vs falco matchup
i think vs falco is falcon's best top tier matchup, the more technical you are the easier it gets to get openings and lay the pain. A **** or get ***** matchup that I personally believe the better player will win (as long as both know matchup)
The first thing you have to do in any matchup vs anybody is find a fatal flaw. For example, 95% of n00b falcos will spot dodge if you just can't make it in time for a grab while tech chasing. That's where you run up to them and knee in place. N00bs will do it everytime, good players will do it perhaps the first time but switch it up if they are getting owned. Almost everybod who plays this game has a pattern but it's really hard to pick them up if you aren't good. I can only find blatant obvious patterns or I get tricked when people are being too n00b
Most people complain about falco's lasers. Well if you are freaking aggressive falco won't have time to laser unless he wants to get punished. If a falco is short hopping and about to laser and you are close enough u can easily ****. If you are getting laser camped I don't think its too much of a big deal since a single n-air equals getting shot by 6 lasers unless his camping leads to u getting ***** by a combo
I like doing quick double jump n-airs where i fast fall it so the 2nd hit of the n-air will hit falco if hes on the ground. Great for dodging lasers and being aggressive (sorta). Falcon's body during the n-air is also squeezed as he performs the two kicks so you increase your chances of not getting shot by a laser
Agro falcos are really fun to fight. Defensive wimpy falcos are really gay if they don't suck. Smart falcos are in the middle
it's all about positioning. I do this in every matchup where I initial dash shield so I am barely off position whenever Falco comes into be offensive so he is not gunna shield pressure the center of my shield.
Rolling is super legit when Falco is doing the basic shine shine d-air shine because only like 40~ falcos in the world are capable of reading non-n00b rolls and following up easily.
i don't like side-b outside of tech chases or tricky recovery. It's ok against Falco though if Falco sucks at shooting lasers low or is shooting lasers deliberately high to mess up sh aerials.
You can **** falco with an ez combo so I never really feel behind unless its 1 stock vs 3-4 stock. All you need is one mistake to capitalize on.
If for some reason falco does a full-hop d-air I trade from below with an up-air, tech, and follow up if i up-aired them at high-mid percent. 10 damage to falco to me = 40 percent to falcon in my opinion
Use platforms to your advantage to avoid lasers and tech chase stomps. I am personally not bothered by lasers on FD though
DI FUKKEN HARD SO FALCO DOESN'T KEEP ****** U WITH COMBOS. Could mean difference between getting comboed to 40 or 0 to death
if you want to bait falco and get a free hit stand on a platform and shield with ur back towards the center and if he aerials you from the side you are not facing you will fall without tumbling and you can instantly aerial
I gentlemen a LOT in this matchup on Falco's shield after n-air to apply pressure and in general but you are at risk of getting shined if Falco crouches at low percent. I do it anyways and DI really hard
there are sooo many falco n00bs that are very easy to **** and 3-4 stock with cool combos. Once you 'figure' out the matchup you will enjoy ****** endless falco noobs left and right.
i think vs falco is falcon's best top tier matchup, the more technical you are the easier it gets to get openings and lay the pain. A **** or get ***** matchup that I personally believe the better player will win (as long as both know matchup)
The first thing you have to do in any matchup vs anybody is find a fatal flaw. For example, 95% of n00b falcos will spot dodge if you just can't make it in time for a grab while tech chasing. That's where you run up to them and knee in place. N00bs will do it everytime, good players will do it perhaps the first time but switch it up if they are getting owned. Almost everybod who plays this game has a pattern but it's really hard to pick them up if you aren't good. I can only find blatant obvious patterns or I get tricked when people are being too n00b
Most people complain about falco's lasers. Well if you are freaking aggressive falco won't have time to laser unless he wants to get punished. If a falco is short hopping and about to laser and you are close enough u can easily ****. If you are getting laser camped I don't think its too much of a big deal since a single n-air equals getting shot by 6 lasers unless his camping leads to u getting ***** by a combo
I like doing quick double jump n-airs where i fast fall it so the 2nd hit of the n-air will hit falco if hes on the ground. Great for dodging lasers and being aggressive (sorta). Falcon's body during the n-air is also squeezed as he performs the two kicks so you increase your chances of not getting shot by a laser
Agro falcos are really fun to fight. Defensive wimpy falcos are really gay if they don't suck. Smart falcos are in the middle
it's all about positioning. I do this in every matchup where I initial dash shield so I am barely off position whenever Falco comes into be offensive so he is not gunna shield pressure the center of my shield.
Rolling is super legit when Falco is doing the basic shine shine d-air shine because only like 40~ falcos in the world are capable of reading non-n00b rolls and following up easily.
i don't like side-b outside of tech chases or tricky recovery. It's ok against Falco though if Falco sucks at shooting lasers low or is shooting lasers deliberately high to mess up sh aerials.
You can **** falco with an ez combo so I never really feel behind unless its 1 stock vs 3-4 stock. All you need is one mistake to capitalize on.
If for some reason falco does a full-hop d-air I trade from below with an up-air, tech, and follow up if i up-aired them at high-mid percent. 10 damage to falco to me = 40 percent to falcon in my opinion
Use platforms to your advantage to avoid lasers and tech chase stomps. I am personally not bothered by lasers on FD though
DI FUKKEN HARD SO FALCO DOESN'T KEEP ****** U WITH COMBOS. Could mean difference between getting comboed to 40 or 0 to death
if you want to bait falco and get a free hit stand on a platform and shield with ur back towards the center and if he aerials you from the side you are not facing you will fall without tumbling and you can instantly aerial
I gentlemen a LOT in this matchup on Falco's shield after n-air to apply pressure and in general but you are at risk of getting shined if Falco crouches at low percent. I do it anyways and DI really hard
there are sooo many falco n00bs that are very easy to **** and 3-4 stock with cool combos. Once you 'figure' out the matchup you will enjoy ****** endless falco noobs left and right.
it's been like 5 weeks total, gotta give it some time
plus it's been tough for me to change my diet, not easy to get tons of healthy food and eat it regularly, at least for me. really need to eat a lot more
also i wont make it to nsh
plus it's been tough for me to change my diet, not easy to get tons of healthy food and eat it regularly, at least for me. really need to eat a lot more
also i wont make it to nsh
Little England
Smash Master
*heart sinks*
Edit- contributing to Falco vs Falcon matchup, specifically the shield game for Falco players. (I didn't understand it until after I played Johnny)
The only time you should hit Falcon's shield high is if you are DCing them. If you do it into their shield you are taking a stomp into massive damage
I. Always hit their shield in the middle or low on their shield.
A. Shine
i. I think its the best option after hitting Falcon's shield because your options are open. You can shinegrab to grab him while he's shielding (of course), double shine to stop him from grabbing you and its really safe, SHL to catch his roll, do a quick DC nair (it'll beat his stomp OoS similar to Sheik's nair OoS and his shield grab), or if he's a noob in a really defensive position ie. near the ledge wavedash away from him out of the shine and wait for a noob reaction like a roll or something.
All in all, I really don't see a reason not to shine if you have decent tech skill.
B. Utilt
i. I only do this if the Falcon likes to spam aerials OoS. Most of the time I'll turn around and hit him with the back of the nair and then shine. For some reason people who don't main Marth think they can shield grab a spaced utilt.
I'm starting to just space aerials and shoot lasers to catch his rolls and shine less. It's a good mixup thats proven to be successful so far.
wtf dave I was supposed to make goodbyes at NSH. you better visit me then...
The Greater Leon
Smash Hero
are you going away connor?
ComboFest
Smash Lord
Thanks for all the advice guys. I really appreciate it.
despite all of your information if a Falco goes to FD then am i suppost to full jump to dodge the lazors?
despite all of your information if a Falco goes to FD then am i suppost to full jump to dodge the lazors?
yeah you can do a full jump or double jump orr.. i think if you dont ff some aerials like.. uair maybe? dont bank on the last one though
1: JDM
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People going to the tournament get priority. If Connor wants to come then he gets a auto spot no matter what. I'll be playing alot more smash at this since I wanna do well on Saturday. (aka no SF)
Also I want people out by 10 so I can get some sleep and stuff.
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People going to the tournament get priority. If Connor wants to come then he gets a auto spot no matter what. I'll be playing alot more smash at this since I wanna do well on Saturday. (aka no SF)
Also I want people out by 10 so I can get some sleep and stuff.
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
me/gsub/signia
ComboFest
Smash Lord
I'm not going to NSH but if there is any more space put me in